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grimmosan said..
Does a SUPs surfing shape and being indestructible have much to do with it's flat water performance. As I am mainly interested in that?

As well as surfing shapes there is a LOT that goes into a the shape of flat water performance in SUP's. But don't listen to me, take a Naish or Fanatic or Starboard for a demo and then try a Gulliver. You will never look back.
Keep in mind, resale value on most cheaper brand boards are non existent or minimal. Some store will even refuse to trade these boards and I'm pretty confident that Gulliver would never buy back a 2nd hand one.

Im not sure on cost but if they are $1450 that is even more reason to pay $50 more and get a board that will hold its value, that will sell easily, that is lighter, stronger and performs better in the surf and in the flats!

Gullivers are run out of the Gold Coast, made in China.

Usually (not always, but most of the time) any board with bamboo is a china rubbish. Most good boards run a pine or similar veneer.

Unfortunately this forum still spewing out inaccurate information. Seems there is a bit of industry related brand bashing going on and call me cynical but I'd say London is in on it as he keeps coming back for it.

So lets talk EPS facts instead of opinions or misimformation

EPS from Big Concrete Molds
Yes cheaper factories use blanks cut from huge concrete 10m x 10m+ EPS molds. But so do a lot of high-end factories including ones on US and Aussie soil. The process involves a company hotwiring rectangles (blanks) off the large blocks. Then the blank is put on the CNC machine for cutting down to 95% of the finish shape. The final shaping of the board is done by hand. This is cost measure because machines are now able to cut the blank to 100% but this takes a lot longer which slows production. Yes there is a downfall of using foam from big block molds. That being the foam consistency/density has the potential to be higher in the middle and lower towards the outside of the big EPS block. There can be a 4% variation in density. Yes this can cause problems. But this can be identified if there are good QC officers on the floor weighing the blanks.

EPS from Mid Size Steel molds
This is how the majority of lead brands make the majority of their boards. These are smaller steel molds approximately 5m long by 30cm thick and costing excess of USD $20,000. The benefit to using these smaller blank molds is that the EPS bead density is more consistent than that of the bigger concrete block molds thus limiting the EPS wastage factor. These blanks are put on the cnc machine, and then finished shaped before hand-vacuum glassing or mold where glass/ PVC/ Divinycell and filler expanding resin etc is applied.

EPS Model Specific Molds
These are mainly used in the wake kite/industry. SUP Molds of this type are extremely expensive and rare. The reason being SUPs are big and brands have so many boards in a range and are often upgrading the shape annually. The margin is not there for a brand like Naish to make a blank mold for every shape in a range as this would fetch into the millions. Which poses the question, with 70% of Naish?s boards being All-rounders that never see the ocean what specific board models do you think they are molding. Do you think they are moulding blanks for their race or surfing SUPs? NO!

Now the China cheap argument.
The materials a factory uses usually depend on brands instructions. For example the SUP ATX brand made in Dragonfly selling $900 online boards are not going to export resin and materials from the USA to China to make their boards are they? But interestingly enoughthey do. You also would have to assume that JP Australia is a leading brand to and would only use the best materials, yet a container full of soft boards with resin issues last year landed in Australia. Go figure, I let you read into that.

Regarding the question re the Gulliver Brand. They mass produce boards in a closed off factory in Shenzhen. Not sure if GULLIVER owns or makes their own boards themselves there but the factory is run by Aussies. The same factory is making boards for Laird Hamiltons Bob Pearson brand called Laird. Gulliver also makes boards in OZZIE with the Dolphin surf factory in queensland.

Regarding the Great Wall/Toyota analogy above. Well if you go to china these days you will see there is luxury European branded cars everywhere and they are cheap too. Do you think they are cheap because they use cheap materials?? I don?t think so. They are cheap because they are actually made in China now as well. The reason why you don't know is its just not a great marketing strategy to promote the fact you are manufacturing a product in China because it has a poor reputation.

Happy reading!

Thanks again Marcel,
I was really hoping for more constructive positive help. Seemed a little biased so rather than repeating the same questions on this forum I went and saw the guys at Australian Waterman. They sell the Gullivers where I live. It was shut but the owner Gully let me in while he was waiting for a delivery or something. Strange enough what I saw at the shop was pretty much the opposite to what I read earlier. For starters there was a dozen or more 2nd hand boards for me to try or buy for around $900 which is in my budget. I was also shown Gold Coast made Carbon- annegera boards, well out of my budget though. But man they were really nice. Hard as a rock. What really impressed me was they had a crap load of shape samples in the racks that he said they were testing. Some of the shapes were really out there. Not all my cup of tea but still I found it interesting how much R and D goes into designing. Anyway learnt a lot and really appreciated time Gully gave me despite me asking probably way to many stupid questions. The highlight was the black race carbon board in the roof. Its was beautiful.He took it down for me. It we weighed it 9kg or something like that. Loved it. But again bit over my budget. But if I had the coin I be all over it. Well maybe more off it and in the water.
thanks

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grimmosan said..

Thanks again Marcel,
I was really hoping for more constructive positive help. Seemed a little biased so rather than repeating the same questions on this forum I went and saw the guys at Australian Waterman. They sell the Gullivers where I live. It was shut but the owner Gully let me in while he was waiting for a delivery or something. Strange enough what I saw at the shop was pretty much the opposite to what I read earlier. For starters there was a dozen or more 2nd hand boards for me to try or buy for around $900 which is in my budget. I was also shown Gold Coast made Carbon- annegera boards, well out of my budget though. But man they were really nice. Hard as a rock. What really impressed me was they had a crap load of shape samples in the racks that he said they were testing. Some of the shapes were really out there. Not all my cup of tea but still I found it interesting how much R and D goes into designing. Anyway learnt a lot and really appreciated time Gully gave me despite me asking probably way to many stupid questions. The highlight was the black race carbon board in the roof. Its was beautiful.He took it down for me. It we weighed it 9kg or something like that. Loved it. But again bit over my budget. But if I had the coin I be all over it. Well maybe more off it and in the water.
thanks

Im stoked that you've found a board that will make you happy. That what its all about.

I still stand by everything I said, R and D should be done by the worlds best riders that have skill to feel differences of mm under their feet so when others come to ride it, boards just feel incredible.

I would love to heap some feedback in 6 months time on how it is going.

Happy paddling.

And I think you hit the nail on the head cel23

I've got a china board, a 10'6 complete with [oh dear] a bamboo deck. It's heavy but I love it.

I've since moved on to its smaller brother, a 9'3 from the same factory. Guess what, even MORE fun and I smile every wave I catch on it. More than smile, I sometimes let out whoops of joy after a particularly good wave.

I've used the 10'6 almost everyday since late Dec and it still looks new - so can't complain about that. I only wish it was lighter but that's just me being a lazy git.

Pretty shortly the same [aussie] guy who designed both the above China boards will be hand making me a wave specific matchstick right here in Oz. Until then, I'm in love with the China special 9'3!

A lot of people get so swept up in marketing and branding hoopla - just get out there and paddle, on anything you can get your hands on!


Cheers
Adam

Just saw this in fb and thought of this thread

hah

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RJK said..





Just saw this in fb and thought of this thread

a this is great!

Where do you guys think the winner of the Sydney to Hobart was made?

Chinese quality can be poor but they are catching up very very quickly. I can remember some pretty crappy corolla's but now toyota leads the market.

Be warned give these guys time.

I have also seen some awesome boards and SUPs coming from Vietnam. Asia is coming.

since we're on the topic of China boards has anyone used or have feedback from this company, it seems to be a relatively new company.

honu.com.au/

I'm new to SUP and to the country and obviously would like to save a few dollars so any feedback would be great!

No contact details, address or phone number, only an email address. I wouldn't buy one.

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MacerHD said..

since we're on the topic of China boards has anyone used or have feedback from this company, it seems to be a relatively new company.

honu.com.au/

I'm new to SUP and to the country and obviously would like to save a few dollars so any feedback would be great!

A mate bought one. They're cheap. He sold it within a couple of months and bought a Naish. My advice? Cut out the middle man.

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MacerHD said..

since we're on the topic of China boards has anyone used or have feedback from this company, it seems to be a relatively new company.

honu.com.au/

I'm new to SUP and to the country and obviously would like to save a few dollars so any feedback would be great!

Hi MacerHD,
I've had a Honu for about six months and it's great. Firstly, the price point allowed me to get a SUP - I'd still be waiting otherwise. i've seen a number of people with the same board around where I paddle, so despite all the rants on this thread, cheaper boards will help the SUP market grow. That said, the board is really well constructed and looks far better in the flesh than the photos reveal. i've clocked close to 100 hours and haven't had any problems with the quality at all. Service from the Honu guys was top notch - they delivered it themselves, although this might change if they're shifting more boards. The board suits my purpose of paddling around sydney harbour and a little bit of light surf. Great for fitness and getting outdoors. One piece of advice, ditch the paddle that comes with it and spend some money on a better. Good luck with your decision.

Its pretty obvious that at least 3 of these people that are new are creating fake debate and stoking the fires. You can tell they are not native English speakers by the way they use language. Sounds like all the emails I get from my Chinese project leaders, engineers and suppliers.

Thanks for the input, I'll keep looking for a decent used one! Good tip on the fact that they don't have a real way of communicating.

Thanks again!

Gotta love forums for diversity of opinions!

This topic has been thrashed to death before on here and the same conclusions are usually drawn at the end.
Where the board is made is irrelevant, as most brands source boards from China.
Every country can produce crap and any growing sport attracts cowboys, so if ever 'buyer beware' had weight, it is right now in this sport.

The best advise around this topic, given many times on this forum is that 9/10 you are best buying a good second hand board from an established brand with a trading history and you will always be streets ahead of some shiny, shiny new thing from a brand you have only just heard of.

The other gem, dropped a few times is that 'the poor man ends up paying the most'.
Buying the cheapest often costs you more in the long run.

SUP is a long and rewarding journey if you take the right path. Strike up a relationship with a local dealer with a good reputation, who you feel comfortable with and he will save you bucket loads by reducing the number of board up-grades you need to keep a big smile on your face.