Or we can just agree on the most effective solution - a cull.

It's interesting the same debate going on in the Territory about the saltwater crocs
Population has gone from about 3000 in the 70s to about 100,000 today due to the protection in place
Too dangerous to swim in the rivers.
I think trying to play God creates a serious inbalance in the ecosystem.
Policy makers wouldn't have a clue what damage they are doing
To them it's all about creating the illusion of being proactive but not jeapordising any votes.

I guess I am part of that small vocal group in the south west that so annoyed clown Kelly. Awesome.

We demanded alot more than just SDLs. We wanted effective warning systems and the timely removal of dangerous sharks and whale carcasses to name a few but we kept hitting the lack of "scientific evidence" brick wall that Kelly hid behind.

Without an effective tagging program in WA he and others can continue to hide behind it. The boat based tagging program was all but stopped to help with this charade. Politics at it's worst.

The SDL program if it ever gets off the ground properly is one way to stop the lack of scientific evidence hidey games they want to play.

Over time it would show with some scientific rigour how many sharks we are dealing with, how rapidly the population is growing and if they are transitory or territorial in our waters.ie the same info nsw is furiously gathering.

The political football that this has become would largely stop with hard scientific evidence. Eg if the tagging when matched up to the DNA sampling showed what we already know anecdotally ie that we have a rapidly recovering population of maturing GWS then INACTION would become impossible to defend.

That said I fully expect Kelly to can this trial the first chance he gets. They don't want the truth on this as it is problematic for where they are now wedged between libs and the greens on this issue.

Yeah things have gone a bit quiet politically but that's basically down to a lack of recent attacks after the pressure release of agreeing to the SDL trial. There have been quite a few close calls but so far we have been lucky.

Its absolutely sickening but the next few innocent deaths are what it will take to push this back into the uncomfortable area for Kelly and Mcclowan again. If the attacks are in the labor heartland city seats rather than the lib held south west then even more so.

The politics on this just makes me sick.

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TimKay said..
It's interesting the same debate going on in the Territory about the saltwater crocs
Population has gone from about 3000 in the 70s to about 100,000 today due to the protection in place
Too dangerous to swim in the rivers.
I think trying to play God creates a serious inbalance in the ecosystem.
Policy makers wouldn't have a clue what damage they are doing
To them it's all about creating the illusion of being proactive but not jeapordising any votes.

I agree in most of what you posted. The big difference is that with crocs they have reasonable research that has shown a growth in croc numbers. The issue is with Great Whites there is no such science. It's all just anecdotal.

Hey JB, how long have you been surfing? Your last comment makes me wonder, did you start surfing when your daughter showed an interest or something. Not putting you down mate, I reckon your an alright bloke and I also agree with some of the points you have echoed. Even guys I've admired like Tom Carrol have your kind of outlook in regard to sharks & I found myself debating him on his brother Nicks Eastern state online disscussion a couple of years ago after the Ballina revolt.

I ask because most people around my age (47) who have surfed about 35 years know what it was like to go surfing rarely even thinking about the possibility of sharks yet alone having to evacuate the water because of them. I grew up in Perth, before moving to Margs at 22. Living there till I was 27 & heading East across the Nullabor surfing South Oz spots notorious for being sharky. Through this time, about 17 years of regular time in the water, I...nor anyone I knew personally had felt the need to evacuate the ocean due to the presence of a shark of any description. Mind you by this time Whaling had ended about 20 years earlier & the protection of great whites began a year later.

The first time I was ever confronted with the thought was when a bloke informed me paddling from Cactus main break to Caves was a really bad idea coz there is a breeding ground between. That was 22 years ago. Not much happened after that until I started to notice how the frequency of shark attacks escalated.

Now every year...with increasing frequency I have had to vacate the water. Not because an App has started beeping or something. But because a shark has actually been sighted in immediate proximity to our location.

Great whites were originally protected based on the decreased observations of fisherman, not someone with some BS degree declaring them to have more than less than a clue. Fishermen, surfers and plenty of other people have noticed the increasing number of sharks, its way past the time to reconsider our actions based upon the same civil observation.

The problem these days is the propaganda that has been put forward to protect these creatures over all others, including humans in most cases and this needs to change. The current measures are nothing less than a time bomb, no amount of wasted tax $ on government back patting advertising will make a change other than effective strategies to provide safety to our people. To our children.

JB, fark science mate. The evidence is right there in front of us, we can see it with our own eyes far too frequently for my liking. We should be far more concerned about plastics finding their way into the ocean than protecting problem sharks.

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MickPC said..
Hey JB, how long have you been surfing? Your last comment makes me wonder, did you start surfing when your daughter showed an interest or something. Not putting you down mate, I reckon your an alright bloke and I also agree with some of the points you have echoed. Even guys I've admired like Tom Carrol have your kind of outlook in regard to sharks & I found myself debating him on his brother Nicks Eastern state online disscussion a couple of years ago after the Ballina revolt.

I ask because most people around my age (47) who have surfed about 35 years know what it was like to go surfing rarely even thinking about the possibility of sharks yet alone having to evacuate the water because of them. I grew up in Perth, before moving to Margs at 22. Living there till I was 27 & heading East across the Nullabor surfing South Oz spots notorious for being sharky. Through this time, about 17 years of regular time in the water, I...nor anyone I knew personally had felt the need to evacuate the ocean due to the presence of a shark of any description. Mind you by this time Whaling had ended about 20 years earlier & the protection of great whites began a year later.

The first time I was ever confronted with the thought was when a bloke informed me paddling from Cactus main break to Caves was a really bad idea coz there is a breeding ground between. That was 22 years ago. Not much happened after that until I started to notice how the frequency of shark attacks escalated.

Now every year...with increasing frequency I have had to vacate the water. Not because an App has started beeping or something. But because a shark has actually been sighted in immediate proximity to our location.

Great whites were originally protected based on the decreased observations of fisherman, not someone with some BS degree declaring them to have more than less than a clue. Fishermen, surfers and plenty of other people have noticed the increasing number of sharks, its way past the time to reconsider our actions based upon the same civil observation.

The problem these days is the propaganda that has been put forward to protect these creatures over all others, including humans in most cases and this needs to change. The current measures are nothing less than a time bomb, no amount of wasted tax $ on government back patting advertising will make a change other than effective strategies to provide safety to our people. To our children.

JB, fark science mate. The evidence is right there in front of us, we can see it with our own eyes far too frequently for my liking. We should be far more concerned about plastics finding their way into the ocean than protecting problem sharks.

Not sure of the relevance but most of my life. The funny part is the only real shark issues i ve ever known would have been may 30 plus years ago. Surfing down the south coast of NSW north of Wolly was at times very sketchy. A tiger followed us all the way in from a offshore reef northern side of Rotto 31 years ago, Maybe 34 years ago i had a large shark chase us out north of Margies and that's about it.. A few smaller tigers and bronzies, but never bothered to get out. Ive also surfed with whales, killer whales, turtles and seals.

Have i seen a change in all that time, hell yes, 30 plus years ago, id surf with who ever went with me mostly. These days, you'd struggle find a clean spot even the remotest spot with less a small crowd of around 20 plus. That many eyes on the water, im not surprised. We used to spend weeks on end camping at Melrose, surf most times with just three or four guys, if that. What's the crowds like these days? On a good day that is? Of Course things have changed. We used to surf Strickos with maybe 6 people, whats the crowd like now?

Sharks don't really bother me, i've taken steps to sort that, but it's MY opinion that sharks have definitely changed. Staying in close, staying in the areas longer than previously and approaching boats as they have been taught they'll get an easy feed.

Propaganda you say, well the anti vaxers will use the same argument, yet the science still tells us it safer to vaccinate..Im sorry but just because the science doesn't suit you, that doesn't make it wrong.

Why bother about plastic in the ocean? if you not interested in preserving the ocean anyway..? Your right we do have different opinions, but mine is based on what science and the experts say.

www.nespmarine.edu.au/document/national-assessment-status-white-sharks

No science in numbers of whites up and down the coast?
therefore can we assume they are plentiful and remove them from the protected list?
agree with mickpc prior to Ken crew sharks were not even thought of as a worry. Would regularly surf cathedrals on rotto at sun down or big rock down south without a care in the world. No way I would do that now even with a zapper in my board

The relevance/point I made JB is that prior to fishing restrictions being made for whales/sharks we did not have the problem we have now. Although you do make a good point regarding the change in shark behaviour which is clearly a result of change in human/shark interaction ie shooting/catching the barstards vs chumming the water and bloody feeding them...I think the ability to think for oneself rather than waiting for a scientific report to muddy the water is highly beneficial. The other point I made was civil observation was good enough to bring about change in the past, it should also be good enough now given no further scientific breakthroughs can be said to dictate otherwise.

If anyone's interested I could come up with a long and complicated mathematical formula to prove the surf is less crowded today than 20 years ago

Two things bj:

- I'm fairly sure a few years ago you made several comments in line with Mick's question - that you hadn't really surfed for many years and only recently took it up again for your kids. Can't be bothered searching. I may be wrong.

- your behaviour isn't scientific. You love invoking the "science" catchphrase and yet a lot of your arguments ignore science and follow emotion. Exhibit 1: the most comprehensive study on shark repellant devices showed rpela1 was for all intents and purposes useless and the competitor's product was the only one that showed some benefit. And yet you constantly badmouth them and only support rpela based purely on a personal relationship. That's not science.

You love invoking support for Dave as a reason to support rpela. I'm sure you know the son of the other product owner was a local surfer for many years and spent more time in the water than most. Surfed better than most too.

I like Dave. I also like the other kid. Neither relationship would factor into any purchasing decision I would make.

the irony in all this is it took basically anecdotal evidence only to place the great white on the endangered list but it will take a decade or three of scientific studies to take it off again.

Not sure who is going to fund those studies though. certainly not WA labor.

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jbshack said..

TimKay said..
It's interesting the same debate going on in the Territory about the saltwater crocs
Population has gone from about 3000 in the 70s to about 100,000 today due to the protection in place
Too dangerous to swim in the rivers.
I think trying to play God creates a serious inbalance in the ecosystem.
Policy makers wouldn't have a clue what damage they are doing
To them it's all about creating the illusion of being proactive but not jeapordising any votes.

I agree in most of what you posted. The big difference is that with crocs they have reasonable research that has shown a growth in croc numbers. The issue is with Great Whites there is no such science. It's all just anecdotal.

You need a new avatar Rodney.

CULL!

The thumbs have spoken and the louder voices of the minority are wrong!

No one can be bothered with arguing with dum**** JB, thats why no further comments on CULL!!!!

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Greenroom said..
The thumbs have spoken and the louder voices of the minority are wrong!

You will have to do it yourself, unless you know something that everyone else dosent.

Enjoy your fishing

Another four pages dedicated to sharks

just got back from Reunion island and caught up with Johanne Defay great chick who rips !!
and installed Rpela housings in her local quiver

Dave any progress on the Gov rebate?

And did you score any waves on Reunion ?

Theirs also footage of Jorgann Couzinet a pro surfer from Reunion popping some big air and rotianons with that you can clearly see his Rpela fitted. Im not sure how to share that video though sorry..

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IFocus said..
Dave any progress on the Gov rebate?

And did you score any waves on Reunion ?

unfortunately very little progress seems they want me to spend more money on more testing any one have a spare 20 K

surfed every day great waves uncrowded !!! love ST LUE especially the middle bowl

I went over after the French pros asked for the systems to be installed in there boards, So Stoked

^^ hey Katana, Did you hang some chum off the back of boards to attract some sharks over there testing?? Or is that just WA practice??

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herbyburger said..
^^ hey Katana, Did you hang some chum off the back of boards to attract some sharks over there testing?? Or is that just WA practice??

na fraid not mate , we didn't do any testing in Reunion with baits
the only place where baits and boards were used was at 200miles of the coast of Mexico in Guadalupe

Why then is there articals in the media stating otherwise, eg Salisbury Island, Esperance.
Repela hung bait off the back of boards to attract a shark bite.

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herbyburger said..
Why then is there articals in the media stating otherwise, eg Salisbury Island, Esperance.
Repela hung bait off the back of boards to attract a shark bite.

I think you actually know the answer but in case. They will use baits when they are conducting research. IE testing the product for scientific papers, product development that type of thing.

The recent trip to Reunion Dave didn't obviously do any testing, from all accounts all he did was surf (good luck to him).

Rpela when tested of Salisbury Island, Guadalupe, Neptune Island whenever they need to be able to attract the shark to approach the board. Remember once it come sin for a sniff, it gets a virtual punch in the nose, so the bait motivates the sharks to re approach.

The testing at Neptune they not only had bait hung on boards, they had burley freely flowing, even ACDC blaring underwater, not exactly what you'd consider "Normal" conditions.

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katana said..

herbyburger said..
^^ hey Katana, Did you hang some chum off the back of boards to attract some sharks over there testing?? Or is that just WA practice??

na fraid not mate , we didn't do any testing in Reunion with baits
the only place where baits and boards were used was at 200miles of the coast of Mexico in Guadalupe

Why tell porkies then??
Was any of the local Abolone divers/ surfing community aware of what you were up to in Espy.? That's right on the doorstep of places that people have been bitten and taken. Not a smart move to be Burleying up intensionally to attract sharks to surfboards not only to mention being very insensitive to the local environment and also people and families that have been taken in that area, which authority's allowed this 'Research' to go ahead???

Herby burger as in Bert Burger of Sunova?

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herbyburger said..

katana said..

herbyburger said..
^^ hey Katana, Did you hang some chum off the back of boards to attract some sharks over there testing?? Or is that just WA practice??

na fraid not mate , we didn't do any testing in Reunion with baits
the only place where baits and boards were used was at 200miles of the coast of Mexico in Guadalupe

Why tell porkies then??
Was any of the local Abolone divers/ surfing community aware of what you were up to in Espy.? That's right on the doorstep of places that people have been bitten and taken. Not a smart move to be Burleying up intensionally to attract sharks to surfboards not only to mention being very insensitive to the local environment and also people and families that have been taken in that area, which authority's allowed this 'Research' to go ahead???

Okay so to clarify. Firstly zero burly was used at Salisbury island. (Actually burly was only ever used at Neptune Island, im sure you're aware of the cage diving industry).

As for the notifying the Abb divers, yes, 100% that was part of the condition of Dave's permit. So the head of the Abalone industry was fully notified, in fact Marc Payne spent much of his time paddling around in his boat the entire time they were out their. Sadly for them it was the same time that the Discovery film team were out their "fishing and filming" (without any permits) great whites.

Let's remember the distance from shore for Salisbury Island is 163 km. The bait Dave would have used would have been less, than the bait about to be hung by a Ex abb diver less than a few hundred meters from surfers daily down south.

SO Herbyburger to be clear, you must be extremely opposed to the SDL trial if your this outraged at a few baits 163 km for shore..? Right..?

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jbshack said..

herbyburger said..

katana said..

herbyburger said..
^^ hey Katana, Did you hang some chum off the back of boards to attract some sharks over there testing?? Or is that just WA practice??

na fraid not mate , we didn't do any testing in Reunion with baits
the only place where baits and boards were used was at 200miles of the coast of Mexico in Guadalupe

Why tell porkies then??
Was any of the local Abolone divers/ surfing community aware of what you were up to in Espy.? That's right on the doorstep of places that people have been bitten and taken. Not a smart move to be Burleying up intensionally to attract sharks to surfboards not only to mention being very insensitive to the local environment and also people and families that have been taken in that area, which authority's allowed this 'Research' to go ahead???

Okay so to clarify. Firstly zero burly was used at Salisbury island. (Actually burly was only ever used at Neptune Island, im sure you're aware of the cage diving industry).

As for the notifying the Abb divers, yes, 100% that was part of the condition of Dave's permit. So the head of the Abalone industry was fully notified, in fact Marc Payne spent much of his time paddling around in his boat the entire time they were out their. Sadly for them it was the same time that the Discovery film team were out their "fishing and filming" (without any permits) great whites.

Let's remember the distance from shore for Salisbury Island is 163 km. The bait Dave would have used would have been less, than the bait about to be hung by a Ex abb diver less than a few hundred meters from surfers daily down south.

SO Herbyburger to be clear, you must be extremely opposed to the SDL trial if your this outraged at a few baits 163 km for shore..? Right..?

Well we do live in the age of outrage