Just purchased an sup board made not in Thailand but in china. It is a Gulliver 10' 6. I'm very happy with the board it is the best looking board on the beach and tough as nails. I was worried about construction but now that I have received the board I can't be happier. To all those who continue to only punt the well known brands like Naish and starboard I say open your minds, you will be pleasantly surprised by the great construction and shapes of some of the lesser known brands. Have fun

Strange first post but stoked for you!!

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London said..

Just purchased an sup board made not in Thailand but in china. It is a Gulliver 10' 6. I'm very happy with the board it is the best looking board on the beach and tough as nails. I was worried about construction but now that I have received the board I can't be happier. To all those who continue to only punt the well known brands like Naish and starboard I say open your minds, you will be pleasantly surprised by the great construction and shapes of some of the lesser known brands. Have fun

So it looks good but how does it surf, how does it paddle? How can you tell the construction is good without spending some time on it?
Just curious in how you can make these claims when you have only just bought it? Crap construction doesn't usually rear its head until you have been using it a while...On saying that I hope you are right...

Been discussed at length before

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/2010-Gulliver-paddle-boards-Quality-or-not/

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Gulliver-SUPs-All-Rounders/

So you have just bought your SUP, but already know about it's durability and construction. Is it your first board, and do you paddle flat water or ride waves? Time will tell.

As Paul said, strange first post, but welcome to the breeze.

Glad you're happy with it. Friend of mine bought a Gulliver 10'6 and I had a try on it. Surfs like a dog. Almost impossible to turn and weighs a ton. Be alright for cruising around though. That being said they are not a patch on the better known brands. Hate to burst your bubble but you'll know what I mean when you've tried a few others and get a bit more experience under your belt.

Hi London, what Paul means (and what most of us think by reading your post) is that you are just some Gulliver brand representative advertising his boards. If not, please elaborate to show us you are not a marketing robot...

We manufacture Indian Ocean paddle Surf boards out of china and the quality is very good
the boards surf well as can be seen by watching Dave Muir on the World Series
It is unfortunate that there is a lot of basic boards that come out of china that have no one behind the brand that surfs but are sold as surf boards
There are a number of brands that come out of china that worth checking out so don't be caught up with country of origin
It all about the board not the brand or origin

Am sure there are some good quality boards being sold under brand names no one has heard of.....but anyone who has made only one or two posts and is plugging a product has probably zero credibility on this forum. But am sure all will find this topic amusing rather than offensive :)

How true Gizzie, I am very amused.

ET.

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London said..

Just purchased an sup board made not in Thailand but in china. It is a Gulliver 10' 6. I'm very happy with the board it is the best looking board on the beach and tough as nails. I was worried about construction but now that I have received the board I can't be happier. To all those who continue to only punt the well known brands like Naish and starboard I say open your minds, you will be pleasantly surprised by the great construction and shapes of some of the lesser known brands. Have fun

I just bought a new goat, it was not from China though, it eats grass and ****s too.....

Which is probably just as relevant as your post about those boards .......

Hello folks!
I would like to introduce myself to the seebreeze SUP forums.
I am a mad Supaholic and also an industry rep. For that reason I will keep my status anonymous.
I have noticed some inaccurate comments and feel for the industries sake as a whole that the record need to be set straight.

Yes China makes cheap products. But China also makes the products for the best quality brands in the world.
Quality brands do not advertise that they are making products in China because of the stigma that comes attached.

In your industry this is quite prevalent. For example. Most of the top Surf and SUP hardware brands are based in Thailand French owned factory Cobra.
But almost all of these brands manufacture models in China factories too. They don't advertise it because of the negative stigma.

My job is to find factories for brand manufacturing for USA/ AUS/ EU clients so I have a strong education on this.

So its close to my heart when I hear people bagging the China manufacturing.
I want buyers to open their minds and ask better questions from their retailers instead of buying into the same old bag China routine.

These days the leading brands are also setting up factories in Burma Vietnam and South africa.

I just want to note that the industry HATED on the Thailand Cobra Factory for years too. Now they are appreciated as the best factory in the industry. Note they got this way as a result of western investment which also included up-skilling. The reason why China has had to catch up is because quite frankly no industry western experts wanted to live in China until the last 10 years. Now there are models coming out of China that I truly believe to be superior to the Thai made product. Wether you believe it or not will only be a matter of time.

To open your minds a little here is some info. Brands currently operating and making boards in China are as follows
Naish, JP Australia, Coreban, Jimmy Lewis, Surftech, Rivera, Hobie, Laird, BIC, Tahoe SUP including Gulliver are all making models in China.
JS , Rusty, Stretch, Strike along with numerous other big brand Surfboards are also making models in China
Epic, Fenn,Steller, Vadja and Think Ocean skis are making models in China including 80% of the leading Kayak/canoe brands are now manufactured in China.

See the trend guys.
The question you need ask is not what country it is made. That's a bit racist. Its more who manages that production?
How is it made and what materials are used?.

Other than design, the lead SUP brands point of difference is they mold a number of their models which means they achieve 5% less weight and maybe 10% added strength when using similar materials. And they chose wisely who they allow to manufacture and manage their production

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Wikibreeze said..

Hello folks!
I would like to introduce myself to the seebreeze SUP forums.
I am a mad Supaholic and also an industry rep. For that reason I will keep my status anonymous.
I have noticed some inaccurate comments and feel for the industries sake as a whole that the record need to be set straight.

Yes China makes cheap products. But China also makes the products for the best quality brands in the world.
Quality brands do not advertise that they are making products in China because of the stigma that comes attached.

In your industry this is quite prevalent. For example. Most of the top Surf and SUP hardware brands are based in Thailand French owned factory Cobra.
But almost all of these brands manufacture models in China factories too. They don't advertise it because of the negative stigma.

My job is to find factories for brand manufacturing for USA/ AUS/ EU clients so I have a strong education on this.

So its close to my heart when I hear people bagging the China manufacturing.
I want buyers to open their minds and ask better questions from their retailers instead of buying into the same old bag China routine.

These days the leading brands are also setting up factories in Burma Vietnam and South africa.

I just want to note that the industry HATED on the Thailand Cobra Factory for years too. Now they are appreciated as the best factory in the industry. Note they got this way as a result of western investment which also included up-skilling. The reason why China has had to catch up is because quite frankly no industry western experts wanted to live in China until the last 10 years. Now there are models coming out of China that I truly believe to be superior to the Thai made product. Wether you believe it or not will only be a matter of time.

To open your minds a little here is some info. Brands currently operating and making boards in China are as follows
Naish, JP Australia, Coreban, Jimmy Lewis, Surftech, Rivera, Hobie, Laird, BIC, Tahoe SUP including Gulliver are all making models in China.
JS , Rusty, Stretch, Strike along with numerous other big brand Surfboards are also making models in China
Epic, Fenn,Steller, Vadja and Think Ocean skis are making models in China including 80% of the leading Kayak/canoe brands are now manufactured in China.

See the trend guys.
The question you need ask is not what country it is made. That's a bit racist. Its more who manages that production?
How is it made and what materials are used?.

Other than design, the lead SUP brands point of difference is they mold a number of their models which means they achieve 5% less weight and maybe 10% added strength when using similar materials. And they chose wisely who they allow to manufacture and manage their production

Read back over the comments mate. Nobody bagged China or their ability to produce quality boards. The comments were about the importance of choosing a quality brand name, and perhaps someone should have a little knowledge under their belt before telling anyone how great their board is.

Really!
Wow give the poster a break
I read the links, did you?


I'm sure industry people come on here all the time pretending as aliases to plug product but I am sure you have non industry related people just happy to send a out support for what they truly feel to be a great product. Its seems unfortunate the trend on this site is to shoot down any person who plugs the board they love on their first post.

seems like there a bit of keyboard worrier localism here and maybe a bit of business/ brand protectionism.
Lighten up. Maybe allow people to express a little .

Keep in mind not everyone shares your opinions and deserves not to have their integrity questioned just for participating and offering an opinion.

Best to try to Keep it positive.
Aussies are a lot bet than this forum feed is showing

So, I have surfed a Gulliver 10'6. I believe that makes it ok for me to comment on it negatively. Have you tried one? If someone posts promoting a certain product then they should be prepared for comment both negative and positive. It's a forum. That's how they work. No, I didn't read all the links, just the comments on this page. On reading them again I still don't see anyone bagging China as a manufacturing centre. I'm happy to buy from China, or anywhere for that matter. I'd love to buy from a new start up that is producing great boards for a good price. Who wouldn't? And yes, there is promotion going on in these forums that are blatant industry plugs ... and they get taken to task for it. Again, that is how forums work.
Lastly, is it best to keep it positive as you suggest? People read this forum to get an idea of what their next board might be, or perhaps their first one. Are you suggesting that if we buy a crap board we should tell everyone how great it is so that everyone else can make the same mistake? It's almost impossible to demo the board they are interested in for most people and honest feedback is what we want and what I hope everyone gives.
And seriously, don't patronise us with your "Aussies are better than this" crap.

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Wikibreeze said..

Hello folks!
I would like to introduce myself to the seebreeze SUP forums.
I am a mad Supaholic and also an industry rep. For that reason I will keep my status anonymous.
I have noticed some inaccurate comments and feel for the industries sake as a whole that the record need to be set straight.

Yes China makes cheap products. But China also makes the products for the best quality brands in the world.
Quality brands do not advertise that they are making products in China because of the stigma that comes attached.

In your industry this is quite prevalent. For example. Most of the top Surf and SUP hardware brands are based in Thailand French owned factory Cobra.
But almost all of these brands manufacture models in China factories too. They don't advertise it because of the negative stigma.

My job is to find factories for brand manufacturing for USA/ AUS/ EU clients so I have a strong education on this.

So its close to my heart when I hear people bagging the China manufacturing.
I want buyers to open their minds and ask better questions from their retailers instead of buying into the same old bag China routine.

These days the leading brands are also setting up factories in Burma Vietnam and South africa.

I just want to note that the industry HATED on the Thailand Cobra Factory for years too. Now they are appreciated as the best factory in the industry. Note they got this way as a result of western investment which also included up-skilling. The reason why China has had to catch up is because quite frankly no industry western experts wanted to live in China until the last 10 years. Now there are models coming out of China that I truly believe to be superior to the Thai made product. Wether you believe it or not will only be a matter of time.

To open your minds a little here is some info. Brands currently operating and making boards in China are as follows
Naish, JP Australia, Coreban, Jimmy Lewis, Surftech, Rivera, Hobie, Laird, BIC, Tahoe SUP including Gulliver are all making models in China.
JS , Rusty, Stretch, Strike along with numerous other big brand Surfboards are also making models in China
Epic, Fenn,Steller, Vadja and Think Ocean skis are making models in China including 80% of the leading Kayak/canoe brands are now manufactured in China.

See the trend guys.
The question you need ask is not what country it is made. That's a bit racist. Its more who manages that production?
How is it made and what materials are used?.

Other than design, the lead SUP brands point of difference is they mold a number of their models which means they achieve 5% less weight and maybe 10% added strength when using similar materials. And they chose wisely who they allow to manufacture and manage their production

With all due respect here Wiki, I am not anonymous and do have what you may say is a strong connection to Thai production. I would advise that before you come to be the messenger of the truth on these issues that your facts are actually correct. There are a couple of truths in your post but much of your info is either very outdated or was never correct to begin with. I don't have time to correct each point or sing the virtues of Thai production either but please before you come online and try to be the Julian Assange of Seabreeze have your facts checked. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

Wikibreeze said..

Really!
Wow give the poster a break
I read the links, did you?


I'm sure industry people come on here all the time pretending as aliases to plug product but I am sure you have non industry related people just happy to send a out support for what they truly feel to be a great product. Its seems unfortunate the trend on this site is to shoot down any person who plugs the board they love on their first post.

seems like there a bit of keyboard worrier localism here and maybe a bit of business/ brand protectionism.
Lighten up. Maybe allow people to express a little .

Keep in mind not everyone shares your opinions and deserves not to have their integrity questioned just for participating and offering an opinion.

Best to try to Keep it positive.
Aussies are a lot bet than this forum feed is showing

Wanna buy a goat?

No Thanks Anto, I have no need for a GOAT.

But I have noticed that sometimes, some people make a GOAT of themselves.

ET.

Wikibreeze, are you the same person than "london" ? Sounds suspiciously like it :-)

wow!
really? thats your response. This is exactly what I was referring to
in my earlier comments about questioning ones integrity.
How about trying to add some sort of constructive educated response.
Good luck with this feed, this is where I bow out.

Later

A couple of things Wiki, you refer to yourself as "a supaholic and an industry rep" but on the other hand you refer to it as "your" meaning someone else's industry.

Also you are very quick to point out the other brands that manufacture in China yet won't mention who you work for, is that because of the stigma attached to Chinese factories and you don't want your brand affected?

Hey guys, had to chime in here.......

China isn't the problem......not that anyone said it was.

Well known brand name manufacturing in China will have decent production.

The issue are these fly by night guys who have never surfed in their life who suddenly decide to start producing SUPs with a max-profit view (it is one of the fastest growing industries after all). You then end up with a very poorly made board whose claim to fame is that "it floats".

I recently purchased a [very] small brand china board. It isn't great. But I bought it knowing that - it was a tester for me. Thankfully the company owner who resides in Oz has been very good about it - I'm currently waiting for my 2nd replacement (for less than perfect manufacture).

I will more than likely buy a well known brand in the next week or so (I can see I need to have a long chat with DJ); and demote this current board to the family and friends bucket......I should mention though that the board is a heck of a lot of fun and it DID teach me to SUP!

Do your research and know what you're getting. I have found all the guys on here to be incredibly helpful (and knowledgable) when it comes to boards. If you still aren't sure, a well known surf/SUP shop will sort you out!

Cheers
Adam

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Wikibreeze said..

Hello folks!
I would like to introduce myself to the seebreeze SUP forums.
I am a mad Supaholic and also an industry rep. For that reason I will keep my status anonymous.
I have noticed some inaccurate comments and feel for the industries sake as a whole that the record need to be set straight.

Yes China makes cheap products. But China also makes the products for the best quality brands in the world.
Quality brands do not advertise that they are making products in China because of the stigma that comes attached.

In your industry this is quite prevalent. For example. Most of the top Surf and SUP hardware brands are based in Thailand French owned factory Cobra.
But almost all of these brands manufacture models in China factories too. They don't advertise it because of the negative stigma.

My job is to find factories for brand manufacturing for USA/ AUS/ EU clients so I have a strong education on this.

So its close to my heart when I hear people bagging the China manufacturing.
I want buyers to open their minds and ask better questions from their retailers instead of buying into the same old bag China routine.

These days the leading brands are also setting up factories in Burma Vietnam and South africa.

I just want to note that the industry HATED on the Thailand Cobra Factory for years too. Now they are appreciated as the best factory in the industry. Note they got this way as a result of western investment which also included up-skilling. The reason why China has had to catch up is because quite frankly no industry western experts wanted to live in China until the last 10 years. Now there are models coming out of China that I truly believe to be superior to the Thai made product. Wether you believe it or not will only be a matter of time.

To open your minds a little here is some info. Brands currently operating and making boards in China are as follows
Naish, JP Australia, Coreban, <span class="spnSearchHighlight" id="hilite">Jimmy</span> <span class="spnSearchHighlight" id="hilite">Lewis</span>, Surftech, Rivera, Hobie, Laird, BIC, Tahoe SUP including Gulliver are all making models in China.
JS , Rusty, Stretch, Strike along with numerous other big brand Surfboards are also making models in China
Epic, Fenn,Steller, Vadja and Think Ocean skis are making models in China including 80% of the leading Kayak/canoe brands are now manufactured in China.

See the trend guys.
The question you need ask is not what country it is made. That's a bit racist. Its more who manages that production?
How is it made and what materials are used?.

Other than design, the lead SUP brands point of difference is they mold a number of their models which means they achieve 5% less weight and maybe 10% added strength when using similar materials. And they chose wisely who they allow to manufacture and manage their production

Jimmy Lewis is not produced in factories in China, but the shift from Taiwan to Vietnam's "Kinetic"

This was my first post on sea breeze and to be honest it put me off posting anything again . I have no affiliation with any manufacturer. I was just stoked with my new SUP and I still am . A great board that works excellently for me. ideal for flat water and surfing small haves. I have had many compliments on the look of the board. Is it a hard core wave board. No definitely not, I use my surfboard if I want o surf decent waves. This board is for fun with family and kids on beach. Paddling around the point on a hot sunny day. Surfing the 1-2 foot rollers on the way in. The build seems good but I do agree I will only know how well it lasts after a few years. What upset me when I was looking for a general all round board was that the shop keepers of the local retail store told me All boards from china are rubbish , have a bad build quality and bad shape. I don't believe this is true. I believe it is just something shop keepers say to sell boards. Anyway my learning is don't always listen to retail shop assistants and everybody has a different view.

But London.....regular breeze forum participants often see a "first time poster" plugging a particular brand.
You gotta harden up and if as you say you are just a regular guy.....keep on posting so we can get to know you better
....and we usually "welcome to the breeze"

Also, what was suspicious was how you could judge the construction quality of a new board. Come back in some months telling us how it stood the test of time... leaks in the handle? fin boxes? you don't know how resistant is until you ding it :-)

Not all boards in china are rubbish...but these are. I have seen so many issues with these its not funny.
If you are ever going to require any performance from the board, you'll be disappointed.
If you ever want to sell it, you'll be disappointed.
If you ever take it in any waves you will see creases and cracks.

How is it possible to think that a couple of dudes can make a board in a CNC machine in china and compare it to a board that 20 of some of the worlds mot elite waterman have spent years teaching down to the mm.

You will never see a CNC cut board as strong as a moulded board whilst maintaining the same wight.

I've had a couple of boards from these guys a few years back first one failed in the surf , fell forward and put a huge split with my knee through the deck, they replaced and second one was know better, some guys I know have had some more recent boards and I think they are improving, but for mine they are fine for a flat water weekend cruiser, but in the surf not durable enough, having said that hats of to the guys at Gulliver they stood buy there product and did the right thing by me in addressing the issue , certainly didn't hide from it

Well London, you keep plugging that Gulliver board and still with very little knowledge. You say great construction and shape ..... well the others have talked about construction so I will talk about shape. As I have said previously I have surfed that board and other boards up around the 10'6 mark. The shape of the board will determine how well it surfs. Board shaping is an art form and I hate to tell you that compared to other big boards from China, Thailand and Vietnam the Gulliver 10'6 surfs like a dog. Wack a dog on the end of it and go for a paddle and then you have what it is suited for. This is not personal mate, just honest comment on a topic you have raised. If you are going to push a certain board you need to be prepared for people to comment on their experiences with it too.

Hi I am little confused could do with a little assistance.
I'm researching. I'm not trying to be the best waterman nor am I looking for great surf performance from a 10'6 purchase. I think I speak for the majority when I say I'm looking for an easy to rid durable board mostly for flat water. I'd also like to take out in small waves on the odd occasion.

Talk about confusion, CNC cuts, molds, Vietnam, Thailand and China boards and hitting dogs ...all over my head mate?

But now since your posts I have read in the forums that almost all blanks are CNC cut before going to mold. Is this true? what is your experience regarding the making of these boards please as i'm seeing some contradictions?
I have also read that there are hand laminations that are lighter and stronger (depending on materials) than the average Naish. Is this true please?
I have also read it takes less than hour to copy any SUP shape put onto shaping software and cut on a cmc cutting machine. Is this true?
Who makes the boards and how are they made please? Looks like there are about 30 different boards with different constructions it's a bit hard to know whats what here. Surely not all the boards are the same? I have looked up this website at the boards you are referring to. You mention creases and cracks. what size and model/ series board are you referring to please and what is the year model as I have seen in my research that a brands products differ from year to year as far a quality/shape goes.

Hope you can assist as I'm not really feeling any the wiser after reading the forums for hours
Would really appreciate if someone could take the time to post or email (as I don't like to participate in public negative feedback) me some answers to the above questions as this site is not easy to navigate between all the obvious industry related territorial comments and innuendo and so forth. . Would love to minimise the research time and not get caught up in politics please.

Cheers and thanks

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grimmosan said..

Hi I am little confused could do with a little assistance.
I'm researching. I'm not trying to be the best waterman nor am I looking for great surf performance from a 10'6 purchase. I think I speak for the majority when I say I'm looking for an easy to rid durable board mostly for flat water. I'd also like to take out in small waves on the odd occasion.

Talk about confusion, CNC cuts, molds, Vietnam, Thailand and China boards and hitting dogs ...all over my head mate?

But now since your posts I have read in the forums that almost all blanks are CNC cut before going to mold. Is this true? what is your experience regarding the making of these boards please as i'm seeing some contradictions?
I have also read that there are hand laminations that are lighter and stronger (depending on materials) than the average Naish. Is this true please?
I have also read it takes less than hour to copy any SUP shape put onto shaping software and cut on a cmc cutting machine. Is this true?
Who makes the boards and how are they made please? Looks like there are about 30 different boards with different constructions it's a bit hard to know whats what here. Surely not all the boards are the same? I have looked up this website at the boards you are referring to. You mention creases and cracks. what size and model/ series board are you referring to please and what is the year model as I have seen in my research that a brands products differ from year to year as far a quality/shape goes.

Hope you can assist as I'm not really feeling any the wiser after reading the forums for hours
Would really appreciate if someone could take the time to post or email (as I don't like to participate in public negative feedback) me some answers to the above questions as this site is not easy to navigate between all the obvious industry related territorial comments and innuendo and so forth. . Would love to minimise the research time and not get caught up in politics please.

Cheers and thanks

Hi grimmosan,

A moulded board means that the core (EPS ie. expanded poly-styrene) is blown out and expanded to the shape of the mould. This means that all of the beads of styrene foam are fully in tact and in their whole entirety.(a closed cellular structure) Now if we look at a machine cut board, we start with a block of foam and then start shaving away at it. The second we cut through that foam, we are compromising the strength of the foam core. Just like a honey comb structure, its super rigid until we start taking out some links then it all falls apart. Now we all know that strength from any board comes predominantly from its core. Glass definitely adds strength but also adds a lot of weight. As I said in my previous comment, to get the weight of a moulded board into a machine cut board, it is impossible to match the strength.
If you've done a bit of surfing I'm sure you would have come across Surftech surfboards, many of these are made in the same process.

How often do you see a used DHD or chilli or any other big name brand surfboard (epoxy or not) with tonnes of compressions in the deck. All the time. I take my brand new surfboards out and 3 surfs later and i have a scattering of compression. Is it practical to make an SUP in the same process as we make surfboard but expect different results?... No. So if you make a SUP the same way a surfboard is made, expect compressions, knees going through decks, fin boxes being pulled out, de-laminations and the rest.

Now when we talk about quality of fibreglass and resins...where does the list end. There are that many different types of resins and not only thicknesses of glass by huge differences in quality also. Imagine you go to get a tailored shirt, you can get tonnes of different materials, different thread counts, different stitching options, different treated materials, pre-streched and no pre-streched fabrics, different buttons etc. Obviously as you get into better quality stuff you pay more. SUP's are exactly the same. Boards costing more are using far better materials. Don't be fooled that a board costing half the price is the same quality as some of the better name brands mentioned when your paying far more.

Another huge difference of a better built board is re-enforcements in the board. Depending on the particular construction of board, but we often see things such as PVC layered re-enforcement in the decks, all big name brands re-enforce all extremities of the board such as handles, fins, vent plugs etc. This is done using a far higher density foam (often 'divinycell') to stop anything from rolling or moving where it shouldn't.

Then it extents the the externals of the boards, fins, paints, clear coats, UV coatings, deck drips and once again the list goes on. A billion different quality options. Just pay the extra and get the goods.

Im not even going to get started on shape. ha!

When was the last time you heard someone say a Great wall is better than a Toyota? Doesn't happen. Should never happen with SUP's either.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Marcel

Thanks Marcel for the assistance. It's much appreciated
On a final note. I am just a beginner, does a SUPs surfing shape and being indestructible have much to do with it's flat water performance. As I am mainly interested in that? Thats why I am looking at a 10'6 All-Rounder. And also are we referring to the same brand GULLIVER as they are not cheap anywhere online? The cheapest one I found was a $1450 for the board only and the shop wasn't prepared to budge on the price.
Also are you able to tell me what board size year model you own or owned in that brand, as there is heaps on their site and they all seem constructed differently. Do they actually make their own boards or do you know who makes this brand. Are they made in OZ?
Thanks again mate