It also looked to me that there was some decent chop and this had an effect on the fin as well, I guess that's part of the advantage of a more upwind course if they're on a foil.

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PhilUK said..

Dishpet said..

duzzi said..

Dishpet said..
Day 1 of the Tiberias PWA World Cup in Slalom just ended with Nicolas Goyard pushing the foil as his weapon of choice in 20/25+ knot conditions.

He claimed the first elimination in spectacular fashion. Are fins really getting pushed to the 30+ knot mark in slalom and what do you guys think about this fin/foil format ?

That is far from 25 knots wind speed but the foil advantage is obvious. In the jibes is not a surprise at all, in the straights it is! Goyard barely looses anything in the first straight and can be first at the first mark. after that there is no story, all the fins come to a stop at the first mark and the game is over .

www.windguru.cz/station/1909
This station recorded 27 knot gusts, don't know if it's related to the spot.

Migdal is about 4km away from Tiberias. Looking on google maps, there seems to be larger hills upwind at Tiberias. Migdal has a flat section of land near the beach. So it could be windier there. Or it might not!

Last 2 days wind from Migdal.

You can see the wind variation in the graph and actually much more clearly from the videos over the race course. There were wind stripes of all shapes and strength all over the water in both days. I am sure there were gusts of x strength but lulls were wide. Not sure why they decided to have a race there, it seems an extremely poor choice (politics aside).

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duzzi said..


You can see the wind variation in the graph and actually much more clearly from the videos over the race course. There were wind stripes of all shapes and strength all over the water in both days. I am sure there were gusts of x strength but lulls were wide. Not sure why they decided to have a race there, it seems an extremely poor choice (politics aside).

Reminds me of my home turf. I have a difficult time with it

Foils win again on Day 3 with most competitors using fins.

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NS320 said..
Foils win again on Day 3 with most competitors using fins.

Actually nobody was on fin. Everybody was on foil, in mild conditions.

It looks like the guys using the Starboard foils cannot keep up. In several interviews Starboard riders said the 725 wing is for light wind slalom foil, the 650 for higher wind.The 550 is an older design and not used too much except by Blanca.

Now you see Goyard and Huppert going really fast on the reach. They have been practising a lot for sure! But still the other guys are bloody fast too.Goyard is on the Phantom with a 430 cm2 wing, Huppert on the Loke with a 480 cm2 wing. Both new design high aspect. Fighting that with a 650 wing for pure speed is hard. Goyards gybing is on another level but the speed on the reach really impressed me.

I'm guessing Starboard will have a new wing coming out soon.

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Robertos said..
It looks like the guys using the Starboard foils cannot keep up. In several interviews Starboard riders said the 725 wing is for light wind slalom foil, the 650 for higher wind.The 550 is an older design and not used too much except by Blanca.

Now you see Goyard and Huppert going really fast on the reach. They have been practising a lot for sure! But still the other guys are bloody fast too.Goyard is on the Phantom with a 430 cm2 wing, Huppert on the Loke with a 480 cm2 wing. Both new design high aspect. Fighting that with a 650 wing for pure speed is hard. Goyards gybing is on another level but the speed on the reach really impressed me.

I'm guessing Starboard will have a new wing coming out soon.

Yes the Phantom foils obviously quick but a lot of that is also the rider. There are other guys on Phantom foils who are not at the front. The Phantom 430 is actually the same span as the starboard 650 ( 650mm wide) just higher aspect, which has pro's and con's.
( phantom 550 is 750mm wide)

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duzzi said..

PhilUK said..

Dishpet said..

duzzi said..

Dishpet said..
Day 1 of the Tiberias PWA World Cup in Slalom just ended with Nicolas Goyard pushing the foil as his weapon of choice in 20/25+ knot conditions.

He claimed the first elimination in spectacular fashion. Are fins really getting pushed to the 30+ knot mark in slalom and what do you guys think about this fin/foil format ?

That is far from 25 knots wind speed but the foil advantage is obvious. In the jibes is not a surprise at all, in the straights it is! Goyard barely looses anything in the first straight and can be first at the first mark. after that there is no story, all the fins come to a stop at the first mark and the game is over .

www.windguru.cz/station/1909
This station recorded 27 knot gusts, don't know if it's related to the spot.

Migdal is about 4km away from Tiberias. Looking on google maps, there seems to be larger hills upwind at Tiberias. Migdal has a flat section of land near the beach. So it could be windier there. Or it might not!

Last 2 days wind from Migdal.

You can see the wind variation in the graph and actually much more clearly from the videos over the race course. There were wind stripes of all shapes and strength all over the water in both days. I am sure there were gusts of x strength but lulls were wide. Not sure why they decided to have a race there, it seems an extremely poor choice (politics aside).

Plus fresh water. :(

Another factor why Nic and Will are doing so well on foil is they obviously pushed and trained in much higher winds on foils than the others. So 25 knots plus was no issue.
The other pros, probably after a truck loads of testing made a decision that a fin was faster after 18 odd knots, so they focused their training that way between foil and slapper.
But winds at this event were 7 to 30knts. Catching them out a bit.

This is the breakdown of manufacture (source Nicolas Goyard)

Nico : Phantom
William : Loke
Matteo : starboard
Pierre : Loke
Maciek : Xploder
Enrico : Neilpryde
Basile : Phantom
Ingmar : starboard (but mostly on the fin)
Alex : Phantom
Mateus : starboard
Questel : starboard
Kordel : starboard
Jordy : starboard

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duzzi said..

NS320 said..
Foils win again on Day 3 with most competitors using fins.

Actually nobody was on fin. Everybody was on foil, in mild conditions.

Not according to the race report: Day 3: Fins Fight Back But Goyard & Huppert Continue to Keep Them at Bay, Whilst Oppedal and Jackson Earn First Bullets on World Tour

Here is a link to the complete equipment sheet:
nor.pwaworldtour.com/Israel_2021_equipment

You can see that plenty of top riders had 650 as their smallest wing. Impossible to match the speed of the smaller ones.
Phantom 430
Lok? 450
StarBoard 550 / 650
F4 / NP 560

The NP foils were also fast but seemed to lack control. Al lot of unforced errors for the guys, clearly their level should not make them stand out here (AA, Marotti and Laufer). Especially from Marotti could see his board move a lot on the reaches where the guys on the Lokes and the Phantoms looked like they were on a rail. He also breached a lot.

In the last days you could see that the wind was weaker with bigger holes and more guys were competitive

Interesting that Mortefon has 6.2m as his smallest sail. He has registered 4 slalom sails and 3 foil sails. With Fuerteventura cancelled guess he thinks 6.2m is small enough for the rest of the events.
Goyard has 3 slalom sails and 4 foil sails.

Anyone going to start sailing without an uphaul? I couldn't see any, not even the minimalist style (thin ropes with a couple of knots).

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regal1 said..
Anyone going to start sailing without an uphaul? I couldn't see any, not even the minimalist style (thin ropes with a couple of knots).

Just don't loop it around the bottom, tuck it in the mast sleeve. That way you still have the 'aero gain' as marginal as it is but still have it if it all goes pear shaped.

From what I See, Goyard seems to have adopted a body position much different to other foil sailors, hanging deep below the boom, monkeylike. I've noticed this in some of the Phantom videos before. I'm wondering how long his harness lines must be.

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CJW said..

regal1 said..
Anyone going to start sailing without an uphaul? I couldn't see any, not even the minimalist style (thin ropes with a couple of knots).

Just don't loop it around the bottom, tuck it in the mast sleeve. That way you still have the 'aero gain' as marginal as it is but still have it if it all goes pear shaped.

Been doing this for years on slalom but still keep the rope handy for foiling. I use it too often

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ZeeGerman said..
From what I See, Goyard seems to have adopted a body position much different to other foil sailors, hanging deep below the boom, monkeylike. I've noticed this in some of the Phantom videos before. I'm wondering how long his harness lines must be.

Long. I saw a closeup drone shot and his harness lines were extremely long.

Good viewing if you have a couple of hours to spare

I'm selling a 105 starboard fuselage if anyone's interested...