I think cobra can build high quality in quantity but brands ask best they can do for less money that's all, buisness. I bet brands pay board to cobra less than price a small shaper pay for materials (it's like that for surfboards). For sure a custom shaper can build a far better board (i speak construction not shape) than what brands ask to cobra but in small quantity without all the commercial work for sell.
Duotone is the new commercial way, after multiply brands to speak individuality (end 90's society), boards and more group (proprietary holding) now move to build a community under one same duotone label. You want to be a cool guy ? Come in the community, you will simply find everything you need even what to think!
Same for politics.
Well I'm clearly not in their demographic or world.. lol.
on the duotone website it actually says that their custom boards achieve better strength to weight ratio than generic construction. to that point they took their custom stuff away from cobra and built a new factory. Says it all.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
Well I'm clearly not in their demographic or world.. lol.
on the duotone website it actually says that their custom boards achieve better strength to weight ratio than generic construction. to that point they took their custom stuff away from cobra and built a new factory. Says it all.
Not every decision to move manufacturing is about QC. We all know all the boards that flow through the facility in Thailand.
Cobra would be a third party in the mix wanting to make their own mark up so it could be a P&L issue. The Duotone business unit might have reasoned to bring production in-house to control exclusive this or that they've discovered or simply to have greater control over the timing of output so they can tinker away on their own terms. There could have been an unacceptable breach of tech between brands, bla bla bla.
I recently rode some recent Cobra custom proto wave boards and the construction felt like the ducks guts underfoot.
From what I understand the proto / team rider boards from cobra are cnc milled so would fit what duotone refer to as semi custom. They only use this for small runs.
all other boards are molded. Sometimes 2 molds are used.. one for the foam and one for after the laminate. this is done to reduce costs. So in a nutshell all the boards being mass produced by cobra are molded and that process impacts strength to weigh ratio.
sounds like you may have got the lighter custom version which are pro models.
The thing about using a third party fabricator is you are kinda locked into their way of producing products. can't say I really know why duotone started their own thing however ai says it was so they could explore advanced construction techniques and technologies..
From ai..
Duotone started their own factory to gain complete control over product quality, R&D, and manufacturing technology, specifically to maintain high standards and pioneer new, innovative materials like
SLS (Strong Light Superior) and D/LAB. By moving to their own production facilities, the brand, under the Boards & More group, aimed to:
Ensure Quality Control: By controlling the entire process, they guarantee that every product meets their strict, high-end standards.
Accelerate Innovation: Owning the factory allows them to rapidly implement new ideas, such as specialized materials, that cannot be done with third-party manufacturers.
Maintain Sustainability Standards: They can directly manage the implementation of eco-friendly materials and reduce their environmental impact through their "Concept Blue" initiative.
Develop Proprietary Techniques: The factory specializes in specific, advanced techniques needed for creating high-performance gear, such as specialized layup techniques, which the brand argues requires up to 30% more work.
Me again.. as a side note. Having seen some boards here and there being repaired that came from cobra it's usually dry spots and excess bog I see. Sometimes it's layup but there has been some very public comments from starboard about materials being blamed when it was construction issues.
With their one label and growing community, direct sale increase, they probably find to do more profit with their own production factory. They cut some in between guys and gain flexibility. They improve their buisness but they need volume so an agressive commercial way.
Select to expand quotelemat said..
With their one label and growing community, direct sale increase, they probably find to do more profit with their own production factory. They cut some in between guys and gain flexibility. They improve their buisness but they need volume so an agressive commercial way.
Definitely more profit for them.. that's a good thing if it allows them to do things better.
if I was in Europe I'd just get flikka boards. cheaper than duotone, custom and clearly fantastic designs. I've bought some of their fins and really like them.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..lemat said..
With their one label and growing community, direct sale increase, they probably find to do more profit with their own production factory. They cut some in between guys and gain flexibility. They improve their buisness but they need volume so an agressive commercial way.
Definitely more profit for them.. that's a good thing if it allows them to do things better.
if I was in Europe I'd just get flikka boards. cheaper than duotone, custom and clearly fantastic designs. I've bought some of their fins and really like them.
And many others, puls, mojo, rico composites, pc2, cs boards, bubblecustomboards etc... many custom board builder cheaper than normal shop prices. But nobody pay normal prices always discount. Guys want to pay brand that well scored in review...paid by brand 
Select to expand quotelemat said..Gestalt said..lemat said..
With their one label and growing community, direct sale increase, they probably find to do more profit with their own production factory. They cut some in between guys and gain flexibility. They improve their buisness but they need volume so an agressive commercial way.
Definitely more profit for them.. that's a good thing if it allows them to do things better.
if I was in Europe I'd just get flikka boards. cheaper than duotone, custom and clearly fantastic designs. I've bought some of their fins and really like them.
And many others, puls, mojo, rico composites, pc2, cs boards, bubblecustomboards etc... many custom board builder cheaper than normal shop prices. But nobody pay normal prices always discount. Guys want to pay brand that well scored in review...paid by brand
Enjoyed the links.. thx.
Tw custom has posted a video on his Facebook account showing how he removes foam from existing boards to reduce weight. With some data to back it up. Quasi air inside.. think he only does this during a board repair??
I thought about doing it in large area from mast track to nose then realised it is a massive fk around to lose maybe 100g. That then requires some filler if the pvc bags down unevenly (almost certain) so I discounted the idea quite quickly.
removing from inside a finished board sounds better
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
I thought about doing it in large area from mast track to nose then realised it is a massive fk around to lose maybe 100g. That then requires some filler if the pvc bags down unevenly (almost certain) so I discounted the idea quite quickly.
removing from inside a finished board sounds better
Agree id worry about the bagging.. I've seen boards where the EPS foam gets holes drilled through with a circle saw however those had strip planks and were wood boards.
Hollow boards come back. See more and more hollow wood DIY board here. And now Cobra offer hollow build so all "good" brands add hollow boards to their catalogs mostly for big sup and bigger foil boards. Need good waterproofing check. Personaly i still like more bet on foam to stay above water since i see the Salomon blue board of my friend going mid water after a powerful wave impact while we surf outside.
Select to expand quotelemat said..
Hollow boards come back. See more and more hollow wood DIY board here. And now Cobra offer hollow build so all "good" brands add hollow boards to their catalogs mostly for big sup and bigger foil boards. Need good waterproofing check. Personaly i still like more bet on foam to stay above water since i see the Salomon blue board of my friend going mid water after a powerful wave impact while we surf outside.
Yeah if punctured hollow boards loose flotation. But sealed removing foam just removes weight as the air which provides the volume doesn't change much.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..lemat said..
Hollow boards come back. See more and more hollow wood DIY board here. And now Cobra offer hollow build so all "good" brands add hollow boards to their catalogs mostly for big sup and bigger foil boards. Need good waterproofing check. Personaly i still like more bet on foam to stay above water since i see the Salomon blue board of my friend going mid water after a powerful wave impact while we surf outside.
Yeah if punctured hollow boards loose flotation. But sealed removing foam just removes weight as the air which provides the volume doesn't change much.
For sure. If well made, with care, hollow board could be really good. At lake i windsurf there is guys with an old airinside board, he say he have a cup of water in each session, never find intake, not a real problem, he open the plug and let water go out like guys with hollow D2. Sometimes i think to build my next hybrid board like hollow wood but with foam with fiber panels. Then i think to my friend with is Salomon...
Select to expand quotejn1 said..
Interesting harness design. It looks like a waist harness, but is positioned on the bum ?
To be honest... modern low profile seat harnesses can already be ridden as soft waist harnesses if needed either with the leg straps undone or very loose to prevent it from riding up. Maybe not for kitesurfing because they are a bit too soft but for windsurfing it'd definetly work just fine.
Sorry, I'm still struggling with what this lot do.
resetting other people's designs, in some cases to become another already known design and call it their own ingenuity, in other cases to dodgy something up for a perceived benefit?
Thats all I'm seeing on their blank website.
I would like to boards go away from EPS which sucks water to closed cell foam.
Hollow boards have a place for race boards.
Been more into winging and a few companies have closed cell foam such as Appletree and PPC.
Talking to a PPC board rider that their hollow race wing boards have a bulkhead, so they don't sink!
Also seen some home builds using Extruded polystyrene, and on the topic of "gassing" reply comment is that pin holes are your friend.
Select to expand quote515 said..
I would like to boards go away from EPS which sucks water to closed cell foam.
Hollow boards have a place for race boards.
Been more into winging and a few companies have closed cell foam such as Appletree and PPC.
Talking to a PPC board rider that their hollow race wing boards have a bulkhead, so they don't sink!
Also seen some home builds using Extruded polystyrene, and on the topic of "gassing" reply comment is that pin holes are your friend.
Some of the shapers I know are pointing to a full hd foam wrap as the waterproof layer as most damage doesn't puncture the laminate core. the xps issue is the weight.. maybe removing foam could help but I'd imagine to do this each void would need to connect to the next void so air could move around or you get pockets that expand differently..
I had some Issues with balsa which I put down to pockets of air expanding. fortunately it happened prior to final glassing schedule so I could fix the issues when they happened. but it made the timeframes longer on the build.
regards weight.. have built boards with 24kg/m3 eps which is similar to the 28kg/m3 xps. I didn't use a laminate on those builds because it was similar density to mal surfboards and old school windsurfing boards. That works pretty well and was much cheaper and easier to build.. so basically the higher density foam does the job with normal 2x 6oz or 3x glassing schedule over
I use some xps here and there but except specific "large cells" use by DIY airplane build Rutan style (very difficult to find) standard xps fibe cells for home build have poor adhesion with resin so "delam" easily. Those xps wing boards start delam under impact. When start it's grow quickly. Xtr pinholes process purpose is to stop delam growing. In fact it's not a real "delam" but cells under skin that separate, so with enough skin stiffness it's solid but quickly heavy.
Keep search.
Footstrap plugs getting evolution. Will use these on my next build because it ditches the silly screw issues. First photo from sanded. not sure how the Flikka ones work in the second image.. does anyone know.. are they held in by the sandwich?
