This place is so lame when the Grumpy Old Men take over to shout somebody down.

Of course, windsurfing was perfected in 1996 and any thought that it could be improved is considered an insult.

Hydrofoiling on a windsurfer needs to take a few ideas from the moths regarding keeping a constant height.

The question you should be asking is how do moths keep their up/down stability, and then apply that to other craft..

powersloshin said...
were we all so responsible, hard working, organized as we expect them to be now?

I can't speak for everyone else, but - yep I was!

cmrls23 said...

hey guys,

I'm studying engineering at uni and trying to come up with a final year project to do.
I'm kind of keen to make a hydrofoil board (like in the link) for surfing or maybe kiting but I can't really just make it - I need a purpose or aim for it.
Anyone have any ideas??
Basically Im trying to find a way I can go surfing or kiting for uni

Cheers

What about simply trying to make one cheap and/or faster than a current board (which, I understand, the current ones are not). Isn't that enough of a purpose?

The Moth sailors have developed very sophisticated foils and control systems. Those involved include Formula 1 racecar engineers, the builders of multi-million dollar America's Cup yachts and others, so it's incredibly unlikely that you will do better at creating a system like theirs. However, the Mothies I know can't work out how you would get such a system to work on a board because someone on a board can't create the same leverage power and advantages as someone on a Moth wing. If you could work that out, you could be creating something very interesting.

By the way, rule 1 in sailing is that someone else has thought of it before! For some reason the vast majority of people involved in trying to develop stuff think that they are incomparably better than everyone else and therefore they assume that no one else has come up with the same idea earlier.

While this doesn't mean that people shouldn't try new stuff, it does mean that they should do some research so they know what has been done, what has failed in the past, and why it has failed.

king of the point said...
Noted your from SA (How is Curt Tippit)
Got a story

Back in the olden days 1988 -1990s a uni student did this project.
Cut loose surfboards Rod, Wessel, Shane Oc made a windsurfboard, with all the specifications the student had engineered ,which obviously included all the mounting points for the hydrofoils, which he designed and had made up.
I remember a fair bit of buzz surrounded the project at the time.

I did see the foils which were very expensive relative to a uni students budget etc etc spectacular to.

No one had even thought of such a thing before this

As i can remember one of the early test day was at Goowla lakes(shallow water) you know down the river mouth way .Things briefly went to plan before one of the hydrofoils struck the bottom and was lost in the muddy water .

Project foiled

Just a minor note, but people HAD thought of foiling windsurfers long before. Boards were foiling back in the early '80s, perhaps even late '70s.

See if you can make it stable so it is actually fast, as you can see from the last few seconds of the video, this looks cool, but isn't really that fast compared to the other sailor.

powersloshin said...
were we all so responsible, hard working, organized as we expect them to be now?

I can't speak for other people but I had no choice... in my first year physics we had 175 students. Prof walked in and his first word was "at the end of this course in 12 months we have 50 spots that can move on to the third semester. You do the math.". The next 12 months were brutal to say the least.

It did prepared me for the real world though. It's called competing against everyone else in a bell curve. That's essentially how every single corporation works and how they make redundancy decisions.

The other thing I learned was if you want to go sailing while at uni pick the easy subjects over the summer months and leave the hard ones for winter.

depends on how you define social networking.....chat rooms? Been around long before facebook.....Myspace.....around long before Facebook....there have been many. Even forums for that matter....they existed long before Facebook. Going to a chamber of commerce evening with other small business owners is a form of social networking!!
I would have thought an engineer would be more creative....my impression is that they tend to look at things and ask themselves how that thing could be improved. They aren't all nescessarily out to re-invent the wheel. Paul Cockburn who is a part-time journalist who has written for Wheels and Motor magazines is also an industrial designer/engineer. He invented the Dolphin torch. He saw a market for something that wasn't being serviced so he went out and designed and built a product that did! I'm pretty sure he didn't need Facebook to do that.
I understand where you are coming from and what you are trying to achieve and I personally apologise if my immature comments upset you. I guess us 'old fogeys' think you may be trying to get a bit of a free ride when we have spent most of our lives working hard. We want to see our kids be a bit more self sufficient and act for themselves rather than hoping that others around will do it for them. I ride my kids hard because unfortunately they are lazy and think either myself or my wife will eventually clean their room, do their washing etc etc and you know what, we have been guilty of letting them believe that will probably happen. But there will come a time when they have to stand on their own 2 feet and be responsible for their own actions and decisions and choices. And then, they are going to have a sense of self worth, much like I am sure you would if you can come up with your own idea. Maybe you can come up with some and THEN ask the forum here which ones we think are valid, rather than asking US to come up with the ideas for you.

barn said...
This place is so lame when the Grumpy Old Men take over to shout somebody down.

+1

...
Hydrofoiling on a windsurfer needs to take a few ideas from the moths regarding keeping a constant height.

The question you should be asking is how do moths keep their up/down stability, and then apply that to other craft..

I don't think windsurfing hydrofoils have a problem with up/down stability. They are trimmed with fore/aft weight distribution. Using a trimming wand on a windsurfer is like putting an outrigger on it for lateral balance i.e. inappropriate complication.
Of course if it enabled higher speeds it may be useful.

What about doing one of those disabled waterski foil things and instead of one big foil do say six small ones and have a deck with a bit of rocker and a bottom like a curved vee type like a spoon style knee board so the rider can lean into turns and have control. Use it for disabled kite surfers or something like that.
Oh yea the deck would have to have a fair bit of volume like 50-60lt I would reckon.
How dose that sound?

I know!

Why don't we all have a big argument about nothing?!

You could come up with a hydrofoil control system.

edition.cnn.com/videos

This video shows Don Montague on a catamaran where there is a lever operated by the waves which is mounted on the nose of the hull and operates the angle of the hydrofoil to adjust for the wave. The wave is not just at the surface but continues all the way to the seabed as a gradually smaller wave.

What you could do is have some sort of control based on letting air to the surface of the foil based on the depth of the foil in the water. A kind of self-regulation. When the foil gets too near the surface, air passes down it to reduce the lift.

cmrls23 said...

Mark _australia said...

Taking a product and looking at how it can be improved - that was exactly the point of my post. Research "problems or limitations of hydrofoils".... and then pick a problem / limitation then try to solve it!!!
There is your project idea, all done without asking us.

Market research is a flawed anology as it is about asking people what they want so you can make money.
A uni project however is different- it is about your ideas, your initiative and your creativity and displaying engineering concepts that you learnt and is assessable. That is why I take issue with asking here.

Maybe some of us were a bit cruel - we jumped the gun a bit because we are sick of highschool kids trying to cruise thru an assignment by having us do it for them. Your post is NOT up to that level, but I still think it is a little lazy. If you came along and said "here are the main 15 issues I identified, which is the biggest problem and then I will go solve it" that would be fine.
You didn't.

how many high school kids are trying to get you to do assignments? not enough to be that sick of it I bet. searched 'school' 'project' and 'assignment' and didn't a single one. if a high school kid is posting on a forum to get help with an assignment odds are he is being the opposite of lazy, and doing extra research. I didn't ask "here are the main 15 issues I identified, which is the biggest problem and then I will go solve it" because don't know if thats what I wanted. all im trying to do is get a headstart on picking an project and a feeling for what people think about hydrofoils. maybe i didn't word my question quite right, so shoot me. but it was just an offhand thought to see what the windsurf community would have to offer.
if that annoys you then fck off and go piss and moan on a different topic - no one is forcing you to read it, let alone write an essay for me.

Wow

You say "please help me".
and within 22 posts you are up to "fck off and go piss and moan on a different topic ".
How delightful.

barn said...
I came up with this..

I'll buy two. But only if it comes in those colours!

barn said...

doggie said...
What about doing one of those disabled waterski foil things and instead of one big foil do say six small ones and have a deck with a bit of rocker and a bottom like a curved vee type like a spoon style knee board so the rider can lean into turns and have control. Use it for disabled kite surfers or something like that.
Oh yea the deck would have to have a fair bit of volume like 50-60lt I would reckon.
How dose that sound?

SIX?


I came up with this..

Thats gold

And close to what I was thinking, but not in those colours

sausage said...
or when some young whipper snapper blasphemes against our God Robby

PS - Barn, I expected an MS paint diagram with your post.

I also agree with this Barn.