As discussed already in the above thread and coming from a AHD sealion XL 9' x 30" i have the idea to get a modern shaped SUP that also has all necessary windsurf and foil options:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Simsup-or-Tomo-based-boards-rockerline/

Thanx to the valuable feedback of the good guys in the know here in the forum (Colas, Kami and all others that post uand discuss the boards here) i could define a concept that should fullfill my requirements. The project now started to realise and is documented here (German Forum), i'll translate if there are questions:
surf-forum.com/forum/thread/16219-suche-nach-dem-holy-grail-windsurf-sup/

Pics will follow here.

Final Input parameters were:
- Target Dimension 8' x 30" x 4 1/2", 130 -135 liters
- Fast Rockerline of the Sealion Classic 7'6 (which is actually a 7'10 !), measured
- Outline/Rails/Quad setup of the Stretch Minion 8'4/Minion 7'10
- Tail and Planshape, concave to doubleconcave V of the Naish raptor
- Quad Setup Futureboxes, all 3/4"
- Powerbox Centerbox for Windsurfing or Thrustersetup
- Tuttlebox 45cm from tail for Foiling
- Footstrap Inserts
- Layup Carbon/Glass Sandwich, reinforced Deck for windsurfrig impacts
- Target weight < 9 kg, without windsurf/foil requirements 7 kg would be possible

Board is shaped/build by a friend living nearby who started building windsurfboards afterwork for himself and friends some time ago. Remember we're living in the wave/windsurf diaspora in the south of germany, home of beer, brezels, Porsche, Mercedes and the Kuckucksuhr from the blackforrest
www.boardschmiede.de/

Alex

Now i once more need your help regarding the Sup handle insert !!!

I just got a call from my shop where i'll buy the future finboxes etc. He told me that according to the european distributors of FCS and Future there are no handle inserts available in Europe for the next weeks, as there was no demand yet in Europe (custom builders??)

Could anybody provide me with a good handle insert?
Of course i would pay for all the shipping expense and taxes to germany.

Thanx in advance.

Alex

I don't have any spare fcs handle but I have some older futures handles I could post to you

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..
Now i once more need your help regarding the Sup handle insert !!!

I just got a call from my shop where i'll buy the future finboxes etc. He told me that according to the european distributors of FCS and Future there are no handle inserts available in Europe for the next weeks, as there was no demand yet in Europe (custom builders??)

Could anybody provide me with a good handle insert?
Of course i would pay for all the shipping expense and taxes to germany.

Thanx in advance.

Alex

Alex, my German friend you should create your own design and print it in 3D

Select to expand quote

charlieuk said..
I don't have any spare fcs handle but I have some older futures handles I could post to you

Hi Charlieuk,
i send you a PM.
Thank you.
Alex

So here are the first pics.

Work in Progress:

Plan for the fin setup (stolen from Naish Raptor)

What is the green stuff you stick on it and please where i can get some, did you bag it. Good job , specially done on the diamond tail

Alex i did'nt reply you about my compromise shape because I was not able to find a solution for you...so as you go on this shape shown here. I reckon there is not enough tail rocker to use it properly as a looseness surfboard . The only way to cure this problem is while installing side fins plugs is to put a lot more than 5% toe in as usually done.

sieht super aus, warte schon auf den ersten Fahrbericht!!!

(looks great can't wait to read your review after the first sessions)

Hi Kami,
the board is not shaped/build by myself, i'm just the "brain" behind the concept, it's build by a friend who has shaped/built roughly 20 windsurfboards "afterwork" and has the skills and craftmanship to work whit this stuff from his job, building large composite parts for camping cars, e.g. car fronts etc.

The green stuff is 3mm airex, it's bagged on top and bottom, also having a double sandwich at the standing area, like windurf waveboards have too.

The Tailrocker is a direct copy of the AHD Sealion 7'6, a board also used for supsurfing waves, so in combination with the more curved tail outline on my custom i hope it'll turn reasonable.
http://www.sealion.ahd-boards.com/2014/blog/un-peu-de-sealion-stand-up-paddle-quand-meme/4669

I'm hesitating to give the fins more Toe in since i fear it'll get slow/sluggish in winsup mode.
Regards, Alex

Thanks to make me know about Airex, i have to learn this building technology as well as bagging too
I did see once one Sealion few years ago, i remenber now it was large and deep twin fin more accurate to sail more than surfing though.
The good thing about Twin fin is the inherent looseness. So what i suggest as fin system is TWINZER done with MR plus GL. Because it's like twin fin but lot more drivey
I can suggest you right bases position fin.

Hi Kami,

i'd appreciate your setup for a twinzer.
You think quad is to stiff?
Rocker of the board is 2 1/5" at the tail and 5 1/4" at the nose.

Alex

Hi Alex, Finally I have no confirmed opinion on quad set up on Vangard style board by now It's a so grave concern. Your board seems to have a bit of hips so this should inducing looseness by itself. I cant see rocker from pictures here but I imagine it flat because of windsail option.
I did try that kind of outline and rocker this winter SUPing trip in Carribean Island with a prototype 7'26" ( went there with 4 boards...) and i found The 7'26" very stiff unable to put the board on rails. But have to say, I like to carve rather than gliding
Out of tropical sun under the shed of my local friend's house there, I drill and move fins plugs and cant find any fins position i would appreciate. This is why in last i suggest Twinzer as an option.
The white is the 7'26" with moved plugs and the red one tail under is my Twinzer , very good fins set up .






So to be pragmatic I suggest you to install severals fins option and to play with different fins templates, , like this for example:

Hi Kami,

your setup on the last pic of your red board looks to me almost like the setup of my board / the Naish Raptor.
I'll try that at first.

Last question remains which quad set from future tho choose:
Controller quad, EA quad or the AMT ???????

Alex

Hi Alex, I suggest you AMT with two trailers instead of single one or AE in case of kind of quad Raptor solution. Controllers might be too stiff for this Vangard outline.
Should ask Piros if he can ship over fins set to you
I suggest you too, to use FCS instead of Futures because if positions fins is badly installed, FCS plugs allow you to do move positioning as well as fins cant ( angle fins with bottom shape)
I hope that will help you

Hi Kami,
i want to stay with Future because they are stronger. If the position doesn't work i'll put in additional boxes, that is no problem.
Will try to get a AMT Quad Set, but it seems that will be a tough job with the limited offering of fins of our german shops.
Do you have a good source for Future fins in France?
AFAIK Piros is located in Australia, shipping fins to germany won't be cheap i guess!
Regards, Alex

Hello Alex, here the address www.viral-surf.com/fr/129-futures they will send to you what you want, I guess.
IMO, the best way to find and set best fins and positioning boxes is to show off as I picture it below. Cut out fins template in cardboard and show it on the board. Or compare with a board you have been surfing and loved it as the red one as shown on picture below.
Then decide of what kind of fins and their positions it is going fitted.
You can have some inspiration from www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/DEEP-Oceanboards-72-Minion-Review/?page=-2#lastpost . Ask tamarackjanito about his Controllers fins

I reckon fitting fins is the harder part while customized a board and absolutely more speaking about SUP

Now the next steps are in Progress.
Many finboxes, Center box rear is a Powerbox for Windsurfing, Center box front is a Deep Tuttle for a Foil.
On the Deck Foostrap inserts and a mastbox.

Great job.. thanks for the pictures.. What type of foil do you plan to use..

I'm about to order a foil from Gong because they designed it for a position in the board like i have now, or AHD has in their boards.
Most other foils like Horue are designed for use in boards having their original tuttleboxes at the very tail end of the board.
Alex

www.gong-galaxy.com/magazine/news/r-d-proto-windfoil/

The finished board 8 x 31", around 130 liters, 8,7 kg, Carbon Double Sandwich.
First SUP on the river felt amazing stable, like a Starboard 9' Converse, could have mastered smaller and thinner.
Windsurfing: the same stability, planing like a waveboard, sits on its rocker and lifts its nose up, but not sticking like a dedicated SUP and planing better than my AHD Sealion XL. Used a 8.2 qm Goya Nexus and a 43 cm fin.

Still missing: A Future quad set and a foil (Gong is still testing)

Waveriding has to wait until August, no waves at home, but then 4 weeks holiday in Portugal and Galizia ;-)

looks great,

have fun

sascha

Just back from my trip to Portugal.
Board works better than expected.

Very stable even in chop for my 90kg @ 190cm, nose punches easy through whitewater.
Takeoffs are easy, even if the nose is completely burried, the nose rocker and the the large area of the nose just push the nose back. Scary at first, but than you can rely on this behaviour.
After takeoff the board accelerates like no board i had before.
When on the tail the nose lifts up and keeps free off the water, you just surf the back half of the board, turning is nice but you have to be really back on the kickpad.

It feels like a 2-zone board with a decoupled front for stability and back for surfing.

Room to improve: A tiny bit more rocker at the rails and thinner, domed rails at the last 40 cm, the board doesn't need this area for stability.

Alex

Great.. Let us know how it windsurfs..

Windsurfing also works really good with the board, it can plane!

Had it out with a 8.2 sail on the lake and it feels like a big waveboard. It' s not a early planer like a freeride or slalomboard the same size, but it doesn't suck water like other higher rockered SUP boards. It planes with the nose lifted up, get's good speed and is fun to ride. Especially in the jibes, it's possible to get really tight turns for a board that size, using all the tail rocker. Never felt that on an large windsurf board.
In the waves it's also quite fun, slogging out and catching waves on the way in the board planes up easy on the wave and you can ride the wave frontside without forcing the board in the turns like it often felt on my other WindSups like the Sealion XL etc.
Good thing here is also like in SUP Surfing, that you don't have to fear nosedives at the cutback like with longer boards.
Me thinks that this anti nosedive magic comes a lot from the continous rocker getting flatter to the tail we build in the board, i guess a staged rockker with a flat midsection and more kick in nose and tail wouldn't do this the same.

Alex