I would have thought efficacy was the main criterion with these products, not fashion. E.g. the guys with zebra wetsuits don't seem to care what they look like.

Zebra wetsuit plus Costco wavestorm plus shark shield surf sounds like the go! Sign me up

Or even better the original shark shield surf that zapped you in the balls every time you fell off

Cull

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Greenroom said..
Cull

Troll

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jbshack said.
SO do you not think it a massive conflict of interest in testing could occur when one company pays 4 times more than the competitors product

Either way, time will tell

No it won't. Not one developer is willing to jump in the water and prove their product, which they sell to save lives, does what it says it does. I don't mean with the harmless 7 or 8ft whalers and 4ft mennacing wobbegongs but with a hyped up white thats as long and heavy as a ford ranger with a really big mouth thats full of really sharp teeth.

And the reason for that? They all enjoy being alive. Believing in your product and risking your life to make 10's of $M is a pretty big gamble isnt it? If the product is proven to work you wont need to subsidise it. Orders will flow in globally.

I understand what the developers are trying to do and i do think it's great but I have more than enough real world experience to know that fish and sharks often respond very differently to dead food, fake food and live food and thats why i want to see real life testing.

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DARTH said..

Greenroom said..
Cull

Troll

It's my opinion

Hey Everybody, he's ^^^^ got an opinion... Booooo?

What should my opinion be?


Yep, Cull.

If the products work we don't need to kill these animals. They can be a peace brothers.

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JESUSGUS said..
If the products work we don't need to kill these animals. They can be a peace brothers.

clearly our definitions of "works" differ there mate - deters 50 to 60% of great whites for 15 minutes per the various studies is not enough to say this is the full solution. Not by a long shot

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Greenroom said..

DARTH said..

Greenroom said..
Cull

Troll

It's my opinion

Ok then, dumb troll

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Bara said..

JESUSGUS said..
If the products work we don't need to kill these animals. They can be a peace brothers.

clearly our definitions of "works" differ there mate - deters 50 to 60% of great whites for 15 minutes per the various studies is not enough to say this is the full solution. Not by a long shot

Where's is the evidence a cull is the full solution. Hang on I think we've been over this before. I agree to be wrong for the sake of the forum.

Anyway good work Dave

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JESUSGUS said..

Bara said..

JESUSGUS said..
If the products work we don't need to kill these animals. They can be a peace brothers.

clearly our definitions of "works" differ there mate - deters 50 to 60% of great whites for 15 minutes per the various studies is not enough to say this is the full solution. Not by a long shot

Where's is the evidence a cull is the full solution. Hang on I think we've been over this before. I agree to be wrong for the sake of the forum.

Anyway good work Dave

Like talking to a brick wall. never said a cull is the solution. read what i write . nah ahh fark it why bother educating yourself. just stick to your for the sake of the forum smugness and put your head back in the sand. you add nothing to the discussion.

To be honest Bara I never read your quote mate until just now. It's a bit doom and gloom hey. Hope Santa brought you something nice.

JG it might sound like doom and gloom but we need to be very clear with how serious this is.

Both saltwater crocodiles and humpback whales were protected in the early 70's and numbers have now increased significantly. Humpback numbers have gone from 15,000ish to 100,000ish and there were estimated to be under 3000 salties in the NT in 1970. Almost 50 years later there are over 100,000 and is the we can't swim in the majority of waterways in the northern part of our country. I'm no scientist but looking towards 2050 i'm thinking that white shark numbers are going to explode.

I'm not saying a cull is the answer but we do need to start looking towards the future.

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MDSXR6T said..
JG it might sound like doom and gloom but we need to be very clear with how serious this is.

Both saltwater crocodiles and humpback whales were protected in the early 70's and numbers have now increased significantly. Humpback numbers have gone from 15,000ish to 100,000ish and there were estimated to be under 3000 salties in the NT in 1970. Almost 50 years later there are over 100,000 and is the we can't swim in the majority of waterways in the northern part of our country. I'm no scientist but looking towards 2050 i'm thinking that white shark numbers are going to explode.

I'm not saying a cull is the answer but we do need to start looking towards the future.

Fair point mate I see where your coming from.

Why isn't there any video footage of them deterring a great white,Id have thought slipping the board over the side while those two behemoths were circling would be a good idea and if they did lets see the video results,Id also really like to know if the device attracts sharks first but I know thats near impossible to test.Anyway if it gets govt.subsidy ill be getting one for trips up north and to w.a.

Gents everyone knows I think we should knock the problem ones on the head.
ie: the one that has jumped out of the water in Mandurah a dozen times in falcon, it's hanging around and being a nuisance.
There is also the big tagged tiger shark off mullaloo at current it has pinged the receiver half a dozen times in as many days, why there isn't a drum line set at current is ridiculous.
if you go on sharksmart at current there is a million sightings all up n down the coast at current.

However this thread isn't about what I think should happen, it's about rpela.

I think Dave is a champion and certainly on the right path, in the future it is likely that with more design and research these shark repellents may become 100% effective however at current it would be irresponsible to put all of your faith in shark mitigation devices.

It is a fact that the shark shield brand attracts sharks to the general area, this is from dozens of anecdotal reports of abalone divers , spear fishermen, craypot recovery divers.
While these reports are not based on science they have been given by people who use the ocean every day and have done in many cases for decades on end. Their reports and information should be recognised and made publicly available which has not happened.

If I lived in reunion island I would of already bought a rpela unit as it seems effective for the situation they are experiencing.

Shark mitigation and reduction with encounters of humans will only happen if the below activities are initiated.

1) cease all shark cage diving
2) stop feeding great whites from boats ( peanuts)
3) kill sharks that hang out at beaches, ie Mandurah ie wedge
4) stop leasing Australian tuna licences to overseas investors ( fisheries west oz are a pile of dimwits)

5) this is where personal deterrents come in, once the above 4 items are part of beach culture and fisheries have their shiiiit together than there may be genuine benefit from having one.

Closing statement : When my kids are old enough to surf they will have a rpela fitted to their boards as some protection is better than nothing?????
The one thing that I will say is that at least statistically it works some of the time on the big sharks,,,,,,,,
I still want to kill a few sharks

Is there any accurate way to test if the unit is putting out enough current other than putting your hand on the electrode.Like to know especially as mines getting old .

Take it in to Katana

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MDSXR6T said..

I'm not saying a cull is the answer but we do need to start looking towards the future.

From shark huggers are us, the future is having a ocean that is alive kill the sharks kill the ocean its a pretty healthy test of how serious people are about what comes first recreation or conservation.

As for the Repla V2 for those that don't know or didn't read the testing conditions the testing was conducted by bringing in the whites with burley to a surf board with a lump of Tuna attached to it personally I am going to avoid attaching tuna to myself when surfing still each to their own

The electric attracts thing.........supported by old wife's tales and science based rumour. Given sea water is one big conductor then sensing the voltage/current is a non starter possible (fu(ken unlikely) the shark hears the frequency like a radio signal. The white will absolutely hear you paddling long before any of the above just note the correlation and possible causation's.

Ricardo there is a link back in the tread showing just what you asked for cheers ........aah here it is www.instagram.com/p/Brg95dHDZNZ/

Will be holding hands and singing kubiya every full moon if any one interested,

Please find an informative article on how sharks hunt using electrical fields and how sharks prey try to avoid this
www.futurity.org/cuttlefish-cloak-electrical-fields-1060982/

Thanks for the link focus just checked it out, cheers

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Razzonater said..
Please find an informative article on how sharks hunt using electrical fields and how sharks prey try to avoid this
www.futurity.org/cuttlefish-cloak-electrical-fields-1060982/

Razz any info on the distance the shark is picking up the elect field?

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IFocus said..

MDSXR6T said..

I'm not saying a cull is the answer but we do need to start looking towards the future.

From shark huggers are us, the future is having a ocean that is alive kill the sharks kill the ocean its a pretty healthy test of how serious people are about what comes first recreation or conservation.

I don't think we need to send the white shark to extinction but i do think their needs to be a balance between the 2 or else we'll end up with our own official goverment warning page like the NT does and every popular beach along the coast will need to be netted. nt.gov.au/emergency/community-safety/crocodile-safety-be-crocwise

Keep in mind that 10's if not 100's of thousands of 4m+ white sharks need to eat and it's plentiful throughout the inshore waters along our coastline.

What happens to divers, surfers and other water users or is it just a matter of saying tough luck and desparately relying on people like Dave to put every last cent they have into finding a solution?

The only way to bring some balance back without culling is to reduce large scale commercial fishing of our offshore waters such as long lining,.seine netting and the many other forms of fishing that deplete massive amounts of fish from baitfish right up to full size tuna etc.And I'm not talking about commercial fisherman running a trawler out of the local bay,Im talking large scale operations with a flotilla of boats feeding the mothership for onboard processing ready for sale product in huge amounts.No fish out wide g.w.sharks will come inshore for easier pickings such as salmon and tailor schools, used to be just bronzies ripping into salmon
Banning cage diving operations and shark tours would be a good idea as well.

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Ricardo1709 said..
The only way to bring some balance back without culling is to reduce large scale commercial fishing of our offshore waters such as long lining,.seine netting and the many other forms of fishing that deplete massive amounts of fish from baitfish right up to full size tuna etc.And I'm not talking about commercial fisherman running a trawler out of the local bay,Im talking large scale operations with a flotilla of boats feeding the mothership for onboard processing ready for sale product in huge amounts.No fish out wide g.w.sharks will come inshore for easier pickings such as salmon and tailor schools, used to be just bronzies ripping into salmon
Banning cage diving operations and shark tours would be a good idea as well.

Yeah partly agree with you but the big GWs are whale and seal eaters so thats not gonna solve our current problem. Both those food sources are increasing at rapid rates now. In fact doing what you say may make it worse as more juvenile GWs will reach mammal chomping maturity.

Doubt there is much support for whale and seal hunting anymore so just watch all 3 populations explode as effectively there is no management of any of these populations anymore and even suggesting it is akin to climate change denial to the lefties.

Why dont people want dead whales removed from beaches?

Why dont people support the aerial patrols actually doing their job and sounding the sirens when something is spotted?

Why dont people demand that if a ranger is going to close a beach, he should do more than just stick a sign at the beach entrance, he should go notify the surfers in the water? One perfect example was a few months back at Inji's were the chopper noticed two large white sharks, reported them to SLSWA and flew away. No siren. Then the ranger stuck up a sign closing beach and left the 30 or so surfers clueless, until they got out and saw it..Next day same sharks were still in the bay and filmed..


How many dead whales rotting on beaches, really, how can people except that as acceptable

Don't want to "REDUCE" the risk with a device, no worries, but can we at least get agree the basics should be handled better..

Now to add to the mix, baited hooks in some places less then 300m from surfers..Whoopy..In 5 years we have gone backwards maybe 7..

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jbshack said..
Why dont people want dead whales removed from beaches?

Why dont people support the aerial patrols actually doing their job and sounding the sirens when something is spotted?

Why dont people demand that if a ranger is going to close a beach, he should do more than just stick a sign at the beach entrance, he should go notify the surfers in the water? One perfect example was a few months back at Inji's were the chopper noticed two large white sharks, reported them to SLSWA and flew away. No siren. Then the ranger stuck up a sign closing beach and left the 30 or so surfers clueless, until they got out and saw it..Next day same sharks were still in the bay and filmed..


How many dead whales rotting on beaches, really, how can people except that as acceptable

Don't want to "REDUCE" the risk with a device, no worries, but can we at least get agree the basics should be handled better..

Now to add to the mix, baited hooks in some places less then 300m from surfers..Whoopy..In 5 years we have gone backwards maybe 7..

yep we agree the basics are a shmozzle and its not gonna change on clown kelly's watch.

at redgate beach (one of the most popular in the south west with families) the shark warning system was a piece of paper stuck on a post by locals this week. Not the first time either. at least inji had a ranger turn up.

talking out the back yesterday we added up 4 large shark sightings just around margs this week that wont appear anywhere officially - just word of mouth.

In recent times whale carcasses have been associated with the majority of great white sightings and beach closures here in the south west. This will only increase each year.

One day we will have to do something a bit more radical than just closing beaches for months at a time like we did for smiths and yalls last year.

But in the mean time i just dont want to see kelly the clown saying they have done all they can cos they put up a subsidy for devices. They are not a full solution and never can be given they are just better than a flip of a coin level of protection in the studies.

I support the SDLs even though they will probably find an excuse to can them. Reason is its the only way to get some hard numbers on just what is going on with GW numbers here. Fisheries have all but stopped tagging by boat since kelly took over so there no data from that anymore. Forever the marine biologists will give the benefit of the doubt to the shark as thats their paycheck so until we regularly tag and track a decent proportion of the sharks that come here we will never even have agreement on the size of the problem let alone a solution.

And on the baits near surfers forgetaboutit. way more burley coming from the cray pots this time of year there and kellys about to increase them too

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Bara said..

jbshack said..
Why dont people want dead whales removed from beaches?

Why dont people support the aerial patrols actually doing their job and sounding the sirens when something is spotted?

Why dont people demand that if a ranger is going to close a beach, he should do more than just stick a sign at the beach entrance, he should go notify the surfers in the water? One perfect example was a few months back at Inji's were the chopper noticed two large white sharks, reported them to SLSWA and flew away. No siren. Then the ranger stuck up a sign closing beach and left the 30 or so surfers clueless, until they got out and saw it..Next day same sharks were still in the bay and filmed..


How many dead whales rotting on beaches, really, how can people except that as acceptable

Don't want to "REDUCE" the risk with a device, no worries, but can we at least get agree the basics should be handled better..

Now to add to the mix, baited hooks in some places less then 300m from surfers..Whoopy..In 5 years we have gone backwards maybe 7..

yep we agree the basics are a shmozzle and its not gonna change on clown kelly's watch.

at redgate beach (one of the most popular in the south west with families) the shark warning system was a piece of paper stuck on a post by locals this week. Not the first time either. at least inji had a ranger turn up.

talking out the back yesterday we added up 4 large shark sightings just around margs this week that wont appear anywhere officially - just word of mouth.

In recent times whale carcasses have been associated with the majority of great white sightings and beach closures here in the south west. This will only increase each year.

One day we will have to do something a bit more radical than just closing beaches for months at a time like we did for smiths and yalls last year.

But in the mean time i just dont want to see kelly the clown saying they have done all they can cos they put up a subsidy for devices. They are not a full solution and never can be given they are just better than a flip of a coin level of protection in the studies.

I support the SDLs even though they will probably find an excuse to can them. Reason is its the only way to get some hard numbers on just what is going on with GW numbers here. Fisheries have all but stopped tagging by boat since kelly took over so there no data from that anymore. Forever the marine biologists will give the benefit of the doubt to the shark as thats their paycheck so until we regularly tag and track a decent proportion of the sharks that come here we will never even have agreement on the size of the problem let alone a solution.

And on the baits near surfers forgetaboutit. way more burley coming from the cray pots this time of year there and kellys about to increase them too

At the risk of starting a full on argument again. WHY if people agree with my points, as you just said you do, is there no pressure to do anything about sorting those issues WHy just except it

I sat in a meeting held by Dave Kelly, he told us (about 50 or so) that he was only doing the SDL trial as a measure to relieve political pressure from a small vocal group and the Federal Liberal government. At the time he had just announced the trial publically and they had zero idea on how or what to do. Hence why it's still going through the stages, well after the trial was meant to start. But he also made comment that since making the announcement the political heat had already subsided completely. So they have already had a win.

Libby Mettam was using the "Lack or refusal" of the SDL trial to make the local Labour team uncomfortable but since they announced they'll do one, she has lost her argument and the pressure has dropped. Yet nothing, in fact the SDL trial (That was promised to start on the 1/1/19) is now being referred to the EPA for possible assessment, no contractor has been awarded and still yet to be trained by fisheries. It's just dragging on and nothing is changing. Oh except again, no political pressure on Labour. Why hurry it along, truth is once the weather turns remember the contractor will only be paid on days he sets the lines for more than 5 hours, so in winter many days they will go unpaid. But as i pointed out, there's no hurry, no political pressure so why should their be..

Why not people have a united voice, saying what good is a warning system (ie tagging and detection) if the warnings don't make it to the surfers in the water? What good is the point in warning people of sharks in the area, that are drawn to that location by a dead and decaying whale..

Again if you support the SDL trial, baited hooks less than a few hundred meters from surfers, that's fine, i don't BUT we can agree the basics need doing better and call for that as a united voice..