Francone said..
I am picking up from a now closed thread . Just a few thoughts.
Yes, regretfully windsurfing is in full decline. I still keep on, at 78, but I am most of the time the only one on the water..People look at me like an oddity..Yesterday a young mom was walking her kid by the beach and said" Wow, my kid was really impressed with you.." Maybe SHE was impressed because of my age, but the kid had probably never seen a windsurfer before. A sign of the times..

True, all things human wax and wane and windsurfing could not be expected to be the exception...

It was perhaps inevitable that kitesurfing would marginalize and, to an extent, replace windsurfing, at least traditional windsurfing.

I also think, though, that the windsurfing industry has contributed to this, because it has changed its original vocation of a leisurely, affordable, family-oriented, perhaps romantic activity, centered on the enjoyment of nature, into a high-tech,( therefore expensive) speed- and- adrenaline, almost extreme, sport.

Its hyperbole-filled, marketing savvy has succeeded in creating a lucrative venue by catering to a trendy, young population of nimble contortionists and. acrobats, who fearlessly tackle two-storeys high ocean waves or foil 1 m. above the water.

These young windsurfers ( or windsurfers-to-be-) now have come to associate anything other than planing, wave-riding, foiling and speed with. grandpa and..stay away from it.

The lesser revenues for the manufacturers, caused by the dwindling number of traditional windsurfers have in part been compensated by the new windsurfing trend and the high-tech expensive equipment that goes with it.

The profits from a $ 1500 carbon foil on a $ 2000 foiling board my well make up for each lost customer of the previous ( cheaper) windsurfing era, but there should be a place for both. This is not the case.

Many who don't go for the new style of windsurfing, would get onboard, if only they could find moderately priced beginners' equipment, but it is not easy. Even the good old Bic Windsup I have, one of the best and cheaper beginner boards, for its width, stability and sturdyness, now sells for about $ 1000 USD and is not the latest technology.

In only a few years, its price has almost doubled, If you, like me, loathe the flimsy, wobbly, planing-only shortboards and want to sail, for example, on a Kona longboard, it is close to $ 2000. And what about the sails? Some sell for close to $ 1500.. Every manufacturer tries to justify these prices by a grandiloquent marketing ploy which portrays them as if they had reinvented the wheel ..

I am not a beginner. I have been windsurfing for more than twenty years, but I still use a NP 6.2 Garda sail from the 90's..It is perfectly OK with me..I have tried more recent sails, but honestly , I can't see the difference..I am sure if you gave me a $ 1500 sail I wouldn't see the difference either..

There must be one, but it is probably noticeable only in the extreme conditions of racing and competition. Yet, if you want to buy a sail, beginner or not, you have to pay $ 1000 or more.If you can't afford, you stay away or buy a $ 500 kayak.

Certainly, materials have dramatically improved, but, for God's sake, a sail is a sail! Why should they be so darn expensive? Sure, manufacturers have to recover thousands of $$$ invested in R&D for sails and other equipment.

Perhaps this huge outlay of money for R&D was not necessary for sails and we pay the price.The number of features that can be changed or improved in a sail, is after all limited, as sailing is based on the laws of physics, which have been known and applied to navigation for centuries, sometimes intuitively, since antiquity..

Manufacturers make money also and above all by creating or changing perceptions..Nothing wrong with it. Business is business. What is more questionable and deplorable is the lack of discrimination of so many buyers, who believe in the reinvention of the wheel and are willing to pay sometimes disproportionate prices for windsurfing gear and lifestyles, simply because they are.. trendy, " cool" , fashionable and set them apart from the oldtimers and their lifestyles. Perhaps old windsurfing will come back one day, , one hopes, once kitesurfing reaches its zenith..And it will, probably faster than windsurfing, because the sheer number of kitesurfers on a given spot in a windy day is making it a dangerous sport .It also takes almost an airfield to rig and deploy them..

Francone

kato said..
If windsurfing stayed as a OD we would have missed out on all the great improvements. I thought I'd list them but there's just too many.
Good luck to all who enjoy the crap sail and heavy board but I'll stick to the modern gear and having fun. Yes I run with a F&$king big trailer but it has all my toys for the beach and I never miss out cos something's left at home. No wind to lots and yes it does cost $$ but what doesn't and you can play all day. Some of my stuff is 10 yrs old and in today's $ a 3.5k board that's lasted gets me $350 per yr enjoyment. Hate to think what it's per km
Perhaps the death of our sport is due to the pursuit of attracting youth to the sport. Don't drive, have money or the time to drop everything to sail. The beauty of our sport is that there is no timetable of when you can play. Just add wind.
Basketball , footy netball etc all have set times and seasons and you retire in your 30/40s.Perhaps that's our market, not youth and not triangle racing on old crap. OD kills innovation, remember the quick cat or the moth yachts ? What survived and why is sailing still in decline?

I'll just stick to having fun and sailing on my own.....it's COVID safe too

kato said..






What's the thread about again ? Arrr well another post not to look at as it's going in circles

cammd said..
Francone I don't know what your talking about, windsurfing gear is not expensive, the bike shop over the roads from me has 12k bikes in the window to give you a comparison, how much is a pair of footy boots now and a ball, must be into the hundreds at least, as a sailing sport windsurfing is the cheapest.

stehsegler said..




Not a particularly good example. There are plenty of $400 dollar bikes that will suit 95% of people. Last soccer ball I bought for my kids was an official FiFa ball for $39.95 on sale. Soccer boots can be had for less than $100 unless you want the latest Ronaldo kicks.

I have had the discussion around price with a few brands. I don't think it's easy for them to find the right price point. It would be great to see a brand like Severne or Starboard to come out with a new sub-brand specifically targeting the casual / beginners market. A bit like what Sunova did with the Suns brand.

The European market, which is by far the biggest windsurf market, does have some direct to market consumer brands such as Gun Sails. Their end of season sales provide sails at a costwhich isfairly reasonable.

That said on the premium end I think brands such as Fanatic have lost the plot a bit when they are selling boards for 3,200 Euro. I think if you have the skill set to buy a board at that level you are better served getting a custom board from someone like KeithTeboul. I have the strong suspicion that the majority of people that buy those boards do so as a status symbol rather then for performance or durability.

Is windsurfing still in decline? Pretty much all trends sport go through a peak period then tapper off. You get the initial excitement were everyone thinks they need one. How many people bought a SUP that's now sitting in the garage never to be used again. I think windsurfing has stabilised. I have seen a few people coming back from kiting or even having started with kiting and then switching to windsurfing.

cammd said..
Francone I don't know what your talking about, windsurfing gear is not expensive, the bike shop over the roads from me has 12k bikes in the window to give you a comparison, how much is a pair of footy boots now and a ball, must be into the hundreds at least, as a sailing sport windsurfing is the cheapest. A $1500 windsurf sail is cheap compared to dinghy sails and the tech is far more advanced and they last longer in a competitive sense. The traditional dacron sails are "blown out" after one regatta in many classes, sure they are still good for training but have lost that competitive edge.

Maybe you don't want to race or compete and thats fine but many do and we wear gear out, there is no way a sail from the 90's is going to see a season out of racing every week. Wearing gear out is a good thing as well, it means its getting used. The other side of competitioon is the community that gets built up around it, not just locally but nationally and internationally as well

Windsurfing has always been a tech sport as well, right from the start windsurfers have been innovating looking for more performance and improvements and not just the manufacturer's but ther sailors themselves, look at the old photos of guys in waves on custom boards they built themselves or altering the rocker line on old WOD's by heating them in the sun for example.

Windsurfing is a innovative sport, its always been at the cutting edge of sailing tech, that is the windsurfing tradition.

Francone said..


Still,and here is my point, even by these sacrosanct laws, manufacturers would still thrive and more people would be encouraged to get into windsurfing if the profit didn't make such a substantial part of the selling price.or the costs were not inflated by an indiscriminate race towards technology, which not everybody really needs, but which , in the end, everybody, beginner or not, must pay for.

Some windsurfing gear is made overseas, in China, Thailand, Vietnam or other cheap labor places. A sail that probably cost only a few dollars in Asia is now sold in the affluent western markets for $ 1000 or more .
Hard to believe that the manufacturer could not sell it for substantially less, ..say $500 or even less, and still recover his costs ( R&D and other) in addition to making a healthy profit, far from the 1000% margin it actually made by having it subcontracted to an Asian laborer....

Moving away from sheer greed, under the complacent banner of the free market and its law of offer and demand, is only a part of what the windsurfing industry could an should have done to keep windsurfing alive and ..didn't do.

I really wonder how much the cost of carbon and the wage of the Asian laborer account for in the price of a carbon foil made in China or Vietnam and sold in the western markets for $ 1500 by Starboard or other leading manufacturers.

Francone

gorgesailor said..







First of all respect for still being passionate about this sport we all love! ... Secondly, For someone who has lived so long, you are incredibly ignorant of the realities of business. In fact the profit margins for windsurfing gear are incredibly small & shrinking year by year. The real money in Windsurfing was made back in the heyday of the 80's & 90's when everything was so "simple" & "inexpensive". Though gear was cheaper "back in the day" profits were actually much higher. The fact is, basic inflation as well as the ever increasing skill & Technology required to produce modern gear has caused prices to rise. Your 1,000% margin is actually more like 30% from distributor to dealer then another 30% to the retailer which leaves precious little for the shop to make any money. Your $1,000 sail may have cost the distributor nearly $400 even with "Cheap" Asian labor. The materials are not cheap & the factories that make boards, sails, masts, booms etc are very specialized with highly skilled labor force. The fact is the few remaining Windsurfing companies are run by individuals & teams who Love Windsurfing, they are passionate about it... If they weren't, they would be doing something more profitable.

MatStirl said..







Suggest we get our points across without unnecessarily taking at dig at someone who is older and probably wiser than most of us.

gorgesailor said..




I apologize. I will re-word it - I only intended to educate... But - his comment is so far removed from reality - a reality that is my life & that of my associates in the industry. I take it quite personally that anyone could think we are fleecing the public for some huge profits is not only laughable but offensive.

cammd said..




The Techno 293OD is the closest thing to a universal beginner/race board, the class is established on every continent and has massive participation etc etc etc.

Your arguement for having one universal beginner/race board is shot down down by itself by arguing for a new board that would dilute the already established one.

Personally I think each class/board should live or die on its merits, let sailors decide what they want to sail.