Select to expand quote

Indodreaming said..

Here is a quote from Nick C from another forum which answers one of the questions I had.

"The book may help give it more context for you tootr. TC was never a guy who used drugs prior to competing, it was always part of the celebration afterward. That is until it took a darker turn over time. There are connections between Tom's experience and the normalising of heavy drug use in the surf communities of the 70s and 80s, but there are other more personal aspects to his descent into addiction which to me were the more powerful things at work. "

So as I had thought it wasnt about getting an edge in competition but part of the partying going on that descended into addiction.

So that makes it alright does it?

ET.

I think Indo was just confirming that TC used them not as performance enhancers in the water but as out of the water enhancers - he is not suggesting everyone should do this - well I hope not.

Some history

In France Brazilian surfer Neco Padaratz tested positive to anabolic steroids in 2004 and was banned for six months

King KS speaks earlier this year

When Kelly Slater drops his opinion about something to do with surfing, you listen to it. Especially when it???s about something as hot as drug use. While in Coolangatta for the Quiksilver Pro, Gold Coast (and yes, he???s doing the whole tour this year), Kelly riffed an excellent interview with the Courier Mail. The focus was drugs in surfing, but not the kind you may think. ???There clearly is ??? absolutely,??? he said of a recreational drug problem on the tour. ???There???s no denying that, it???s rampant, it???s full-on.??? But, he doesn???t believe a performance-enhancing drug problem exists in surfing. Why? ???I don???t think there???s a drug you can take to make you surf better???.

Kelly, who???s been drug-free his whole life, said that, while the ASP made a move in the right direction to begin with, the flame went out. ???They tested us at the first event and I never got tested again all year,??? he said. ???Why talk about it and not do it? Why bother? Either do it or don???t do it.??? And, besides, testing at events won???t help those with a recreational drug problem, says Kelly: ???Those are personal, private matters and it???s really hard to dredge them up publicly and come to any kind of conclusion. Andy (Irons) was the one who put himself in that situation. Had he had more outside pressure to change, that might have pushed him over the edge more quickly. I know a lot of drug addicts and you can???t force them to go get help if they don???t want it. You just have to show those people love and support and let them know that if they need your help, you???re there.???
So, there???s that. Everyone has their own opinion. But, what of Kelly???s plans? One thing???s for sure: They don???t involve retirement. ???I???m going to go for it and try to put together a good year,??? he said. ???Pretty much every day I get some older dude come up to me and say ???Oh, mate, you???ve got to keep going???. I was one heat away from winning the title last year. I came really close and it wasn???t really heartbreaking. I was happy for Parko. But right now everyone???s got a target on their back we???re all starting at zero.???

Select to expand quote

E T said..

Indodreaming said..

Here is a quote from Nick C from another forum which answers one of the questions I had.

"The book may help give it more context for you tootr. TC was never a guy who used drugs prior to competing, it was always part of the celebration afterward. That is until it took a darker turn over time. There are connections between Tom's experience and the normalising of heavy drug use in the surf communities of the 70s and 80s, but there are other more personal aspects to his descent into addiction which to me were the more powerful things at work. "

So as I had thought it wasnt about getting an edge in competition but part of the partying going on that descended into addiction.

So that makes it alright does it?

ET.

So it would seem

Yes i've done drugs but I'm not a World Champion either. Should AI and Occy give back there championships, IMHO YES. Drug cheats are drug cheats no matter how many of you say its okay, because is only recreational. If you think its okay then you have to admit our sport if flawed, at least at a professional level

Anyway i'll move on.

Select to expand quote

jbshack said...

E T said..

Indodreaming said..

Here is a quote from Nick C from another forum which answers one of the questions I had.

"The book may help give it more context for you tootr. TC was never a guy who used drugs prior to competing, it was always part of the celebration afterward. That is until it took a darker turn over time. There are connections between Tom's experience and the normalising of heavy drug use in the surf communities of the 70s and 80s, but there are other more personal aspects to his descent into addiction which to me were the more powerful things at work. "

So as I had thought it wasnt about getting an edge in competition but part of the partying going on that descended into addiction.

So that makes it alright does it?

ET.

So it would seem

Yes i've done drugs but I'm not a World Champion either. Should AI and Occy give back there championships, IMHO YES. Drug cheats are drug cheats no matter how many of you say its okay, because is only recreational. If you think its okay then you have to admit our sport if flawed, at least at a professional level

Anyway i'll move on.

At almost any level then JB look at the AFL & Rugby, rife with performance enhancing and rec/party drugs. I'm not saying drugs are good or bad I'm just saying that its going to happen weather you know about or not.
Personally I think he is doing a great thing by telling the truth and not hideing it.
He is not a cheat. Lance Armstong is a cheat.

To be clear I am not saying strip him of world titles...in fact I am coming from the other side and think all drugs should be decriminalised...it works very well in Portugal....

Select to expand quote

jbshack said...

E T said..

Indodreaming said..

Here is a quote from Nick C from another forum which answers one of the questions I had.

"The book may help give it more context for you tootr. TC was never a guy who used drugs prior to competing, it was always part of the celebration afterward. That is until it took a darker turn over time. There are connections between Tom's experience and the normalising of heavy drug use in the surf communities of the 70s and 80s, but there are other more personal aspects to his descent into addiction which to me were the more powerful things at work. "

So as I had thought it wasnt about getting an edge in competition but part of the partying going on that descended into addiction.

So that makes it alright does it?

ET.

So it would seem

but I'm not a World Champion either.

In my eyes you are

Jbshack

I am lost as to how you can label them as cheats.

If as his brother is saying it wasn't done pre-competition to gain an edge but after in celebration then it becomes a personal health issue.

Given the damage that legal drugs such as ciggies and booze do, at a personal level I get confused at where our society draws a line but that is a whole different debate.

On the basis of your argument if I could prove that Kelly Slater broke the law by driving through a red light on the way to a competition that he won and that got him a world title then he should be stripped of the title. He broke the law and therefore cheated. In fact that is more of a performance enhancement as he wouldn't have got to his heat on time.

To me that argument makes as much sense as wanting to strip a world title based on what someone did at the after party. They are not cheats but I am guessing a lot of them have personal issues like everyone else.

I'd be more worried about the fact that all these superstar afl,nfl and surfing stars are roll models for kids whether we like it or not.No place for drugs in any sport I reckon

Kneeling

We want our heroes to be clean living saints but often genius (which to get to an elite level of anything is what is needed) comes with a lot of issues, emotional baggage and in many cases one step away from what society calls madness.

Maybe the surf media did a good job turning a blind eye so that the kids don't see the dark side of their idols.

I agree there is no place for drugs in sport but what someone gets up to in their personal life as long as it doesn't damage other people should be no ones elses business.

Heavy Weather

Select to expand quote

Indodreaming said..

Jbshack

I am lost as to how you can label them as cheats.

If as his brother is saying it wasn't done pre-competition to gain an edge but after in celebration then it becomes a personal health issue.

Given the damage that legal drugs such as ciggies and booze do, at a personal level I get confused at where our society draws a line but that is a whole different debate.

On the basis of your argument if I could prove that Kelly Slater broke the law by driving through a red light on the way to a competition that he won and that got him a world title then he should be stripped of the title. He broke the law and therefore cheated. In fact that is more of a performance enhancement as he wouldn't have got to his heat on time.

To me that argument makes as much sense as wanting to strip a world title based on what someone did at the after party. They are not cheats but I am guessing a lot of them have personal issues like everyone else.

I guess thats what makes everyone different. I can't for the life of me see how anyone can look at drug users, daily drug users as anything other than that. HE said he took drugs daily, to help get through life, to help him feel normal? Thats not just to have a good time at a party.

And I'm also gobsmacked at the attitude that he is not a cheat, but LA is? Seriously they are identical IMHO Lance armstrong took drugs to to make him better as a person, to give him a edge over his competitors, TC took drugs to make him a better person, to help maintain that edge in a competitive environment? SAME SAME. How often do we hear that people have dropped out of the WORLD TOUR because they just couldn't perform under pressure, they couldn't handle the stress's. Well should they also just take drugs to help them calm down and help then gain that competitive edge

I know people who played AFL. Trust me i've seen drug cheats and its not just to give performance increases on the field. Most drug use in sport these days is to mask pain or aid recovery..But thats still cheating.

BUT a question, what is the ruling on drugs and surfing? Does anyone have a link to the rules? I am keen to read that a bit more but not that good at Googling..

Thanks Weiry, i also like to think to my kids I'm a world Champ, and i often compare myself to the greats, but its heart breaking then find that they are flawed, thats all i guess

basically the ASP does token testing only and if you ask them about it they say jack ****

JB, pro surfing has changed heaps post 90s, let's call it the Slater era, it is a marketing machine clean image etc... Before it was a party machine.... That didn't speak of the dark side, cause most journalists at the time were up to their necks in it

Drugs and surfing have always been intertwined. And probably always will be it is just part of the scene, surfing will always attract fringe dwellers, weirdos etc and hence drugs....

Look at encyclopedia of surfing. It has a good section on drugs and surfing.


As for idolising famous people, never worked for me. They are just people who are good at something. Doesn't make them a good role model. Role models should be closer to home..
MR has always said just cause I surf ok and won some comps doesn't make me a good person or a better person than anyone else... It just means I can surf.

To my mind a good job, good education, cares about others, has integrity and is an honest person is what I'd aspire my kids to be..
And to me that is found at home with relatives etc not some guy I know nothing about other than his professional achievements. Sure it is good to want to achieve but idolising people you don't know is bound to fail IMO.

Select to expand quote

SP said..

JB, pro surfing has changed heaps post 90s, let's call it the Slater era, it is a marketing machine clean image etc... Before it was a party machine.... That didn't speak of the dark side, cause most journalists at the time were up to their necks in it

Drugs and surfing have always been intertwined. And probably always will be it is just part of the scene, surfing will always attract fringe dwellers, weirdos etc and hence drugs....

Look at encyclopedia of surfing. It has a good section on drugs and surfing.


As for idolising famous people, never worked for me. They are just people who are good at something. Doesn't make them a good role model. Role models should be closer to home..
MR has always said just cause I surf ok and won some comps doesn't make me a good person or a better person than anyone else... It just means I can surf.

To my mind a good job, good education, cares about others, has integrity and is an honest person is what I'd aspire my kids to be..
And to me that is found at home with relatives etc not some guy I know nothing about other than his professional achievements. Sure it is good to want to achieve but idolising people you don't know is bound to fail IMO.

Well said!

All good to look at it like that but the surfing and sport world in general didn't have the media coverage our kids have now eg Internet, fuel tv,alf channels at a turn of a button when we grew up we had minimal tv coverage and access to our top sports people.Ive been involved in kids sport for a while now as coach at different levels and the influence our stars have on our kids is massive go to local parks kids trying to inside out drop punts,pop airs like kerr.So whether they like it or not there role models you just hope that your kids know what's the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do that's what they learn at home.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..

Kneeling said...
All good to look at it like that but the surfing and sport world in general didn't have the media coverage our kids have now eg Internet, fuel tv,alf channels at a turn of a button when we grew up we had minimal tv coverage and access to our top sports people.Ive been involved in kids sport for a while now as coach at different levels and the influence our stars have on our kids is massive go to local parks kids trying to inside out drop punts,pop airs like kerr.So whether they like it or not there role models you just hope that your kids know what's the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do that's what they learn at home.

And that mate is what good parents do,conversation and guidance is not a crime to children. I have kept out of this thread and deleted posts,wish I had not now,but being blunt and honest is not a bad a thing. Ok against my better judgement this is, I told my son about drugs when he was 13. I told him when he takes them he will have the craziest fun and will feel like he is the man,that he would feel like you could never have that much fun in life without them. I also pointed out that the fun he has now, and thinks is the greatest fun a person can have....is without drugs. I then pointed out that 99 out of 100 people will **** it all up through drug's,then showed him him a fair few crew that screwed themselves.
The reason I told him all this was if I said drugs are bad and the lecture,then he took them,well I would look like a liar and out to ruin his fun. I also advised him that if his friends had taken some,to Never worry about the consequences of law,that he should call a ambulance and look after his mate.

I feel like I'm ranting now,but my son has been educated without lies and has his own mind to mmake a informed choice. Drugs do make you feel ****ing great and partying and blah blah blah is wicked with them....at least he knows now and can see the consequences of what they lead to around him.

I agree we teach our kids by example. Its just that for them they want to aspire to be bigger and bolder than they will probably ever make it too. BUT when they then see their heroes making it, only to find out they cheated with drugs, that is not good

For me i don't idolise these men, i do look up to their ability's and still will do, but its simply takes of the shine to the brilliance

I agree maybe the past had a fair drug culture, be it mostly for recreational use, but i would find it harder to swallow today on the pro tour that drug use would be tolerated People often talk about KS and his age, maybe a drug free life has helped with his fitness and ability..? Or i could be wrong and he too could be a big drug cheat too I hope not.

I like your thoughts JBShack!

ET.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..

jbshack said...

chrispy said..

Kneeling said...
All good to look at it like that but the surfing and sport world in general didn't have the media coverage our kids have now eg Internet, fuel tv,alf channels at a turn of a button when we grew up we had minimal tv coverage and access to our top sports people.Ive been involved in kids sport for a while now as coach at different levels and the influence our stars have on our kids is massive go to local parks kids trying to inside out drop punts,pop airs like kerr.So whether they like it or not there role models you just hope that your kids know what's the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do that's what they learn at home.

And that mate is what good parents do,conversation and guidance is not a crime to children. I have kept out of this thread and deleted posts,wish I had not now,but being blunt and honest is not a bad a thing. Ok against my better judgement this is, I told my son about drugs when he was 13. I told him when he takes them he will have the craziest fun and will feel like he is the man,that he would feel like you could never have that much fun in life without them. I also pointed out that the fun he has now, and thinks is the greatest fun a person can have....is without drugs. I then pointed out that 99 out of 100 people will **** it all up through drug's,then showed him him a fair few crew that screwed themselves.
The reason I told him all this was if I said drugs are bad and the lecture,then he took them,well I would look like a liar and out to ruin his fun. I also advised him that if his friends had taken some,to Never worry about the consequences of law,that he should call a ambulance and look after his mate.

I feel like I'm ranting now,but my son has been educated without lies and has his own mind to mmake a informed choice. Drugs do make you feel ****ing great and partying and blah blah blah is wicked with them....at least he knows now and can see the consequences of what they lead to around him.

I agree we teach our kids by example. Its just that for them they want to aspire to be bigger and bolder than they will probably ever make it too. BUT when they then see their heroes making it, only to find out they cheated with drugs, that is not good

For me i don't idolise these men, i do look up to their ability's and still will do, but its simply takes of the shine to the brilliance

I agree maybe the past had a fair drug culture, be it mostly for recreational use, but i would find it harder to swallow today on the pro tour that drug use would be tolerated People often talk about KS and his age, maybe a drug free life has helped with his fitness and ability..? Or i could be wrong and he too could be a big drug cheat too I hope not.

I'm not liking that I deleted a post as I changed my view on whether a public forum was the right place for them.....yet you feel it is fine to repost something that I deleted....that is ****ed in itself.

It looks like he quoted it before you deleted it.

Do you guys think that the brand names eg afl,ripcurl etc know what their stars are up to and hide as much as possible to protect
There brand from not looking to flash at the expense of their well being?

Select to expand quote

Kneeling said..

Do you guys think that the brand names eg afl,ripcurl etc know what their stars are up to and hide as much as possible to protect
There brand from not looking to flash at the expense of their well being?

I think its a low care factor as far as they are concerned, as long as the money is coming in big corpations dont really care.

They will tell you they do but they dont its all about the dollar.

Kneeling.
Two letters answer that question. A.I.

And you have made sure it stays...bravo.
I believe in what I posted...I'm just don't have time to argue to.and fro,hence why I kept out of this.discussion.

In my humble and somewhat biased opinion I would hope that people speak to their own viewpoints and don't rely on someone else's posts to get their point across.

We all come equipped to speak our own minds.

Sure you don't have to agree with everything you read but you should post what is yours.

A good evening to all.

ET.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..



And you have made sure it stays...bravo.
I believe in what I posted...I'm just don't have time to argue to.and fro,hence why I kept out of this.discussion.

Chrispy Jeez mate sometimes you can be hot and cold. Sorry i had to re read it all to even work out what you were talking about..I quoted you and you must have removed your post after that.. It not conspiracy . But if you like i'll remove my post that has your post in it. But you will also have to remove your post that quoted me, because that also has your post in it as well

Everyone is entitled to different opinions. I have no issue how you do your parenting, in fact i can see the logic in what you said..

Select to expand quote

jbshack said...

chrispy said..



And you have made sure it stays...bravo.
I believe in what I posted...I'm just don't have time to argue to.and fro,hence why I kept out of this.discussion.

Chrispy Jeez mate sometimes you can be hot and cold. Sorry i had to re read it all to even work out what you were talking about..I quoted you and you must have removed your post after that.. It not conspiracy . But if you like i'll remove my post that has your post in it. But you will also have to remove your post that quoted me, because that also has your post in it as well

Everyone is entitled to different opinions. I have no issue how you do your parenting, in fact i can see the logic in what you said..

Well that is just plain stoopid if you had to re read something to understand it....if that is the case it should never have been quoted not hot and cold,just hindsight on the internet

I am still lost with the view that somehow TC can be compared to Lance Armstrong.

Armstrong went out determined to gain an advantage. From what I understand this extended to re-injecting his own blood after it had been improved.
This is a systematic scientific approach to win at all costs.

TC had admitted to partying too hard on coke and this spiralled long after his pro career finished into a Ice addiction. No intention to gain an advantage and I think it would have been detrimental to his performance. Could have been worth a few more world titles.

Its not my place to condemn or condone his choices but to put someone who has a health issue (addiction) in the same class as LA seems very harsh.

^^ I wish I could green that twice. Well said..

Select to expand quote

SP said...
^^ I wish I could green that twice. Well said..

Well I can help with that...plus it saves me a lot of typing

Select to expand quote

chrispy said..

SP said...
^^ I wish I could green that twice. Well said..

Well I can help with that...plus it saves me a lot of typing

That what was the second green was for, Cause I didn't have to type it.

One was systematic cheating the other was a drug addiction. Huge difference IMO.

Select to expand quote

chrispy said...

jbshack said...

chrispy said..



And you have made sure it stays...bravo.
I believe in what I posted...I'm just don't have time to argue to.and fro,hence why I kept out of this.discussion.

Chrispy Jeez mate sometimes you can be hot and cold. Sorry i had to re read it all to even work out what you were talking about..I quoted you and you must have removed your post after that.. It not conspiracy . But if you like i'll remove my post that has your post in it. But you will also have to remove your post that quoted me, because that also has your post in it as well

Everyone is entitled to different opinions. I have no issue how you do your parenting, in fact i can see the logic in what you said..

Well that is just plain stoopid if you had to re read something to understand it....if that is the case it should never have been quoted not hot and cold,just hindsight on the internet

What I was saying I didn't realize you had deleted your post. First I saw was you complaining I'd copied it. Honestly I get your point. But if you post and the delete stuff that's you're issue.