I am 75 and have been windsurfing for many years, without ANY back problem, but a few days ago , when I was already savoring the incoming season, the verdict fell hard on me: I was diagnoses with osteoporosis .Totally unexpected!

Because of my low T-score ( bone density ) , the medical report warns me against a high risk of fracture to the vertebrae.

With that warning, if I never did any windsurfing, I wouldn't certainly start it now!

Knowing. however, that I must have been windsurfing in this condition , without knowing it, at least for the last two years, without any back problem, even less with fractures, I am considering to give it a try, with caution ( osteoporosis, especially with my low T-score, does not develop overnight ! )

If I never had any problems so far, it must be because, in spite of the " by the book" warnings of doctors, directed to the average patient of my age, I am very fit , with strong back muscles, which protect my spine against stresses and solicitations which would be dangerous for other people less fit..

I am sure a lumbar support brace can also help. Some people practicing sports with back problems wear them. These braces constrain the lumbar spine against excessive torsions, while still being relatively soft and comfortable. I'll speak to my orthopedist shortly, but, in the meantime, I'd like to hear comments, especially from windsurfers with back problems or with O.P. , if any.
Does anybody know about back braces or wear them while windsurfing? I should add that my windsurfing style is very leisurely, low speed, moderate winds, no jumping. Just gliding seated on the harness!

Thanks

Francone

Maybe try a different harness, worked for me.......

The biggest risks in windsurfing would be from uphauling heavy sails (if you need to do that) because that puts big compressive forces on your vertebrae, and falling heavily and landing on your rig (other bones).
If you are a competent sailor and stick to moderate conditions you should not place too much strain on your back. Wear an impact vest to protect your ribs in case of falling on the boom.
Continued exercise is important to keep your muscles in shape and also to put strain on your bones so there will be some stimulus to calcify them. If there are no stresses on the skeleton it decalcifies more. in addition, getting out in the sunlight helps you make vitamin D which is also important for mineralisation of bone.
Be aware that calcium supplements need to be in balance with phosphate for absorption and bone formation. A fact many doctors do not understand! The best way to get a balanced supply is by eating bones - cans of fish with small bones in them, chewing the soft ends of chicken bones, using bones in stews etc.
Vitamin K2 is also important for calcium metabolism. Add a K2 supplement to your diet.
Best wishes for continued health and long sailing

have a bent spine - and hardening of the xyz
supposed to cause stiffness and lack of flexibility
doctor is confused - tell him - all i do is windsurf to stretch my back

here is a previous discussion with same comments - windsurfing is GOOD for your back
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Is-windsurfing-bad-for-your-back?page=1

I agree very much with what Windxtasy has said. Yours is a specific condition, unlike osteoarthritis which can do with "exercising through it". With osteoporosis there is risk of fracture, and fracture is often your only symptom. Collisions causing fracture to ribs especially are a risk, also compressive forces on the thoracic(mid) spine. As stated, be cautious with heavy up hauling, also be careful not to sail in a long harness line, long armed posture which hunches you more. You may do well with a size smaller harness line to aid with leaning you back a little. I wouldn't recommend any back support, apart from behind your lower back on the drive home.

At 75 yo, your time on the water is limited, irregardless.
you are not going to fix what nature, heredity and past activities have dealt you.
minimalize your risk is the option I see as viable, no miracle vitamins supplements or sun are going to change your outlook.

without the gloom and doom , you can judge the risk by sailing , at all, and when , under what conditions.
i don't see a back brace as a benefit, the harness should do. The ribs protected Yes.
im near your age, so I look at my heath in similar fashion, the rush of windsurfing will stop in the near future.

judge what's best for you and revel in your days.

If you are using a waist harness, quit, that is hard on the lower back, switch to a seat harness. And if you are in the waves, make it a seat harness with a high hook, there are several, but not many, so shop around. The Flying Objects 'Transit' is a good option.

A bit different, but this reminded me, I had a really bad stiff neck for about a week, so I shied away from windsurfing, it hurt like sh1t, couldn't rotate my head. But one day the conditions were unavoidable, it was too good, so I went out, but I was cautious, maybe too cautious because I got launched, over the handle bars, and flat on my back, out in front of my rig,,,,, slam! I heard a crack in my neck, so I just laid there for awhile taking inventory of my movement, everything seemed to work okay, so I water started and headed back to shore.
Amazingly, my stiff neck was gone! I was cured by getting slammed, so of course I went back out.

High hooked seat harness is ok if it is putting pressure into the hollow of the lower back (like a waist harness does). What you don't want is the pressure going under your bony bottom. This causes flexion of the spine with possible vertebral body fracture at the junction of lower and middle back (kidney level)(T12/L1) or across center of middle back (T6/7), bra strap level ladies.

Waist harness may be slightly more likely to pressure and crack the side of your lower ribs. This can heal a lot better than the vertebral body though.

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forceten said..
At 75 yo, your time on the water is limited, irregardless.
you are not going to fix what nature, heredity and past activities have dealt you.
minimalize your risk is the option I see as viable, no miracle vitamins supplements or sun are going to change your outlook.

without the gloom and doom , you can judge the risk by sailing , at all, and when , under what conditions.
i don't see a back brace as a benefit, the harness should do. The ribs protected Yes.
im near your age, so I look at my heath in similar fashion, the rush of windsurfing will stop in the near future.

judge what's best for you and revel in your days.

I totally agree, my time on the water ( and maybe on land!) is limited. It is wise to be realistic and to accept the course of nature..Not quitting, though, not at least without trying to adapt our activities to our age and condition, especially if the overall body condition and strength are still good.

I'll be using the Ez-Uphaul to minimize the strain on the back and I'll learn beach starting. ( I never learned it because I was, perhaps rashly, overconfident in my strength and uphauling has never been a problem). Now it may be a problem, especially with an 8.0 !) and I have to adapt.

Regarding the harness vs brace issue, I just received to day a lumbar brace bought from Amazon. The ( seat) harness I have doesn't compare, even by far with it. They are altogether two different things.

The harness is still relatively loose, it fits around the lower abdomen and , as such, it wraps my back only at the end of the lumbar spine, i.e. the buttocks, which does nothing to protect the back.
The brace, on the other hand, wraps the whole lumbar area starting higher up in the back from the last thoracic vertebra down to the tail-bone. It is designed to exert compression at varying degrees, to prevent the lower spine from twisting too much, without compromising mobility and comfort.

AS a matter of fact I tried it right away to shovel snow ( Mother Nature has just dumped 3 feet of it yesterday!).
Last time I did it, a few weeks ago, the muscles of my back were a bit sore, especially the back extensor, but this time I had no pain whatsoever, most likely because the brace contained twisting and torsions within a safe limit. I have no doubt that it will help in windsurfing, too. I'll post the results.

I hope you may continue to enjoy your life for a LLLONG time( by the way I met a windsurfer here , last year, who is over 80! Very encouraging!)

Thanks for the comments and the..wisdom hints.

Francone

I say get out and windsurf like you were doing. Sounds like the only difference is you know you have a medical condition now, with maybe some aches and pains here and there.

Be proactive, take caution, listen to your body and you will be fine. Lots of good advice above, but your fit, you got windsurfing in your blood, which is all positive and motivating for you.

It doesn't hurt to start taking some supplements for your bones. Talk to your doc about it. I take MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin which has done well for me over the years. A lot of older folks your age got me hooked on those supplements and said they have really helped them. I took it as a word from the wise!!

Good luck

Magic, do you have any natural health or medical training? Do you have any personal experience with osteoporosis to back up your advice?

"listen to your body and you will be fine."
CRACK
oops

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Magic Ride said..

Be proactive, take caution, listen to your body and you will be fine.

Might work if you're a doctor - for the rest of us I suspect it's not that simple...

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Sparky said..
High hooked seat harness is ok if it is putting pressure into the hollow of the lower back (like a waist harness does).

Yes, but the lumbar brace I just bought does that even better than a waist harness , because it fits exactly around the lumbar area and it can exert as much pressure as I want on the hollow, by tightening it to the desired level. Moreover there are six additional vertical polypropylene spines which further contribute to keep the spine in place.

By the way, I just found out, by looking at some videos, that I have been using the uphaul rope with the wrong length all along .
I used to keep it almost snug along the mast, which forced me to bend over too much to grab it. I guess I have been lucky that my back never complained! I didn't realize that it should be long enough to allow standing upright when beginning to uphaul. A lot easier for the back!

Take care

Francone

The brace plus seat harness may be the way to go then.

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Magic Ride said..
MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin which has done well for me over the years.

These are good supplements for JOINTS not bones. They help in arthritis, not osteoporosis.

Sparky sounds like he knows what he is talking about, some other replies don't.

I am not an MD but I am a veterinarian and bones are bones. Vets do a lot more nutrition training than doctors.
Balanced calcium and phosphorus, vitamins D and K2 are important for good bone mineralisation.
If you do not live in Australia (shoveling snow suggests you do not) and your sunlight is weak you may need to get vitamin D as a supplement also.

I am concerned that you are totally uphauling. As I said, uphauling big sails (and 8m is big) puts huge compressive forces on your spine and compression fractures of vertebrae are the main problem in osteoporosis.
Do yourself a favour and learn to beach start and water start. You can learn beach starting in a session if you have someone to show you, and water starting won't take much longer.
You might be grateful for your diagnosis in the long term because you will be having so much more fun and getting a lot less tired when you don't need to uphaul.

Waist harnesses hurt my back big time so a seat harness is a must.

Flying Objects Transit has a huge amount of padding and it's the best harness I've tried.

Eat organic food if you are really concerned. You can get food delivered direct to your house from Mimsbrook organic farm near Armadale,it's expensive though.

Use only as big a sail as is needed.

When I tried a 8.7m KA Race a few months back my back hurt badly and that was after sailing it for only about 2kms! The run back to the car park I was really feeling the strain on my body!

A 7.5m Overdrive is a good light wind option.

Petermac, when was the last time it snowed in Perth? Does the place in Armadale deliver to the northern hemisphere.

And again, Francones is a specific question about a brittle bone condition called osteoporosis, not your run of the mill, achy, tired, sore, weak, sprained, disc bulging, sciatic, spasmed back.

I've had lower back problems most of my life but windsurfing doesn't worry it. I haven't rope started for a long time though.

i have shown Francone beach starting @ AAO , but he is stubborn
suggested he go to OKA where he can stay in shallow waters with on-shore winds, but he is stubborn
since you go mostly light winds Francone, maybe drop down to 7.x size in sails ??
won't lose that much in light winds ...
if bones and/or joints hurt, it seems losing weight seems to help too !!

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joe windsurf said..
i have shown Francone beach starting @ AAO , but he is stubborn
suggested he go to OKA where he can stay in shallow waters with on-shore winds, but he is stubborn
since you go mostly light winds Francone, maybe drop down to 7.x size in sails ??
won't lose that much in light winds ...
if bones and/or joints hurt, it seems losing weight seems to help too !!

Francone has a very good reason to try again now.
Old dogs can learn new tricks. They just take a bit longer.

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petermac33 said..
Waist harnesses hurt my back big time so a seat harness is a must.

Flying Objects Transit has a huge amount of padding and it's the best harness I've tried.

So u recommend a waist harness?

(yes it has a nappy but it sits exactly as a waist harness does)

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joe windsurf said..
i have shown Francone beach starting @ AAO , but he is stubborn
suggested he go to OKA where he can stay in shallow waters with on-shore winds, but he is stubborn
since you go mostly light winds Francone, maybe drop down to 7.x size in sails ??
won't lose that much in light winds ...
if bones and/or joints hurt, it seems losing weight seems to help too !!

Hey Joe !
Perhaps not stubborn. it was more because I was a bit discouraged at not getting it after a few attempts and I wanted to get sailing ASAP even at the cost of up-hauling, which I didn't really mind at that time. Now I think i have no choice but being a bit more patient and learn beach starting!

Thanks for the comments


Francone

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Windxtasy said..

Magic Ride said..
MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin which has done well for me over the years.

These are good supplements for JOINTS not bones. They help in arthritis, not osteoporosis.

Sparky sounds like he knows what he is talking about, some other replies don't.

I am not an MD but I am a veterinarian and bones are bones. Vets do a lot more nutrition training than doctors.
Balanced calcium and phosphorus, vitamins D and K2 are important for good bone mineralisation.
If you do not live in Australia (shoveling snow suggests you do not) and your sunlight is weak you may need to get vitamin D as a supplement also.

I am concerned that you are totally uphauling. As I said, uphauling big sails (and 8m is big) puts huge compressive forces on your spine and compression fractures of vertebrae are the main problem in osteoporosis.
Do yourself a favour and learn to beach start and water start. You can learn beach starting in a session if you have someone to show you, and water starting won't take much longer.
You might be grateful for your diagnosis in the long term because you will be having so much more fun and getting a lot less tired when you don't need to uphaul.

I am aware of the risk that my love of windsurfing may turn into harmful wishful thinking , ignoring prudence and the risks involved in careless uphauling and I'll certainly heed your invitation to caution when it comes to up hauling and learn beach-starting and water-starting instead. If , however, beach-starting will always be within reach,water-starting will not,
because it requires much stronger winds than those in which I normally sail. This means that I'll always be faced with some up hauling.

From what I 've read, the danger of compression fractures in the spine lies in lateral twisting and forward flexion, even more so in the lumbar area, where the spine has a wider range of twisting than in the thoracic area.

I was thinking that the risk of fractures is perhaps contained with safe ( or safer!) limits by keeping the spine erect when uphauling and by lifting the sail with the leg's muscles rather than the dorsal muscles. This is in fact how it should be done, except that I have always done the wrong way, I discovered, by keeping the uphaul rope too short and bending too much forward to grab it and raise the sail , as stated elsewhere.

The risk, to me. should further decrease by using :
1. the EZ-UPhaul device , by which the body's weight ( and not the back muscles) raises the sail off the water ,at the point where it is heaviest. By using it, the spine will always be erect: you just lean back with the rope hooked onto the harness.

2.the lumbar brace , which, as explained elsewhere, prevents the spine ( and the muscles connected to it) from excessive twisting and strain. If my anatomic rationale is correct, I don't see why some people don't see braces as useful. Perhaps they won't completely eliminate the risk of fractures, but they should help.

I am sure that , even though you are a veterinarian and not an MD, you are in a position to comment competently on the anatomic rationale of my argument and on the usefulness of the EZ-UPHAUL device and lumbar brace. Even more so because doctors , if they certainly know anatomy and physiology perfectly, for the most part know very little about windsurfing and the way it acts on the human body, unlless they practice it.

Thanks

Francone

"I am aware of the risk that my love of windsurfing may turn into harmful wishful thinking , ignoring prudence and the risks involved in careless uphauling and I'll certainly heed your invitation to caution when it comes to up hauling and learn beach-starting and water-starting instead. If , however, beach-starting will always be within reach,water-starting will not,
because it requires much stronger winds than those in which I normally sail. This means that I'll always be faced with some up hauling."

I'm willing to bet that where you are windsurfing, there are others there using the same size sails, but don't even have an uphaul attached to their rig because they never use them.
Once you learn how to water start, you'd be surprised at how little wind it takes to actually to it. Not only is water starting easier on your entire body, but it also eliminates you having to crawl back up onto your board, which in itself is not easy on your back. I'm sure you probably don't like to get back up to standing from just being on the floor, it's the same thing.
Work on your water starts in shallow water where you can still stand on the bottom, it helps getting it figured out. Also try to keep your arms straight when holding up the sail. I often see people who are learning to water start holding up the sail with bent arms, that just makes it harder to do.

I would just go with a good, solid, comfortable seat harness that supports the back as well, and cut out the use of a back brace when your on the water, but perhaps have a back brace handy after you take the harness off when back at the beach.

When you remove your harness, your larger muscles such as your Latissimus Dorsi, will adjust due to the pressure release from removing your harness. That kind of pressure release may irritate the Lumbar spine possibly influence your smaller muscles in the thoracic Spine area, and perhaps resignating in the cervical Spine posterior area of your back, affecting the smaller muscles such as your Teres Major and Teres Minor. I don't think your Trapezius muscles would be affected. All those muscles are going to readjust when the harness comes off and then possibly becoming a bother or discomfort to your Cervical, Thoracic and Lumbar spine areas. A back brace after the harness has been removed will help with the pressure release of the back muscles as the pressure from your harness is removed and subsides, and adjust the brace as necessary. Careful about your Coccyx and Sacrum now! Lol...

Now where the Vertebraes attach to one another connecting to the Intervertebral Discs, those supplements I mentioned above may help and perhaps not limited to the Transverse Process, Superior Articular Process, Lamina and Spinous Process of the Vertebrae.

Eating at healthy diet, becoming involved in weight barring exercise, supplements and meds may help.

That Sparky Cat, I tell ya, I think he's obsessing over me again. Crazy feline!! Now make yourself useful, and Chase some mice.

I should have some medical experience working in a hospital with patients, and advancing my career in Physical Therapy school, but can the little cat even process that.

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Mastbender said..

Once you learn how to water start, you'd be surprised at how little wind it takes to actually to it.

It sounds so easy to beach start and water start but , as usual , one is confronted with the usual gap between theory and practice.Sometime ago my good friend Joe-the -windsurfer , a usual presence in this forum, who lives around here, took the trouble of showing me how to beach start in a couple of feet of water.I watched him effortlessly hopping on the board and sailing away, in spite of his size which is larger than mine.
Easy, I thought, but when I tried I couldn't get the hang of it and I quit after fifteen minutes because I was ea bit discouraged and eager to sail..

The problems I had were:
1.Positioning the first leg on the back of the board . The board seemed to slip away, " kicked" as it were, by the leg.

2.Placing the front leg on the board while raising the sail into the wind and holding the boom.This is the trickiest part: possibly there was not enough wind to lift me up, but I might have also inadvertently pulled down the sail by hanging on it, instead of PUSHING it upward with extended arms . I 'll work on this.

Concerning the minimum wind force needed to waterstart, maybe somebody can give me an approximate idea, but I think at least 15 knts are needed, which doesn't happen all the time here, also given my weight ( 85 kg)
But If I can get at least to beach-start, this would already be a big step, also considering that most of the bay is shallow enough to allow beach-starting..

Francone

Sorry about your predicament Francone. I work in the field of health, fitness and rehabilitation.

I think you may face a deeper issue if windsurfing is your only passion in life and need to give it up. Depression and sadly suicide (sorry to bring the post to this level of emotion) is a very real concern in your age group (I regularly give Mens Health seminars to corporate groups, this is what I do for a living). Consider also the social/community aspect of windsurfing as well as the participation. Should you feel you have to give up windsurfing find another passion in life that gives you a purpose, a reason to get up in the morning other than mowing the lawn. Join a Mens Shed for example. I personally believe you might be better continuing sailing but modify your equipment and the conditions in which you sail to help reduce the chances of fractures. I'm with the above post by Magic Ride.

The only other thing I will add is that doing nothing will worsen your condition. Stay active and perhaps consider a general strength and conditioning program. Stressing the skeletal structures is what keeps bones strong (in conjunction with their bio-chemical requirements). This is why I generally strongly advise against use of any support devices (back braces). It tends to inhibit the muscle-skeletal and neuromuscular demands placed on joints, bones and muscles. We want these things working optimally when we are performing high demand activities like windsurfing, we don't want to "switch them off". Impact vest - absolutely, back brace -probably not, you will only weaken the support structures of the spine.

Seek professional advice, I would start with a sports physiotherapist. Happy sailing

Yes Fracone, 15 knots of wind is plenty of wind for you to waterstart with your weight, while using around a 6.5 size sail.

Keep in mind, the shoulders can get a lot of abuse when learning to water start. Let the wind pull you up onto the board. Don't try to over work yourself by trying to pull yourself onto the board, as in trying to do a pull up. The wind should be able to do all the effort for you as the wind would pull you up onto the board. All you need to learn is how to direct and position the sail, how to de-power and power the sail appropriately so you can get onto the board safely without being launched over the other side, and then getting the footwork down, from being in the water to mounting back up onto the board. This is a unique skill to grasp, but when you tackle it, you do it right every time, and all the specifics in you manoeuvre come together with ease and you can manipulate your entire rig like clockwork. It's amazing!!

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Belly25 said..
Sorry about your predicament Francone. I work in the field of health, fitness and rehabilitation.

I think you may face a deeper issue if windsurfing is your only passion in life and need to give it up. Depression and sadly suicide (sorry to bring the post to this level of emotion) is a very real concern in your age group (I regularly give Mens Health seminars to corporate groups, this is what I do for a living). Consider also the social/community aspect of windsurfing as well as the participation. Should you feel you have to give up windsurfing find another passion in life that gives you a purpose, a reason to get up in the morning other than mowing the lawn. Join a Mens Shed for example. I personally believe you might be better continuing sailing but modify your equipment and the conditions in which you sail to help reduce the chances of fractures. I'm with the above post by Magic Ride.

The only other thing I will add is that doing nothing will worsen your condition. Stay active and perhaps consider a general strength and conditioning program. Stressing the skeletal structures is what keeps bones strong (in conjunction with their bio-chemical requirements). This is why I generally strongly advise against use of any support devices (back braces). It tends to inhibit the muscle-skeletal and neuromuscular demands placed on joints, bones and muscles. We want these things working optimally when we are performing high demand activities like windsurfing, we don't want to "switch them off". Impact vest - absolutely, back brace -probably not, you will only weaken the support structures of the spine.

Seek professional advice, I would start with a sports physiotherapist. Happy sailing

Thanks for your participatory words .

Fortunately, I have so many intellectual interests that my life would still have a meaning ( and certainly an even deeper one than windsurfing!) if I were to give up this sport. I read a lot, learn new languages and I read the wisdom of the ancients in those languages which I learned in high-school in Italy and which I cherish most to this day : Latin and Greek , the ."spine " of our own western civilization.

No, I am not at risk for depression and suicide ! My " mental" muscles are too strong and very well trained for this to happen.

I fully agree on the necessity of staying physically active: as a matter of fact, for a long time now, I have been doing ( and still do) lapse swimming at the pool 3 times a week for general cardio fitness. Moreover, after learning my condition, only a week ago, I have immediately started doing exercises to strengthen the muscles of my body, more particularly those connecting to the spine, a good insurance against the risk of spinal fractures and may be a window of opportunity for continuing to practice windsurfing, albeit cautiously.

The exercises I do are those ( and only those) recommended by most websites dealing with osteoporosis, often managed by MD's or physiotherapists . I'll also see my orthopedist .

I was thinking of continuing jogging, but there are different opinions about this, some saying that it might put too much compression stress on the spine. I'll sort this out.

As to back braces, I agree: wearing them permanently may weaken the muscles, but I would only wear one for a few hours when windsurfing, to minimize the risk of fractures and muscle strains if I were to inadvertently stress the spine beyond the safe limit , as I have so far done not knowing my condition.

Yes, we wouldn't want to inhibit or " switch off" the " muscle-skeletal and neuromuscular demands placed on joints, bones and muscles" by permanently wearing a brace , but on the other hand a brace is in a way like a cast you put around the bone after it broke: it certainly prevents the muscle around it from working and it even " shrinks" it due to inactivity, but,without it, the bone may not heal properly or not heal at all, if it moves.

May be some of those " neuromuscular demands" which should not be hampered under normal conditions, would end up in fractures if they are excessive, due to excessive solicitations or stress on the spine . Wearing the brace for a few hours could prevent just this : excessive and potentially dangerous movements.

Thanks for your comments

Francone