i think if you look up to or hero worship someone your bound to be disappointed at some stage.

be the best you can be and be your own hero- it's more fun

I think it's ok to admire talent when you see it. Hero worship is a different thing altogether I reckon.
As for Tom Carroll I really don't care one way or another what he's done.

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laceys lane said..

i think if you look up to or hero worship someone your bound to be disappointed at some stage.

be the best you can be and be your own hero- it's more fun


Nice Lacey.

ET.

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WA71 said..


thing is people do things in their past that are not proud of but if we keep looking behind us at the past we will never go forward.

Probably the comment of the year... Life moves in a forward direction... Always good to be looking the right way.

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smh said..

Despite the fact he used drugs he is still amongst the greatest surfers ever in my opinion. He's trained his arse off over the years and can ride anything. Everybody makes mistakes and if he's coming out and repenting now to boost sales for his book then so what ?
I don't understand the bagging he's getting. It's not like he's Lance Armstrong.

Um i have to disagree, he is the Lance Armstrong of surfing How would you like to have come second to a drug cheat Cheated and he should be stripped of those tittles

I reckon you'd need to be on crack to surf like this

but drugs don't mean you can, talent does. So what another fallen idol blah blah blah. Insert book here.... Let's get on with it, as other have said, not being on it and a pro surfer would be more of a surprise, specially at the time Tom was on tour.

Tom is no better person or have less failings than any other.. He is just a guy who surfed good.. So let's not get carried away with the idol worship at some point they all slip, he was a great surfer and personally I never met bloke so who am I to judge his personal life or habits.

But let's get to that clip... The snap was cool but I always reckoned the late drop to huge pit was the best wave..

Problem is if you take TC's titles away you need to take away Occy's, Andy's etc
There's probably one fully clean surfer on tour, crack down and cancel the tour...

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jbshack said..

smh said..

Despite the fact he used drugs he is still amongst the greatest surfers ever in my opinion. He's trained his arse off over the years and can ride anything. Everybody makes mistakes and if he's coming out and repenting now to boost sales for his book then so what ?
I don't understand the bagging he's getting. It's not like he's Lance Armstrong.

Um i have to disagree, he is the Lance Armstrong of surfing How would you like to have come second to a drug cheat Cheated and he should be stripped of those tittles

He was taking Coke by his own admission. Who is to know if he was taking it between heats. I really wouldn't classify Coke as a performance enhancer and he made the point that he took it took it to overcome a shy persona to give him a social edge .I could be wrong . Coke is a definite confidence booster but he already had the talent . He won a couple of pro juniors as well . I think if you dig deep enough you would probably find plenty of pro surfers who used drugs. Big can of worms to want to strip him of two world titles. Do you regard Occy as a cheat as well ?

I hear what ya are saying JB but anyone who calls amphetamines and coke performance enhancing is absolutely kidding themselves. Sure they might make you feel a bit better and take you to a new place but in terms of enhancing your ability to ride a wave over time - no farrrken way. Absolutely not. Performance enhancing drugs like LA was taking were a completely different story. I imagine that many a surfer would seriously benefit from having had his medical team at hand.

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SP said..

Richie Collins.....

Well that's my guees for the clean one...

I reckon KS would be a clean skin for sure - do not disappoint me CMC and tell me other wise

What about MR ? I can't imagine him doing anything dodgy.

I agree

These are recreational drugs that I just fail to see could be called performance enhancing. I doubt anyone today or in years gone by were taking these drugs as part of a programme to improve their performance they just live/lived larger than life lives with a lot of temptation thrown at them. As Taj Burrow was quoted as saying when the tour comes to town it is the biggest event in the community on the year.

There are parts of this whole drug thing I dont get anyway.

In both NRL and AFL a lot of players get a pain killer needle on injuries so they can take the field.

They do this under club medical direction and basically its done so they can take the field. No painkilling shot and they would struggle. So why isnt this performance enhancing.

Watch the start of an ASP contest and you see the contestants rocking up with a big takeaway container of coffee. Legal drug but definitely a pick you ie performance enhancing.

I have worked with people who cannot start there day without a coffee and then take it all through the day to get them through the day. I often wondered what someone like this would do if someone consumed a non legal drug in front of them so they could "get through the day"

What I am struggling with is this about getting a message out or making a buck out of selling books.

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Indodreaming said..


What I am struggling with is this about getting a message out or making a buck out of selling books.

Given that it is NC I imagine its more about the book being honest than selling books. Yes it helps to tell/sell the story but as far as I can make out about NC he is all about telling the truth. He is a great writer and I love reading his words.....can not wait to read this one. He is one weird cat though it must be said he makes some weird nosies out in the lineup - not sure he does it too piss people off or amuse himself !

Yep, I guess I'm just simple but for anyone to say Coke isn't performing enhancing I'm guessing has not really seen just what that stuff can do. I also just assumed there would be drug testing in professional surfing. Is there? For all those who don't have a problem with this story ( and that seems most of you) how would you feel if you lost to a drug cheat?

It really steps surfing as a profesionial sport well down on the list if drugs are excepted as the norm IMHO.

Tom Carrol two time world champion drug cheat.

Back to reading Mick Fannings book. Please let him be clean

Jbshack

To label him a drug cheat is to assume he was taking a line going into his heats.

If he was on it at the parties in the evenings then rather than enhancing I would say it would reduce someones level of performance a bit like a hangover the next day.

The great MP won the stubbies and did it after a shot of heroin. I guess this was performance enhancing as he needed it to just feel normal and come out of the shadows.

It seems to me that people who reach the level of performance that these guys reach whether its surfing, music or other artistic performance often have huge personal issues. That fine line between brilliance and madness.

We want our heroes to be perfect but they are just human like the rest of us. The difference is that everything they do is done on a bigger scale.

The day TC won at pipe with "the snap" in the semi was after he had been told by his dad that his sister had been killed in a car crash. I doubt he took anything on that day but his grief took him to a place that allowed a level of performance that I still struggle to comprehend.

Ted the Kiwi

NC is one of my favourite commentators. Very insightful and his analysis of whats going on puts him head and shoulders above the rest.

There is another forum with an ask Carroll thread which is up to 100 pages and his responses to different questions are pretty insightful.

whats the world coming to

even Tiger Wood cheated 586 times





























on his wife

i'm not for drug cheating but talk of stripping carrol is stupid. many, many surfers have been on lots of stuff over those years.it's not like he had a advantage



funny thing is you still hear about huge post comp celebrations going on's like as if drug testing wasn't even there.


surfing and drugs go hand in hand for some reason. the sport is full of it.


cokes only short term, you would be a wreck by the end of a comp. pot is big, but the guys who can't surf without it aren't touring (free stylers) or aren't contenders because they can't cope.


most of it's party time imo


ps al was the saddest thing to happen. he fell of the wagon.it all catches up in the end

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Indodreaming said..

Jbshack

To label him a drug cheat is to assume he was taking a line going into his heats.

If he was on it at the parties in the evenings then rather than enhancing I would say it would reduce someones level of performance a bit like a hangover the next day.

The great MP won the stubbies and did it after a shot of heroin. I guess this was performance enhancing as he needed it to just feel normal and come out of the shadows.

It seems to me that people who reach the level of performance that these guys reach whether its surfing, music or other artistic performance often have huge personal issues. That fine line between brilliance and madness.

We want our heroes to be perfect but they are just human like the rest of us. The difference is that everything they do is done on a bigger scale.

The day TC won at pipe with "the snap" in the semi was after he had been told by his dad that his sister had been killed in a car crash. I doubt he took anything on that day but his grief took him to a place that allowed a level of performance that I still struggle to comprehend.

Ted the Kiwi

NC is one of my favourite commentators. Very insightful and his analysis of whats going on puts him head and shoulders above the rest.

There is another forum with an ask Carroll thread which is up to 100 pages and his responses to different questions are pretty insightful.

But he said he was taking it daily. As i said its different strokes for different folks but the message is now "You two can achieve greatness like i did, BUT i did take drugs daily" How many kids who are trying, struggling to be the best, having a hard time with all the pressures and stress's on a young sports star. Will now think, yeah but TC took drugs to smooth out the edges

Im not talking going to a party and getting stoned, but to take a drug to smooth over emotions to help get through a day, to help calm you down for a heat, its all the same.

Drugs these days can be performance enhancing, they can be stress related or they can take the form of pain masking. Drugs that are illegal are simply that.

It just goes to show that the BIG BRANDS are just all about dollars. They don't care really as long as they are selling product

Sorry ill never change my opinion. I still think he is amazing, but he has dropped IMO.. Actually i remember watching his movie with Ross and he talked about being scared of getting a beating. I though then how amazing he was that he pushed past his fears and concurred them. Actually i shared my thoughts and admirations with my kids. NOW it turns out he probably just used DRUGS

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Ted the Kiwi said...
I hear what ya are saying JB but anyone who calls amphetamines and coke performance enhancing is absolutely kidding themselves. Sure they might make you feel a bit better and take you to a new place but in terms of enhancing your ability to ride a wave over time - no farrrken way. Absolutely not. Performance enhancing drugs like LA was taking were a completely different story. I imagine that many a surfer would seriously benefit from having had his medical team at hand.

+1 couldn't agree more.

JB you could look at it this way, TC was a recreational user during his competitive days but seemed to descend into the realm of the addict when those days ended. You have shown your kids the Storm Riders series and quite rightly pointed out the heroic, courageous and motivational aspects of what these guys do with their natural ability and desire to push the limits. Unfortunately, these same qualities make for "functioning addicts". At some point TC's usage became problematic and I'm sure he did some stuff that lead him to "rock bottom" and to seek professional help. I can see how your opinion of him has changed but if you do decide to discuss this with your kids I think it can be valuable to point out that he sought help and is now living a life that he can "truly" be proud of and in some way I think that these will be his best years. If your kids are old enough to really get this it may be more valuable than learning about his charging big waves and epic heats at Pipe. Good thread boys with some really insightful input, hope I added to it.

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Indodreaming said..

NC is one of my favourite commentators. Very insightful and his analysis of whats going on puts him head and shoulders above the rest.

There is another forum with an ask Carroll thread which is up to 100 pages and his responses to different questions are pretty insightful.

That thread was the basis for my comment !! I love it. I often wondered if that was you in there as well - very similar name There are a few others from here in there as well. Glad Don got his cashola!

Coke and whizz would defo be performance enhancing both give you the ability to focus and create a feeling of confidence...add that extra confidence to a ****load of natural ability and you would be pretty hard to beat I reckon...it could just give you the extra 10% mentally that you need to go extra hard on that wave....pretty telling that RCJ was in some of the shots there have been quite a few quotes about him and wraps of go fast in articles over the years

Tux

I dont know the facts but if was been done at parties etc and not before heats then to me it would be a negative not a positive on performance.

I had heard rumours about a number of the big wave riders and using a substance to face up to the size waves they are tackling.

This was not competition related just surfing f--ken huge waves.

On the calls to strip him of his titles then do we go back and strip MP of his stubbies and other titles for been on heroin ?

To me we are comparing a cyclist, runner, swimmer who with clear thinking and often with support of others take banned substances to gain an advantage. Against this we have a surfer who is partying to hard with no thought or plan other than falling into a hole of substance abuse.

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Indodreaming said..

Tux

I dont know the facts but if was been done at parties etc and not before heats then to me it would be a negative not a positive on performance.

I had heard rumours about a number of the big wave riders and using a substance to face up to the size waves they are tackling.

This was not competition related just surfing f--ken huge waves.

On the calls to strip him of his titles then do we go back and strip MP of his stubbies and other titles for been on heroin ?

To me we are comparing a cyclist, runner, swimmer who with clear thinking and often with support of others take banned substances to gain an advantage. Against this we have a surfer who is partying to hard with no thought or plan other than falling into a hole of substance abuse.

So really what I'm reading is Surfing is more a life style, not a professional sport

I'd be gutted if i was clean and competing and new my competitors were cheating

As Tux said Coke is well and truly performance enhancing..Why do you think its the choice of drug for many rich business man? It gives them the edge in big meetings. Enables them to think clearer, to think faster on their feet by enhancing their instincts and perosnia. Increases blood flow enabling exceptional strength, Sounds like it would help your surfing to me..

JB have you ever taken drugs

Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Or was it "Let he who has never pulled a cone, cast a stone."
Or was it, "If I just had a a paddle, I could go one better than walking on water."
Or was it, "Pull yer heads in ya judgmental bozos, he's just a man like the rest of you. Everybody makes mistakes."

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jbshack said..

Indodreaming said..

Tux

I dont know the facts but if was been done at parties etc and not before heats then to me it would be a negative not a positive on performance.

I had heard rumours about a number of the big wave riders and using a substance to face up to the size waves they are tackling.

This was not competition related just surfing f--ken huge waves.

On the calls to strip him of his titles then do we go back and strip MP of his stubbies and other titles for been on heroin ?

To me we are comparing a cyclist, runner, swimmer who with clear thinking and often with support of others take banned substances to gain an advantage. Against this we have a surfer who is partying to hard with no thought or plan other than falling into a hole of substance abuse.

So really what I'm reading is Surfing is more a life style, not a professional sport

I'd be gutted if i was clean and competing and new my competitors were cheating

As Tux said Coke is well and truly performance enhancing..Why do you think its the choice of drug for many rich business man? It gives them the edge in big meetings. Enables them to think clearer, to think faster on their feet by enhancing their instincts and perosnia. Increases blood flow enabling exceptional strength, Sounds like it would help your surfing to me..

Should Occy and Andy Irons also be stripped of world titles ?

please say no...

No point in that now

Here is a quote from Nick C from another forum which answers one of the questions I had.

"The book may help give it more context for you tootr. TC was never a guy who used drugs prior to competing, it was always part of the celebration afterward. That is until it took a darker turn over time. There are connections between Tom's experience and the normalising of heavy drug use in the surf communities of the 70s and 80s, but there are other more personal aspects to his descent into addiction which to me were the more powerful things at work. "

So as I had thought it wasnt about getting an edge in competition but part of the partying going on that descended into addiction.