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sailquik said..

Subsonic said..

sailquik said..

When was the last time you saw, much less participated in a downwind slalom race on open ocean with a boat start? For me it was in the '90's. I did a lot of flatter water slalom figure 8 though and loved it, but that was also a very long time ago in the '90's.

It's still very much a thing over here in WA at least. Sure, we don't race every weekend, but there's around 6 race days of short course slalom spread over summer, and a few bigger weekend style ocean events that are long course slalom.

From what I've heard/seen, there's also a decent amount of slalom racing happening on the east coast as well. I envy what Qld has going on.

Yes. I thought there ware a few slalom type races in WA. That seems to be the last holdout.

Zero slalom racing in Victoria for a very long time!

Have heard of nothing in SA, NSW or Qld but it might be happening in secret.

I know Qld and NSW have a few GPS races, but I dont think thats really the same thing.

Nothing against it. It can be great fun and I certainly loved it in the 90's, but it needs commitment and organisers. WA seems to have a bit of that.

Definitely not happening in secret! Plenty there if you care to look.

bayside sailboard club in Brisbane has been running slalom and foil slalom the last two summers with an average fleet of 15 to 20 sailors at each round, 50 members total. The average age of our sailors is in the low 20's with many new sailors coming through, especially on the foil.

we have run successful state slalom champs for fin and foil the past two seasons. All downwind slalom. We have also held a marathon slalom and have a solid crew which compete at the green island slalom nationals every year.

we have a great photographer and some great drone footage with commentary on races over our Facebook and YouTube. Heaps there if you look.

Whilst I would love to join the Marmong Point guys a lot more often than I do, the distance for me to travel coupled with work and home life simply gets in the way too often. They do a great job up there and I am very envious that we don't have something similar on the NSW south coast. Kudos to Byron / Muz / James / Ian W et al...

As for the PWA slalom, I frequently watch it and follow most of the top riders on social media. The commentary that Ben Profit provides (along with special guest commentators such as Sean Hogan) is simply top notch and is truly entertaining.

Whilst I acknowledge Daffy's comments regarding the type of sailing that they do, I simply enjoy watching insanely talented sailors sailing in (sometimes) great conditions. The slalom race between AA and Iachino in 2019 was truly amazing and something more than just providing relief for insomnia whilst watching it live.

Imagine the excess baggage bill for sailors carrying slalom, foil, freestyle and wave kit to become overall windsurf champion.

Sylt 2021
32 male wave sailors
22 male freestyle sailors (6 did wave)
41 male slalom sailors

So for an overall title you would need all 89 to do the 3 events, or restrict the number of sailors on the tour.

I think the days of overall champion are gone.

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Mitch Pearson said..

sailquik said..

Subsonic said..

sailquik said..

When was the last time you saw, much less participated in a downwind slalom race on open ocean with a boat start? For me it was in the '90's. I did a lot of flatter water slalom figure 8 though and loved it, but that was also a very long time ago in the '90's.

It's still very much a thing over here in WA at least. Sure, we don't race every weekend, but there's around 6 race days of short course slalom spread over summer, and a few bigger weekend style ocean events that are long course slalom.

From what I've heard/seen, there's also a decent amount of slalom racing happening on the east coast as well. I envy what Qld has going on.

Yes. I thought there ware a few slalom type races in WA. That seems to be the last holdout.

Zero slalom racing in Victoria for a very long time!

Have heard of nothing in SA, NSW or Qld but it might be happening in secret.

I know Qld and NSW have a few GPS races, but I dont think thats really the same thing.

Nothing against it. It can be great fun and I certainly loved it in the 90's, but it needs commitment and organisers. WA seems to have a bit of that.

Definitely not happening in secret! Plenty there if you care to look.

bayside sailboard club in Brisbane has been running slalom and foil slalom the last two summers with an average fleet of 15 to 20 sailors at each round, 50 members total. The average age of our sailors is in the low 20's with many new sailors coming through, especially on the foil.

we have run successful state slalom champs for fin and foil the past two seasons. All downwind slalom. We have also held a marathon slalom and have a solid crew which compete at the green island slalom nationals every year.

we have a great photographer and some great drone footage with commentary on races over our Facebook and YouTube. Heaps there if you look.

How many current bayside members support the burrum windwanderers event just up the road?

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tbwonder said..
In NSW Marmong Point Sailing club run a six event summer series of GPS and Slalom events.
There are several formats offered ranging from GPS to Figure 8 and downwind slalom.
Downwind slalom is considered by the top sailors to be the ultimate format, but requires two boats and consistent wind.

I was aware that that club ran Course racing and GPS events. Its great to hear that there is still someone motivated, and organising racing, and obviously enough participation to make it worth it. I'm curious about how many times have they actually had a slalom race in the last few years?

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tbwonder said..
Whilst the events are not secret, generally they do not attract interstate competitors as regularly the events need to be postponed or cancelled due to lack of wind.

Thats not just a problem for potential interstate participants. It's very hard to get motivated even if you are even 100Km away when there is a high chance that there won't be enough wind to run the advertised event. Been there. Done that.

But I would think that if a club has the flexibility to run GPS events, and especially Foiling and/or Course Racing it would help a lot. It looks like that is the case with this club.

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Mitch Pearson said..
Definitely not happening in secret! Plenty there if you care to look.

bayside sailboard club in Brisbane has been running slalom and foil slalom the last two summers with an average fleet of 15 to 20 sailors at each round, 50 members total. The average age of our sailors is in the low 20's with many new sailors coming through, especially on the foil.

we have run successful state slalom champs for fin and foil the past two seasons. All downwind slalom. We have also held a marathon slalom and have a solid crew which compete at the green island slalom nationals every year.

we have a great photographer and some great drone footage with commentary on races over our Facebook and YouTube. Heaps there if you look.

Great to hear! Especially the bit about young participants.

I am guessing that the demise of printed Windsurfing publications has something to do with the lower level of widespread awareness of such events

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segler said..
Of course PWA matters. So does NASCAR, Formula 1, America's Cup, Tour de France, Olympics, FIFA, you name it. High level racing/competition is the leading edge of development. We all benefit from that development.

To be honest,
Every person in Australia would know about or follow NASCAR, Formula 1, America's Cup, Tour de France, Olympics, FIFA.
But if you asked the majority of Aussies, or all country's for that matter, what is the PWA and what do those letters stand for,
they would have no idea..

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lotofwind said..

segler said..
Of course PWA matters. So does NASCAR, Formula 1, America's Cup, Tour de France, Olympics, FIFA, you name it. High level racing/competition is the leading edge of development. We all benefit from that development.

To be honest,
Every person in Australia would know about or follow NASCAR, Formula 1, America's Cup, Tour de France, Olympics, FIFA.
But if you asked the majority of Aussies, or all country's for that matter, what is the PWA and what do those letters stand for,
they would have no idea..

Mmm. It'd be like asking what the GKA is. Sounds like a KGB splinter organisation to me.

Exactly. Thats my point, and I think its a good thing.
Those who truly love, live and breath surfing, windsurfing or kiting dread it getting more commercialized and increasing in popularity equalling more crowds in the water.

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sailquik said..
I was aware that that club ran Course racing and GPS events. Its great to hear that there is still someone motivated, and organising racing, and obviously enough participation to make it worth it. I'm curious about how many times have they actually had a slalom race in the last few years?

Without going back through all the results I would say that there is at least one weekend of downwind slalom each year and perhaps another two/three occasions with some form of Figure 8 racing, the remaining meetings may be GPS only. Years ago the introduction of GPS racing increased the likelihood of getting in some races on light wind days and of course foiling has further increased the chances of getting on the water. Most summer days we have at least 10 kts which is plenty for foil racing.

Looking through the SA forum, they have a slalom series as well. They also have their very own gps challenge:

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sailquik said..

duzzi said..
My last slalom race with a boat start in open ocean was in 2015.

Where? What country?

San Francisco. The slalom series at the San Francisco Sailing Club has going on for years. Stopped during the Pandemic, came back last year. Next one is coming up in May (Windsurfs and Wings, nobody kites, or windfoils, any longer) www.stfyc.com/default.aspx?p=.NETEventView&ID=3870844&seriesDate=7%2F1%2F2022&qfilter=&title=&type=0&ssid=334939&chgs=

Conditions are very demanding

The only PWA I'll watch is highlights, I'm not tuning in for the whole thing and mostly just look at wave events.

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PhilUK said..

.recessed decks around the mast track in freeride/freerace gear.

expect to see those in some wave boards in the near future, by the way.

what's the PWA?

I love watching the PWA, and now with foils and fin competing side by side it makes it even more interesting for me. The best thing about it is that it gets broadcast online with drone footage so we can see whats happening, and its usually on during our winter time, and at night, so i can come home from work and watch some awesome racing instead of some crap reality tv show ( which i wouldnt watch anyway).

PWA is good but very Eurocentric and for that reason says little to many in Australia about their lives. However I still watch it and enjoy it. I think the IWT (with events in Australia) would be very good for media coverage, sadly though the first two events were cancelled, if that is possible and especially any surf slalom. I think the IWT should have an event in Sydney and Torquay as well.

PWA - no it doesn't matter - if there were Aussies in it i be more interested

I have never spun a wheel in my life when driving a car - but i follow F1 as we generally have someone to watch - Weber and now Ricciardo

although Ricciardo is having a hard time

I used to stream the PWA about 10 years ago, when J P. Phil Mcgain & Steve Allen were kicking RS. I have no time for it now.
Roll on the Tour de France.

We need our "heroes" in every competition.
I follow NBA clubs which have Aussie players.
Watched MOTOGP while Doohan and Stoner reigned...
So will watch with interest any PWA where Aussies compete, otherwise, prefer to watch the local competitors in Cervantes, Safety Bay...and Lancelin. (Yes Lancelin is comming back next year).

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Obelix said..
We need our "heroes" in every competition.
I follow NBA clubs which have Aussie players.
Watched MOTOGP while Doohan and Stoner reigned...
So will watch with interest any PWA where Aussies compete, otherwise, prefer to watch the local competitors in Cervantes, Safety Bay...and Lancelin. (Yes Lancelin is comming back next year).

Would be good if they could somehow stream the Safety Bay slalom series, as the footage that was captured by Ironbark photos and posted on Facebook from that series this year went viral and was watched by thousands of people all over the world.

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Maddlad said..

Obelix said..
We need our "heroes" in every competition.
I follow NBA clubs which have Aussie players.
Watched MOTOGP while Doohan and Stoner reigned...
So will watch with interest any PWA where Aussies compete, otherwise, prefer to watch the local competitors in Cervantes, Safety Bay...and Lancelin. (Yes Lancelin is comming back next year).

Would be good if they could somehow stream the Safety Bay slalom series, as the footage that was captured by Ironbark photos and posted on Facebook from that series this year went viral and was watched by thousands of people all over the world.

The Cervantes video has over 20000 views on Youtube and 10000 on the FB..And yet, the TV stations shown no interest.

A footballer with a tatoo on his butt, or a tenis player who almost missed the birth of his child due to the Covid seem much more interesting.
Then again, they know their audience...

It is not necessarily the sport but the commentator that wins interest. Like Ben's reports. They are entertaining. Set your TV on mute and any sport is boring.
Also the issue with windsurfing is the weather dependency. Being at a PWA event and seeing a bunch of guys/girls sitting on the beach waiting for wind for a week has no charm.

Who doesn't enjoy watching onshore slop at Sylt

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Peer78 said..
It is not necessarily the sport but the commentator that wins interest. Like Ben's reports. They are entertaining. Set your TV on mute and any sport is boring.
Also the issue with windsurfing is the weather dependency. Being at a PWA event and seeing a bunch of guys/girls sitting on the beach waiting for wind for a week has no charm.

I was watching the tour de france one year (back when i was riding) it was the final day, it was live feed and it was a race decider. SBS that year had also won the rights to screen the ashes.

They kept switching to the ashes in the closing moments of the race when things were really starting to heat up. I could sort of understand this, except what they were actually switching to was rain falling on the cricket pitch as they pulled the covers over the pitch. It was extremely frustrating.


Cycling fans across Australia missed parts of one of the most exciting tour de france closing races, to watch rain fall somewhere else for no reason whatsoever. (Sorry, reading your comment about watching nothing going on made me think back)

but windsurfing is more of a watch after kind of a sport anyway. I know Ben Proffit does live streams, but in a wonderful fantasy world where they broadcast it on tv, pretty sure we'd be watching a delayed telecast (like the 18ft skiff broadcasts back in the day) where they could do away with the footage of nothing happening. Back to reality, windsurfing will never be a fully televised sport. The best we can hope for on tv is some iq foil footage when the Olympics are on.

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Obelix said..

Watched MOTOGP while Doohan and Stoner reigned...

I found the Doohan era boring as he dominated so easily. There were 3 levels of bikes and tyres as well. Same with Rossi to a lesser extent.
Stoner was better.
The current era where Aprilia has got its first win, KTM have wins, control tyres etc is much better. Not a Brit in the class. At least you have Miller.

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RichardG said..
PWA is good but very Eurocentric and for that reason says little to many in Australia about their lives. However I still watch it and enjoy it. I think the IWT (with events in Australia) would be very good for media coverage, sadly though the first two events were cancelled, if that is possible and especially any surf slalom. I think the IWT should have an event in Sydney and Torquay as well.

IWT is 5 or 6 regulars plus 20 others doing a one-off event for their holiday.
Not much prize money & no live stream(?), so its cheaper to put on.
If someone takes a win, so what, the world best arent there. But it might be good to watch (if someone videos it and puts it on youtube later).

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PhilUK said..

RichardG said..
PWA is good but very Eurocentric and for that reason says little to many in Australia about their lives. However I still watch it and enjoy it. I think the IWT (with events in Australia) would be very good for media coverage, sadly though the first two events were cancelled, if that is possible and especially any surf slalom. I think the IWT should have an event in Sydney and Torquay as well.

IWT is 5 or 6 regulars plus 20 others doing a one-off event for their holiday.
Not much prize money & no live stream(?), so its cheaper to put on.
If someone takes a win, so what, the world best arent there. But it might be good to watch (if someone videos it and puts it on youtube later).

PWA is very eurocentric. IWT is for Pacific and Indian Oceans with a few other places included and can expand around Australia and is closer to surfing with emphasis on waves. I much prefer the Aloha Classic and the Margarets event to other events. If a new event was added for Torquay and Sydney too it would possibly attract sponsors, it is about Australia, Pacific and the Americas not necessarily Europe. Some top sailors do the IWT and there are possibly better sailors in waves in Australia than in the PWA. Looks like good international riders in the 2019 event results: internationalwindsurfingtour.com/rankings-2019/

I personally don't like PWA because it has nothing to do with windsurfing that I do and that I love, I prefer to watch RED Bull storm chase or amateur windsurfing videos on Youtube. In my opinion, even without PWA there would still be a development of the equipment because I think that competitions are not needed to develop a product that in the end must be used by those who really does not compete in races, the only thing that matters for brands is that there is a market that buys their products if there is then you don't need the inputs of the competitions, those of the testers are enough to develop excellent products

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RichardG said..

PhilUK said..

RichardG said..
PWA is good but very Eurocentric and for that reason says little to many in Australia about their lives. However I still watch it and enjoy it. I think the IWT (with events in Australia) would be very good for media coverage, sadly though the first two events were cancelled, if that is possible and especially any surf slalom. I think the IWT should have an event in Sydney and Torquay as well.

IWT is 5 or 6 regulars plus 20 others doing a one-off event for their holiday.
Not much prize money & no live stream(?), so its cheaper to put on.
If someone takes a win, so what, the world best arent there. But it might be good to watch (if someone videos it and puts it on youtube later).

PWA is very eurocentric. IWT is for Pacific and Indian Oceans with a few other places included and can expand around Australia and is closer to surfing with emphasis on waves. I much prefer the Aloha Classic and the Margarets event to other events. If a new event was added for Torquay and Sydney too it would possibly attract sponsors, it is about Australia, Pacific and the Americas not necessarily Europe. Some top sailors do the IWT and there are possibly better sailors in waves in Australia than in the PWA. Looks like good international riders in the 2019 event results: internationalwindsurfingtour.com/rankings-2019/

Thanks for the link to IWT results. Best 4 results from 5 scoring events count. 6th placed Cuban did just 3 events. 7 did 4+ events. Page 2 gives place 11th onwards to 81, and all but 2 did more than 1 event, Those doing 2 had Maui as their second and were at the bottom of the rankings.
IWT goes to some fantastic places, but as a tour it lacks a lot. Regular competitors for 1.

The PWA rely on local organisers to raise the funding to host one of their events, to a higher standard. And thats the problem, lack of money. Or is it some places have the conditions, but just want to run their own events and not interested in a World Cup event?

2019 onwards PWA slalom has gone outside Europe to Japan, Korea, Noumea & Israel, they have had good conditions, but I think its lack of funding stopping them from returning. PWA Wave tour is a joke, where there are sometimes just 3 events on the calendar, with 2 on the Canary Islands.