When ordering my latest board. The 7'6" pictured above I took my favourite 7'6" in and we went over it's good points and where it could be different to suit the design brief I had in mind.
So far so good.
Very handy to be able to take in the current board for the design discussion.

Thats the bonus of talking to the shaper.
Not a grooverhead sales person from some hipster surf shop .

Select to expand quote

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

Select to expand quote

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

Gotta laugh. Flat earthers always say, "It's flat. Do your own research. "
This actually means watching more flat earth videos on You tube

Select to expand quote

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

BTW CF I trimmed those micro biters to the profile you suggested, they actually look half decent. Wont get to give them a bash until Sunday when the swell picks up again. Hoping for 1.5m which will translate to 2 - 3' wave face on sets, but I'll be stuck with all the bloody Sunday drivers

Not to worry, better turning practice for me (or target practice).

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Just find a shaper that understands your not a kid.
Youll be halfway there.

Also. I can tell you shops get a lot of punters that refuse to get the right board that suits their weight and ability.
They just want to get what so and so rides.

You cant blame them for punters stupidity

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Are you really that small minded in your assumptions?

Have you thought old mate might have been a team rider and was getting a new batch ?

Or is it because you are unemployed and broke that you curse anyone that has money to buy what they please...most of your arguments are based on money,and those arguments they are a changing and as predictable as the tides to suit your moments of thought

Look your whole concept is flawed on why your board and ideas are amazing...a five fin board is a compromise on everything and good for nothing except a sales pitch and marketing ploy...it is not new news or hidden,all shapers will say it

The board is either a twin,single, thruster or a quad,twinzer bonzer bkah blah ....but it cannot be all of them without compromising what they actually are...but hey some might call me pedantic ,i sorta thought it would be more i am not stupid because that is how it is...but details,details details

I cannot wait for the long winded rant that i will stop reading after the first two paragraphs because it will end up being more of your delusions and thoughts...

Just playing with ya...everyone knows you are the man,damn you even have shapers scared now that you are exposing them for the frauds that they are

I look forward to the 200 fin plugs you put in your board to make it amazing

Respect bro

Bet this one goes good chrispy

Select to expand quote

laceys lane said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Just find a shaper that understands your not a kid.
Youll be halfway there.

Also. I can tell you shops get a lot of punters that refuse to get the right board that suits their weight and ability.
They just want to get what so and so rides.

You cant blame them for punters stupidity

True that, likely the type of client that walked into the CW shop.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Are you really that small minded in your assumptions?

Have you thought old mate might have been a team rider and was getting a new batch ?

Or is it because you are unemployed and broke that you curse anyone that has money to buy what they please...most of your arguments are based on money,and those arguments they are a changing and as predictable as the tides to suit your moments of thought

Look your whole concept is flawed on why your board and ideas are amazing...a five fin board is a compromise on everything and good for nothing except a sales pitch and marketing ploy...it is not new news or hidden,all shapers will say it

The board is either a twin,single, thruster or a quad,twinzer bonzer bkah blah ....but it cannot be all of them without compromising what they actually are...but hey some might call me pedantic ,i sorta thought it would be more i am not stupid because that is how it is...but details,details details

I cannot wait for the long winded rant that i will stop reading after the first two paragraphs because it will end up being more of your delusions and thoughts...

Just playing with ya...everyone knows you are the man,damn you even have shapers scared now that you are exposing them for the frauds that they are

I look forward to the 200 fin plugs you put in your board to make it amazing

Respect bro

Bro really? I'm not your bro.

Was not a team rider, a mine worker with more money than brains.

Fins this, fins that blah blah blah, yeah I'm having fun dialling in my rides fin combos, get over it.

And lastly I don't recall bagging out shapers. I bag out marketing, I bag out sheep who can't think for themselves and simply lap it all up. I bag out the hypocrisy of shapers using marketing to bag out other shapers.

And I've never claimed that my board was the ducks nuts.

I have clearly stated that for my budget it ticked as many of my wants boxes as I could afford.

Also not bitter or twisted about my financial position or others ability to afford a custom. Just trying to make people think beyond the unsubstantiated claims of performance advantages made by the marketing desk jocks on behalf of shapers.

Because at the end of the day even good old Bob McT tells you that it's all experimentation.

Yeah there are given fundamentals that simply work. The rest is marketing hype.

Sorry, too many words for you again?

Select to expand quote

SP said..



Bet this one goes good chrispy

Where can I buy that board SP?

Select to expand quote

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

And 50% of those shapers market on differentiation.

Selling their take on what does and does not work without a scrap of performance based evidence to support their claims.

So yeah do listen and talk to your shaper, and challenge them to substantiate their claims. To show proof and evidence in place of claims.

I've been there and done that. The shaper will then roll out the reference list of happy clients to convince you that it must be so. And yes it is so for all of those punters who had no other datum to work from.

But then ask the shaper to guarantee that you will get a board that suits you and performs according to your wish list.

That will sort the men from the boys quick smart.

I only know of a couple that do this. Miller SubX fame states that he has replaced boards for clients who where not happy with the outcome. And the guys at Yahoo have loaners of their models that you can ride to see what you like that can then be tweaked to your personal needs.

Theses are shapers that understand the subjective nature of performance and the decision process.

Find a shaper that is willing to guarantee their work. Otherwise head next door.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype and BS.

So contrary to popular opinions I am not blinker visioned, narrow minded, anti custom or shaper.

I'm just not gullible and don't buy into the whole blindly trust your hard earned coin to a shaper BS.

Are we clear now boys and girls?

Bahahaha you talked up the amazing advice you got from the whorehouse and you still bag shapers lol you are that kind of special

Plus you lose all credibility on saying the sub x is a great board...they are pigs

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

And 50% of those shapers market on differentiation.

Selling their take on what does and does not work without a scrap of performance based evidence to support their claims.

So yeah do listen and talk to your shaper, and challenge them to substantiate their claims. To show proof and evidence in place of claims.

I've been there and done that. The shaper will then roll out the reference list of happy clients to convince you that it must be so. And yes it is so for all of those punters who had no other datum to work from.

But then ask the shaper to guarantee that you will get a board that suits you and performs according to your wish list.

That will sort the men from the boys quick smart.

I only know of a couple that do this. Miller SubX fame states that he has replaced boards for clients who where not happy with the outcome. And the guys at Yahoo have loaners of their models that you can ride to see what you like that can then be tweaked to your personal needs.

Theses are shapers that understand the subjective nature of performance and the decision process.

Find a shaper that is willing to guarantee their work. Otherwise head next door.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype and BS.

So contrary to popular opinions I am not blinker visioned, narrow minded, anti custom or shaper.

I'm just not gullible and don't buy into the whole blindly trust your hard earned coin to a shaper BS.

Are we clear now boys and girls?

Roy's long lost cousin ??

Select to expand quote

Ricardo1709 said..
Roy's long lost cousin ??

NA, Roy at least had a clue about what he as talking about.. And his fins were pretty good.

Old mate thinks he is the messiah after being back in the water for a month after 20 year out and is an expert on everything.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..
Bahahaha you talked up the amazing advice you got from the whorehouse and you still bag shapers lol you are that kind of special

Plus you lose all credibility on saying the sub x is a great board...they are pigs

I loose credibility? I wasn't chasing any. Simply stating my experiences and reasoning.

So CW can bag other shapers in an add. And you can call another's shapers boards pigs. And then bag me out when I only comment from experience on what I have ridden and why. And I'm the one who is that kind of special?

Enjoy being in the purple circle of delusion then mate.

How can anyone ascribe any cred to your hypocrisy?

Talk to your shaper dude, talk to your shaper man. But not that one, his boards are pigs. And only this one because all the others don't actually custom, they just paint them pretty.

Any one with any logic and reasoning can see straight through people like you.

Select to expand quote

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

And 50% of those shapers market on differentiation.

Selling their take on what does and does not work without a scrap of performance based evidence to support their claims.

So yeah do listen and talk to your shaper, and challenge them to substantiate their claims. To show proof and evidence in place of claims.

I've been there and done that. The shaper will then roll out the reference list of happy clients to convince you that it must be so. And yes it is so for all of those punters who had no other datum to work from.

But then ask the shaper to guarantee that you will get a board that suits you and performs according to your wish list.

That will sort the men from the boys quick smart.

I only know of a couple that do this. Miller SubX fame states that he has replaced boards for clients who where not happy with the outcome. And the guys at Yahoo have loaners of their models that you can ride to see what you like that can then be tweaked to your personal needs.

Theses are shapers that understand the subjective nature of performance and the decision process.

Find a shaper that is willing to guarantee their work. Otherwise head next door.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype and BS.

So contrary to popular opinions I am not blinker visioned, narrow minded, anti custom or shaper.

I'm just not gullible and don't buy into the whole blindly trust your hard earned coin to a shaper BS.

Are we clear now boys and girls?

Really? Best you got is juvenile insults?

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

And 50% of those shapers market on differentiation.

Selling their take on what does and does not work without a scrap of performance based evidence to support their claims.

So yeah do listen and talk to your shaper, and challenge them to substantiate their claims. To show proof and evidence in place of claims.

I've been there and done that. The shaper will then roll out the reference list of happy clients to convince you that it must be so. And yes it is so for all of those punters who had no other datum to work from.

But then ask the shaper to guarantee that you will get a board that suits you and performs according to your wish list.

That will sort the men from the boys quick smart.

I only know of a couple that do this. Miller SubX fame states that he has replaced boards for clients who where not happy with the outcome. And the guys at Yahoo have loaners of their models that you can ride to see what you like that can then be tweaked to your personal needs.

Theses are shapers that understand the subjective nature of performance and the decision process.

Find a shaper that is willing to guarantee their work. Otherwise head next door.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype and BS.

So contrary to popular opinions I am not blinker visioned, narrow minded, anti custom or shaper.

I'm just not gullible and don't buy into the whole blindly trust your hard earned coin to a shaper BS.

Are we clear now boys and girls?

Really? Best you got is juvenile insults?

Im not the one that had their posts deleted because it was juvenile and cheap shot at someone's wife.

Select to expand quote

SP said..

Ricardo1709 said..
Roy's long lost cousin ??

NA, Roy at least had a clue about what he as talking about.. And his fins were pretty good.

Old mate thinks he is the messiah after being back in the water for a month after 20 year out and is an expert on everything.

Fair call, sorry if it's coming across that way.

Not intended, just not gullible and swayed by blind belief.

Select to expand quote

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

And 50% of those shapers market on differentiation.

Selling their take on what does and does not work without a scrap of performance based evidence to support their claims.

So yeah do listen and talk to your shaper, and challenge them to substantiate their claims. To show proof and evidence in place of claims.

I've been there and done that. The shaper will then roll out the reference list of happy clients to convince you that it must be so. And yes it is so for all of those punters who had no other datum to work from.

But then ask the shaper to guarantee that you will get a board that suits you and performs according to your wish list.

That will sort the men from the boys quick smart.

I only know of a couple that do this. Miller SubX fame states that he has replaced boards for clients who where not happy with the outcome. And the guys at Yahoo have loaners of their models that you can ride to see what you like that can then be tweaked to your personal needs.

Theses are shapers that understand the subjective nature of performance and the decision process.

Find a shaper that is willing to guarantee their work. Otherwise head next door.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype and BS.

So contrary to popular opinions I am not blinker visioned, narrow minded, anti custom or shaper.

I'm just not gullible and don't buy into the whole blindly trust your hard earned coin to a shaper BS.

Are we clear now boys and girls?

Really? Best you got is juvenile insults?

Im not the one that had their posts deleted because it was juvenile and cheap shot at someone's wife.

??

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

chrispy said..
Bahahaha you talked up the amazing advice you got from the whorehouse and you still bag shapers lol you are that kind of special

Plus you lose all credibility on saying the sub x is a great board...they are pigs

I loose credibility? I wasn't chasing any. Simply stating my experiences and reasoning.

So CW can bag other shapers in an add. And you can call another's shapers boards pigs. And then bag me out when I only comment from experience on what I have ridden and why. And I'm the one who is that kind of special?

Enjoy being in the purple circle of delusion then mate.

How can anyone ascribe any cred to your hypocrisy?

Talk to your shaper dude, talk to your shaper man. But not that one, his boards are pigs. And only this one because all the others don't actually custom, they just paint them pretty.

Any one with any logic and reasoning can see straight through people like you.

You are a tripper...where did cw bag others shapers? He didn't,but you don't care because you make **** up for you delusional agenda ....cannot wait for this gem of wisdom from you lol

Stop making **** up bro and stop listening to the online helper at the whorehouse lol

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Hydromann said..

SP said..

Tux said..


Shapers love it when people come into the factory and detail exactly what they want right down to rail shape and fin placement/ configuration instead of leaning on X amount years of experience , knowledge, experimentation and asking questions

Its always important to know what you don't know fills a far bigger bucket than what you do know

I did some research online

Are the worst word any professional can ever hear come out of a customer's mouth.

So which shaper does a person who wants a custom board listen to?

Which shapers bucket is full of the right stuff?

If I listen to MacT his whole take on design and what works is entirely different to McCoy, who's is entirely different to MR's, who's is entirely different to Egan, who is different to Webber, who is similar to Miller... ad nauseam.

Even down to the locals who make boards for supposed local conditions, I see 50 plus branded riders that are sitting on sunken pop sickles that struggle to carry their load onto a wave. And when they do get one the face has sped away from them. But hey they're cool because they ride a label or a "custom" design.

Something that neither suits them or the conditions that they ride in, but "custom made".

Went into a surf shop yesterday, and they had one whole rack of used boards from one client who had them all made custom to his needs. 8 boards sitting there that he was now trying to offload because they didn't suit him.

I would think that any shaper worth their weight in foam would adore a customer like that . More money than brains to move along and find a shaper that will actually listen.

And really that's my beef, every shaper pontificates their greatness and laments the pop outs. There are greats who have stood the test of time, and just like any other industry there are the snake oilers.

As for me, one day I will walk into a shapers bay and tell them what I think will work for me. If they try to sell be any snake oil I'll be walking across the road to the next shaper.

And at the end of the day the only person to blame if it does not work will be me.

Think you missed tuxs point.

As for me I have boards from numerous shapers.
They aren't all the same but that all work. Skilled craftsmen producing great boards using there own ideas and experience to make boards that work...
Most of them had little input for me besides basic dimensions. Some were even bought 2nd hand with no input from me.


Maybe the bloke you mentioned that had them made to his needs instead of listening to what they needed should have read tuxs post cause that was the point of it.

Listen and talk to your a shaper. 99% of them know their ****.. And wouldn't have lasted in business if they kept producing boards that didnt work.

.

And 50% of those shapers market on differentiation.

Selling their take on what does and does not work without a scrap of performance based evidence to support their claims.

So yeah do listen and talk to your shaper, and challenge them to substantiate their claims. To show proof and evidence in place of claims.

I've been there and done that. The shaper will then roll out the reference list of happy clients to convince you that it must be so. And yes it is so for all of those punters who had no other datum to work from.

But then ask the shaper to guarantee that you will get a board that suits you and performs according to your wish list.

That will sort the men from the boys quick smart.

I only know of a couple that do this. Miller SubX fame states that he has replaced boards for clients who where not happy with the outcome. And the guys at Yahoo have loaners of their models that you can ride to see what you like that can then be tweaked to your personal needs.

Theses are shapers that understand the subjective nature of performance and the decision process.

Find a shaper that is willing to guarantee their work. Otherwise head next door.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype and BS.

So contrary to popular opinions I am not blinker visioned, narrow minded, anti custom or shaper.

I'm just not gullible and don't buy into the whole blindly trust your hard earned coin to a shaper BS.

Are we clear now boys and girls?

Really? Best you got is juvenile insults?

Im not the one that had their posts deleted because it was juvenile and cheap shot at someone's wife.

??

Pig with lipstick?

Why cant we all get along.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..

Hydromann said..

chrispy said..
Bahahaha you talked up the amazing advice you got from the whorehouse and you still bag shapers lol you are that kind of special

Plus you lose all credibility on saying the sub x is a great board...they are pigs

I loose credibility? I wasn't chasing any. Simply stating my experiences and reasoning.

So CW can bag other shapers in an add. And you can call another's shapers boards pigs. And then bag me out when I only comment from experience on what I have ridden and why. And I'm the one who is that kind of special?

Enjoy being in the purple circle of delusion then mate.

How can anyone ascribe any cred to your hypocrisy?

Talk to your shaper dude, talk to your shaper man. But not that one, his boards are pigs. And only this one because all the others don't actually custom, they just paint them pretty.

Any one with any logic and reasoning can see straight through people like you.

You are a tripper...where did cw bag others shapers? He didn't,but you don't care because you make **** up for you delusional agenda ....cannot wait for this gem of wisdom from you lol

Stop making **** up bro and stop listening to the online helper at the whorehouse lol

Really? I'm a tripper when in another post CW boards, not a person, post up an add bagging out the results you get from other customised suppliers. And infer and imply that only they can make what you really want.

Not tripping mate, just stating facts.

And so far the online help from many different suppliers is way more constructive and positive than try to have any type of logical or rational discussion with any number of people here.

No ****e made up.

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

chrispy said..

Hydromann said..

chrispy said..
Bahahaha you talked up the amazing advice you got from the whorehouse and you still bag shapers lol you are that kind of special

Plus you lose all credibility on saying the sub x is a great board...they are pigs

I loose credibility? I wasn't chasing any. Simply stating my experiences and reasoning.

So CW can bag other shapers in an add. And you can call another's shapers boards pigs. And then bag me out when I only comment from experience on what I have ridden and why. And I'm the one who is that kind of special?

Enjoy being in the purple circle of delusion then mate.

How can anyone ascribe any cred to your hypocrisy?

Talk to your shaper dude, talk to your shaper man. But not that one, his boards are pigs. And only this one because all the others don't actually custom, they just paint them pretty.

Any one with any logic and reasoning can see straight through people like you.

You are a tripper...where did cw bag others shapers? He didn't,but you don't care because you make **** up for you delusional agenda ....cannot wait for this gem of wisdom from you lol

Stop making **** up bro and stop listening to the online helper at the whorehouse lol

Really? I'm a tripper when in another post CW boards, not a person, post up an add bagging out the results you get from other customised suppliers. And infer and imply that only they can make what you really want.

Not tripping mate, just stating facts.

And so far the online help from many different suppliers is way more constructive and positive than try to have any type of logical or rational discussion with any number of people here.

No ****e made up.

Lol you are just plain old dumb

Cw was stating facts...something you really struggle with bro

Select to expand quote

laceys lane said..
Why cant we all get along.

As the newbie here I can tell you why.

Old stale turds who would rather insult people who reply to posts based on what they encounter and experience.

People who dare have a different perspective and dare to voice their logic and reasoning attached to it.

These unwelcoming sad and sorry excuses of supposed experts drive anyone who would dare enquire or say anything away from cordial discussion. And no I'm not talking about some friendly banter.

These turds are no different to the school yard bullies.

I will not even mention how many people have PM'd me saying that they agree with my perspective but keep their heads down to avoid the scorn of these turds.

That is why.

I'm outta here, enjoy your miserable existence.