Select to expand quote

chucktheskiffie said..
Coxy who is doing these installs?

Central coast SUP repairs is doing them on the central coast and has a pick up and delivery to a certain distance !

Select to expand quote

roachy said..
coxy are they all just double surfboard finboxes , fitted , obviously high density foam and carbon?

Don't wanna give away all my secrets, but do your research with the box's only really one box is up to the task..
Had a few different issues with different box's over the years with kite foiling..
Zero failure rate with the sups so far (touch wood)

Select to expand quote

chucktheskiffie said..
Coxy who is doing these installs?

I'm doing them, based on south coast nsw..
boatbuilder/shipwright by trade..
specialise in carbon/epoxy /vacuum/infusion tech..
Got quite a few boards under the arm now with zero faliures..
weight wise I'm around 900g to 1450g for conversion depending on board thicknesses..
Like anything,Do your research before you let anybody chop into your 2k plus board!!

Select to expand quote

roachy said..
coxy are they all just double surfboard finboxes , fitted , obviously high density foam and carbon?

No they are a Chinook windsurf box , very different from a USA style fin box , much deeper to take a T nut and way stronger.

https://chinooksailing.com/index.php/10-fin-box.html

Plenty of guys stock them in Aus "Surf Sail Aust" & "Burford Blanks" are a couple.

Or try these Stick on mounts.

Select to expand quote

coxy31 said..

roachy said..
coxy are they all just double surfboard finboxes , fitted , obviously high density foam and carbon?

Don't wanna give away all my secrets, but do your research with the box's only really one box is up to the task..
Had a few different issues with different box's over the years with kite foiling..
Zero failure rate with the sups so far (touch wood)

Yeh I've used the chinook boxes as well and testing these 30% glass boxes with recessed 4mm lip with the carbon and e class glass matt over the lip ! They fit the nuts and are deep the same as the chinook boxes even the same glass percentage in the box in manufacturing

Select to expand quote

coxy31 said..

chucktheskiffie said..
Coxy who is doing these installs?

I'm doing them, based on south coast nsw..
boatbuilder/shipwright by trade..
specialise in carbon/epoxy /vacuum/infusion tech..
Got quite a few boards under the arm now with zero faliures..
weight wise I'm around 900g to 1450g for conversion depending on board thicknesses..
Like anything,Do your research before you let anybody chop into your 2k plus board!!

how much are the conversions

Do you think it's a MUST to have the reinforced mastboxes installed or would footstrap plugs with metal inserts like Flikka is using, properly installed, do the job too?
Flikka has them under a double sandwich and for me this looks solid.
http://www.flikkaboards.com/photos/
I loose the trimm option, ok, but ist this essential?

Reason for doing this is that i get a custom WindSup with a rear positioned tuttlebox for windfoiling with a dedicated windfoil.
I want to avoid a second tuttlebox or doublerails for weight reasons, so the idea with the footstrap plugs.
Do board is a concept like the Naish Hover Crossover or F-One Papenoo.

Alex

I can't see footstrap plugs working because IMO you'd need a big block of heavy duty foam put in first.. preferably through to the deck.. glassed over.. and then try the footstrap plugs.. Just as much trouble if not more than putting two boxes in or a tuttle.. The only cheap/quick method is the stick on plate.

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..
Do you think it's a MUST to have the reinforced mastboxes installed or would footstrap plugs with metal inserts like Flikka is using, properly installed, do the job too?
Flikka has them under a double sandwich and for me this looks solid.
http://www.flikkaboards.com/photos/
I loose the trimm option, ok, but ist this essential?

Reason for doing this is that i get a custom WindSup with a rear positioned tuttlebox for windfoiling with a dedicated windfoil.
I want to avoid a second tuttlebox or doublerails for weight reasons, so the idea with the footstrap plugs.
Do board is a concept like the Naish Hover Crossover or F-One Papenoo.

Alex

It will work (for abit 10mins)
I converted a board last week with the assistance of Jb's numbers using a 10inch track and the Naish 8 hole plate system achieved the rite numbers for a windsurfing/sup crossover

Select to expand quote

coxy31 said..

AlexF said..
Do you think it's a MUST to have the reinforced mastboxes installed or would footstrap plugs with metal inserts like Flikka is using, properly installed, do the job too?
Flikka has them under a double sandwich and for me this looks solid.
http://www.flikkaboards.com/photos/
I loose the trimm option, ok, but ist this essential?

Reason for doing this is that i get a custom WindSup with a rear positioned tuttlebox for windfoiling with a dedicated windfoil.
I want to avoid a second tuttlebox or doublerails for weight reasons, so the idea with the footstrap plugs.
Do board is a concept like the Naish Hover Crossover or F-One Papenoo.

Alex

It will work (for abit 10mins)
I converted a board last week with the assistance of Jb's numbers using a 10inch track and the Naish 8 hole plate system achieved the rite numbers for a windsurfing/sup crossover

Hi all,
Thanx for your answers.
My engineer mind now is trying to sort the arguments. Please help me, if i'm wrong.
1. In Supfoiling the main stress are the forces pushing upwards, plate against bottom (therefore the hardfoam block to the deck)
2. No down pulling forces, almost no sideways pushing or pulling forces like in windfoiling (otherwise the stick on platemount wouldn't work)
3. Max. Load on the Sup plate is rider + board weight, maybe a little pointloaded over the platearea.
4. In windsurfing, landing a high jump on the heel leads to high pushing pointloads on the board, waveboards usually have doublesandwich and a extra layer carbon there, to spread the load to a larger area of the EPS.
5. The loads of a 90 kg rider getting lifted by a foil or landing a jump on the heel are about equal
6. The pulling forces on footstrap plug when landing a jump, twisting or crashing are max. about 25 kg per screw
7. The pulling forces of a Supfoil on a platemount per screw are not higher than that in windsurfing
8. EPS foams for SUPS have usually a lower density than for Windsurf boards

So my conclusion was that a construction that takes the forces of wave windsurfing could also withstand the forces of a supfoil on a plate.
I also read in a kite forum that a guy successfully installed wooden bars with nuts in them on several converted kite waveboards. He put the wood bars in with some glass and glassed it over with 3 layers. Seems to work, too.

Alex

I have seen a few ways done and one of those is using 4 prong t nut in a sheet of ply and then laminated booth sides with glass. Personally I never put wood into boards so do a high density foam install which is 35mm thick using futures boxes. you can go all the way to the deck with the foam but I have not found the need to and its adds a fare bit of weight. Just laminate under and around the insert and on to the bottom.

Has anyone used their twobox-converted SUP for classic Surfing and has felt some additional drag due to the open us-boxes disturbing the waterflow?

Maybe i found the solution for the option of occasionally mounting a Supfoil that is light (when not in use), fairly easy to install (esp. on a custom board being build from scratch) and doesn't disturb waterflow/induces drag when windfoiling (using the rear tuttlebox) or classic Supsurfing:

http://foil2board.com/foil2board-idea/

It looks like a combination of stick-on foilmount and a deck-to-bottom "box" with 4 carbon screw rods.
What do you think?

Alex
P.S.
Please tell me if my notorious posts on this issue stress your nerves.
I don't want to end up like the guy with the foil mounted too far forward ;-)

Hey guys, thought I would post up my setup and introduce myself. I go by, "Newps" (local's slang for surfing in Newport Beach, CA). I am mostly on, "The Zone", however I am always looking for additional information on everything foiling.
I elected to have my old L41 SIMSUP 7'8" x 31" x 4 1/2" 122L. Model type is a mash up of several models. I believe Kurt was experimenting with several idea's when he made this board. I bought it used from the 2nd owner (Kurt being the 1st).
I had King's Paddleboards install one of their "King Tut" deep Tuttle box installed. Their installation process of the "King Tut" box is extensive, composing of fiberglass and carbon fiber sheets. Also elected to have them install the inserts for foot straps front and rear. Tried the foot straps but did not like them. If I were to do it over again I would have skipped the straps and saved the money.

King's is developing their own foil. The one I currently have is a prototype. Composite mast 20", aluminum fuselage (most liking changing to a carbon fiber composite), Carbon fiber covered EPS foam front and rear wings.
What drew me to King's foil over the others was the ability to shim, adjust, replace, swap / upgrade and all the parts. You can adjust the angle of attack on the rear foil for different boards and rider's weight or shim the fuselage to achieve front positive, rear positive or even foot pressure. Want a different mast height? No problem, every part can be swapped out or replaced due to damage. As the surf/sup foil technology evolves or the situation changes it's nice to just swap parts out.

For me personally, I am still in the steep learning curve with about 10 sessions foiling. Unfortunately for me they have all been on different setups (board, mast heights, and F&R wings). I have about 3 sessions on the current set up (board, mast, fuselage, front and rear wings). A new fuselage will be ready this week, which will shave a few pounds off the old aluminum one. I had a few hours behind a boat with a different set up. I believe this to be the best way to learn the basics of foiling. Most importantly you can dial in your foot position and mark it on your board. Once you get in the surf it's really difficult to dial in your foot position. It can be done but it takes a lot of time and a lot of crashes.

Alex those plugs look good a mate of mine set one up like that bit over a year ago still going strong.

Newps that set up looks pretty good a bit hard to tell from the pics but is that mast leaning back a touch . Really important it runs 90 degrees to the deck and not follow the bottom rocker of the board.

Hi Newps, like Piros said, it looks like your foil wing may have a negative angle relative to the water surface while paddling. Try to adjust it with shims / washers.

Learning to foil is not easy, I'd advise you stay with a proven setup and do not change it while learning, too many variables will slow down your progress.

As you found out, the position of the front foot is key. You must put your front foot on the stringer, and most importantly not move it whatever happens.
I would advise straps (at least the front strap) to be sure to have the front foot in always the same position, but otherwise, try to have some marker underfoot for the front foot position: put some raised pad there for instance. Or try "half straps" (hooks) like www.northshoreinc.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=243
I understand some people do not want to use straps, and that's fine, but you should then plan some towed time, and once having the balance dialed, try to let go the rope, as it is a different balance with the rope traction.

Select to expand quote

Piros said..
Alex those plugs look good a mate of mine set one up like that bit over a year ago still going strong.

Newps that set up looks pretty good a bit hard to tell from the pics but is that mast leaning back a touch . Really important it runs 90 degrees to the deck and not follow the bottom rocker of the board.

The photo on the grass was taken before I shimmed the fuselage to run parallel with the deck.

Select to expand quote

colas said..
Hi Newps, like Piros said, it looks like your foil wing may have a negative angle relative to the water surface while paddling. Try to adjust it with shims / washers.

Learning to foil is not easy, I'd advise you stay with a proven setup and do not change it while learning, too many variables will slow down your progress.

As you found out, the position of the front foot is key. You must put your front foot on the stringer, and most importantly not move it whatever happens.
I would advise straps (at least the front strap) to be sure to have the front foot in always the same position, but otherwise, try to have some marker underfoot for the front foot position: put some raised pad there for instance. Or try "half straps" (hooks) like www.northshoreinc.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=243
I understand some people do not want to use straps, and that's fine, but you should then plan some towed time, and once having the balance dialed, try to let go the rope, as it is a different balance with the rope traction.

I am work on a solution for my front foot placement. Should be done in a day or so.

Found a new mount system that certainly allows a much bigger range of movement to experiment with :- www.foil2board.com
Uses four plug type mounts, then a removable plate.

Select to expand quote

hagblade said..

coxy31 said..

roachy said..
coxy are they all just double surfboard finboxes , fitted , obviously high density foam and carbon?

Don't wanna give away all my secrets, but do your research with the box's only really one box is up to the task..
Had a few different issues with different box's over the years with kite foiling..
Zero failure rate with the sups so far (touch wood)

Yeh I've used the chinook boxes as well and testing these 30% glass boxes with recessed 4mm lip with the carbon and e class glass matt over the lip ! They fit the nuts and are deep the same as the chinook boxes even the same glass percentage in the box in manufacturing

10" Chinook boxes seem to be hard to get in europe atm.
My boardbuilder wants to use these Shaper finboxes:
shapers.com.au/10-fin-box/

Does anybody have good/bad experience with them?

Alex

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..

hagblade said..

coxy31 said..

roachy said..
coxy are they all just double surfboard finboxes , fitted , obviously high density foam and carbon?

Don't wanna give away all my secrets, but do your research with the box's only really one box is up to the task..
Had a few different issues with different box's over the years with kite foiling..
Zero failure rate with the sups so far (touch wood)

Yeh I've used the chinook boxes as well and testing these 30% glass boxes with recessed 4mm lip with the carbon and e class glass matt over the lip ! They fit the nuts and are deep the same as the chinook boxes even the same glass percentage in the box in manufacturing

10" Chinook boxes seem to be hard to get in europe atm.
My boardbuilder wants to use these Shaper finboxes:
shapers.com.au/10-fin-box/

Does anybody have good/bad experience with them?

Alex

Use the Futures Strongbox 10.75 inch over the shapers one, they are molded in one piece compared to some others.. lots of guys are using these in Australia for the conversions

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..

hagblade said..

coxy31 said..

roachy said..
coxy are they all just double surfboard finboxes , fitted , obviously high density foam and carbon?

Don't wanna give away all my secrets, but do your research with the box's only really one box is up to the task..
Had a few different issues with different box's over the years with kite foiling..
Zero failure rate with the sups so far (touch wood)

Yeh I've used the chinook boxes as well and testing these 30% glass boxes with recessed 4mm lip with the carbon and e class glass matt over the lip ! They fit the nuts and are deep the same as the chinook boxes even the same glass percentage in the box in manufacturing

10" Chinook boxes seem to be hard to get in europe atm.
My boardbuilder wants to use these Shaper finboxes:
shapers.com.au/10-fin-box/

Does anybody have good/bad experience with them?

Alex

I wouldn't. Not sure on the Futures boxes as recommended above, but the Chinook Strongbox has huge over lap between the mounted parts, so it is by far the strongest when welded together.

Sanded not sure about being molded in one, I think that is impossible as it would never release from the mold.

Just check that where the seam is there is a substantial overlap from the outer and inner. The last thing you want is your foiling going swimming with the bottom half of your finboxes.

Ride safe,

JB

JB,

Futures box is one piece molded. It wasn't about a 2 years ago, but is now.

Just as the chinook is one piece molded and always has been one piece. Chinook adds glass fill when molding, so it's unbreakable compared to Futures.

yes the futures is actually called the 'one shot' as it is molded in one part refiring to the injection moulding process, its as good if not better than the chinook and cheaper and why I designed my cnc insert for them.

Ive been using the futures one shot in my conversions and have done over 10 now and have had no problem at all ! I have done research on them and they apparently have the same glass content as the Chinook strong boxes 30% resin .
They are deep and have a lip so seem strong as !

Just got a Naish Hover 7'6" 120Lt. Stoked with the shape and finish as I wanted something short but 115Lt +. At some stage I will try to talk myself into taking the foil off and try it as a surf sup.

Select to expand quote

gibo said..
Just got a Naish Hover 7'6" 120Lt. Stoked with the shape and finish as I wanted something short but 115Lt +. At some stage I will try to talk myself into taking the foil off and try it as a surf sup.

Looks sexy - Enjoy.

JB

Select to expand quote

gibo said..
Just got a Naish Hover 7'6" 120Lt. Stoked with the shape and finish as I wanted something short but 115Lt +. At some stage I will try to talk myself into taking the foil off and try it as a surf sup.

Hope you are going to bring that to Adelaide over the Christmas Break Gibo.

Select to expand quote

hagblade said..
......I have done research on them and they apparently have the same glass content as the Chinook strong boxes 30% resin . ...

Definitely not the same glass fill content.

It's plain as day when you sand both boxes.

Futures boxes sand super easy, like any plastic does with none or nearly no glass fill.

Chinook is a bitch to sand. You need the extra hard sanding pad, plus 60 grit to even have a chance of sanding it flush.

The sander exposes the truth.

id love to use futures boxes, but I'll wait until more are installed before going the easy way.