For you WA guys who are new around these parts and want to support local, forum member katana hand-shapes his AFAIK. Pretty sure he glasses and does the works. You can go and see him at work and have a chat. I get mine from someone else, but if I was looking to switch shapers he'd be a worthy option. Makes shorties and longboards, even SUPs if you're that way inclined. Epoxy, PU, whatever.

It might not sound like it, but im all for quality hand shaped boards here in Australia, my point is that im not going to pay $850 for a DHD that Darren Handley has never touched or never even knew i ordered it. If he actually shaped the board, then i would pay that price + more. there should be a price for a hand shaped board & a lower price for an Aussie "pop out" and the "pop out" should be considerably less.

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McDougal said..

It might not sound like it, but im all for quality hand shaped boards here in Australia, my point is that im not going to pay $850 for a DHD that Darren Handley has never touched or never even knew i ordered it. If he actually shaped the board, then i would pay that price + more. there should be a price for a hand shaped board & a lower price for an Aussie "pop out" and the "pop out" should be considerably less.

Oops bought a Brand new 8' Hot Tamale board today. Now I'm guessing its not the best quality but hey i paid $200
Thats cheap In my books.

My daughter is going to love it..

^^^
Where did you get it JB? There fish looks good too.

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McDougal said..

It might not sound like it, but im all for quality hand shaped boards here in Australia, my point is that im not going to pay $850 for a DHD that Darren Handley has never touched or never even knew i ordered it. If he actually shaped the board, then i would pay that price + more. there should be a price for a hand shaped board & a lower price for an Aussie "pop out" and the "pop out" should be considerably less.

I tend to agree here but I also disagree.....I think that as a consumer you should get the benefit of economies of scale but I also see how the producer should get to benefit off being more efficient with his production run because he has done his homework well. In general I do think that they take the piss so I am happy not to support them. If you have a look at people like Katana or Josh Dowling who embrace technology and provide you with a quality hand made product then its hard to understand why those other guys prices are so high.

In terms of your previous comment about shaping machines and 20 mins to finish off I have to disagree. Have you ever gone through this process yourself? Yes in theory it takes 20 mins to finish off.....but only if you know what you are doing and can operate like you are on a production line. When I do boards this way it takes a lot longer as you are terrified of farrrking up and not having the experience / knowledge to recover from your disaster. Not too mention using akushaper or 3d shaper - speak to anyone who regularly uses these tools and they will advise you that what you think you are getting out and what you do get out of the CNC machine are different.....it takes time to learn these things - from what it is on the screen to what pops out at the other end. So whilst your 20 mins may seem fair and correct if you are a pro from my personal experience its not. Yes I could rush one through in 20 minutes.....but I bet ya its far from symmetrical and accurate. It would be a dogs breakfast And if you are going to spend all that time shaping your board post the CNC machine then you should glass it yourself then you get to sand it back and finish it - saves you loads of dosh. If you hire out the glassing your backyard boarding building costs will double easily.....if not triple.

I own a CI POD - it came from a CNC machine, a 20 min finish and some light glassing......great board.....but when you look at it closely there are loads of in-consistencies with it.....especially on the rails through the tail. At first I did not notice these imperfections but once a friend of mine who has been shaping boards for 20 plus years saw it he picked it up within 10 seconds of touching the board for the first time. Since these issues were pointed out to me I have spent a lot of time looking at boards my mates boards from other 'renowned shapers' and its amazing when you compare the craftsmanship to the locally produced board. Sadly I am not Kelly Slater so I am not really going to ever pick up the performance differences from these imperfections but I do notice them.........and I work in an office during the day and have only recently started making my own boards.

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Ctngoodvibes said...
^^^
Where did you get it JB? There fish looks good too.

i dont really understand.

whats the real difference....
if you buy a board shaped by a machine (that has had a human punch the digits in) or if you have a local shaped board??

If the shape works for you, and you only then its good.
then its all that should matter.

I have both local and big names and both hold their own in different conditions.

Get over the whole local only thing.

i bet you all drive VW and volvos anyway.

nah toyota all the way dude
agree with ya though - as long as the board works thats all that matters

This topic started out as something and became something else.

I think the reason being is because the topic hits at the heart of integrity in surfing.

Are you getting good quality with these OS boards? Are scamers hijacking the surfboard industry to make lots of quick ca$h? Are trusted board brands having their trading name trashed?

Are we scrap heaping the shapers' that have made our boards for the last 40 years?

It seems surfboards are important to us and a local shaping industry is worth standing up for. Unfortunately cheaper prices control consumer spending. I don't get upset about anything else I buy, but somehow this issue seems closer to home. Will we see these shapers' who are skilled tradespeople disappear in the next 10-20 years? Who's teaching the young people how to shape?

I think every board should have on it some kind of mark that states it was wholly made in Australia. If it doesn't have that then you know, that what your buying wasn't.

As a consumer my power lies in what I purchase.

I think it is an important issue and hopefully the surfing community will become more astute, knowing what they are buying.

I'll get off my soapbox now. hehe

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chrispychru said..
What gives me the sh1ts are the big boys who charge a 1000 only to have some ghost shaper doing it. Now that sucks.

WELL SAID!!

I am quite suprised that my short post, which was only intended to say that liquid lines were in my local shop and looked good, caused this much debate. Personally, I believe the local shaper will always exist in some form to service the real surfers. Most of the serious surfers I know wouldn't buy a overseas pop out unless it was a summer grovel board or something they don't care to much about but just wanna try. For me the liquid lines gliding fish would be a cheap way to test how I like short high volume boards without a massive price tag. My boards for real waves, like most surfers, will always be from a good shaper.

One thing no has mentioned.
What do the youngsters want?
They are the ones that will be buying boards in the future.
Do they give a fark where any of their stuff is made?

They want whatever quikripabong tell them they want. And unfortunately the driving force behind corporates like them is the mighty dollar.

I can't believe that crew pay a grand for a brand name pop out with an eggshell glass job. A PU hand cut and glassed by my shaper starts under $600, you do the math on these corporate ****ers profit margins, especially once you factor in economies of scale and an Asian workforce. I refuse to support the bastards, just on principle.

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smicko said..

They want whatever quikripabong tell them they want. And unfortunately the driving force behind corporates like them is the mighty dollar.

I can't believe that crew pay a grand for a brand name pop out with an eggshell glass job. A PU hand cut and glassed by my shaper starts under $600, you do the math on these corporate ****ers profit margins, especially once you factor in economies of scale and an Asian workforce. I refuse to support the bastards, just on principle.

good post

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smicko said..
They want whatever quikripabong tell them they want. And unfortunately the driving force behind corporates like them is the mighty dollar. I can't believe that crew pay a grand for a brand name pop out with an eggshell glass job. A PU hand cut and glassed by my shaper starts under $600, you do the math on these corporate ****ers profit margins, especially once you factor in economies of scale and an Asian workforce. I refuse to support the bastards, just on principle.

I feel that way about most products for sale these days.
Not just surfboards.
If you only apply this moral high ground to surfboards then....!

I buy Australian made wherever I can afford to, our fruit n veg comes from the local growers market, not as pretty as colesworths produce but tastes better. Our meat what little we buy, we source from our local butcher, usually t bone which I then cut into an eye fillet and sirloin. Choose your steaks carefully and you lose minimal bone weight and get two $40/kg cuts for $20/kg. Couple of times a year we'll get a whole lamb/sheep butchered at $7kg or go farm direct to a mate and edumacate our kids about where meat really comes from. From start to finish.

One thing I won't do is support Australian retailers and wholesalers who import product and then try to flog it to me at ****ing ridiculous profit margins. They can go and roger themselves.

My shaper surfs.
His ghost shaper/apprentice surfs.
The guy that glasses my board surfs
The sander surfs; even the grom that sweeps the floor surfs!

Old mate O/S doesn't surf. He can't refine my shape. He can't put edge where I want it. He can't discuss plug placement for me. And he doesn't indulge in my shaping design ideas.

As far as using a cnc/aku/aps machine;guys that are commenting on it as being a "pop out" option, you're not very educated or informed about how design or surfboard factories work. Profilers have been around since the 60's.
Go spend a day at a shapers and see what goes down. Then hire a bay and do it yourself including downloading your O so easy designed computer shape.
And if you want your "board from scratch" I'm sure you can get one; but you'll be the first one to whinge about the time it took to be completed!

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joeyjojo said...
My shaper surfs.
His ghost shaper/apprentice surfs.
The guy that glasses my board surfs
The sander surfs; even the grom that sweeps the floor surfs!

Old mate O/S doesn't surf. He can't refine my shape. He can't put edge where I want it. He can't discuss plug placement for me. And he doesn't indulge in my shaping design ideas.

As far as using a cnc/aku/aps machine;guys that are commenting on it as being a "pop out" option, you're not very educated or informed about how design or surfboard factories work. Profilers have been around since the 60's.
Go spend a day at a shapers and see what goes down. Then hire a bay and do it yourself including downloading your O so easy designed computer shape.
And if you want your "board from scratch" I'm sure you can get one; but you'll be the first one to whinge about the time it took to be completed!

So if factory A in Australia is using cnc and Factory B in China is using cnc machine. Both being ghost finished, then glassed. Why is the Chinese board a pop out and the Australian one not?

Im not **** stirring at all. or maybe just a little bit either way with the introduction of shaping machines the price of boards should go down. not UP. it has enabled the shapers to "pop out" many more boards per day and has taken the heart and soul from shaping.
So i dont think that imported boards (not all) is a bad thing for the surfboard industry in Australia. dont get me wrong when i want a performance board i will always use my shaper, but if your after a fish/fun board for those smaller days, give me an import for under $400.

Here is my very rough calculation of what a board would cost me to shape. - please correct me if im wrong
blank + shaping $70 - $100?? i could be wrong
finishing 20 minutes of my time
Glassing/fin boxes/leash plug $220 - $250?

So you can shape a board for $350 (i think it would be closer to $300, less for the big companies)

Why are big surfboard companies charging $800 - $1000 for a board.

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smicko said..

They want whatever quikripabong tell them they want. And unfortunately the driving force behind corporates like them is the mighty dollar.

I can't believe that crew pay a grand for a brand name pop out with an eggshell glass job. A PU hand cut and glassed by my shaper starts under $600, you do the math on these corporate ****ers profit margins, especially once you factor in economies of scale and an Asian workforce. I refuse to support the bastards, just on principle.

And their boardies, smicko??

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McDougal said..

joeyjojo said...
My shaper surfs.
His ghost shaper/apprentice surfs.
The guy that glasses my board surfs
The sander surfs; even the grom that sweeps the floor surfs!

Old mate O/S doesn't surf. He can't refine my shape. He can't put edge where I want it. He can't discuss plug placement for me. And he doesn't indulge in my shaping design ideas.

As far as using a cnc/aku/aps machine;guys that are commenting on it as being a "pop out" option, you're not very educated or informed about how design or surfboard factories work. Profilers have been around since the 60's.
Go spend a day at a shapers and see what goes down. Then hire a bay and do it yourself including downloading your O so easy designed computer shape.
And if you want your "board from scratch" I'm sure you can get one; but you'll be the first one to whinge about the time it took to be completed!

So if factory A in Australia is using cnc and Factory B in China is using cnc machine. Both being ghost finished, then glassed. Why is the Chinese board a pop out and the Australian one not?

Good call on that one McDougal!
If a preshape is machined, it doesn't make it a pop out!

The term came from back in the day when a board was pulled, or "popped out", straight from a mould (not shaped) and then glassed with wood laminates, car paint etc. surf tec, bic and nsp have examples of this.



The Aust shaping industry started using the whole POP OUT thing as propaganda for any thing that came from china or Thailand.
Not having a go at anyone for there choices of what they want to ride. If your budget dictates you buy a cheaper board and it suits your needs, go for it.
But don't start comparing apples with oranges,especially with board program's and pre shapes. you'll find that almost all the top level shapers use a pre shape program. A lot even admit that there hand shaped from scratch boards were asymmetrical and all over the place. Maurice Coles reverse vee board was a mistake that he gave to curren at sunset?
I just prefer the accuracy and versatility that my local manufacturer can give me. I don't want to loose that because he has to get another job because some guy brought a container load of boards and sells them cheap after they didn't sell after the summer rush.
That's we're a lot of the disdain comes from!

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McDougal said..

Im not **** stirring at all. or maybe just a little bit either way with the introduction of shaping machines the price of boards should go down. not UP. it has enabled the shapers to "pop out" many more boards per day and has taken the heart and soul from shaping.
So i dont think that imported boards (not all) is a bad thing for the surfboard industry in Australia. dont get me wrong when i want a performance board i will always use my shaper, but if your after a fish/fun board for those smaller days, give me an import for under $400.

Here is my very rough calculation of what a board would cost me to shape. - please correct me if im wrong
blank + shaping $70 - $100?? i could be wrong
finishing 20 minutes of my time
Glassing/fin boxes/leash plug $220 - $250?

So you can shape a board for $350 (i think it would be closer to $300, less for the big companies)

Why are big surfboard companies charging $800 - $1000 for a board.

Can't believe you've suckered me in
Your so off the mark its not funny.
I don't know where you get the whole 20 min shaping thing from. A good guy can scuff out 8 to 12 boards a day.
Add in rent, electricity, insurance, **** ups when some. One complains that there pinstripe s out by 1/8". Consider that there also a w/sale product and that your buying from a retailer with margins
I strongly suggest that you shape your own board next. Just to stick it to the big brand conspiracy!

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McDougal said..
So you can shape a board for $350 (i think it would be closer to $300, less for the big companies) Why are big surfboard companies charging $800 - $1000 for a board.

I backyard/garage shaped an 8' mini mal recently. I got no discount on goods supplied, same as any other one off customer. Materials costs were as follows; Low cost 8'2 blank $86, 4 litres lam resin $58, 4 litres sanding resin $50, 2 layers 6 oz cloth $36, fins and plugs $45, 1 litre acetone $10 = $285 total. I have to pick up the blank myself, but the rest is free delivery. So this doesn't include electricity, sandpaper, brushes and all the other bits and pieces. I have all the other tools (electric planer, drill, surforms, as this is not my first board. But gives you a starting point. Also I have been quoted $160 to have a shortboard blank supplied and machine cut to my specifications using Akushaper.

Cheers

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quirkus said..

smicko said..

They want whatever quikripabong tell them they want. And unfortunately the driving force behind corporates like them is the mighty dollar.

I can't believe that crew pay a grand for a brand name pop out with an eggshell glass job. A PU hand cut and glassed by my shaper starts under $600, you do the math on these corporate ****ers profit margins, especially once you factor in economies of scale and an Asian workforce. I refuse to support the bastards, just on principle.

And their boardies, smicko??

Do I buy their boardies??
Phuck NO! I'd rather poke toothpicks up my japseye than pay a hunj for a pair of boardies.
What a bloody joke that is. My boardies come from Best or Less or preferably the Salvos.

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And their boardies, smicko??

Do I buy their boardies??
Phuck NO! I'd rather poke toothpicks up my japseye than pay a hunj for a pair of boardies.
What a bloody joke that is. My boardies come from Best or Less or preferably the Salvos.

Cool,, I like your style..

Me and my bro did a few backyard shapes in the late 90s and it cost around 200 just for the materials back then. So would be suprised if it wasn't at least double that now.

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jbshack said...

McDougal said..

It might not sound like it, but im all for quality hand shaped boards here in Australia, my point is that im not going to pay $850 for a DHD that Darren Handley has never touched or never even knew i ordered it. If he actually shaped the board, then i would pay that price + more. there should be a price for a hand shaped board & a lower price for an Aussie "pop out" and the "pop out" should be considerably less.

Oops bought a Brand new 8' Hot Tamale board today. Now I'm guessing its not the best quality but hey i paid $200
Thats cheap In my books.

My daughter is going to love it..

Hey JB, I got the same board from the guy at malaga. Perfect for putting my daughter up the front. Can't go wrong for $200

Ive had some insight to how SOME new age shapers work:
1: send your order of boards to old mate who owns a machine
2: pick up your pre shaped blanks from old mate
3: pay some guy minimum wage to ghost finish
4: deliver board to be laminated at another factory
5: pick up finished product
6: Sell product for a minimum profit of $250 (more like $350 +)


And the people that are doing this still call themselves shapers??

My question is, are these guys smarter than the rest?

I also heard that for a store to purchase big name boards wholesale you are still looking at $600 +. So again who is killing the market?

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smicko said.. My boardies come from Best or Less or preferably the Salvos.

What!? Are you some kind of non conformist or something? What's surfing coming to!? Personally I get mine from Lowes for $10. Or a pair of footy shorts.

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McDougal said..

Im not **** stirring at all. or maybe just a little bit either way with the introduction of shaping machines the price of boards should go down.

Maybe your looking at it a little wrong. Could it be that THANKS to shaping machines, prices have only gone up a smaller amount. With out them we could be pay a few thousand for each board