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Maddlad said..

duzzi said..

NordRoi said..
I guess all answers are good and I realized that everyone has a different objectives with foiling. Some wants to race and go fast, some want to foil in 8 knts...some want a no brainer for light wind. I have a strapless board (JP SUP FOIL) and go foil without an harness with my 5.2 wave sail. I still can't figure out what is really 12 kts looks like but I thing my sessions starts as soon as there gusts at around 12-13 kts. ;-)
It's like going surfing without a leash.

I wanted to reduce the quiver...now please no more how goods are those new foil specific sails are...this will break my paradigm. ;-)
Nr

Don't worry ... at least one major sail maker who I am aware of (Point-7) indicates that foil specific sails are only useful in competition AND in sizes 8.0 or above. Neil Pryde? I see the F4 development guys regularly at my local spot. They go out daily or so in 15-25 knots conditions using a NP 7.0 EVO XI racing sail (a slalom sail, often seen in the Bay used by slalom guys). The only NP foil specific sails are racing sails in size 8.0-9.0 and 10.0.

So pick a sail exactly as you would for a windsurf. If you sail powered up/overpowered you pick a sail that comes to life in those conditions, otherwise you pick a sail that as a good low end. And there are plenty sails do both.

Foil should make windsurfing easier: say no to double quivers!

Yeah i cant agree with that one sorry mate. I use the NP Evo Flight 7 metre foil specific sail all the time in anything above 14 knots and it is much better than my NP Evo Slalom 7 metre for foiling. Its much more stable and suits the foil much better. You can get away with a slalom sail on foils, but the foil specific sails are better in my opinion. I use the 8 Metre NP Evo flight in under 15 knots.

I don't think we are in disagreement. I said: racing sails are foil specific. And sure, go 7 and above if you want, I did not even know that the NP Evo flight II had a 7.0 size!

But if you are not racing is hard to see why you would need a foil specific sail when even major sail manufacturer do not produce one ...

I have the 8.2 Sailworks Flyer - it is my favourite for wind under 15 knots. It is the only foil specific sail of this size being made - I think. It is light and easy to do everything with - 2 cams are a joy to flip due to the low tension. If someone made a 9 for sub 15 kts with the same idea of simplicity and lightness - I would be on that in a flash. I think there is a case for a light wind only sail for foiling as that sub 15 is a rich area for most of us.

Ezzy makes a 8.5M Hydra Pro. A friend of mine has one and rates it very highly for heavier riders on lower speed foils in very light wind.

Grantmac, true, I would love to test drive one of those they look like an interesting sail!

I have been using the Ezzy Hydro Pro 8.5 for a year and now use it exclusively with my Falcon and either 800 or 1000 Starboard wing, 95 mast and 115+ fuse. It works quite well on this kit. I used to use it with my Levitator and SS 84 but I found that I could not lever out over the board enough and as a consequence was sailing it very upright which was a bit unbalanced. On the race setup you can achieve proper rig balance. The trick to this sail is actively adjusting the outhaul. With no cams, the draft will move around on you. I try to get the downhaul close (big range there too) and then vary the outhaul upwind based on arm pressure. Adjustable harness lines are key for me too - short upwind, long downwind. It's a great sail for people needing the power but want a lighter more supple sail. If you want pure speed and locked-in draft profile, then go for a race sail.

I am not 100% in tune with all the little details of foil specific sails versus regular sails, but i do notice that the 6.0 and 7.0 Flyer sails i have are easier to use than my Ezzy Cheetah 8.0 and the Duotone Super session 4.8. The flyers feel more controlled and seem to pump much better when needed. They also seem to get on foil quicker when the wind is on the lower end of their given range. I am probably going add another Flyer in the 5.0 (+ or - ) range soon.

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excav8ter said..
I am not 100% in tune with all the little details of foil specific sails versus regular sails, but i do notice that the 6.0 and 7.0 Flyer sails i have are easier to use than my Ezzy Cheetah 8.0 and the Duotone Super session 4.8. The flyers feel more controlled and seem to pump much better when needed. They also seem to get on foil quicker when the wind is on the lower end of their given range. I am probably going add another Flyer in the 5.0 (+ or - ) range soon.

Not be be insistent but it is a bit of an apple and oranges comparison. Of course RAF sails are less "controlled" than cambered sails ...

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excav8ter said..
I am not 100% in tune with all the little details of foil specific sails versus regular sails, but i do notice that the 6.0 and 7.0 Flyer sails i have are easier to use than my Ezzy Cheetah 8.0 and the Duotone Super session 4.8. The flyers feel more controlled and seem to pump much better when needed. They also seem to get on foil quicker when the wind is on the lower end of their given range. I am probably going add another Flyer in the 5.0 (+ or - ) range soon.

Are they the first year or the updated sail? I find my first year 7.0 sail very heavy when its filled with water and uphauling. Its tiring and I prefer to use the 6.0 to the point where i rarely use the 7.0. I'll just rig the 6.0 super baggy and cross my fingers.

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duzzi said..

excav8ter said..
I am not 100% in tune with all the little details of foil specific sails versus regular sails, but i do notice that the 6.0 and 7.0 Flyer sails i have are easier to use than my Ezzy Cheetah 8.0 and the Duotone Super session 4.8. The flyers feel more controlled and seem to pump much better when needed. They also seem to get on foil quicker when the wind is on the lower end of their given range. I am probably going add another Flyer in the 5.0 (+ or - ) range soon.

Not be be insistent but it is a bit of an apple and oranges comparison. Of course RAF sails are less "controlled" than cambered sails ...

The Cheetah has more battens than the Flyers and is a pretty stable sail as far as no-cams go. My 7.0 was my go-to B.F. (BeforeFoil) from 12 to the mid 20s and it had a ton of range with really very little draft movement. But, where it failed as a foil sail for me was deflating at the bottom end. Perhaps my take is different than excav8ter's but the less controlled part for me was that the varying power at the bottom end made flight (board pitch) unstable rather than draft. (Besides, Dave Ezzy might argue that the Cheetahs aren't really true RAFs but that's another thread.)

One afternoon on an old 2-cam Gaastra GTX completely changed my world and the direction of my quiver at the big end; and my poor Cheetah has only gotten wet a handful of times since.

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duzzi said..

excav8ter said..
I am not 100% in tune with all the little details of foil specific sails versus regular sails, but i do notice that the 6.0 and 7.0 Flyer sails i have are easier to use than my Ezzy Cheetah 8.0 and the Duotone Super session 4.8. The flyers feel more controlled and seem to pump much better when needed. They also seem to get on foil quicker when the wind is on the lower end of their given range. I am probably going add another Flyer in the 5.0 (+ or - ) range soon.

Not be be insistent but it is a bit of an apple and oranges comparison. Of course RAF sails are less "controlled" than cambered sails ...

It's very much an apples to oranges comparison. As others have said, in general, "use what you have, it'll probably work fine". I just thought I'd give my personal newbie thoughts, since I have a mixed bag of stuff. The 4.8 Super session is fun, but I prefer the feel and power of the 6.0. The Ezzy Cheetah is fine too. I've had many sessions with it. I'm anxious to get my new Duotone S-pace 9.3 and see how that works.

I will say that the foil specific sails are a much better experience than your traditional rig. I started on Ezzy Cheetahs and Infinities in the beginning prior to the foil sail movement. If you can find an old infinity, take the cams out, flatten the sail, and go for it. I've had good luck. However, I also own two Hydra Pro's and a Hydra Sport (7.0, 8.5 & 8.1 respectfully). Besides what people have mentioned above on the pro-s and cons of Foil specific sails, the major difference is in how they hand in flight. Due to the batten configuration in the Hydras, they allow you to take off early, and get through the gusts easier. On a foil, you have a tendency to fly through different wind patterns, and the Hydra's auto adjust so it won't knock you off (making it easier for a stable flight). But the biggest difference is in the sail/power forgiveness. With traditional rigs, sheeting the sail in small increments changes the power drastically, making it feel ON or OFF with power. The Hydras don't do that, making for a buffered power to not knock you off your feet. I contrast normal sails all the time to the Hydras, and still, I find myself reaching for my 8.1 all the time.

Longevity. I recently fed back some longevity data to Ezzy. Even though they are light, I have well over 80 sessions on my 8.1. I have fallen on it, drug it across the ground, beat the crap out of it, and it is still in great shape. the only issue is the clear panels are a little buffed up. Yes, you can use regular rigs, but the experience to be on a foil specific sail does make a difference in both learning and stable flights.

BTW, if anyone is interested in my 8.5 Hydra, it is for sale. I have my 8.1 and don't need the 8.5.

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IndecentExposur said..
I will say that the foil specific sails are a much better experience than your traditional rig. I started on Ezzy Cheetahs and Infinities in the beginning prior to the foil sail movement. If you can find an old infinity, take the cams out, flatten the sail, and go for it. I've had good luck. However, I also own two Hydra Pro's and a Hydra Sport (7.0, 8.5 & 8.1 respectfully). Besides what people have mentioned above on the pro-s and cons of Foil specific sails, the major difference is in how they hand in flight. Due to the batten configuration in the Hydras, they allow you to take off early, and get through the gusts easier. On a foil, you have a tendency to fly through different wind patterns, and the Hydra's auto adjust so it won't knock you off (making it easier for a stable flight). But the biggest difference is in the sail/power forgiveness. With traditional rigs, sheeting the sail in small increments changes the power drastically, making it feel ON or OFF with power. The Hydras don't do that, making for a buffered power to not knock you off your feet. I contrast normal sails all the time to the Hydras, and still, I find myself reaching for my 8.1 all the time.

Longevity. I recently fed back some longevity data to Ezzy. Even though they are light, I have well over 80 sessions on my 8.1. I have fallen on it, drug it across the ground, beat the crap out of it, and it is still in great shape. the only issue is the clear panels are a little buffed up. Yes, you can use regular rigs, but the experience to be on a foil specific sail does make a difference in both learning and stable flights.

How is the 8.1 finned? Does it still have the feel like the Cheetah? Thinking of getting the 8.1 and using it for foil & fin. Thanks.

Adding a little more to my Hydra Pro 8.5 observations. Quality and Durability are, of course, outstanding but there are compromises. I've already mentioned draft stability. It's not bad but don't expect a locked in feeling like a cammed race sail. The "luffability" adds to the sail being forgiving. It has exceptional range for a sail this large with only 5 battens and no cams. I do find that when I have the downhaul cranked I am good upwind with high apparent wind speed filling the sail properly. Downwind is a different story. Low apparent wind speed does not allow the luff of the sail to bag out. Instead, it stays very tight and doesn't properly allow that very long lower batten to rotate well when the outhaul is eased. Only one way to overcome this - ease the downhaul. This will allow that luff area to have proper depth and the sail will balance out properly off the wind. The problem is who wants to ease the downhaul downwind and then need to re-tighten upwind? Still, this is really an exceptional freeride foil sail but hard to have your cake and eat it too. Put it this way though - I would much rather be on this sail than my 2018 Warp 9.0. I know people have used them for foil but it's a damn heavy sail, too draft aft for foil, and too open on the leech. I'm sure the foil-specific race sails are better.

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ZeroVix said..

IndecentExposur said..
I will say that the foil specific sails are a much better experience than your traditional rig. I started on Ezzy Cheetahs and Infinities in the beginning prior to the foil sail movement. If you can find an old infinity, take the cams out, flatten the sail, and go for it. I've had good luck. However, I also own two Hydra Pro's and a Hydra Sport (7.0, 8.5 & 8.1 respectfully). Besides what people have mentioned above on the pro-s and cons of Foil specific sails, the major difference is in how they hand in flight. Due to the batten configuration in the Hydras, they allow you to take off early, and get through the gusts easier. On a foil, you have a tendency to fly through different wind patterns, and the Hydra's auto adjust so it won't knock you off (making it easier for a stable flight). But the biggest difference is in the sail/power forgiveness. With traditional rigs, sheeting the sail in small increments changes the power drastically, making it feel ON or OFF with power. The Hydras don't do that, making for a buffered power to not knock you off your feet. I contrast normal sails all the time to the Hydras, and still, I find myself reaching for my 8.1 all the time.

Longevity. I recently fed back some longevity data to Ezzy. Even though they are light, I have well over 80 sessions on my 8.1. I have fallen on it, drug it across the ground, beat the crap out of it, and it is still in great shape. the only issue is the clear panels are a little buffed up. Yes, you can use regular rigs, but the experience to be on a foil specific sail does make a difference in both learning and stable flights.

How is the 8.1 finned? Does it still have the feel like the Cheetah? Thinking of getting the 8.1 and using it for foil & fin. Thanks.

Actually, it does well. I haven't really compared my Cheetah 8.0 next to my Hydra 8.1, but perhaps I should. Regardless, it got a little too gusty/higher wind one afternoon for the 8.1 on my Foil board, so I took it out on my finned board and it performed really well! I was impressed!

I use Aerotech freespeed sails with minimal downhaul, 5.8, 7.2, 8.0 and 9.0, no crease in sail, and realy like them for foling, they are 100% x-ply and fairly light.

I have been checking out the duotone supersession. Its high and forward draft making it suitable for foiling. At least thats what theese guys are saying://www.windsurf.co.uk/duotone-super-session-5-9m-2020-test-review/
To my surprice my duotone dealer told me the opposite. He said something with a lower draft would be better.
How do you reason? Pros and cons with low/high, front/back draft?
Allso, they dont even bother selling the F-type since.. I dont quite remember what he said but I think it had to do with it not being good at handling speed, apparent wind etc. Instead he recomended their freeride sail e-pace with its new extra clew to make it foiling compatible. For smaller sizes he recomended their super hero.

Hello,

I got the 2018 super session 6,0-5,6 and they work very well for foiling on wizard 125 (6,0-5,6)and 105 (5,6).
As smaller size I use ice 5.0-4.2 and Volt 4.5 all 5 batten and they work very well also.
since the big wind of February I got a loft sails 3,7 wave scape that a 4 batten haven't test it yet.
for non cam sail what do you prefer more freeride, freewave, wave 5 batten or wave 4-3 batten?
it is really an handling and tuning question and what you want to do with the sails.
for super light wind I use S-type 6,6 on wizard and on a bigger Falcon board S-type 7,8 I like them as much as on normal windsurfing, light and super stable.

For the moment I am not seeing for my freeride foiling use a gain to get special sail for foiling

Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher. That's based of stuff I read and heard from experienced foilers, and it works better in my hand.

A few other things in the windsurf review also sound like this may be a good sail for foiling: "very light and pumpable", and "smooth and balanced" power delivery. But that may need to be taken with a grain of salt, since www.windsurf.co.uk never says anything negative in their tests.

How much you trust your dealer should depend on how well you know him. One of our two local dealers tends to base his advice heavily on what he currently has in the store. Some people like him, but others have ended up with rather poor gear choices based on his advice. If your dealer has (or can get) the Super Hero, but not the Super Session, I'd be very suspicious.

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boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

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NordRoi said..

boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

I definitely have found that for foiling I can generate more power pumping with max outhaul versus low outhaul. Maybe because foil pumping is much more vigorous than finned pumping. I tend not to mess with downhaul and leave it at low to mid, so cannot comment there.

I also much prefer a larger flater sail when on the foil, than a smaller fuller sail.

Well my Duotone S-pace 9.3 just came in. Hopefully I can pick it up soon and try it out this week. Lighter wind here lately.

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thedoor said..

NordRoi said..

boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

I definitely have found that for foiling I can generate more power pumping with max outhaul versus low outhaul. Maybe because foil pumping is much more vigorous than finned pumping. I tend not to mess with downhaul and leave it at low to mid, so cannot comment there.

I also much prefer a larger flater sail when on the foil, than a smaller fuller sail.

Agreed. Flatter is better once up on a flight. The issue is getting through the displacement mode to get going fast enough without a small puff.

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IndecentExposur said..

thedoor said..

NordRoi said..

boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

I definitely have found that for foiling I can generate more power pumping with max outhaul versus low outhaul. Maybe because foil pumping is much more vigorous than finned pumping. I tend not to mess with downhaul and leave it at low to mid, so cannot comment there.

I also much prefer a larger flater sail when on the foil, than a smaller fuller sail.

Agreed. Flatter is better once up on a flight. The issue is getting through the displacement mode to get going fast enough without a small puff.

Yeah. This flat sail theory does require pretty aggressive pumping, and probably only works on larger freeride wings. All the race foilers seem to rig a pretty full sail.

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..

IndecentExposur said..

thedoor said..

NordRoi said..

boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

I definitely have found that for foiling I can generate more power pumping with max outhaul versus low outhaul. Maybe because foil pumping is much more vigorous than finned pumping. I tend not to mess with downhaul and leave it at low to mid, so cannot comment there.

I also much prefer a larger flater sail when on the foil, than a smaller fuller sail.

Agreed. Flatter is better once up on a flight. The issue is getting through the displacement mode to get going fast enough without a small puff.

Yeah. This flat sail theory does require pretty aggressive pumping, and probably only works on larger freeride wings. All the race foilers seem to rig a pretty full sail.

Yes but we crank on the outhaul to flatten the profile upwind and release it a little to power up downwind. :)

Select to expand quote

Maddlad said..

thedoor said..

IndecentExposur said..

thedoor said..

NordRoi said..

boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

I definitely have found that for foiling I can generate more power pumping with max outhaul versus low outhaul. Maybe because foil pumping is much more vigorous than finned pumping. I tend not to mess with downhaul and leave it at low to mid, so cannot comment there.

I also much prefer a larger flater sail when on the foil, than a smaller fuller sail.

Agreed. Flatter is better once up on a flight. The issue is getting through the displacement mode to get going fast enough without a small puff.

Yeah. This flat sail theory does require pretty aggressive pumping, and probably only works on larger freeride wings. All the race foilers seem to rig a pretty full sail.

Yes but we crank on the outhaul to flatten the profile upwind and release it a little to power up downwind. :)

OK good to know. Thanks

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..

Maddlad said..

thedoor said..

IndecentExposur said..

thedoor said..

NordRoi said..

boardsurfr said..
Most of the time, I use freestyle sails for foiling, which also tend to have a high and forward draft. They work well, better than the freeride sails I have. I tend to rig them with less downhaul and more outhaul, which also moves the draft higher.

In very marginal wind, I'm still debating what works best for me. Wind is not very constant here so it's not really easy to test this but, I'm still wondering.

Low downhaul and max outhaul, or max downhaul and max outhaul. If I need to pump the sail and foil for a while before foiling, I seem to be able to pump the sail way faster(no loose in the sail) and be able to generate more power and foil sooner with the max downhaul and max outhaul.(not in windsurfing however).Also in marginal wind, If the wind is at the very minimum, it seems to be less efficient to get the apparent wind with the low downhaul and max outhaul...I seemed to be better with max and max.
However if the wind is strong enough to get going with a pump or two, I prefer low downhaul and max outhaul...but in the marginal, I'm still testing and not sure. Anyone else tried that...or It's just the gusty wind that play tricks on me?

I definitely have found that for foiling I can generate more power pumping with max outhaul versus low outhaul. Maybe because foil pumping is much more vigorous than finned pumping. I tend not to mess with downhaul and leave it at low to mid, so cannot comment there.

I also much prefer a larger flater sail when on the foil, than a smaller fuller sail.

Agreed. Flatter is better once up on a flight. The issue is getting through the displacement mode to get going fast enough without a small puff.

Yeah. This flat sail theory does require pretty aggressive pumping, and probably only works on larger freeride wings. All the race foilers seem to rig a pretty full sail.

Yes but we crank on the outhaul to flatten the profile upwind and release it a little to power up downwind. :)

OK good to know. Thanks

No worries at all. Always happy to help.