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RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Do the Kiwis want the Glide or the foil ? I think the Glide would be better for NZ sailing. The foil will grow and race in the PWA. Why do NZ need the foil in the Olympics ?

So is the RSX out or does it just have to be evaluated against the other submissions against new criteria, whatever that may be.

Select to expand quote

windsufering said..

cammd said..

RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told

Sorry but you can't compare apples to oranges. Perhaps the differences in numbers on a start line says more about how easy/hard the sports are. I hear lawn bowling is popular with a certain demographic of the population, Olympic athlete???
Some people thrive on the challenge of mastering really difficult things in a competitive environment.
Anytime I teach someone new to windsurfing, I teach them on a long board. It's easy, requires much less physical ability and the age of the learner is pretty irrelevant. Not sure these are good prerequisites for Olympic athletes.

Select to expand quote

Belly25 said..

windsufering said..

cammd said..

RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told

Sorry but you can't compare apples to oranges. Perhaps the differences in numbers on a start line says more about how easy/hard the sports are. I hear lawn bowling is popular with a certain demographic of the population, Olympic athlete???
Some people thrive on the challenge of mastering really difficult things in a competitive environment.
Anytime I teach someone new to windsurfing, I teach them on a long board. It's easy, requires much less physical ability and the age of the learner is pretty irrelevant. Not sure these are good prerequisites for Olympic athletes.

LOL the Olympic committee are comparing apples to oranges

It seems comparing apples to oranges is exactly what WS want to do

The position of the Equipment Committee has long been that the Windsurfer Equipment should go through an evaluation process similar to that of the Laser/Laser Radial for the One Person Dinghy. The Equipment Committee voted, after lengthy discussion, "To reject the Board recommendation and recommend that the Board selects New Equipment and conduct sea trials against an updated set of criteria".

It would seem from the discussion that the Equipment Committee would like to see Windfoilers tested against displacement windsurfers.

The vote was a resounding vote to Reject by 0 votes for, 11 against and two abstentions.

Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

Select to expand quote

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Select to expand quote

windsufering said..

Belly25 said..

windsufering said..

cammd said..

RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told

Sorry but you can't compare apples to oranges. Perhaps the differences in numbers on a start line says more about how easy/hard the sports are. I hear lawn bowling is popular with a certain demographic of the population, Olympic athlete???
Some people thrive on the challenge of mastering really difficult things in a competitive environment.
Anytime I teach someone new to windsurfing, I teach them on a long board. It's easy, requires much less physical ability and the age of the learner is pretty irrelevant. Not sure these are good prerequisites for Olympic athletes.

LOL the Olympic committee are comparing apples to oranges

Sorry. I obviously need to clarify. I was referring to this statement;
"Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told"
Comparing apples to oranges.

Select to expand quote

Belly25 said..

windsufering said..

Belly25 said..

windsufering said..

cammd said..

RichardG said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

I think Australians will perform better in LT too and there will be and already is much much more interest in the LT than the RSX relatively in Australia. This will play out globally very well.

Well there is much more interest in foils in NZ and foils were mentioned specifically by the Kiwi's in the article. My money is on the foils, might have to think about getting one soon

Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told

Sorry but you can't compare apples to oranges. Perhaps the differences in numbers on a start line says more about how easy/hard the sports are. I hear lawn bowling is popular with a certain demographic of the population, Olympic athlete???
Some people thrive on the challenge of mastering really difficult things in a competitive environment.
Anytime I teach someone new to windsurfing, I teach them on a long board. It's easy, requires much less physical ability and the age of the learner is pretty irrelevant. Not sure these are good prerequisites for Olympic athletes.

LOL the Olympic committee are comparing apples to oranges

Sorry. I obviously need to clarify. I was referring to this statement;
"Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told"
Comparing apples to oranges.

RS:X to be put to the test

It was a similar story with the RS:X windsurfer, where several countries and a group of leading sailors spoke out against the continuance of the RS:X as recommended by the Board. The CEO of Yachting NZ, David Abercrombie, spoke up at Events Committee saying that windsurfing had virtually died off entirely in New Zealand - once the predominant nation in the Event. However, since the advent of the windfoil, participation in the foiling Board had jumped massively with 75 active competitors and 50 sailors contesting the inaugural Nationals. He essentially confirmed the sentiments expressed in the open letter of current Olympic and World Championship Dorian van Rijsselberghe (NED).

They had 24 entrants half of them were internationals in the foil nats
super Sunday had 30 LT's
also it must be noted that CEO of yachting NZ did not send windsurfers to the Olympics !

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

Select to expand quote

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

what do you mean about the extra money YA get?

Nice video on Finn sailing

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

windsufering said..
Apart from the Rsx the Lt is the only international class up for selection !
the extra money that yachting Australia gets some people say is saving yachting Aust

what do you mean about the extra money YA get?

YA membership

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..

Chris249 said..
There was a very strange thing going under the name of i-foil but it seems to have vanished. I can't find any info about either foiler.

The decision to dump the RSX was reasonably close but rather odd considering that it's the second most popular and widespread class, and the only class that is more popular and widespread (the Laser) overwhelmingly won the vote.

It's hard to see why the Glyde would be anything more than a marginal improvement in performance, with massive economic cost. The LT would be a nightmare from some angles. Foiling seems to be unproven in Olympic sailing conditions, and Marseille is going to be very light as far as I know.

Why would the LT be a nightmare ? If Marseille is going to be very light sub 8 knots the LT would be better than the foil.

Because the stress that Olympic selection puts on a class normally tears it apart and drives away the amateurs. For example, my brother's mate was 3rd in the Laser worlds before it went Olympic. He did a very dedicated part-time campaign - lots of training after work and during weekends and weeks of full time training before worlds. But when it went Olympic he and almost all the 20-30 year olds walked away because they had no chance unless they wanted to go full time. The gap opens up and becomes embarrassing.

The same thing happened with IMCO and other classes. There are very, very few club fleets in any Olympic class anywhere in the world outside the Laser, which is now largely contested by youths and masters, and the Finns which were mainly masters. Try to find a club fleet of Nacras, 49ers, or 470s (which were popular club boats in some countries before they went Olympic). Manufacturers like their classes to go Olympic because the pros buy a steady stream of gear, but they don't get used in club fleets.

The other thing is that while the LT would be a good contender in some ways (personally I'd couple it with an open-supply shortboard to use in strong wind races) there would be such a cry of rage from those with one-track minds who hate the LT that it could cripple the class. We're doing really well as it is - let's concentrate on the class we have.

Select to expand quote

Belly25 said..

windsufering said..

Did you know that the windsurfer Lt had more entrants in the vic super Sunday session than the NZ windsurf foil national championships !
some mis truths are being told

Sorry but you can't compare apples to oranges. Perhaps the differences in numbers on a start line says more about how easy/hard the sports are. I hear lawn bowling is popular with a certain demographic of the population, Olympic athlete???
Some people thrive on the challenge of mastering really difficult things in a competitive environment.
Anytime I teach someone new to windsurfing, I teach them on a long board. It's easy, requires much less physical ability and the age of the learner is pretty irrelevant. Not sure these are good prerequisites for Olympic athletes.

Yes, but the Kiwis are also comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare the number of people in an Olympic class like the RSX to the number of people in a non-Olympic class because there are so few popular Olympic classes.

Look at International 14s in Australia compared to 49ers; Fireballs in most parts of the world compared to 470s; Etchells compared to Olympic Solings a few years ago; Elliott 6s compared to Elliott 7s etc; the ex-Olympic Yngling compared to Flying 15s.

Time and time again, reality shows that an Olympic class is normally only sailed by the very small number of people who are trying to get to the Games, so for the Kiwis to compare the RSX to foiling is an apples and oranges comparison - probably more than windsufering's comparison, which compared two non-Olympic classes.

Select to expand quote

AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

from a Team GBR document ;

At the Finn class World Championships the race length is approximately 2 hours. At Olympic level the races are generally 60-75 mins.
In winds above 10 knots the Finn class has a free pumping flag rule which means pumping is allowed.
Sailing the Finn is perhaps the purest athletic experience in world class sailing equalled perhaps only by the windsurfer (RSX).
Weight training is an essential part of Finn training.
Downwind the sailor can pump the mainsail one to one (the mainsheet coming straight from the boom and not going through the ratchet pulley system)- thus the loads are very high. Repetitive pumping is very aerobic and produces elevated heart rates which may reach over 90% of maximum heart rate.

Finn Sailor
Body weight : 96-106 kg
Height : 1.80-1.96 m
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 701-978 watts

RSX Sailor
Body weight : 68-74 kg
Height : 1.78-1.88
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 640-680 watts



RSX sailing is a lot more demanding than the LT.

Select to expand quote

fjdoug said..

RichardG said..
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

from a Team GBR document ;

At the Finn class World Championships the race length is approximately 2 hours. At Olympic level the races are generally 60-75 mins.
In winds above 10 knots the Finn class has a free pumping flag rule which means pumping is allowed.
Sailing the Finn is perhaps the purest athletic experience in world class sailing equalled perhaps only by the windsurfer (RSX).
Weight training is an essential part of Finn training.
Downwind the sailor can pump the mainsail one to one (the mainsheet coming straight from the boom and not going through the ratchet pulley system)- thus the loads are very high. Repetitive pumping is very aerobic and produces elevated heart rates which may reach over 90% of maximum heart rate.

Finn Sailor
Body weight : 96-106 kg
Height : 1.80-1.96 m
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 701-978 watts

RSX Sailor
Body weight : 68-74 kg
Height : 1.78-1.88
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 640-680 watts



RSX sailing is a lot more demanding than the LT.

Where is the data for an LT sailor ? I think you could assume that RSX sailing is more demanding but at Olympic level it maybe that LT sailing could be very demanding as the youth and fitness level will be sky-high.

If only the kids today wanted to stand on one without their mates laughing lol
But seriously, why not try put a class in the games that the general public WANT to watch or that might get some attention as its exciting to watch??
Seeing some dudes standing on 60's Malibu's, with hand warmers on, in 10knots of wind taking an hours to pump their sails around some buoys is never going to get on tv or be exciting to watch?????
The chicks in the pool with nose plugs doing jazz hands will get more air time.

Japan wanted Olympic bingo because so many elderly Japanese would give more TV time.... But that didn't fly with the olympic committee. Are these guys just out of touch??? Who doesn't want to see Olympic Bingo? Or maybe it was because the Bingo athletes would be tested for drugs.

Looks like the world sailing council rejected the Board's selection recommendations

www.surfertoday.com/windsurfing/world-sailing-council-rejects-rsx-for-paris-2024?fbclid=IwAR10wKaZYRR59Xz0vpddyaEpKwKfwd3MYAVIyouMmpccRPI8NfY2RYreK3E

What about the 2020 Olympics? Why do they decide on 2024 when the current Olympics is yet to happen. I guess the committee likes to plan ahead so if they make a bad dissions they can change it before the 2024 Olympics.

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.

Are we really that keen to see any class of sailing at the Olympics (or any other world event) where pumping a sail is the better option than what the craft was designed for, sailing. I don't want to offend those dedicated pumpers out there but it really looks pretty lame to me.
The Olympics is about money, most of which comes from broadcast rights and sponsorship, businesses that want highly visual and promotable material. Why does windsurfing get such terrible coverage at the Olympics? In my opinion one reason has to be that what has been the representing our sport at these events does not appeal to the broader public, businesses and thus the event organisers. The general public don't want to watch it, let alone many windsurfers.

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.

Pretty certain when they are sitting down they are hiking, working main and tiller with core working ??

Select to expand quote

AUS 814 said..

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.

Pretty certain when they are sitting down they are hiking, working main and tiller with core working ??

Sure but the LT sailor does it all standing up. He or she has to work, railing to windward, tacking and trimming standing up. Pumping is not permitted on the upwind legs just only 30 seconds after the start. Then downwind work and unlimited pumping standing up. A massive workout of the body's core and many muscles worked.

Select to expand quote

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.

Pretty certain when they are sitting down they are hiking, working main and tiller with core working ??

Sure but the LT sailor does it all standing up. He or she has to work, railing to windward, tacking and trimming standing up. Pumping is not permitted on the upwind legs just only 30 seconds after the start. Then downwind work and unlimited pumping standing up. A massive workout of the body's core and many muscles worked.

Lets call it a draw and move on

Select to expand quote

AUS 814 said..

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

RichardG said..

AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.

What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.

Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.

You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.

Pretty certain when they are sitting down they are hiking, working main and tiller with core working ??

Sure but the LT sailor does it all standing up. He or she has to work, railing to windward, tacking and trimming standing up. Pumping is not permitted on the upwind legs just only 30 seconds after the start. Then downwind work and unlimited pumping standing up. A massive workout of the body's core and many muscles worked.

Lets call it a draw and move on

OK. Thanks.