Poor lady. RIP

BUT...... we have legs, and they have fins for a reason. We enter their domain..... they need to eat, we are food IT'S SIMPLE!!

DONT WANT TO GET EATEN??? NO...... !!!!!THEN STAY OUT OF THE OCEAN!!!!

They deserve to live in the same way that we do, the whole ocean is changing and everything is being found in weird places, bait fish in closer
and with that is more food for the seals and other food items for the sharks. We arent on the lunch menu, but we are in their waters....

Do you want to know what the sad part is

Doreen was curious about shark shields, But she had seen conflicting reports from people who (Internet keyboard warriors who claim to be experts but have clearly no clue) who said "They didn't work", "They'd never stop a charging great white"

Now the worst part is that science, (That thing you all turn to when your sick) tells us that a shark shield used correctly would be 90% effective in the case of a charging great white.

So for all you key board warriors who say they don't work, she missed a 90% opportunity to still be alive today thanks to twits like you

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mitchmcm said...
Poor lady. RIP

BUT...... we have legs, and they have fins for a reason. We enter their domain..... they need to eat, we are food IT'S SIMPLE!!

DONT WANT TO GET EATEN??? NO...... !!!!!THEN STAY OUT OF THE OCEAN!!!!

They deserve to live in the same way that we do, the whole ocean is changing and everything is being found in weird places, bait fish in closer
and with that is more food for the seals and other food items for the sharks. We arent on the lunch menu, but we are in their waters....

That old chestnut. It is their ocean but it's ours too. What surfer could face life on dry land?
The only solution in my view is shark deterents and much improved reporting of sightings, so that people can make informed decisions.
Arguing about a cull is pointless - it's not gonna happen.
Eagerly awaiting the results of Rpella independent testing. As said by JB shark shield brand is proven to be mostly effective but their new surfboard tail mount design looks a little bulky still.
RIP to both Ben and Doreen.

Now what jbshack said is pretty sad. What if this lady diver had been wearing a shark sheild. We may have never heard about this unfortunate death.
Hope some key board experts think twice, get there facts up to date , before they bag something that could save a life one day.
If a S sheild works on most attack situations, it would provide better protection than not using one.
When you see a shark of good size in the water close up, I have never been able to work out what they are thinking. If you use a Shark Sheild least you would be sending out a signal that makes them unwelcome around you.

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Ctngoodvibes said..

mitchmcm said...
Poor lady. RIP

BUT...... we have legs, and they have fins for a reason. We enter their domain..... they need to eat, we are food IT'S SIMPLE!!

DONT WANT TO GET EATEN??? NO...... !!!!!THEN STAY OUT OF THE OCEAN!!!!

They deserve to live in the same way that we do, the whole ocean is changing and everything is being found in weird places, bait fish in closer
and with that is more food for the seals and other food items for the sharks. We arent on the lunch menu, but we are in their waters....

That old chestnut. It is their ocean but it's ours too. What surfer could face life on dry land?
The only solution in my view is shark deterents and much improved reporting of sightings, so that people can make informed decisions.
Arguing about a cull is pointless - it's not gonna happen.
Eagerly awaiting the results of Rpella independent testing. As said by JB shark shield brand is proven to be mostly effective but their new surfboard tail mount design looks a little bulky still.
RIP to both Ben and Doreen.

Completely agree, our only REAL option is to make ourselves as safe as possible when entering the ocean. Be that with a gaff helmet if needed, leg rope or even a electronic device.

Also so many other options that can help. First aid training. I have managed to get a local surf club to run a free first aid coarse, for those that don't have it for our local beach.

Id also like to see the helicopters to have loud speakers. We watched this chopper circle just over us for a few minutes trying to work out what it was up too. The only wanting we got was after the police car got lost and pulled into the surf carpark looking for the marina..They still didn't say to clear the water, it was just the young guys who yelled to clear us out. A loud hailer would have made an early 5 minutes out of the water. That could be a lot of time in the water with a big shark.. It took an hour and half before any ranger turned up to clear the beach..

Sometimes JB simple ideas to alleviate risk are right in front of us. Great idea. I think this idea of yours needs to get some legs. There is really no reason why this should not be happening in this day and age. Super idea. Hats off from me.

In my field of work it's about identifying risks and communicating these to people. Often they take no notice - driving through flood waters is a constant battle for us - yet lots of people don't and it enables more resources to help those that need it. Not those that cause it. One would imagine that if a chopper flew over and saw a beast in the area and was able to alert the crew in the water immediately to the danger that most would choose to exit, reducing the likelihood of another person being impacted. Not everyone will. That's human nature. But even if it gets a few out of the firing line that's a great result if you ask me. And for minimal cost and effort. A win win win. Great stuff JB. Your best effort yet on the shark issue if you ask me.

The beach towers in NSW have shark alarms - why would the shark spotters not have them? Amazing

I agree the chopper should have a P A speaker.
I was out surfing earlier in the year they flew over then did a u turn hit the siren buton which cleared the water.
They hovered about a 100 meters away to chase the shark away.
Then came a little closer a looked at the copilot, opened my arms up to indicate was the shark 2 - 3 meters.
Which with experience I can handle a shark that size with a shark sheild and paddle.
If it was bigger with a P A sytsem they could have said"Yeh mate your right!" Under 3mtr.
Or they could tell me "Nah mate this one's a ! Big F*#k! get out of the water!"
I can respect that.
MORAL of the story a P A on the choppers would be good.

Can the choppers and spend the massive dollars on bait more likely. The choppers imo are a feel good thing for people with no idea. Surf around Margs with dark reef patches everywhere as if they can see much, let alone when it's overcast! What a waste of money!

You are never going to be able to reduce the risk everywhere. But if a Chopper is in the area - why not give them a tool to clear the area?

I wear a Gath hat because I have had facial skin removed at Kuta reef! I use a shark sheild because I respect whom I share the ocean with!
Others can do what they like but don't criticize me or others for what we believe may help!
Do what you feel will prolong your love with of the ocean!

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mousetrap said...
Can the choppers and spend the massive dollars on bait more likely. The choppers imo are a feel good thing for people with no idea. Surf around Margs with dark reef patches everywhere as if they can see much, let alone when it's overcast! What a waste of money!

I asked about that because I thought the same and apparently they can see very well on the reefs.

Surprised me.

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thedrip said..

mousetrap said...
Can the choppers and spend the massive dollars on bait more likely. The choppers imo are a feel good thing for people with no idea. Surf around Margs with dark reef patches everywhere as if they can see much, let alone when it's overcast! What a waste of money!

I asked about that because I thought the same and apparently they can see very well on the reefs.

Surprised me.

TBH the choppers have terrible vision. They only detect around 18% of all decoys when tested. BUT still if they could tell us to clear the water when they do see one to would help. We have loads of choppers fly around. This one was a media chopper i assume. It was dark blue in colour with no markings. The scary part is if it was media chopper their likely to wait and film in hope of getting a scoop.

I witnessed many interviews over the last few days. Not one to date, has not been edited in a dramatic way to change the story told.

I really like the idea of first aid training. That is an idea that takes place in the East of Australia. It has further ranging effects, at my local two people have drowned. Both in 2013 one needed resuscitating. Sadly still he didn't make it, the second it wouldn't have helped, but how many major injures do we see that simple first aid could help with. We have had spinal injures once again basic first aid would be useful.

Maybe others could approach a surf club in your area and get that of the ground for your local surfers

The ocean is our environment to look after, but we don't have gills and cant hold our breath very long so we are not designed to be in that environment for very long and should probably look after the thing's that actually live in that environment.
My guess from what I've been privy too is that we will look back in time and see how much of this has been a direct result of a combination of things.

A) the improving numbers of the GW
B) the increase in Super trawler activity.

Regardless there is a requirement to do something. Protecting swimmers is easy, protecting surfers and divers is definitely a challenge. The effort is only applied by politicians when there's a problem, when there's no media attention, there's no action. There needs to be a formal focus group specifically for the Shark issue.

Culls cant happen legally, not yet anyway. until then a management plan can only be developed if the available options are considered, and there are options that the WA govt have not yet considered. I wouldn't be surprised if the fisheries minister is on the phone now, talking to SME's that he wasn't allowed to two weeks ago?

I will touch on one thing already mentioned, heap of my surfing mates are divided on the issue as is the WA community, but what i find most surprising is those that are the most active about something needs to be done, i.e. take em out....not one of them has a shark shield or Zebra wetty, they have this phobia but wont actually protect themselves with whats available.

I find that a bit weird, but then again im a bit weird, so in a weird kinda way that makes sense, if that makes sense?

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PaulyOS said..
Chinese kill millions of small harmless sharks every year by cutting their dorsal fin off and throwing it back in the ocean to slowly die.. But everyone loses their minds when drum lines are put out to stop great whites the size of boats from eating people..

That's what I don't get. Thousands of sharks, dolphins, seals, whales etc get killed each year so we can have soap and other ****, no-one gives a monkeys, kill a dangerous great white and suddenly everyone's an outraged environmentalist. I don't believe in culling, but the try-hard environmentalism is just wank.

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Zed said..

PaulyOS said..
Chinese kill millions of small harmless sharks every year by cutting their dorsal fin off and throwing it back in the ocean to slowly die.. But everyone loses their minds when drum lines are put out to stop great whites the size of boats from eating people..

That's what I don't get. Thousands of sharks, dolphins, seals, whales etc get killed each year so we can have soap and other ****, no-one gives a monkeys, kill a dangerous great white and suddenly everyone's an outraged environmentalist. I don't believe in culling, but the try-hard environmentalism is just wank.

But the drum lines didn't catch any big pigs, right? Just bronzies.

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bene313 said..

Zed said..

PaulyOS said..
Chinese kill millions of small harmless sharks every year by cutting their dorsal fin off and throwing it back in the ocean to slowly die.. But everyone loses their minds when drum lines are put out to stop great whites the size of boats from eating people..

That's what I don't get. Thousands of sharks, dolphins, seals, whales etc get killed each year so we can have soap and other ****, no-one gives a monkeys, kill a dangerous great white and suddenly everyone's an outraged environmentalist. I don't believe in culling, but the try-hard environmentalism is just wank.

But the drum lines didn't catch any big pigs, right? Just bronzies.

No, all tigers, two sting rays and a dolphin.

However the government did manage to kill two great whites in Esperance a few years back and one last week in Mandurah..

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bene313 said..

Zed said..

PaulyOS said..
Chinese kill millions of small harmless sharks every year by cutting their dorsal fin off and throwing it back in the ocean to slowly die.. But everyone loses their minds when drum lines are put out to stop great whites the size of boats from eating people..

That's what I don't get. Thousands of sharks, dolphins, seals, whales etc get killed each year so we can have soap and other ****, no-one gives a monkeys, kill a dangerous great white and suddenly everyone's an outraged environmentalist. I don't believe in culling, but the try-hard environmentalism is just wank.

But the drum lines didn't catch any big pigs, right? Just bronzies.

They only caught tiger sharks.

Pauly and Zed There's a lot that people don't get because theres not a lot of info out there, the problem with the great white is that they are not at a sustainable population yet, not having them around at all would be awesome as far as a lot of people are concerned but, like it or not they play an important role in keeping a safe balance that impacts the general health of the marine ecosystem, yep they are damn dangerous that's for sure, as a motor needs oil an ocean needs GW's as well as healthy populations of all the relevant species in all the right places. Its not hippy or environmentalist Sh8 its science, but unfortunately it is really hard to comprehend .

The thousands of Sharks that are killed for FIN soup, well they aren't great whites, they are not a vulnerable species in most cases and it wouldn't happen in Oz and where there's been evidence of it in the NW some years ago there was a ruckus, just like when they start to have a crack at out turtles and shells. Because the Chinese are knuckle heads doesn't mean we should be.

Have a crack at the bullshark's in my opinion for sure, could easily drop their numbers at the moment without causing an ecosystem break down, no... its not hypocritical to say that, because that's an entirely different population health and distribution. They generally aren't the problem we have in WA though.

As people have pointed out the government can authorise to have a shark that is considered an imminent threat to humans taken out, so the controls are there to protect people if the threat is identified, problem is the systems to identify a potential threat early enough to get a suitable response aren't there. If we get the whole package right it would work as has been demonstrated in some parts of South Africa apparently but i haven't been privy to any final reports of that to substantiate the outcomes.

Problem with Drumline's apart from the fact that they failed 100% to get a GW in the first place is

A) they impact on and kill non target species
B) there is evidence that suggests that they actually bring the sharks closer to the areas we are trying to protect, why put food closer to where we are to attract more to where they wouldn't go otherwise?

Yes there's more GW's now than there were, and this will sound retarded to a lot but there's not yet enough for a truly healthy ocean. I don't think there's going to be a long time before they can manage the population to a sustainable level, that may or may not happen in the future, but simply put its virtually illegal now other than what the government already have the power to do.

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Surf69 said..
Pauly and Zed There's a lot that people don't get because theres not a lot of info out there, the problem with the great white is that they are not at a sustainable population yet, not having them around at all would be awesome as far as a lot of people are concerned but, like it or not they play an important role in keeping a safe balance that impacts the general health of the marine ecosystem, yep they are damn dangerous that's for sure, as a motor needs oil an ocean needs GW's as well as healthy populations of all the relevant species in all the right places. Its not hippy or environmentalist Sh8 its science, but unfortunately it is really hard to comprehend .

The thousands of Sharks that are killed for FIN soup, well they aren't great whites, they are not a vulnerable species in most cases and it wouldn't happen in Oz and where there's been evidence of it in the NW some years ago there was a ruckus, just like when they start to have a crack at out turtles and shells. Because the Chinese are knuckle heads doesn't mean we should be.

Have a crack at the bullshark's in my opinion for sure, could easily drop their numbers at the moment without causing an ecosystem break down, no... its not hypocritical to say that, because that's an entirely different population health and distribution. They generally aren't the problem we have in WA though.

As people have pointed out the government can authorise to have a shark that is considered an imminent threat to humans taken out, so the controls are there to protect people if the threat is identified, problem is the systems to identify a potential threat early enough to get a suitable response aren't there. If we get the whole package right it would work as has been demonstrated in some parts of South Africa apparently but i haven't been privy to any final reports of that to substantiate the outcomes.

Problem with Drumline's apart from the fact that they failed 100% to get a GW in the first place is

A) they impact on and kill non target species
B) there is evidence that suggests that they actually bring the sharks closer to the areas we are trying to protect, why put food closer to where we are to attract more to where they wouldn't go otherwise?

Yes there's more GW's now than there were, and this will sound retarded to a lot but there's not yet enough for a truly healthy ocean. I don't think there's going to be a long time before they can manage the population to a sustainable level, that may or may not happen in the future, but simply put its virtually illegal now other than what the government already have the power to do.

The two points i highlighted are very important points. The work that is completed by the marine science is so hard to read, decipher and digest. That was the key factor i like about Chris Fisher and his organisation. I think they managed to bridge the gap with easy to use information.

Secondly id also have no issue with a cull on bullsharks. You can already see the growth, especially on the swan river. The other one id support is seals. We have more seals locally than ever, what was once a small number at particular times of the year, now have full time large colonies, and that means a constant food source for large sharks..


On a side point Claytons beach has been closed officially for the last two days. No signage though. When i asked the council today why no signage, they said it was up to the surfers to know the current situation via the SLSW twitter feed and we would still be fined if the rangers turned up. No beach warnings

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jbshack said...
However the government did manage to kill two great whites in Esperance a few years back and one last week in Mandurah..

Good. Keep it coming. That means there's 499,997 of them left.

Looks like the surf is gonna be less crowded
so many full quivers, wetsuits, sups etc for sale on gumtree

Not less crowded, just a different kind of crowd our there these days. (According to PerthNow this picture was taken yesterday in Newcastle)

There's drumlines on the Gold Coast and the ocean still looks pretty healthy to me. I'd suggest that the vast majority of water users feel safer because of them too.
I mean honestly, a Great White is a fish - a large, potentially dangerous fish. Would it really be the end of the world if there was something done to protect water users within a km or two of the coast?

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Jakco said..
There's drumlines on the Gold Coast and the ocean still looks pretty healthy to me. I'd suggest that the vast majority of water users feel safer because of them too.
I mean honestly, a Great White is a fish - a large, potentially dangerous fish. Would it really be the end of the world if there was something done to protect water users within a km or two of the coast?

I agree, something needs to be done, so people can feel safe and protected. Drum lines kill too much non target species, not only that, but we tried it over here and it failed.

No attacks for ages where you have drumlines on the Gold Coast for sure but don't forget there's a hell of a lot more beaches over there that don't have drumlines that have never had any attacks either.

As you start heading that far North the risk of GW occurrence are lower anyway from memory? given the range of the mob that transient up and down the eastern seaboard, cant quite recall that detail though

So if it's not yet obvious to all, the drum lines were set out of season as a PR stunt by Western Australia's pathetic premier.. How many Tiger Sharks do you guys reckon would be caught between June and October SW of Perth? Also as I've been led to believe the GWS has a pretty large range, so a shark caught in Perth waters could well be an individual that is prevented from causing a fatality in Albany for example. And seals..well we're just gonna have to harden up and control their populations too! Fish populations may spike and plummet but you can all bet your bottom dollar man won't have trouble keeping those stocks in check. So basically we'll have to possibly clean up a few whale corpses each year as is done anyway and the balance of the ecosystem can continue to progress (as it manages to on land albeit with a hell of a lot more human pressures).

I do think it's a shame that prior to both attacks there were sightings in the very near area and that information was not easily and quickly made available to water users.
Maybe the way to prevent some attacks is just a user friendly, notification sending app away.

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Beelzebub said..
Not less crowded, just a different kind of crowd our there these days. (According to PerthNow this picture was taken yesterday in Newcastle)

That photo is a jaw dropper.....
It's what we don't know that concerns me.

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Surf69 said..
... the problem with the great white is that they are not at a sustainable population yet

They seem to be sustaining themselves just fine.

Yeah, and i guess there lies the issue.

Yeah thats the only way to go about it i think. Us and sharks both deserve a go in the ocean. We need to do our best at preventing attacks rather than removing sharks. Im no greenie but everthing deserves a fair dip (unless you are a fox, rabbit, carp or cane toad...... then watch out).