The Wally nationals will be in NSW this year, come along and share your thoughts with us.
Maybe we can organise a group hug and help you over come your issues . Remember Life line is a free service
and it's ok not to be ok , help is only a phone call away.

The only real way to settle this...

I nearly had a little accident.

So 360, you're abusing a form of windsurfing because of what you feel (arguably incorrectly) about one man, who basically has nothing to do with the Windsurfer LT?

The LT is the project of three people. Hoyle is not among them. Yes, Jim Drake played a huge role in the sport and was a lovely man, but Hoyle also presents another side to their ancient business dispute and to the patent issue. To not only apparently ignore one side of the issue but to sling ** at a class because of ancient history is destructive, rude and annoying.

Do we know who KA360 is ?....

Ka360, put me down for a t shirt please.
I will wear it as a tribute to how lucky we are to have people like you to remind us what we should be sailing and how delusional we are to think it would be possible to have fun on anything else .thanks mate.

Can i have the price in aud please, dont understand why you are quoting euro's?

Not interested in the beanie, maybe a foil hat. Have to protect myself from the evil windsurfing corps that are out to con me.

Nev

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AUS 814 said..
Do we know who KA360 is ?....

Google wasn't around when you bought your last board, just ask your grandkids they will know what it is.

Drake who invented and made the prototypes, a man with top level US security clearance and holder of national defence secrets is not to be believed. But Scheister a bankrupt beachbum conman is. Simple to work out, follow the money. The man with the brains that created it gets squat and the failed businessman with no input makes millions. Does that sound right?
Scheister made a deal with BIC while he was still in partnership with Drake. He took that very large sum of money without informing his business partner. He then begged Drake to sell him his share for a pittance. Greedy Scheister happily swindled his good friend .FACT

There are numerous threads here on Seabreeze about helping newcomers into the sport. Encouraging others is what is great about Seabreeze.Many have been suckered into buying crappy 80's gear before seeking advice.
Yet at the same time people are promoting old 70's gear and calling it Windsurfer LT. Using the trademark WINDSURFER must also mean kind of payment to greedy Scheister

Now we have 3 old-timers (does at least 1 of them still windsup) trying to reinvent the 70's Wally.
Here is what they could have done to get out of paying royalties to greedy Scheister

You have to get help

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KA360 said..

AUS 814 said..
Do we know who KA360 is ?....

Google wasn't around when you bought your last board, just ask your grandkids they will know what it is.

All pretty sad really, you would think anyone who has involvement in the racing scene would be supportive of any type of sailboard racing

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windsufering said..
.....
I see a Olympic gold medal as the holy grail of windsurfing

Totally disagree! The Olympics has done nothing for windsurfing and has killed many a class that has had the misfortune of being selected for it.

The Holy Grail of windsurfing is a great big simle on your face.

Everything else is just white noise..... annoying, distracting and irrelevant.

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KA360 said..
Drake who invented and made the prototypes, a man with top level US security clearance and holder of national defence secrets is not to be believed. But Scheister a bankrupt beachbum conman is. Simple to work out, follow the money. The man with the brains that created it gets squat and the failed businessman with no input makes millions. Does that sound right?
Scheister made a deal with BIC while he was still in partnership with Drake. He took that very large sum of money without informing his business partner. He then begged Drake to sell him his share for a pittance. Greedy Scheister happily swindled his good friend .FACT

There are numerous threads here on Seabreeze about helping newcomers into the sport. Encouraging others is what is great about Seabreeze.Many have been suckered into buying crappy 80's gear before seeking advice.
Yet at the same time people are promoting old 70's gear and calling it Windsurfer LT. Using the trademark WINDSURFER must also mean kind of payment to greedy Scheister

Now we have 3 old-timers (does at least 1 of them still windsup) trying to reinvent the 70's Wally.
Here is what they could have done to get out of paying royalties to greedy Scheister

KA360 I don't believe you are right:

"Established in 1979, Bic Sport has been dedicated to the sea and water sports right from the start. It all began in Brittany, France just a few kilometres from the Atlantic Ocean, our origins are in windsurfing, having acquired a strong reputation all over the planet, Bic Sport has diversified into the other water sports such as surfing, kayaking and kitesurfing over the past 10-years."

From wikipedia under windsurfing: "In 1979, Schweitzer licensed Brittany, France-based company Dufour Wing, which was later merged with Tabur Marine - the precursor of Bic Sport. Europe was now the largest growing market for windsurfers, and the sub-licensed companies - Tabur, F2, Mistral - wanted to find a way to remove or reduce their royalty payments to Windsurfing International."

From another source:

"In his original interview in American Windsurfer, however, Mr. Drake did not claim to be the inventor of the universal joint -- the pivoting joint that attaches the sail to the surface of the board, which is a key feature of a sailboard -- but rather said that he could more accurately be described as its ''re-inventor.''....... Mr. Schweitzer bought Mr. Drake's patent rights for $36,000 in 1972. Hundreds of thousands of boards have been sold."

The licence to Dufour Wing was in 1979 some seven years after Drake sold out so your comment appears wrong that: "Scheister made a deal with BIC while he was still in partnership with Drake. He took that very large sum of money without informing his business partner. He then begged Drake to sell him his share for a pittance. Greedy Scheister happily swindled his good friend ."

It does not sound accurate, indeed what you say appears false and misleading. What is your source ? What is the basis of this scurrilous claim ?

Agree Sailquick !. Racing although fun does little in promoting sailboarding to the masses.
Most of us sail cos it's fun not for the racing and this is the difference between us and yachting. I possed a question at the YV conference. "Who sailed this month for fun" No hands up except us sailboarders. It took "who sailed this year " to get a response from the yachties.
Banging on about racing represents a very small part of our sport.
Lets promote the whole sport, racing, waves, freestyle and fun !!!??

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kato said..
Agree Sailquick !. Racing although fun does little in promoting sailboarding to the masses.
Most of us sail cos it's fun not for the racing and this is the difference between us and yachting. I possed a question at the YV conference. "Who sailed this month for fun" No hands up except us sailboarders. It took "who sailed this year " to get a response from the yachties.
Banging on about racing represents a very small part of our sport.
Lets promote the whole sport, racing, waves, freestyle and fun !!!??

Is sailing insane distances over a 24 hour period classified as fun Kato?

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sailquik said..

windsufering said..
.....
I see a Olympic gold medal as the holy grail of windsurfing

Totally disagree! The Olympics has done nothing for windsurfing and has killed many a class that has had the misfortune of being selected for it.

The Holy Grail of windsurfing is a great big simle on your face.

Everything else is just white noise..... annoying, distracting and irrelevant.

Ok you have a different opinion to me
thats fine .
You want have to worry much longer, it looks like windsurfing (sail boarding) will not be in the Olympics and you will be happy

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KA360 said..
Come on Dag,,you have to admit that the shirt and the hat are funny and creative.

Yep, the T-Shirt was pretty funny.

(That's the only positive thing I have to say about KA360.)
Anyhow, I'm off WINDSURFING now. See y'all on another thread.

I stand corrected RichardG , it was not Bic but TenCate.









Interview with Jim Drake by American Windsurfer
worth reading
www.americanwindsurfer.com/articles/origins-of-windsurfing-jim-drake/

RIP. old mate Peter Chilvers.

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kato said..
Agree Sailquick !. Racing although fun does little in promoting sailboarding to the masses.

Banging on about racing represents a very small part of our sport.

You must have your blinkers on. Techno class is 10000 active sailors all teenagers. Third biggest sailing class in the world and the biggest windsurfing class.

Then there is Formula, RSX, Raceboard's, Wallies, Foils, Slalom, Kona, MOD, RS One etc etc. Then lets consider LOC and Defi WInd.
They are all racing so I think it represents the largest organised section of our sport

Check out below what a club focussed on racing does to promote windsurfing to the masses

www.rqys.com.au/sailing-academy/allcourses/windsurfing/

The Discover windsurfing day on April 14th (next weekend) is Free, run by the volunteer RACERS to promote windsurfing.

Then have a look at the what the racers in NSW are running the little ripper series and hosting come and try days.

Windsurfing is growing at Youth level and its racing that is at the core of that growth

Judt jumped in on this long long thread.
If left up to some on here it will never die.
To help longevity foiling is and will be the direction.

^^^ Yeah so all the participants fall asleep and can't take up any other sport...

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cammd said..
You must have your blinkers on. Techno class is 10000 active sailors all teenagers. Third biggest sailing class in the world and the biggest windsurfing class.

Very sceptical of those figures..... Source?

See, the thing is, it is very hard to go anywhere and see a Techno sailing. I have never seen one, that I can recall, let alone a Techno race, and I live in a great windsurfing spot and have travelled all around Australia to windsurf.

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cammd said..
Check out below what a club focussed on racing does to promote windsurfing to the masses.....

How long has this stuff been going on?

It certainly has not translated to a huge growth in 'windsurfing of the 'masses'. In fact. Shops have been disappearing along with masses of sailors quite steadily up until now.

Don't get me wrong, I think windsurfing will survive and modestly prosper, but I certainly don't think it will be because of one design racing or the Olympics, or any other kind of traditional racing. It appears to me that the advent of GPS-Speedsurfing/ GPS-TC has had far more of a real effect in Australia. Especially on certain areas which are quite easy to see in the GPS-TC team listings. Like the "Old Guys Rule" tee shirts say - "I was here yesterday!". I remember the heady days of the explosive growth in the '80s. I was part of the massive rollups to the Peter Jackson 'races'. It was great, but the sport has moved on and evolved, and we will never see those days again. The Defi wind is an exception, and outlier. I fantastic event for sure, but it is still an anomaly.

Kids have changed. Society has changed. Attitudes to sport and recreation have changed. The way people entertain themselves has changed. Computers and the intenet were invented! None of the active adventure/outdoor sports is really booming for the same myriad of reasons. But I think there will always be a small core of active ourdoors adventure orientated people who will want to do windsurfing. And a very small, even tiny, subset of those people who will do traditional longboard racing, and do it with enormous enthusiasm.

Have you been to sail melbourne ?

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cammd said..

kato said..
Agree Sailquick !. Racing although fun does little in promoting sailboarding to the masses.

Banging on about racing represents a very small part of our sport.

You must have your blinkers on. Techno class is 10000 active sailors all teenagers. Third biggest sailing class in the world and the biggest windsurfing class.

Then there is Formula, RSX, Raceboard's, Wallies, Foils, Slalom, Kona, MOD, RS One etc etc. Then lets consider LOC and Defi WInd.
They are all racing so I think it represents the largest organised section of our sport

Check out below what a club focussed on racing does to promote windsurfing to the masses

www.rqys.com.au/sailing-academy/allcourses/windsurfing/

The Discover windsurfing day on April 14th (next weekend) is Free, run by the volunteer RACERS to promote windsurfing.

Then have a look at the what the racers in NSW are running the little ripper series and hosting come and try days.

Windsurfing is growing at Youth level and its racing that is at the core of that growth

Never seen a Techno, sailed a RSX for a bit and a saw the Q Nats at Burrum a few yrs ago. There were 6 wallys on the water competing. The RSXs were so successful down here there still sitting in storage. Make an offer. Nice board but the rigs were horrible.
No racing anywhere in Vic or Sa but lots of sailing for fun.
And yes we do see good numbers for the come and try days but how many continue after???
Good luck pushing a broken structure without any long term planning or objectives.

Have you been to sail melb

Foiling is the only windsufering I have seen in over 6monrhs now , it is the new thing in windsurfing and seems to be the only thing at our local, atm that is not seeing the decline head even further down hill, which is a good thing ? Id hate to see the progression from windsurfing into kite boarding completely disappear. I enjoy history and seeing technology progress and would hate to see the roots of kitesurfing completely gone forever. It would be like never seeing an old 1972 kombi van ever again, or a dial telephone Oh how far things have progressed since them old days. Lets fight to keep the retro alive

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KA360 said..
I stand corrected RichardG , it was not Bic but TenCate.









Interview with Jim Drake by American Windsurfer
worth reading
www.americanwindsurfer.com/articles/origins-of-windsurfing-jim-drake/

KA360. Yes allowing for inflation $36k in 1972 is around $275K today. That was a lot of money back then. I guess Schweitzer got ripped off for a half share in an invalid patent ! That is why the Windsurfer International Inc enterprise went broke I would say, in view of claims for recovery of invalid royalties paid by former licensees.

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sailquik said..

cammd said..
You must have your blinkers on. Techno class is 10000 active sailors all teenagers. Third biggest sailing class in the world and the biggest windsurfing class.

Very sceptical of those figures..... Source?

See, the thing is, it is very hard to go anywhere and see a Techno sailing. I have never seen one, that I can recall, let alone a Techno race, and I live in a great windsurfing spot and have travelled all around Australia to windsurf.

cammd said..
Check out below what a club focussed on racing does to promote windsurfing to the masses.....

How long has this stuff been going on?

It certainly has not translated to a huge growth in 'windsurfing of the 'masses'. In fact. Shops have been disappearing along with masses of sailors quite steadily up until now.

Don't get me wrong, I think windsurfing will survive and modestly prosper, but I certainly don't think it will be because of one design racing or the Olympics, or any other kind of traditional racing. It appears to me that the advent of GPS-Speedsurfing/ GPS-TC has had far more of a real effect in Australia. Especially on certain areas which are quite easy to see in the GPS-TC team listings. Like the "Old Guys Rule" tee shirts say - "I was here yesterday!". I remember the heady days of the explosive growth in the '80s. I was part of the massive rollups to the Peter Jackson 'races'. It was great, but the sport has moved on and evolved, and we will never see those days again. The Defi wind is an exception, and outlier. I fantastic event for sure, but it is still an anomaly.

Kids have changed. Society has changed. Attitudes to sport and recreation have changed. The way people entertain themselves has changed. Computers and the intenet were invented! None of the active adventure/outdoor sports is really booming for the same myriad of reasons. But I think there will always be a small core of active ourdoors adventure orientated people who will want to do windsurfing. And a very small, even tiny, subset of those people who will do traditional longboard racing, and do it with enormous enthusiasm.

Techno 293 OD is the single biggest windsurf class with 10 000 young riders sailing somewhere in the world. Tens of thousands of young sailors are racing or have raced on this board. Techno 293 OD was recognized by World Sailing as a class in its own right in 2006. Since then it has seen phenomenal growth in more than 55 countries and on all 6 continents
- source International Windsurfing Association
www.internationalwindsurfing.com/userfiles/documents/T293_Original_Next.pdf

Take your blinkers off, try sailing some place other than a boggy stinking lake and get your heads out of your computers for a moment and you will see youth windsurfing is on the rise in Australia and One Design racing is the driver

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kato said..
Good luck pushing a broken structure without any long term planning or objectives.

Our objectives are to grow youth windsurfing in Australia so that the sport will have a future and all disciplines will benefit from new sailors including GPSTC. Our plans are to do it through providing courses for beginners, regular weekly social sessions to improve and learn, advanced courses and coaching to progress and finally Club, State, National and International competitions. Topped of with a good dose of blasting around on short boards just for the fun of it. All of the above is up running. We think that structure is sound and it is delivering growth in the sport locally in Brisbane. Even the local retailer is cheering due to increased customers.

We can only act locally and do our bit and at our local youth windsurfing is doing very well.

If you have never seen a kid on a techno that's most likely because your sailing with people wearing t-shirts that say "Old Guys Rule" and maybe your discipline doesn't interest kids so much. Talking about computers and GPS devices and alpha's and stuff would bore them in about 30 seconds. I will give you a heads up

They like to race against there mates and socialise before and after the racing.

Interested to hear why you think a class that is 10000 strong in 55 countries on 6 continents with 450 competitors in the last Worlds has a broken structure.

Dear Kato
Parkdale Yacht Club has the biggest active fleet of windsurfers in Australia
LOL