Fact...some sails break masts.
Assumption..."mine won't"

@LeeD it would help the conversation if you would read and react to what others are actually saying, not what you think they are saying (doing, knowing, etc.). the conversations you are having are all in your head.

Have you said anything about the subject of this thread?
650 wing with 9 meter sail.
No?

neither have you--other than polluting this post, in which you seem to excel. unlike you I actually have real experience with small slalom foils & foil race sails, but what's the point if all you get is nonsensical motherhood statements from you showing your bias, ignorance and self obsession.

Yeah so far the fastest on foil that I've done was downwind on a 115+/650/9.0. Doesn't compare to other speed demons here but I'm sure I can still set up 105+/650 and go faster. A guy here told me he hit 30kts on 650/105+ and either a 8.0 or 9.0, not sure of the sail but it was large.

Also the IQFoilers have hit around 30kts on the 900 wing with 9.0. Look at the results

www.iqfoilclassofficial.org/results

The 650 is much easier to ride at speed even for someone of my experience level.

Basically......
What you are combining is akin to slalom....with a 70 cm board, 9 meter sail.
You would be faster using a 75 cm board with a 7.8 sail.

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aeroegnr said..
Yeah so far the fastest on foil that I've done was downwind on a 115+/650/9.0. Doesn't compare to other speed demons here but I'm sure I can still set up 105+/650 and go faster. A guy here told me he hit 30kts on 650/105+ and either a 8.0 or 9.0, not sure of the sail but it was large.

Was that N.L.? He just posted some times on FB in that range. You've got some seriously good talent in your neighborhood.

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bel29 said..
...I actually have real experience with small slalom foils & foil race sails.

**ing understatement

But blind to obvious history.
Just because someone's DOES the sport at a high level does NOT mean he knows history at all.
L

Like Novak is a top tennis player, but he cannot translate what he does to words.

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Paducah said..

aeroegnr said..
Yeah so far the fastest on foil that I've done was downwind on a 115+/650/9.0. Doesn't compare to other speed demons here but I'm sure I can still set up 105+/650 and go faster. A guy here told me he hit 30kts on 650/105+ and either a 8.0 or 9.0, not sure of the sail but it was large.

Was that N.L.? He just posted some times on FB in that range. You've got some seriously good talent in your neighborhood.

not him in this case but he has hit 30 on the 900 i believe. I talk to him and run into him every now and then.

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LeeD said..
But blind to obvious history.
Just because someone's DOES the sport at a high level does NOT mean he knows history at all.
L

Miserable post from you on the Wing Foiling forum copied below

I know plenty on this windfoil forum who have been windsurfing longer than you with much more impressive histories.
They somehow manage to not brag at every opportunity and only offer advice when they can demonstrate they have relevant skills.

So what?
You are not being attacked by idiots, because you're just going with the flow and keeping out of sight.
That makes you great?
This is a forum! Do you know what a forum is?
And when someone tells you to +=> off, you have to tell them where you came from to get that point of view.
Or YOU just claim up and disappear.

"relevent" skills.
All skills are relevant.
You talk theory....that is relevant also.
It's relevant when guys like Roo tell us his experience as a Gaastra desert truck driver.
It's as relevant as me saying I was Regional team rider for the same company.
But just because you don't mention your history does not make you any more relevant.

And you say nothing about 600 wing with 9.0 sail, so you have nothing relevant to say, do you?

In Germany we have a nice phrase: "grandad is again telling stories about the great war" ...

Talking about the new small foiling boards, the new small slalom wings, it's completely irrelevant, whether you filled in your best years Coca Cola vendor machines or you have been a teamrider for Gaastra.

Both has nothing to do with slalom windfoiling 2022 and doesn't give you any experience to give valuable recommendations about this special topic.

If your only target in this forum is to brag about your (completely irrelevant and for me boring) surfing history - than write a book (and publish it).

Unfortunately this forum lacks an ignore function, so your many meaningless postings would be invisible.

P.s. I have a life (private and professional)
P.P.s. I have 700 and 500 cm2 foils - and dedicated foil sails between 8.0 and 4.0

ok my 2ct. I've been on Lokefoil for about three years now (SB before) so can only intelligibly talk about the former. (Duotone sails from their inception, NS before then)

my preferred set-up for slalom foil:
-up to 12/14 knots (8.8m): 760 wing
-12 to 16/18 knots (7.8m): 620 wing
- over 18knots (6.8 & smaller): 480 wing

when it gets to 25+, even the 480 wing gets a bit big, but I don't have a smaller one (yet)

a few important points:
-wind speeds are approximates, and much depends also on water state, wind consistency, etc.
-this is for slalom foiling, not speed foiling. for outright speed a smaller wing for each sail size is likely to be faster, but for slalom racing the only thing that matters is speed around the course not (just) straight-line speed. meaning, you need power/lift to get going (again), to get out of other's dirty air, and most important of all you need to nail the jibe no matter what happens around you.
-two wings of similar/same surface area are not necessarily comparable; much depends on their overall design (chord, span, shape, stiffness, angle...)

board sizes...? everyone is still figuring this out. for 9m sails I suspect 91cm boards will remain the standard. for 8m and smaller I suspect we will see much more development in the coming years--but there can be no doubt that the 91cm boards that were developed for the early PWA foiling days (mostly up/down course racing) simply cannot be the best fit for downwind slalom foil racing in 20+ knots on tiny sails.

Select to expand quote

bel29 said..
ok my 2ct. I've been on Lokefoil for about three years now (SB before) so can only intelligibly talk about the former. (Duotone sails from their inception, NS before then)

my preferred set-up for slalom foil:
-up to 12/14 knots (8.8m): 760 wing
-12 to 16/18 knots (7.8m): 620 wing
- over 18knots (6.8 & smaller): 480 wing

when it gets to 25+, even the 480 wing gets a bit big, but I don't have a smaller one (yet)

a few important points:
-wind speeds are approximates, and much depends also on water state, wind consistency, etc.
-this is for slalom foiling, not speed foiling. for outright speed a smaller wing for each sail size is likely to be faster, but for slalom racing the only thing that matters is speed around the course not (just) straight-line speed. meaning, you need power/lift to get going (again), to get out of other's dirty air, and most important of all you need to nail the jibe no matter what happens around you.
-two wings of similar/same surface area are not necessarily comparable; much depends on their overall design (chord, span, shape, stiffness, angle...)

board sizes...? everyone is still figuring this out. for 9m sails I suspect 91cm boards will remain the standard. for 8m and smaller I suspect we will see much more development in the coming years--but there can be no doubt that the 91cm boards that were developed for the early PWA foiling days (mostly up/down course racing) simply cannot be the best fit for downwind slalom foil racing in 20+ knots on tiny sails.

Seems to go with what I'm hearing. I have been considering nabbing the 725 too. Seems roughly comparable to the sizes you are stating. 550 front wing weather is rare enough here that I'm not sure if I'll bother yet.

Also, I don't find the 650 particularly challenging to jibe. I'm stilling touching down but closer and closer regardless of wing...

Few quick reactions:
-Agree jibing on 620 (in my case) wing is very approachable, but it's all about margins
-Loke wings are size by size more high aspect than SB wings (all the way through to the largest course race size), meaning their stall speed is generally higher
-Other important variables not touched on yet but equally relevant: length of fuselage, and size, shape and angle of stab
-Add mast rake and number of variables is near infinite.

In case of the really small foils I use the PD foil-comp 78 (with 6.0 or 7.0 foil sails).

My foil-comp 91 v1 - I use and recommend it only for larger sails and larger foils.

T36.. YOU are the ignore button!
You may choose to ignore..just skip it.
Who says you should consider a bigger foil for 9 meter sails?
Who says a smaller foil is needed with powered 6.0?
Ignore if you want.
Bel29 must think I'm an ignorant know nothing, and he has a right to.....but he's also saying he uses what I recommended.
9 meter sail could use a bigger foil.
In other threads, I've recommended smaller foils for windy days plenty of times.

I have the SB 1000, 800, and 650 wings. All three are easy wings to foil and gybes are not harder on the smaller one as long as you have speed. They are very predictable (I use them with 115+ fuselage). I only foil with my 76 cm freerace foilboard (70 cm OFO). When it's windy, I use the 650 wing and 3.7 sail and I can be zipping around and gibing no problem (not trying to be the fastest out there, just having fun).

Eager to try the 725, conditions permitting. Looks like it is just a little more chord and span than the 650. Think it's probably more suitable for the evening seabreezes we get here than the 650, based off of discussions here in this thread. Now if my skills can just catch up to all these toys.

Be interested to see what the new SB wing shape is like....
560 SLR Evolution C300*
460 SLR Evolution C300*
390 SLR Evolution C300*
starboardfoils.com/pages/2022-wind-foils-overview

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berowne said..
Be interested to see what the new SB wing shape is like....
560 SLR Evolution C300*
460 SLR Evolution C300*
390 SLR Evolution C300*
starboardfoils.com/pages/2022-wind-foils-overview

Whoa, about time.

Rode the 725 just a while ago. Foil felt better than the 650 by what I thought was noticeable on the 95c, wide board. I, however, was getting sketched out in the gusts that overpowering me so much on my 7.5 that I switched to a fin board and just went planing.

Felt more upwind power and a bit more stable. Didn't break any speed records but not fully sheeted in I hit 21kts, just didn't feel comfortable out by myself with voodoo swells getting up to 1-2ft combined with the patchy gusts. Didn't fall and even flew most of the way through my jibes but I really needed to be on a smaller rig.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..

berowne said..
Be interested to see what the new SB wing shape is like....
560 SLR Evolution C300*
460 SLR Evolution C300*
390 SLR Evolution C300*
starboardfoils.com/pages/2022-wind-foils-overview

Whoa, about time.

Rode the 725 just a while ago. Foil felt better than the 650 by what I thought was noticeable on the 95c, wide board. I, however, was getting sketched out in the gusts that overpowering me so much on my 7.5 that I switched to a fin board and just went planing.

Felt more upwind power and a bit more stable. Didn't break any speed records but not fully sheeted in I hit 21kts, just didn't feel comfortable out by myself with voodoo swells getting up to 1-2ft combined with the patchy gusts. Didn't fall and even flew most of the way through my jibes but I really needed to be on a smaller rig.

I have the SB 800 Evo frontwing/115+/255. I am thinking to get a smaller wing but I feel 650 would be better for high wind (>20 mph) set up. Could you comment what choice would be better 725 vs 650?

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SA_AL said..

aeroegnr said..

berowne said..
Be interested to see what the new SB wing shape is like....
560 SLR Evolution C300*
460 SLR Evolution C300*
390 SLR Evolution C300*
starboardfoils.com/pages/2022-wind-foils-overview

Whoa, about time.

Rode the 725 just a while ago. Foil felt better than the 650 by what I thought was noticeable on the 95c, wide board. I, however, was getting sketched out in the gusts that overpowering me so much on my 7.5 that I switched to a fin board and just went planing.

Felt more upwind power and a bit more stable. Didn't break any speed records but not fully sheeted in I hit 21kts, just didn't feel comfortable out by myself with voodoo swells getting up to 1-2ft combined with the patchy gusts. Didn't fall and even flew most of the way through my jibes but I really needed to be on a smaller rig.

I have the SB 800 Evo frontwing/115+/255. I am thinking to get a smaller wing but I feel 650 would be better for high wind (>20 mph) set up. Could you comment what choice would be better 725 vs 650?

You have the 105+ as well right? Both feel best on that.

I've gotten the 650 flying in pretty light 10-12kts but for my purpose and skill the 725 seems better.

Based off of comments here and what I've experienced when you start getting above 20kts a smaller rig and narrower board than my 95cm really seems appropriate. I don't have enough experience nor gear to say much other than I'm in survival mode unless the water is flat for that windspeed. But I've had a race foil for just under a year and it was mostly light wind. I prefer to be on a fin still with that kind of wind.

7.5 feels appropriate for my board, my 6.6 feels twitchy and goofy on that same board even though I've flown the 650 with that and the 5.8 even on the 95+. 105+ is much more stable.

It's worth exploring either, but also really seems to take advantage of these small foils and their speed you need the right fuse, board, sail, and decently raked foil mast at that windspeed. Or bigger free ride foil with a tiny 4.0 or below.

Also, this video has the 725 at the beginning before I switched to my windsup

I've got the SB system with a range of options I use based on conditions and what mood I am in. After learning on SSi76 and a couple free ride foils I was wanting more speed so I took the plunge and got myself:

Fuses - 95+, 105+, 115+
Front Wings - 650, 725, 800
Tail wings - 330, 255(-2), 255(-2) thin
IQ Mast

So for easy free riding, I have Ezzy Hydras and use the GTR configuration 800/95+/330 w/ -1.0 shim. This works well for all around reaching in the 12-25 knot range with 4.0-7.0 Hydra. I also use these sails w GTR configuration when its gusty or up 'n down as its easier to manage the sail, or when I just want to relax and cruise.

For speed and free race applications, I have Point 7 F1 foil slalom sails in 6.7 and 7.7

For 12-18 knots I use the 7.7 with 725/115+/255 with 0 shim
For 18-22 knots I use the 6.7 with 650/105+/255 with +0.5 shim
above 22 knots I release the tail to 0.0 and switch to the 255 thin

These configurations combined with a foil specific race sail are really fast and fun for me. The race configurations are probably 2-5 knots faster than the GTR/Ezzy combos. I feel like it is very close to my fin speeds (don't really know, don't have a GPS yet) but against fin sailors I know I am competitive reaching and over a course as long as I fly my jibes I can pull ahead easily. The race sails are bigger and heavier obviously but in some ways using a more efficient and faster foil is easier as its easier to transfer power to the foil and just go faster rather than opening the sail and having to move your body. It feels more like traditional windsurfing than using low aspect foil w/ tiny soft sails.

I find the SB foils to be superbly engineered compared to other brands. Sure it was a big investment, but I will get years of enjoyment out of this system with potentially many 100s of sessions.

I have sold off all my fin gear and am foiling full time now, not looking back!!! It has easily quadrupled my water time.

Other details

me: 178 CM, 90 KGs
boards: Exocet RF 91 and custom Roberts GT (~78cm)
dog: Bernese mountain dog, super goofy version

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tswei99 said..
I've got the SB system with a range of options I use based on conditions and what mood I am in. After learning on SSi76 and a couple free ride foils I was wanting more speed so I took the plunge and got myself:

Fuses - 95+, 105+, 115+
Front Wings - 650, 725, 800
Tail wings - 330, 255(-2), 255(-2) thin
IQ Mast

So for easy free riding, I have Ezzy Hydras and use the GTR configuration 800/95+/330 w/ -1.0 shim. This works well for all around reaching in the 12-25 knot range with 4.0-7.0 Hydra. I also use these sails w GTR configuration when its gusty or up 'n down as its easier to manage the sail, or when I just want to relax and cruise.

For speed and free race applications, I have Point 7 F1 foil slalom sails in 6.7 and 7.7

For 12-18 knots I use the 7.7 with 725/115+/255 with 0 shim
For 18-22 knots I use the 6.7 with 650/105+/255 with +0.5 shim
above 22 knots I release the tail to 0.0 and switch to the 255 thin

These configurations combined with a foil specific race sail are really fast and fun for me. The race configurations are probably 2-5 knots faster than the GTR/Ezzy combos. I feel like it is very close to my fin speeds (don't really know, don't have a GPS yet) but against fin sailors I know I am competitive reaching and over a course as long as I fly my jibes I can pull ahead easily. The race sails are bigger and heavier obviously but in some ways using a more efficient and faster foil is easier as its easier to transfer power to the foil and just go faster rather than opening the sail and having to move your body. It feels more like traditional windsurfing than using low aspect foil w/ tiny soft sails.

I find the SB foils to be superbly engineered compared to other brands. Sure it was a big investment, but I will get years of enjoyment out of this system with potentially many 100s of sessions.

I have sold off all my fin gear and am foiling full time now, not looking back!!! It has easily quadrupled my water time.

Other details

me: 178 CM, 90 KGs
boards: Exocet RF 91 and custom Roberts GT (~78cm)
dog: Bernese mountain dog, super goofy version

dog photo required

Select to expand quote

tswei99 said..
I've got the SB system with a range of options I use based on conditions and what mood I am in. After learning on SSi76 and a couple free ride foils I was wanting more speed so I took the plunge and got myself:

Fuses - 95+, 105+, 115+
Front Wings - 650, 725, 800
Tail wings - 330, 255(-2), 255(-2) thin
IQ Mast

So for easy free riding, I have Ezzy Hydras and use the GTR configuration 800/95+/330 w/ -1.0 shim. This works well for all around reaching in the 12-25 knot range with 4.0-7.0 Hydra. I also use these sails w GTR configuration when its gusty or up 'n down as its easier to manage the sail, or when I just want to relax and cruise.

For speed and free race applications, I have Point 7 F1 foil slalom sails in 6.7 and 7.7

For 12-18 knots I use the 7.7 with 725/115+/255 with 0 shim
For 18-22 knots I use the 6.7 with 650/105+/255 with +0.5 shim
above 22 knots I release the tail to 0.0 and switch to the 255 thin

These configurations combined with a foil specific race sail are really fast and fun for me. The race configurations are probably 2-5 knots faster than the GTR/Ezzy combos. I feel like it is very close to my fin speeds (don't really know, don't have a GPS yet) but against fin sailors I know I am competitive reaching and over a course as long as I fly my jibes I can pull ahead easily. The race sails are bigger and heavier obviously but in some ways using a more efficient and faster foil is easier as its easier to transfer power to the foil and just go faster rather than opening the sail and having to move your body. It feels more like traditional windsurfing than using low aspect foil w/ tiny soft sails.

I find the SB foils to be superbly engineered compared to other brands. Sure it was a big investment, but I will get years of enjoyment out of this system with potentially many 100s of sessions.

I have sold off all my fin gear and am foiling full time now, not looking back!!! It has easily quadrupled my water time.

Other details

me: 178 CM, 90 KGs
boards: Exocet RF 91 and custom Roberts GT (~78cm)
dog: Bernese mountain dog, super goofy version

Thank you, this is a great breakdown of setup and windspeed for someone very close to me in weight.

Select to expand quote

tswei99 said..
I've got the SB system with a range of options I use based on conditions and what mood I am in. After learning on SSi76 and a couple free ride foils I was wanting more speed so I took the plunge and got myself:

Fuses - 95+, 105+, 115+
Front Wings - 650, 725, 800
Tail wings - 330, 255(-2), 255(-2) thin
IQ Mast

So for easy free riding, I have Ezzy Hydras and use the GTR configuration 800/95+/330 w/ -1.0 shim. This works well for all around reaching in the 12-25 knot range with 4.0-7.0 Hydra. I also use these sails w GTR configuration when its gusty or up 'n down as its easier to manage the sail, or when I just want to relax and cruise.

For speed and free race applications, I have Point 7 F1 foil slalom sails in 6.7 and 7.7

For 12-18 knots I use the 7.7 with 725/115+/255 with 0 shim
For 18-22 knots I use the 6.7 with 650/105+/255 with +0.5 shim
above 22 knots I release the tail to 0.0 and switch to the 255 thin

I am now used to get comfortable rides with 115+/800/-255 on FMX slalom 91 but I felt 105 slippery when I tried briefly. How do you feel riding 650 and 725 with 115+/255 for >20 knots of wind on your exocet 91 board?