I have found THE solution for me to have a waist harness that does not and cannot ride up. It may not fork for everyone but here goes...

I bought a cheap shorty 1.5mm - about 20 bucks, cut off the shorts part and the stiched this to the back and sides of my prolimit t type waist harness. Not attached at the front. Works as claimed. You pull these shorts on over your wetsuit (or go commando ;)) with integrated waist harness.

The only downside is the safety aspect - working on a solution to make the non quick release side release when pulling the QR tab. This can be done e.g. using a metal bent to hook the spreader bar which is kept in place under tension (dont forget a bungee to not lose it in case of release).

Lets see how long it lasts...

Lower boom.

Thats one option...other option is to get a modern fixed hook waist harness and wear it loose (& I mean really loose). The harness will naturally pull into the correct position when you put load on the harness lines, but will drop back to your hips when you are not using it. Plus loose harnesses looks cooler.

I like to hang in my harness and in the straps when coming off the plane or even before planing. I got tired from the harness at the armpits. It will end up there sooner or later no matter what you do. For this to work you need a high boom and long lines to leave the sail in front and upright.

I hear you there are other solutions of sorts. I tried this concept and completely forgot about tge harness until after the session. To me this is the sign off a good tool.

On the looks front you cannot tell that it is not simply a waist harness. Just colour match the wetsuit.

Not saying it will work for everyone but another cheap optin to try for those struggling with this issue out there.

why not just buy a seat harness with a mid to high hook position.

^ Yep, that's what I do and all the girls whistle at my tight butt. And if it wasn't for the seat harness my butt would be covered in pinch bruises.

Flying objects used to make a waist harness with a set of underpants sown in. I used to think it was to stop the brown stains showing through. now i know different.

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LeeD said..
Lower boom.

Not a help in marginal conditions wavesailing.

I love my Flying Objects Transit harness so much I dunno what I will do when its worn out. Absolutely the perfect wave seat.

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Gestalt said..
why not just buy a seat harness with a mid to high hook position.

Suppose I didnt want to go down the seat route having had these before. I prefer the feel of a (lowish) waist harness but hated the riding up factor. Does a high hook seat feel like a waist harness or does it feel like a seat harness when transferring power? My solution definitely transfers power from the waist but it stays put. The sewn in shorts only keep it drom inching up over time. Ok maybe the seat part also transfers power e.g when hanging off the boom sub planing but it does not feel that way. It was definitely cheaper than another harness.

That's why I like the Transit, its a waist harness with a nappy, not a seat with a high ish hook

Any surf seat should be similar though - ie: have a waist harness hook height

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dhat said..
I have found THE solution for me to have a waist harness that does not and cannot ride up. It may not fork for everyone but here goes...

I bought a cheap shorty 1.5mm - about 20 bucks, cut off the shorts part and the stiched this to the back and sides of my prolimit t type waist harness. Not attached at the front. Works as claimed. You pull these shorts on over your wetsuit (or go commando ;)) with integrated waist harness.

The only downside is the safety aspect - working on a solution to make the non quick release side release when pulling the QR tab. This can be done e.g. using a metal bent to hook the spreader bar which is kept in place under tension (dont forget a bungee to not lose it in case of release).

Lets see how long it lasts...

This seems like a lot of work when it is possible to buy a waist harness that does not ride up. I replaced my older, 2-point NP harness with a Mystic 4-point harness and the problem was solved. The Mystic harness could also adjust the tightness, with a knob at the back to tighten or loosen. I have used it for a couple of seasons now and it barely moves, whereas the older types ride up and choke you to death, especially after a waterstart.

Show me a guy whose waist harness doesn't ride up and I'll show you a guy with a waist.

For the rest of us, there's the old XT-Seat. Good back support and you can loosen the lower straps and tighten the top straps so that the hook sits at waist height, or do the reverse so that it rides low like a race harness. Not stylish but for some of us the stylish train left a while ago.

I got one of these from Japan. Ir was expensive and the hook height is lowish sort of mid way between a Race seat and a waist. I was not sure at first but now grown to love it and I am now finding you can wear it higher if you want. If fitted properly it does not ride up. I am sure it will not be for everybody though.

www.libertywinds.jp/english/products/harness/index.html

Mr Love you can get that exact one also done by starboard/drake

www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwindsurf.star-board.com%2Fproducts-2019%2Fdrake-harness%2F&psig=AOvVaw2sSOHkedUQ0bFBwZ5VLccF&ust=1599537349498000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAkQjhxqFwoTCMj84I6T1usCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ

much prefer the color of the japanese one though !!!

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MarkSSC said..

dhat said..
I have found THE solution for me to have a waist harness that does not and cannot ride up. It may not fork for everyone but here goes...

I bought a cheap shorty 1.5mm - about 20 bucks, cut off the shorts part and the stiched this to the back and sides of my prolimit t type waist harness. Not attached at the front. Works as claimed. You pull these shorts on over your wetsuit (or go commando ;)) with integrated waist harness.

The only downside is the safety aspect - working on a solution to make the non quick release side release when pulling the QR tab. This can be done e.g. using a metal bent to hook the spreader bar which is kept in place under tension (dont forget a bungee to not lose it in case of release).

Lets see how long it lasts...

This seems like a lot of work when it is possible to buy a waist harness that does not ride up. I replaced my older, 2-point NP harness with a Mystic 4-point harness and the problem was solved. The Mystic harness could also adjust the tightness, with a knob at the back to tighten or loosen. I have used it for a couple of seasons now and it barely moves, whereas the older types ride up and choke you to death, especially after a waterstart.

I think I will end up spending more time debating this topic than the time making it. DYI is for a certain breed of folks who enjoy finding new (and sometimes better sometimes worse) solutions.

Ill try out other solutions when the current, for me perfect, solution fails or the gear wears out. The shorts will go first - I can predict I will spend 20 for v2 before trying something else.

Don't you get a wedgie with the short?

I'm using a kidney belt style kite surfing harness with a windsurfing spreader bar. As long as the kidney belt is reasonably tight it doesn't move at all. I bought it second hand for foiling after seeing so many guys on chest and waist harnesses at the foil worlds. Suffice to say I won't be wearing my seat harness foiling anytime soon.

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jusavina said..
Don't you get a wedgie with the short?

No it is the bottom half of a wetsuit. Unlike legstraps they pull on the entire leg and hips region
. It does not really take much force. It just provides enough pull to keep the harness down.

I toyed with the idea of stiching velcro to my wetsuit and to the harness. This would also work but couldnt bring myself to stich into a above 100 eur wetsuit.

You just need something to stop the upwards creep. I notice this happens most when bending forwards or pulling the legs up. The wetsuit shorts provide most pull downwards at the back in these cases. There is no connection to the harness at the front.

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dhat said..

MarkSSC said..

dhat said..
I have found THE solution for me to have a waist harness that does not and cannot ride up. It may not fork for everyone but here goes...

I bought a cheap shorty 1.5mm - about 20 bucks, cut off the shorts part and the stiched this to the back and sides of my prolimit t type waist harness. Not attached at the front. Works as claimed. You pull these shorts on over your wetsuit (or go commando ;)) with integrated waist harness.

The only downside is the safety aspect - working on a solution to make the non quick release side release when pulling the QR tab. This can be done e.g. using a metal bent to hook the spreader bar which is kept in place under tension (dont forget a bungee to not lose it in case of release).

Lets see how long it lasts...

This seems like a lot of work when it is possible to buy a waist harness that does not ride up. I replaced my older, 2-point NP harness with a Mystic 4-point harness and the problem was solved. The Mystic harness could also adjust the tightness, with a knob at the back to tighten or loosen. I have used it for a couple of seasons now and it barely moves, whereas the older types ride up and choke you to death, especially after a waterstart.

I think I will end up spending more time debating this topic than the time making it. DYI is for a certain breed of folks who enjoy finding new (and sometimes better sometimes worse) solutions.

Ill try out other solutions when the current, for me perfect, solution fails or the gear wears out. The shorts will go first - I can predict I will spend 20 for v2 before trying something else.

This is the back of the harness I mentioned. Notice that it allows you to choose how tight it fits around your torso.
around

Harness should ride a bit up in situations where we need to crouch down while hooked in (obviously ;) ...) So the point is to not do that or get a seat harness or a harness that has more bite (wetsuits are normally quite sticky) or better fit.

However, in the majority of scenarios, our hips need to go outward, not downward. This is key to get good drive from a waist harness through our legs. It's more complicated technically for sure and can lead to back problems too.

One tip to better feel for the harness work is to push the boom away from us. This sets all the focus on driving the board with our butt and legs rather than our arms.

Anyway, the idea is to keep legs more straight, staying up on our legs with feet pointing pushing on the board, butt outward, arms relaxed, maybe even shoulders forward.

Similar position to leaning against a wall with straight front leg (drive) and sightly bent back leg (control).

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Manuel7 said..
Harness should ride a bit up in situations where we need to crouch down while hooked in (obviously ;) ...) So the point is to not do that or get a seat harness or a harness that has more bite (wetsuits are normally quite sticky) or better fit.

However, in the majority of scenarios, our hips need to go outward, not downward. This is key to get good drive from a waist harness through our legs. It's more complicated technically for sure and can lead to back problems too.

One tip to better feel for the harness work is to push the boom away from us. This sets all the focus on driving the board with our butt and legs rather than our arms.

Anyway, the idea is to keep legs more straight, staying up on our legs with feet pointing pushing on the board, butt outward, arms relaxed, maybe even shoulders forward.

Similar position to leaning against a wall with straight front leg (drive) and sightly bent back leg (control).

Thanks! I think what you are describing keeps my waist harness without the "solution" above in place quite well when underway.

What I have found myself doing the last couple of seasons is to stay in the straps in lulls when coming off the plane. Easy to pop back on when the gusts come around. I found this really helpful in very gusty conditions especially if the wind is strong. This only works if I hang with a lot of weight on the harness - quite forward ot the side if this makes sense.

In this scenario the harness rides up, and does not go down again. If I wear an impact vest it is even worse - the harness rides up in no time. I just got tired of pushing everything down, which I can only do if I undo the QR.

Manuel, do you recommend gainst this practice I am describing? In very strong and gusty conditions I now mostly go for the harness and then straps, and then onto the plane.

Yes, I often stay in the straps hooked in waiting for the next gust. It works when the wind is strong enough.

It's tempting to sit down, lower our center of gravity, etc. However if one is in the harness then there's enough wind to stay up and drive the sail power by sticking our bum out, leaving the crouching down for extreme light wind or passing over a larger wave.

The board moves forward if we push it downwind basically, weighing down on the board helps our balance but hurts its momentum.

I do need to remind myself to stiffen up sometimes, resist "sagging" and drive bum out. If at slow speeds we can leverage this technique, any time we're hooked in.

EDIT: I wear my harness over a very slidey rashguard. This let's me rotate it to the side so I get into a better position to point upwind. In theory it'd be more prone to ride up but not at all. It's also not on super tight either, just firm.

This thread has been going for a while now.
it seems only fitting that someone writes the obvious truth - namely that waist harnesses don't rise up if you are in correct sailing stance.

It doesn't actually matter if you have a waist or not - or a chubby/beer gut - what is key is that, when sailing along, your shoulders are outboard of your waist.
The pull on the harness lines should be outwards when planing in the straps.
The lines only pull upwards when you are hooked in when slogging - and that's because you are standing out of the straps and nearer the mast, making the boom effectively higher.

People who keep advocating the use of a seat harness as the solution, or some other weird idea, have yet to get their sailing stance right .
(And they usually get annoyed when they are told this, but it's true. )

Might be time to Re read the thread basher.

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Basher said..
This thread has been going for a while now.
it seems only fitting that someone writes the obvious truth - namely that waist harnesses don't rise up if you are in correct sailing stance.

It doesn't actually matter if you have a waist or not - or a chubby/beer gut - what is key is that, when sailing along, your shoulders are outboard of your waist.
The pull on the harness lines should be outwards when planing in the straps.
The lines only pull upwards when you are hooked in when slogging - and that's because you are standing out of the straps and nearer the mast, making the boom effectively higher.

People who keep advocating the use of a seat harness as the solution, or some other weird idea, have yet to get their sailing stance right .
(And they usually get annoyed when they are told this, but it's true. )

All good if you don't spent any time schlogging ( ) or don't want to load downwards just a bit when the wind drops heading out thru the break etc etc.
My enjoyment of sailing went thru the roof when I changed to a waist harness with leggy bits. Less time dropping off the plane in gusty bits, getting upwind more, less fatiguing, and the one time you jussstttttt stay planing when that hollow bomb is coming at you might save you $1000 rig or a swim etc

The only thing a waist harness is for, is to get the hook high for wavesailing. If you can achieve that in a seat thing, why not? I thought it would restrict leg movement in some moves, but it doesn't really

Agree again mark.

I use both. Medium hook seat in light winds and waist in stringer winds.

How high is what you call a medium and/or high hook?

At my surf spot (not really local, but I guess where I surf most) most people look like they have the hook quite high. Mine sits right on the navel and it stays there the entire session. I guess this is medium. Could be interesting to have a low hook alternative for light(er) wind days which are about 50% of my sailing.

In the past I have had the tendency to rigg too small (I'm 98kg). A better choice of sails definitely helped with harness issues due to better stance. I now ignore what others are rigging as an initial guide - just look at the water.

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dhat said..

Manuel7 said..
Harness should ride a bit up in situations where we need to crouch down while hooked in (obviously ;) ...) So the point is to not do that or get a seat harness or a harness that has more bite (wetsuits are normally quite sticky) or better fit.

However, in the majority of scenarios, our hips need to go outward, not downward. This is key to get good drive from a waist harness through our legs. It's more complicated technically for sure and can lead to back problems too.

One tip to better feel for the harness work is to push the boom away from us. This sets all the focus on driving the board with our butt and legs rather than our arms.

Anyway, the idea is to keep legs more straight, staying up on our legs with feet pointing pushing on the board, butt outward, arms relaxed, maybe even shoulders forward.

Similar position to leaning against a wall with straight front leg (drive) and sightly bent back leg (control).

T....

In this scenario the harness rides up, and does not go down again. If I wear an impact vest it is even worse - the harness rides up in no time. I just got tired of pushing everything down, which I can only do if I undo the QR.
...

My waist harness only rides up if end up slogging ... but an impact vest actually solves the problem completely. I have the NP side zip www.amazon.com/NP-Surf-Rise-Side-Impact/dp/B00HLAMPGO and it makes it basically impossible for the harness to ride up. Unfortunately I rarely wear it ...

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MarkSSC said..

dhat said..

MarkSSC said..

dhat said..
I have found THE solution for me to have a waist harness that does not and cannot ride up. It may not fork for everyone but here goes...

I bought a cheap shorty 1.5mm - about 20 bucks, cut off the shorts part and the stiched this to the back and sides of my prolimit t type waist harness. Not attached at the front. Works as claimed. You pull these shorts on over your wetsuit (or go commando ;)) with integrated waist harness.

The only downside is the safety aspect - working on a solution to make the non quick release side release when pulling the QR tab. This can be done e.g. using a metal bent to hook the spreader bar which is kept in place under tension (dont forget a bungee to not lose it in case of release).

Lets see how long it lasts...

This seems like a lot of work when it is possible to buy a waist harness that does not ride up. I replaced my older, 2-point NP harness with a Mystic 4-point harness and the problem was solved. The Mystic harness could also adjust the tightness, with a knob at the back to tighten or loosen. I have used it for a couple of seasons now and it barely moves, whereas the older types ride up and choke you to death, especially after a waterstart.

I think I will end up spending more time debating this topic than the time making it. DYI is for a certain breed of folks who enjoy finding new (and sometimes better sometimes worse) solutions.

Ill try out other solutions when the current, for me perfect, solution fails or the gear wears out. The shorts will go first - I can predict I will spend 20 for v2 before trying something else.

This is the back of the harness I mentioned. Notice that it allows you to choose how tight it fits around your torso.
around

That does not seem to be any longer in production, they only have the seat version. But I doubt that a BOA adjustment would solve the problem, it is just a different way to provide a secondary tightening of the harness ... it will still ride up ...

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dhat said..
How high is what you call a medium and/or high hook?

At my surf spot (not really local, but I guess where I surf most) most people look like they have the hook quite high. Mine sits right on the navel and it stays there the entire session. I guess this is medium. Could be interesting to have a low hook alternative for light(er) wind days which are about 50% of my sailing.

In the past I have had the tendency to rigg too small (I'm 98kg). A better choice of sails definitely helped with harness issues due to better stance. I now ignore what others are rigging as an initial guide - just look at the water.

Again why I love the Transit harness from FO. Its a waist hook position, but tighten the leg straps and the one that retains the hook can pull it down lower and make it almost like a seat harness for the B&J or marginal days. And now they don't make it anymore