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windsufering said..
Parkdale Yacht Club has the biggest active fleet of windsurfers in Australia
LOL

How is that possible, there is less than fifty AWA members in the whole of Victoria.

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cammd said..

windsufering said..
Parkdale Yacht Club has the biggest active fleet of windsurfers in Australia
LOL

How is that possible, there is less than fifty AWA members in the whole of Victoria.

Might even be less this year which is a bit sad. Once you take out the life members it's less. Hopefully there will be a change over summer

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kato said..

cammd said..

windsufering said..
Parkdale Yacht Club has the biggest active fleet of windsurfers in Australia
LOL

How is that possible, there is less than fifty AWA members in the whole of Victoria.

Might even be less this year which is a bit sad. Once you take out the life members it's less. Hopefully there will be a change over summer

Lol
PYC will have a average Fleet of 30 windsurfer LT on the start Line this year

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windsufering said..

kato said..

cammd said..

windsufering said..
Parkdale Yacht Club has the biggest active fleet of windsurfers in Australia
LOL

How is that possible, there is less than fifty AWA members in the whole of Victoria.

Might even be less this year which is a bit sad. Once you take out the life members it's less. Hopefully there will be a change over summer

Lol
PYC will have a average Fleet of 30 windsurfer LT on the start Line this year

That will be a great result

The following chart represents the number of sailors who posted in January on GPSTC in January & July over the last 10 years. Its a reasonable representation of active GPSTC sailors in Australia. Participation has remained reasonably constant over the last 6 years.

The following chart compares GPSTC postings in January in each state over the last 10 years.
Queensland is still increasing.
NSW & WA have been reasonably constant over the last 6 years
Tasmania and Victoria have been in decline for the last 3 years
SA was in decline but recovered last year

^^Guess all the 'Mexicans' are moving north of the border. Warm water, sunny days. Can you blame em???

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olskool said..
^^Guess all the 'Mexicans' are moving north of the border. Warm water, sunny days. Can you blame em???

Yeah , my bird bath out the back door was frozen over this morning , ( about 5mm ) , was a nice sunny day though . Pitty I was at work

Casting a fully loaded bait ...cha..ching!, zing ..ker plonk...!!!
They are certainly not advocating that bringing 1980 back to 2018 is the way forward in this article, it is however a crafty way of getting some sales growth (in the short term) by marketing to an already established enthusiastic market,... time to upgrade ol bessie, cha ching$$$$
I know what excites my nearly 6 yr old when i show him water sports stuff....and it sure as hell aint a bunch of sails doing 5 knts on lake!
The same sorts of images got me interested as a kid too, even if the most extreme are never achieved...sure great trying and aiming to!
Those GPS figures above are not a great read either, negative growth, stagnate to slightly downward trend.
Now it's time to sit back and grab a beer and some nuts...

But that article lacks any objectivity or any research, and it pretends to be arguing for novelty, when in fact it could basically have been written in 1982. It's silly that the article implies that it's about being accepting of "new views" when in fact the same stuff was being written well over 30 years ago.

The article shows its own folly when it notes that "mainstream" sports don't change that much - and yet their approach is vastly better at hooking kids than that of the "extreme" sports. Even an "extreme" sport as long established and highly marketed as surfing is much smaller than the big "mainstream" sports, as proven by surveys in many places. The narrow minded attitude of the writer can be seen in the fact that he insults computer games, instead of taking a logical view that they can teach windsurfing how to attract new blood - and it's not by being extreme.

Okay, so the writer is bored by flat water sailing - so who cares? What sort of prat assumes that what bores them also bores everyone under 25? The most popular segment of youth windsurfing is probably actually the Techno class. Even that is vastly less popular than Optimists and Lasers. The comparison of the number of kids on dinghies against the kids on "extreme" windsurfers will show that Finn's views are just one person's biased viewpoint.

Every segment of windsurfing is fantastic, even ones like flat water slalom that tend to bore me a bit. It's great and if you like it, good on you - but if we can applaud parts of the sport you love, why can't you have the same respect for others in return? Actually, someone like the writer, who appears to only like a very narrow aspect of the incredibly wide and wonderful sport of sailing, seems like a pretty narrow-minded and rigid person - but it's not until he starts slinging **** that I'd say it.

Okay, so your son says he's currently turned on by "extreme" windsurfing - well, most kids probably aren't. Even if your kid seems to love the pics at the age of six, that doesn't mean that he's going to get into windsurfing later. Lots of kids loved Thomas the Tank Engine when they were six, but they don't spend their days driving steam trains in their teens. Even if your kid does get into it, that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of kids are not into "extreme" windsurfing, even if they love sailing, so there is lots of evidence that it's the wrong way to promote the sport. It's a fantastic part of our sport, but that doesn't mean it's the future and that other forms are boring.

It's just sad that the idea of actually respecting the entire sport appears to be so hard for some people.

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Chris 249 said..
But that article lacks any objectivity or any research, and it pretends to be arguing for novelty, when in fact it could basically have been written in 1982. It's silly that the article implies that it's about being accepting of "new views" when in fact the same stuff was being written well over 30 years ago.

The article shows its own folly when it notes that "mainstream" sports don't change that much - and yet their approach is vastly better at hooking kids than that of the "extreme" sports. Even an "extreme" sport as long established and highly marketed as surfing is much smaller than the big "mainstream" sports, as proven by surveys in many places. The narrow minded attitude of the writer can be seen in the fact that he insults computer games, instead of taking a logical view that they can teach windsurfing how to attract new blood - and it's not by being extreme.

Okay, so the writer is bored by flat water sailing - so who cares? What sort of prat assumes that what bores them also bores everyone under 25? The most popular segment of youth windsurfing is probably actually the Techno class. Even that is vastly less popular than Optimists and Lasers. The comparison of the number of kids on dinghies against the kids on "extreme" windsurfers will show that Finn's views are just one person's biased viewpoint.

Every segment of windsurfing is fantastic, even ones like flat water slalom that tend to bore me a bit. It's great and if you like it, good on you - but if we can applaud parts of the sport you love, why can't you have the same respect for others in return? Actually, someone like the writer, who appears to only like a very narrow aspect of the incredibly wide and wonderful sport of sailing, seems like a pretty narrow-minded and rigid person - but it's not until he starts slinging **** that I'd say it.

Okay, so your son says he's currently turned on by "extreme" windsurfing - well, most kids probably aren't. Even if your kid seems to love the pics at the age of six, that doesn't mean that he's going to get into windsurfing later. Lots of kids loved Thomas the Tank Engine when they were six, but they don't spend their days driving steam trains in their teens. Even if your kid does get into it, that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of kids are not into "extreme" windsurfing, even if they love sailing, so there is lots of evidence that it's the wrong way to promote the sport. It's a fantastic part of our sport, but that doesn't mean it's the future and that other forms are boring.

It's just sad that the idea of actually respecting the entire sport appears to be so hard for some people.

I think it's a regional thing. And as for the West Coast of the US - he is right. And Techno is dead.

Right about what? I recently came across a study of youth sports in the LA region. "Mainstream" sports utterly dominated. Even a sport has heavily promoted as surfing only attracts 4% of youth - only 1% more than a minority mainstream-style sport like water polo. In comparison, 29% of kids played soccer, 10% did track and field, 23% did baseball and 29% went cycling.

Even in terms of trends, there is no big switch towards extreme sports. A West Coast USA study showed that in the 2000s, only one of ten listed "extreme" sports actually grew over a ten year period. The major growth sport was kayaking on simple, tough, cheap, slow plastic kayaks - about as far from an 'extreme' sport as you can get on water. As one of the West Coast pioneers in the plastic Sit On Top boom said directly, the boom happened when windsurfing got too extreme.

So the basic thrust of the article, which is that the extreme sport image is better at attracting kids than the mainstream sport image, is completely wrong. In every country, the mainstream sports are better at attracting youth than the "extreme" sports. The only "extreme" sport that rates anywhere near the top is skating, and that's not just "extreme" - it's also pretty cheap, pretty easy to do at any time in your own neighbourhood, and very economical on time. Extreme windsurfing is fantastic, but it doesn't tick those boxes.

Given that Finn is writing for a British magazine, it doesn't seem that he's writing for a west coast USA audience. He's coming from a place where only 11 kids did the youth/junior wavesailing nationals and no more than 13 did a national slalom event. In contrast, the sort of flat water racing events that Finn is slinging **** at attract up to 80 kids - and that's not counting the much bigger numbers that do local T15 events. The kids are voting with their feet, and they are saying loudly that Finn is wrong. Why should we listen to him and not to them?

"Extreme" windsurfing is fantastic. It's a vital part of our sport. But the simple fact is that most people don't do extreme sports, and it's not a good way to attract participants. If Finn was right, windsurfing would have been growing hugely over the 35 years since people started writing articles just like the one that Finn bizzarely thinks shows a "new view". It's actually been collapsing, and less extreme stuff like slow plastic kayaks and SUPs are booming.

Oh, and if Techno is dead it seems that the 314 kids who turned up for the world titles haven't got the message, nor have the parents who keep on buying Technos at the same rate they have been for years.

I agree with Chris, opinions are all well and good but numbers don't lie.

Techno may be dead on the West Coast of the US but how about Optimist and Laser, are they dead as well and if not can you then just put the lack of Techno down to regional differences or is it something else. Techno was all but dead in Australia a couple of years ago but with efforts from a number of people its making a comeback and is growing. The kids involved love it, but it doesn't happen by itself.

As for youth involvement in the more extreme side of windsurfing I am sure it would be much greater if conditions like those in Pozo existed all over the world.

The advantage of the centreboard classes is they don't rely on a narrow wind range to run events, and you can't expect kids and the average parent to spend time and money to go to events and sit on the beach for a week. Double forward loops and crazy freestyle moves may appear more exciting to watch than a course race in light wind, but a course race in light wind is better than sitting on the beach waiting for conditions that may not eventuate.

BMX, motocross, skateboarding are all quite extreme with their tricks and that works well to wow kids, the difference between those sports and windsurfing is they are very accessible to kids in their own backyard or out the front of their house or down the street at the local park. Extreme windsurfing will never be that accessible to most people in the world let alone kids.

You want to build youth windsurfing the centreboard classes are the way and the proof is in the numbers.

Jonesy your 6yo may love the look of double loops but are you going to send him or her out into a 20 knot breeze on an open surf beach to learn or will it be in 5 knots on flat water somewhere

When I was at the OTC Weymouth in July the National Sailing Academy next door was hosting the Optimist nationals.
The kids that I passed coming in, out with the foil set up were curious and said it looked cool. Could foiling provide the excitement draw and the ability to sail in ordinary conditions? Which manufacturer will be the first to develop kids foiling kit? Think inflatable irig and board with smaller foil.

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lao shi said..
When I was at the OTC Weymouth in July the National Sailing Academy next door was hosting the Optimist nationals.
The kids that I passed coming in, out with the foil set up were curious and said it looked cool. Could foiling provide the excitement draw and the ability to sail in ordinary conditions? Which manufacturer will be the first to develop kids foiling kit? Think inflatable irig and board with smaller foil.

Nothing against foiling but I think you are missing the point Chris has made

The "excitement draw" is not what gets the majority of kids involved in sports.

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lao shi said..
When I was at the OTC Weymouth in July the National Sailing Academy next door was hosting the Optimist nationals.
The kids that I passed coming in, out with the foil set up were curious and said it looked cool. Could foiling provide the excitement draw and the ability to sail in ordinary conditions? Which manufacturer will be the first to develop kids foiling kit? Think inflatable irig and board with smaller foil.

Study after study shows that kids (like most adults) aren't after the excitement draw as much as we tend to think they are. They like to hang with friends, do their sport well, and just have fun. They don't want to be sitting around or failing at the sport, especially in public.

The fact that there were 380 kids at that regatta who were sailing slow and old-fashioned Optis shows what attracts kids, and it's not speed or being extreme. The fact that most of those who keep on sailing will probably move to Lasers shows that even when they are teenagers, the same will still apply.

Foiling is fun and fantastic, but it may not be practical enough to attract lots of youth. What about the cost of the foil? Will a foiling board fit comfortably on the little lakes and harbour many of those kids come from? The very low number of adults who are racing on foils in the UK also seems relevant.

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JonesySail said..
Casting a fully loaded bait ...cha..ching!, zing ..ker plonk...!!!
They are certainly not advocating that bringing 1980 back to 2018 is the way forward in this article, it is however a crafty way of getting some sales growth (in the short term) by marketing to an already established enthusiastic market,... time to upgrade ol bessie, cha ching$$$$

How much did it cost to upgrade ol Bessie , I thought the price of an upgrade for existing sailors was pretty damn cheap.

Its interesting to read this interview with Peter Thommen from back in the 90s ( I guess you could argue that F2 did more than most to push windsurfing away from a recreational path).... I definitely get the impression that many of the issues have remained the same. The vid is a more recent interview which is also a little interesting too though I doubt he is correct about foiling.
www.americanwindsurfer.com/articles/peter-thommen-master-shaper/

LOL. Nothing has changed !

Studies show that kids aren't interested in what argumentative old coots think.
Pretty well every Bic Techno kid I have ever met wants to get into one of the short boarding disciplines (freestyle, waves or slalom) but can't because it doesn't suit their parents. Techno (Opti .laser) parent just want the " drop them off Saturday morning babysitting service " then pick them up at the end of the day.
Windsurfing Kids of today require much higher stimulation and excitement than 80's windsurfing for satisfaction.Peter Thommen eluded to this that it is the athletes that have changed more so than equipment. The learning curve and skill level have skyrocketed thanks to resources like Trictionay,Continentseven and youtube.
With foiling/slalom likely to be the olympic class,RSX is dead. With Techno being the feeder class ,well it's only a matter of time before it gets replaced too. Perhaps in 40 years time ,windsurfers returning back to the sport after a 25 year break will want to relive their youth and relaunch the Bic Techno class





40+ kids enter Pozo junior PWA event, the level is getting higher. 11yo girls doing forwards and 16 yo boys doing doubles.

Father Matt Schweitzer (also so of his father ) and son

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KA360 said..
Studies show that kids aren't interested in what argumentative old coots think.

Those studies are about what the kids want, not what about any old coot says. They are logical, independent and objective, which makes them much better evidence than the hate you throw around.

Yes, lots of the kids who get into Technos want to go shortboarding - and as you say, they can't because their parents have lives of their own. The sport has to deal with that. Not every kid has parents who flopped at their sport and wants to re-live their life through their kid. Not every kid lives in a coastal village. Most kids have to fit their sport into life within a family in major cities. Windsurfing has to deal with that.

Yes, lots of the kids who get into Technos want to go shortboarding. That's great. Shortboards are fantastic and only a liar would say that we longboarders have not said that shortboards are great, time and time again. FFS, look at the winners of longboard regattas and you'll see the names of people who have won kiting and wave nationals and PWA wavesailing titles and been on the national masters surfing team. These people know, and do, shortboarding better than you do.

However, those Techno kids got into the sport via a class that sails in all conditions, not via shortboarding. And the Techno class is great, but it only attracts a small minority of young sailors. Most young sailors are out there loving sailing their Optis, Lasers, and 420s. They are not into shortboards. Why not learn from that and learn from those kids?

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KA360 said..
Studies show that kids aren't interested in what argumentative old coots think.
Pretty well every Bic Techno kid I have ever met wants to get into one of the short boarding disciplines (freestyle, waves or slalom) but can't because it doesn't suit their parents. Techno (Opti .laser) parent just want the " drop them off Saturday morning babysitting service " then pick them up at the end of the day.

That's why the Techno class is so important, its a feeder for the entire sport

I don't think many kids want to windsurf because their dads do .
The new way is to find instant gratification , find peace in blaming others and borrow too much.
Im sure there are acceptions .

A few years ago now, taught my 14 year old to windsurf, picked it up in no time, won a JP board through a JP Young Gun promotion, was invited to Young gun camp in Rhodes, Dad couldn't afford to send him, kites started to appear at our local, he saw them, he was enticed by the trick side of kiting, learnt kiting in no time, won local comps, went on a sponsored kite trip to New Guinea, got kite mag write up, etc etc etc. He now kites once a year, comes for a sail with me once a year, and his favourite past time is spear fishing. I have no doubt if I'd had the money he'd be giving Jaeger a run for his money in Pozo.

Good to hear of a skilled kid , kinda sad it fizzed out .

We had our first big NEer for Spring. There were 20 gps sailor's and at least another 10 bump and jump at Wellington Point. There were only a handful of kites and no Windsurfer LTs

Chris- actually the list of long boarders that become successful at a shortboading discipline is pretty short. Yes Robby Naish and of coarse our Jessica Crisp ,very few others.They are freaks and thats why they are our heroes.

There are 2 pathways to becoming a windsurfer.
1 From a yachting/sailing club (you),long boarding with Olympics as the pinnacle .
2 Freeriders,(me)shortboarding with the PWA as the pinnacle of the sport.
These 2 groups rarely mix. For years I have racked my brain to try to come up with a way to join together and be one.
About 15 years ago a lady was in charge of the RYA in England and started the T-15 program. Normally that would be kids long boarding doing triangle racing. But she encouraged the kids to do all/whatever they wanted. They did slalom, freestyle and even took them wavesailing. Numbers of kids surged and England (with its lousy climate) became a windsurfing powerhouse and success not only in olympics but all other shortboarding disciplines. Sadly they have gone back to their old ways.

If Australian sailing would just show some interest and get involved with shortboard disciplines and get involved with the AWA the sport would benefit greatly. The talent pool, the opportunities for windsurfers to try something different and the ability to improve skills would increase.

An idea I had was if AS would run windsurfing instructor courses free of charge with the proviso that instructors would work off their debt by working 1 weekend a month at a yacht club teaching.They will then be able to use their accreditation for working holidays or paid instructing at their club. With a pool of instructors ,yacht clubs will have the incentive to buy equipment and charge for rental and lessons and make some $. WIN/WIN

Cam- its the feeder class for people from sailing clubs only. They majority of windsurfers have never been a member of a yacht club and their kids don't Techno. 30 kids visit Sanctuary Point over summer, can't convince any of them to go along to a free have a go day for Techno.There is some real talent in that bunch too.

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KA360 said..
Studies show that kids aren't interested in what argumentative old coots think....





40+ kids enter Pozo junior PWA event, the level is getting higher. 11yo girls doing forwards and 16 yo boys doing doubles.

Sweet mother of god, that's high off the water.

Yeah, that Pozo video rocked, too. Best sales pitch for windsurfing is for us to have fun and share the stoke with people. That's why foiling has so much potential - we are visible on days when other people are at the beach. And, the 80s are over. Remember all those people windsurfing? Well, they quit for one reason or another - mostly because the equipment sucked and was hard to learn on. If it was so great, they would still be doing it today.

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Chris 249 said..

KA360 said..
Studies show that kids aren't interested in what argumentative old coots think.

Those studies are about what the kids want, not what about any old coot says. They are logical, independent and objective, which makes them much better evidence than the hate you throw around.

Yes, lots of the kids who get into Technos want to go shortboarding - and as you say, they can't because their parents have lives of their own. The sport has to deal with that. Not every kid has parents who flopped at their sport and wants to re-live their life through their kid. Not every kid lives in a coastal village. Most kids have to fit their sport into life within a family in major cities. Windsurfing has to deal with that.

Yes, lots of the kids who get into Technos want to go shortboarding. That's great. Shortboards are fantastic and only a liar would say that we longboarders have not said that shortboards are great, time and time again. FFS, look at the winners of longboard regattas and you'll see the names of people who have won kiting and wave nationals and PWA wavesailing titles and been on the national masters surfing team. These people know, and do, shortboarding better than you do.

However, those Techno kids got into the sport via a class that sails in all conditions, not via shortboarding. And the Techno class is great, but it only attracts a small minority of young sailors. Most young sailors are out there loving sailing their Optis, Lasers, and 420s. They are not into shortboards. Why not learn from that and learn from those kids?

You are missing my point .... & his IMHO... I am not saying every kid getting into the sport will be Wavesailing or doing extreme Freestyle, or even Speedsailing. I am saying this is the draw. The pinnacle of performance is the draw - regardless of what level they will participate. To me his argument is not to villainize or even neglect the high end because it is still the carrot dangling in front of our noses & filters down to the gear we will use in whatever discipline we chose.