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Magic Ride said..
That Sparky Cat, I tell ya, I think he's obsessing over me again. Crazy feline!! Now make yourself useful, and Chase some mice.

I should have some medical experience working in a hospital with patients, and advancing my career in Physical Therapy school, but can the little cat even process that.

As I read through the posts, enjoying the source of knowledge and some humour there are occasions when I disagree with posts, or consider them plain wrong. I'm not obsessed with you, I just find that you are writing most of the posts I disagree with. I could give some examples, but I'm not obsessed. I'm not obsessed.

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Sparky said..

Magic Ride said..
That Sparky Cat, I tell ya, I think he's obsessing over me again. Crazy feline!! Now make yourself useful, and Chase some mice.

I should have some medical experience working in a hospital with patients, and advancing my career in Physical Therapy school, but can the little cat even process that.

As I read through the posts, enjoying the source of knowledge and some humour there are occasions when I disagree with posts, or consider them plain wrong. I'm not obsessed with you, I just find that you are writing most of the posts I disagree with. I could give some examples, but I'm not obsessed. I'm not obsessed.

Well I can tell ya this, there's many ways to skin a cat!! Ain't that the truth!! The beauty of diversity.

Spark, you need to also realize that in posts like this, your idea of something being wrong is most likely subjective. You need to understand that. There are specs, facts and subjectiveness. It's very interesting how you seem to always comment that something is wrong on my post when it is a subjective subject.

Now I gotta ask you Spark, what's your profession?

And yes, it's very obvious now that you're obsessed with me and it shows now. I'm sorry dude, but I'm not gay, so stop obsessing. I don't know what your deal is, but I don't care. Give it up, let's move on with these posts.

I have noticed you have other issues with people's posts. Stop the nonsence, grow up and move on you crazy goon!

I have a bad back but I actually find that windsurfing helps a lot - simply because it pulls my lower spine back into place. I also use a waist harness for that reason.
For sure, some waist harnesses give you a different height of pull, so pick the right one as some work better for a bad backs than others, and I find that a good fit is not about padding.
The load on your back is probably also about the gear you sail - and uphauling big and heavy sails is obviously more problematic than blasting about on smaller freeride gear or when wave sailing.

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Francone said..

Windxtasy said..

Magic Ride said..
MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin which has done well for me over the years.

These are good supplements for JOINTS not bones. They help in arthritis, not osteoporosis.

Sparky sounds like he knows what he is talking about, some other replies don't.

I am not an MD but I am a veterinarian and bones are bones. Vets do a lot more nutrition training than doctors.
Balanced calcium and phosphorus, vitamins D and K2 are important for good bone mineralisation.
If you do not live in Australia (shoveling snow suggests you do not) and your sunlight is weak you may need to get vitamin D as a supplement also.

I am concerned that you are totally uphauling. As I said, uphauling big sails (and 8m is big) puts huge compressive forces on your spine and compression fractures of vertebrae are the main problem in osteoporosis.
Do yourself a favour and learn to beach start and water start. You can learn beach starting in a session if you have someone to show you, and water starting won't take much longer.
You might be grateful for your diagnosis in the long term because you will be having so much more fun and getting a lot less tired when you don't need to uphaul.

The risk, to me. should further decrease by using :
1. the EZ-UPhaul device , by which the body's weight ( and not the back muscles) raises the sail off the water ,at the point where it is heaviest. By using it, the spine will always be erect: you just lean back with the rope hooked onto the harness.

I do agree the EZ uphaul would be better than a regular uphaul because most of the forces go through the pelvis and legs rather than the weaker arms and spine.

You are obviously fit and researching your problem well. I am sure you will come up with a combo of exercise/ diet/ behaviour which will see your condition improve. Osteoporosis can improve, that's why they test for it, so something proactive can be done.

You will get a thrill every time you successfully beach start. It is so much more satisfying than uphauling, as well as less tiring.
For your back foot problem - as you place the foot on the board, flex the leg, bringing the back of the board towards/under you. Keep some downforce on the mast, to keep the nose bearing away. You might find it easier to place the inside of your foot on the board to draw it toward you, rather than the sole, especially in deeper water.

Definitely push up on the sail with extended arms

Once you get beach starting in shallow water, start deeper and deeper and soon you will be water starting, although if your bay is really shallow, you may not need to.

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Magic Ride said..

Sparky said..

Magic Ride said..
That Sparky Cat, I tell ya, I think he's obsessing over me again. Crazy feline!! Now make yourself useful, and Chase some mice.

I should have some medical experience working in a hospital with patients, and advancing my career in Physical Therapy school, but can the little cat even process that.

As I read through the posts, enjoying the source of knowledge and some humour there are occasions when I disagree with posts, or consider them plain wrong. I'm not obsessed with you, I just find that you are writing most of the posts I disagree with. I could give some examples, but I'm not obsessed. I'm not obsessed.

Well I can tell ya this, there's many ways to skin a cat!! Ain't that the truth!! The beauty of diversity.

Spark, you need to also realize that in posts like this, your idea of something being wrong is most likely subjective. You need to understand that. There are specs, facts and subjectiveness. It's very interesting how you seem to always comment that something is wrong on my post when it is a subjective subject.

Now I gotta ask you Spark, what's your profession?

And yes, it's very obvious now that you're obsessed with me and it shows now. I'm sorry dude, but I'm not gay, so stop obsessing. I don't know what your deal is, but I don't care. Give it up, let's move on with these posts.

I have noticed you have other issues with people's posts. Stop the nonsence, grow up and move on you crazy goon!

Best management of osteoporosis is not subjective, there is a body of medical knowledge which establishes best practice. You mentioned some great ideas for management of general musculoskeletal conditions, Windxstasy mentioned the best protocol for osteoporosis management. I have a Bachelor of science majoring in anatomy and physiology from Sydney Uni, I studied pathology at University of NSW, masters degree in medical science, maquarie uni, also a registered chiropractor, who does many hours of professional development every year. Honestly, no ****.

with everyone giving their medical credentials here,
i just have to say the following:

in North America there was an advert with,"I am not a doctor, but play one on TV."

here ..."I am not a doctor, but play one on seabreeze."

for osteo :

1) NO more soft drinks !!!
2) less protein ?? calcium impact ??
3) keep stomach acidic ??
4) reduce caffeine !!!
5) calcium citrate
6) Vitamin D + sun for calcium absorption
7) hormones
8) diet
9) reduce stress - applies to all
10) exercise = MORE windsurfing

and NO mention of braces

I think the OP should persevere with beach starts and water starts. You don't get to go out on light wind days but there is still much fun to be had. I haven't done a rope start for 25 years. As someone else said, my dodgy back actually feels better after a windsurfing session.

I would seek a physical therapist, get a basic routine to stretch, making the muscles less tight will protect the bones.

the sailing activities that are being mentioned: sailing without a uphaul and water starting are of no value, right now.

he sails inland lake or similar, he sails on large boards , including a windsup, he will be using large sails
he can't beach start, does this present his sailing level and equipment usage?

many sailing areas don't offer a beach start, the wind isn't always strong enough to water start, only option remaining is up-haul. He should by now be able to beach start, fix this, don't be so impatient, once you can water start a new level of conditions , windy conditions are opened up, but now a smaller rig, which is not very likely at this point of his learning curve , age , and physical and mental condition can be used.

It ain't windsurfing, but at low speed, not jumping, a catamaran might be a fairly similar pleasure.

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forceten said..
I would seek a physical therapist, get a basic routine to stretch, making the muscles less tight will protect the bones.

the sailing activities that are being mentioned: sailing without a uphaul and water starting are of no value, right now.

he sails inland lake or similar, he sails on large boards , including a windsup, he will be using large sails
he can't beach start, does this present his sailing level and equipment usage?

many sailing areas don't offer a beach start, the wind isn't always strong enough to water start, only option remaining is up-haul. He should by now be able to beach start, fix this, don't be so impatient, once you can water start a new level of conditions , windy conditions are opened up, but now a smaller rig, which is not very likely at this point of his learning curve , age , and physical and mental condition can be used.

Seeing a physical therapist for osteoporosis-specific exercises, yes. This is in the plans.
As to " protecting the bones by making the muscles less tight" I don't understand what you mean by this, unless you mean that the bones and , assumedly, the spine are more protected if there is strong muscle to absorb stresses and blows.

If so, I'd agree. In fact, I am working right now on the muscles around the spine , mainly the latissimus dorsi and the back extensors, because these are the true body guards of the spine, as they absorb much of the stress which could otherwise cause compression fractures..

I must say, though, that in general ,( without being a Schwarzenegger) I already have well developed muscles ( albeit slightly hidden under a few extra-pounds of weight..) because I have been practicing for years until now various activities, including lapse swimming, biking and muscle training at the gym ( although I am cautious on weight-lifting because it exerts too a direct compression on the spine).

You are right in saying that
1) I sail on large boards, like a windsup,
2) I'll be using large sails because of light winds and
3) I can't beach start,

but I cannot understand what inferences or conclusions you intend to draw in stating these facts.

As to the last paragraph, it is unclear, too, but if I read it in conjunction with a preceding part of you post, I think you mean that
1) I should put water-start in the back burner, (because of the light winds prevailing here ) ,
2) continue to rely instead on uphauling until I learn beach-start and
3) use a smaller rig .

If this is what you mean, I fully agree, but then I don't understand why you say that ".. a smaller rig is not very likely (?)at this point of his ( my) learning curve , age and physical and mental condition.." (?) What do you mean ?

I am not trying to be ..( former) U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. It is just that I want to fully understand comments or hints that may be helpful to me, as many people in this Forum have been.

Thanks

Francone

Reading through the thread I really wonder if it is good to ask guys who are not medically trained to give you advice about your condition. Likewise it can be misleading to get advice from a doctor who has little or no experience with this sport. Osteoporosis is also quite different from other back complaints. Personally, I would be thinking about a different type of sailing. Something with a keel or centreboard perhaps, because the risk of injury is reduced. Not the same as windsurfing, but at least you can get out on the water and sail until you are 100 ??

Yes by making the muscles stronger, they will also be able to add support to the skeleton bits, you can only gain strength if they are able to sustain stretching without pain.

you don't sail in high wind, water starting on a huge ass board requires some expertise , WITHOUT having the opportunity to learn on a small board, waterstarting is probably not on the stove, let alone back burner.

beach start :::is I can't grasp that you haven't mastered it. This is a basic learning technique.

i can only guess at what your ability is along with your mental outlook.

their are 2 choices here.
dont sail.
sail and take the precautions available to the extent possible to minimize injury. Minimize the risk, in HUGE CAPS.

beach start is not going to fix your physical condition, water start practice may actually cause further injury.


Ref: medical advise, mine is listen and make your own choices. Acupuncture , an alternative medicine healer,

Continued moderate exercise, walking. The older we become the longer and more difficult to heal and lengthy it becomes.

I think you are better off just googling management of osteoporosis, and taking the average of the top ten answers if your are going to use the Internet as your solution. Please don't rely on any of the guesses here on this forum.
Try reading this for example:
www.racgp.org.au/download/Documents/Guidelines/Musculoskeletal/osteoporosis-guidelines.pdf

I think that I got enough ( and valuable!) feedback from this forum .

It will therefore be unnecessary ( for me) to pursue the issue. In the end, of course , the doctor will have the final word.

I don't think, though, that this forum has been a waste of time, at least not for me. It is like . gold mining: there is always precious advice , amidst perhaps some questionable or medically wrong opinions. ( and I can be as wrong as anybody else!).

For one thing ,further to Forceten's comment, I never thought for a moment that beach starting will fix my condition. Of course not! It will however reduce the risk of excessive stress to the spine, hence of fractures.

I am fully aware that, at best, appropriate medication, diet, exercise and calcium supplementation will stop the bone loss and restore bone density to a safer( albeit not totally SAFE ) level . It might take a year and if the rest of my body remains healthy an relatively strong as it is now, I may look forward to a few more years of active life.

Francone

Quite reasonable way to look at it

You definitely need to be concerned about osteoporosis of your spine, particularly with uphauling.

You stated that your bone density "T score" indicated that you have osteoporosis.
(I don't think you posted your actual T score for your spine.)

In fact, although the T score is important, osteoporosis experts now try to identify your "fracture risk" which is what is really important, more so than your actual T score. They are definitely not the same although a very low T score would be a big worry.

There will be many osteoporosis experts in Montreal who should be able to guide you through this issue. Maybe your risk is not excessive. It is good that you are physically active.

Certainly using an Easy Uphaul as well as a harness should help. Taking vitamin D and adequate dietary calcium can be helpful but other supplements will not help. Weight bearing exercise probably helps the bone strength and mostly helps strength and prevents injury.

^^^ yes!!!
i just gave you one of those green thumb thingys.

Yes & no the only time l stuffed my back from windsurfing was on land trying to carry a big sail up a steep incline to my derigging area.windsurfing is like anysport to it right your back will be fine.just my two cents worth.

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xxwindsurfer said..

You definitely need to be concerned about osteoporosis of your spine, particularly with uphauling.

You stated that your bone density "T score" indicated that you have osteoporosis.
(I don't think you posted your actual T score for your spine.)

In fact, although the T score is important, osteoporosis experts now try to identify your "fracture risk" which is what is really important, more so than your actual T score. They are definitely not the same although a very low T score would be a big worry.

There will be many osteoporosis experts in Montreal who should be able to guide you through this issue. Maybe your risk is not excessive. It is good that you are physically active.

Certainly using an Easy Uphaul as well as a harness should help. Taking vitamin D and adequate dietary calcium can be helpful but other supplements will not help. Weight bearing exercise probably helps the bone strength and mostly helps strength and prevents injury.

Sound advise, well said, the risk assessment T score that I recall has not been addressed.