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foilgold said..

frenchfoiler said..

This Lift 120 seems very good, any more reviews, what about compare this wing to Unifoil150 or Kujra 980 ??

I have been switching back and forth between Kujira 980, 1210 and Lift 150 v2, 120HA

Kujira 980 and Lift 150 v2 are very similiar LIft turns better (use 25 tail) Kujira is easier to pump and has more glide. Both seem to have similiar speed. Comes down to preference of rider.

Lift 120 HA has crazy glide and speed. Is amazing how it can glide and can harness super small wave energy. So efficient. Easy to ride small wave energy fast. Being slightly heavier I find it harder to pump unless there is optimum conditions. (glassy, no kelp, and not much current)
Being heavier you have to have a slighly ligher tap pump style unless you are going fast. 980 Kujira when pumping out of a hole you can push down harder when going slow and it will push back and let you accerate easier. Also with Lift 150 v2 will let you push down harder on pumping out of hole. With LIft 120 I push down while going slow and I overpower it and it just sinks.

Lift 120 is more back footed compared to Kujira 980. 120 has more glide and can ride a smaller swell easier. More stable on bigger swells also. 980 Kujira has more lift/ lower stall speed. Kujira 980 is little bit easier to turn tighter but not as fast as 120ha.
Going to base place shim the 120 next. Base plate 150 v2 works well and use 1 or 2 baseplate shims with the Kujira 980. (2 base plate shims for easier pumping but not as stable turning)

Think I am just slightly above the sweet spot of weight for lift 120ha (90kilo/ 200lbs) for pumping but still works amazing and I think my pump technique could be improved while riding it. It is definetly a special wing. Both with 25 tail and 32 tail.

Thanks, great feedback.

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foilgold said..

frenchfoiler said..

This Lift 120 seems very good, any more reviews, what about compare this wing to Unifoil150 or Kujra 980 ??

I have been switching back and forth between Kujira 980, 1210 and Lift 150 v2, 120HA

Kujira 980 and Lift 150 v2 are very similiar LIft turns better (use 25 tail) Kujira is easier to pump and has more glide. Both seem to have similiar speed. Comes down to preference of rider.

Lift 120 HA has crazy glide and speed. Is amazing how it can glide and can harness super small wave energy. So efficient. Easy to ride small wave energy fast. Being slightly heavier I find it harder to pump unless there is optimum conditions. (glassy, no kelp, and not much current)
Being heavier you have to have a slighly ligher tap pump style unless you are going fast. 980 Kujira when pumping out of a hole you can push down harder when going slow and it will push back and let you accerate easier. Also with Lift 150 v2 will let you push down harder on pumping out of hole. With LIft 120 I push down while going slow and I overpower it and it just sinks.

Lift 120 is more back footed compared to Kujira 980. 120 has more glide and can ride a smaller swell easier. More stable on bigger swells also. 980 Kujira has more lift/ lower stall speed. Kujira 980 is little bit easier to turn tighter but not as fast as 120ha.
Going to base place shim the 120 next. Base plate 150 v2 works well and use 1 or 2 baseplate shims with the Kujira 980. (2 base plate shims for easier pumping but not as stable turning)

Think I am just slightly above the sweet spot of weight for lift 120ha (90kilo/ 200lbs) for pumping but still works amazing and I think my pump technique could be improved while riding it. It is definetly a special wing. Both with 25 tail and 32 tail.

What mast do you use with your Lift wing ? 28" or 32" ? I'm so used to 29.5" mast that I wouldn't go shorter and 32" might be a little bit too long, but I I think the 120 likes to be ridden high no ?

I use 32 only for winging and 28 for sup,prone

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bjhjames said..

foilgold said..

frenchfoiler said..

This Lift 120 seems very good, any more reviews, what about compare this wing to Unifoil150 or Kujra 980 ??

I have been switching back and forth between Kujira 980, 1210 and Lift 150 v2, 120HA

Kujira 980 and Lift 150 v2 are very similiar LIft turns better (use 25 tail) Kujira is easier to pump and has more glide. Both seem to have similiar speed. Comes down to preference of rider.

Lift 120 HA has crazy glide and speed. Is amazing how it can glide and can harness super small wave energy. So efficient. Easy to ride small wave energy fast. Being slightly heavier I find it harder to pump unless there is optimum conditions. (glassy, no kelp, and not much current)
Being heavier you have to have a slighly ligher tap pump style unless you are going fast. 980 Kujira when pumping out of a hole you can push down harder when going slow and it will push back and let you accerate easier. Also with Lift 150 v2 will let you push down harder on pumping out of hole. With LIft 120 I push down while going slow and I overpower it and it just sinks.

Lift 120 is more back footed compared to Kujira 980. 120 has more glide and can ride a smaller swell easier. More stable on bigger swells also. 980 Kujira has more lift/ lower stall speed. Kujira 980 is little bit easier to turn tighter but not as fast as 120ha.
Going to base place shim the 120 next. Base plate 150 v2 works well and use 1 or 2 baseplate shims with the Kujira 980. (2 base plate shims for easier pumping but not as stable turning)

Think I am just slightly above the sweet spot of weight for lift 120ha (90kilo/ 200lbs) for pumping but still works amazing and I think my pump technique could be improved while riding it. It is definetly a special wing. Both with 25 tail and 32 tail.

Tks for the great info.

I have only had the 150 and 120 for a couple of weeks so still very much learning about them.

With shimming the base plate on the V2 150, how many mm's and what does it do? I find the 150 has plenty of lift for me at 75kg so have moved it back, but it still seems a little front foot biased.

I too am amazed at how easy the HA120 is to surf and have only ridden it in small waves so far. When do you use the 150 and when do you prefer the 120? Cheers

I use the wizard hat stackable shims for the lift mast and only have the 28 inch.
Use 1 or 2 Kujira stock shims for the Takuma mast as they stack easy ontop of each other also.
Wizard hat stackable shims say the are 1 degree per shim. So if you stack all three have 3 degrees. Only use 1 on lift so far. Going to try 2 shims/ degree with the 120 soon just to see if it helps with pumping.
Heads up had to file down the wizard hat base plate shims as they were to narrow to fit the larger mast bolts lift uses.
Found for me if I over shim the baseplate too much, the less I like the turn feel as it becomes harder to do a smooth tight turn without moving weight around to adjust pitch a bunch.

Think the 120 is best for fast moving longer intervel swells.
150 I like in shorter intervel slop waves as it just turns so tight and has great low speed lift for the size.
Kujira 980 think it is once again the sweet spot in almost all conditions.
When I want the super glide/ pump in super small conditions I am on the Kujira 1210 or Lift 170

120 likes to be riden high on the mast. Good news is you can have the tips come out a crazy amount and it does not ventilate as long as you are going fast. 28 inch mast feels really good on it better than I thought it would. Good feel/ turn/ control. Think the 32 inch mast would be slightly to long but maybe good for towing. Might borrow a 32 inch to see what it feels like.
Progression project latest podcast talks about the 120 a bit and how when doing a tight connection turn when pumping back out. You lose lift on the 120, this happens to me a good amount as you can overpower it just like when pumping out of a hole. So have to always be going fast. When riding and turning tight on a wave especially when it is a longer interval wave losing lift is not a problem at all it is odd only on connection turns from pumping back out. 120 is such a unique fast feeling foil and not a good beginer foil.

Been on the 120 winging last 2 weeks so far it is my only choice from 15 kts up I definitely love it and yes it loves going fast and yes it is not a beginner Foil ,with all my other gear I log usually 15-16 kilometers in an hour session with the 120 I log 19-20 km.Still waiting for the 150 I only have and use the 25 tail was wondering if the 32 has any advantage over the 25 on the 120????what tail do you usually use???

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Dpap said..
Been on the 120 winging last 2 weeks so far it is my only choice from 15 kts up I definitely love it and yes it loves going fast and yes it is not a beginner Foil ,with all my other gear I log usually 15-16 kilometers in an hour session with the 120 I log 19-20 km.Still waiting for the 150 I only have and use the 25 tail was wondering if the 32 has any advantage over the 25 on the 120????what tail do you usually use???

Been using the 32 tail and 25 tail. Both work very well. 25 tail is more pitch sensitive and turns tighter with less stability. 32 Tail is slightly slower with better pump ever so slightly more stabile and still turns very well but less tight. 32 is less pitch sensitive. Both are great options. Talking about with 120 and 150 v2 both are great with 25 and 32 tails. Wish Lift made a smaller fuse thin profile 32 tail. Since both the 25 and 32 glide are the longer fuse.

Ok got a 32 and tryied with the 120 on a crappy 10-13 kts winging day and it made a big difference on the 25 yes it is slower but the glide improved significantly ,it is a keeper I prefer this setup over the 170 ,25 for winging and I believe it will improve my pump paired with the 170 for prone,sup in very small days 25 is still my favorite when it gets bigger!!

I should be able to try soon the Lift 120/25, I will let you know.

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foilgold said..

Dpap said..
Been on the 120 winging last 2 weeks so far it is my only choice from 15 kts up I definitely love it and yes it loves going fast and yes it is not a beginner Foil ,with all my other gear I log usually 15-16 kilometers in an hour session with the 120 I log 19-20 km.Still waiting for the 150 I only have and use the 25 tail was wondering if the 32 has any advantage over the 25 on the 120????what tail do you usually use???

Been using the 32 tail and 25 tail. Both work very well. 25 tail is more pitch sensitive and turns tighter with less stability. 32 Tail is slightly slower with better pump ever so slightly more stabile and still turns very well but less tight. 32 is less pitch sensitive. Both are great options. Talking about with 120 and 150 v2 both are great with 25 and 32 tails. Wish Lift made a smaller fuse thin profile 32 tail. Since both the 25 and 32 glide are the longer fuse.

Interesting the difference between the 32 tail and the 25 tail.

Don't you think the 38 surf v2 wouldn't be a good option ?

Haven't tried one but for my size (68 kg) 32 is plenty and will use it only in marginal conditions 25 is my go to most of my sessions ,bigger guy's for sure can benefit from bigger tails!!!

Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

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Dommo49 said..
Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dommo for the comparo, just ordered the 170HA currently riding the NL160 on the 32 mast both prone and wing, i totally love this setup. My reason for the change is i want to connect more than 2 or 3 waves and not be fully gassed, the GL180 is much cruiser but it now feels so slow compared to the NL so i cant go back. From what you describe it seems the 170 might fit the bill. Tempted to start on the 120 but maybe im not quite there yet with the required skills to keep it fast...

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Dommo49 said..
Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

Looking forward to reading how you find the 1210 compares to the 170.

I have Kujira 980/1210 & very happy with both wings but allways on the lookout for what's next.

Select to expand quote

Juzzy said..

Dommo49 said..
Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dommo for the comparo, just ordered the 170HA currently riding the NL160 on the 32 mast both prone and wing, i totally love this setup. My reason for the change is i want to connect more than 2 or 3 waves and not be fully gassed, the GL180 is much cruiser but it now feels so slow compared to the NL so i cant go back. From what you describe it seems the 170 might fit the bill. Tempted to start on the 120 but maybe im not quite there yet with the required skills to keep it fast...

Yeah, depending on how the trial with the 1210 goes I'll either end up with the Kujira 980 & 1210 or the Lift HA170 & 120. From what I've heard the 120 is faster than the 980 but the 980 is easier to pump - mainly due to the 120 having such a high stall speed. Pumping while downwinding isn't an issue, and as long as the wind and swell is good enough even the smaller of the 2 sizes are fine, but pumping to connect waves is a totally different ball game to downwinding, at least for me in the weak waves we get where I am in Oman where the 170 or 1210 or NL160 are the smallest I can get away with using if I want to pump back out

Select to expand quote

toppleover said..

Dommo49 said..
Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

Looking forward to reading how you find the 1210 compares to the 170.

I have Kujira 980/1210 & very happy with both wings but allways on the lookout for what's next.

Will do. Due to receive it on 31st May. Give me a week or 2 after that...

I have tried couple times (probably not enough) the Lift 120 with 25 and 32 glide stab.

What i can say is it is very technical. Definetly needs some time to get used to it which I'm not so this report is just a start.

Right now I love and I hate this foil at the same time....

I love the glide, the speed and how it holds the turn (expecially with the 25 stab). Once you have the speed, you don't need to pump to speed up, you just fly super fast.

But I hate how it reacts at low speed, and the pumping is super technical. Basicly you can't afford to make any mistake.

I can imagine it must be really good on nice glassy rolling waves but if it is choppy, current, white wash everywhere, windy, it is hard (at least for me).

I would also be extremely interested in a direct comparison between Kujira 1210 and Lift 170 - so much hype about each of them and hard to tell how they compare.

1210 - 935mm wide , 170- 940mm wide (1097cm2) So physical characteristics pretty close . The 1210 is way stiffer you do notice the wing flex in the 170 , both have incredible glide and pump but the 1210 has a lower stall speed. Both death sharp and both very fast. Ding wise Id pick the 1210 an amazingly good downwind wing , surf wise I'd go the 170 but the 1210 is still a very fun prone wing. The best prone wing Lift now has is the new 120 it's insane and don't know how but there are 85kg guys ripping on it , amazing carry for it's size.

Yesterday I rode the 120/32glide, waves were perfect for foiling, 3ft glassy breaking far outside going into deep water, good energy.

As expected it was way easier, the pumping was fast and smooth but you need to be super focus and always keep your speed up.
What I like is the gilde, you don't need to pump while you are on the wave, it goes so fast you can do turn without pumping in between.

I have to say I'm confused, I don't know if with more time I would get the same from this foil on marginal conditions ???

As I already said, too bad they didn't make a 140 ou 150 like this one.

I'm pretty sure that for winging it is very good foil.

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Dommo49 said..

Juzzy said..

Dommo49 said..
Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dommo for the comparo, just ordered the 170HA currently riding the NL160 on the 32 mast both prone and wing, i totally love this setup. My reason for the change is i want to connect more than 2 or 3 waves and not be fully gassed, the GL180 is much cruiser but it now feels so slow compared to the NL so i cant go back. From what you describe it seems the 170 might fit the bill. Tempted to start on the 120 but maybe im not quite there yet with the required skills to keep it fast...

Yeah, depending on how the trial with the 1210 goes I'll either end up with the Kujira 980 & 1210 or the Lift HA170 & 120. From what I've heard the 120 is faster than the 980 but the 980 is easier to pump - mainly due to the 120 having such a high stall speed. Pumping while downwinding isn't an issue, and as long as the wind and swell is good enough even the smaller of the 2 sizes are fine, but pumping to connect waves is a totally different ball game to downwinding, at least for me in the weak waves we get where I am in Oman where the 170 or 1210 or NL160 are the smallest I can get away with using if I want to pump back out

Dommo, are you finding the mast needs to be slammed forward for the 170HA? I have it all the way forward and it still feels like it wants to pitch 'nose down' riding it with the 32glide stab on my sunova 4ft9 prone. In comparison my GF setup sits in the middle of the tracks.
cheers.

Select to expand quote

Juzzy said..

Dommo49 said..

Juzzy said..

Dommo49 said..
Just been using the Lift HA 170 for a few winging sessions and thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts. Other foils I've used that I'd put in the same category as this are the GoFoil NL160 and the Axis HPS980. All 3 of these foils are awesome for downwinding and winging - they all have great speed and glide, and can be really pushed in turns, but the 2 standout points for me with the Lift 170 were:

1. the easiest of all 3 to pump. All 3 foils are excellent to pump while following and connecting bumps, but I could keep the 170 going so much further and easier, and I mean wayyyyy easier, even with no swell in an area protected by a breakwater. Not P180 easy (if you've used this foil you'll know what I mean), but not far off it!
2. the loosest in the 'roll' axis by far - if felt like the Takuma Kujira 980 in this respect, so easy to change from rail to rail. This makes for such an exciting ride - this is the only foil I've ridden that I've felt like I could whip around on swell like it was a proper wave.

The only negative thing I could find about the 170 was that it's stall speed was very sudden. That's not to say that it had a stall speed much higher than the other 2 foils, just that when it stalled it suddenly stalled, whereas the other 2 were a lot more progressive, like you can feel them coming to a stall from a mile off, which gives you time to do something about it like bring the wing back into play, whereas the 170 took me by surprise a few times. Probably something I would get used to in time though.

I wasn't expecting to like the 170 as much as I did but I have to say it was an instant hit for me. I'm trialling the Kujira 1210 next week and I've heard so many good things about it that I'd almost made up my mind already that I'd prefer it over all the other foils, but now it's got a lot to live up to!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dommo for the comparo, just ordered the 170HA currently riding the NL160 on the 32 mast both prone and wing, i totally love this setup. My reason for the change is i want to connect more than 2 or 3 waves and not be fully gassed, the GL180 is much cruiser but it now feels so slow compared to the NL so i cant go back. From what you describe it seems the 170 might fit the bill. Tempted to start on the 120 but maybe im not quite there yet with the required skills to keep it fast...

Yeah, depending on how the trial with the 1210 goes I'll either end up with the Kujira 980 & 1210 or the Lift HA170 & 120. From what I've heard the 120 is faster than the 980 but the 980 is easier to pump - mainly due to the 120 having such a high stall speed. Pumping while downwinding isn't an issue, and as long as the wind and swell is good enough even the smaller of the 2 sizes are fine, but pumping to connect waves is a totally different ball game to downwinding, at least for me in the weak waves we get where I am in Oman where the 170 or 1210 or NL160 are the smallest I can get away with using if I want to pump back out

Dommo, are you finding the mast needs to be slammed forward for the 170HA? I have it all the way forward and it still feels like it wants to pitch 'nose down' riding it with the 32glide stab on my sunova 4ft9 prone. In comparison my GF setup sits in the middle of the tracks.
cheers.

I had to put the 170 in the front half of the tracks, and I usually ride my GoFoils in the back half of the tracks, so I guess the slight difference between us is either down to the boards or riding style. But the 170 was definitely much further forward, yes. I did find the 170 preferred to be ridden with more back foot pressure than the GoFoils which to begin with made the pitch control seem a bit sketchy, but it after a bit of riding time I ended up really liking the feel of the 170. I certainly didn't get any pitch nose down feel - maybe stand a tad further back either with your back foot or both?

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Piros said..
1210 - 935mm wide , 170- 940mm wide (1097cm2) So physical characteristics pretty close . The 1210 is way stiffer you do notice the wing flex in the 170 , both have incredible glide and pump but the 1210 has a lower stall speed. Both death sharp and both very fast. Ding wise Id pick the 1210 an amazingly good downwind wing , surf wise I'd go the 170 but the 1210 is still a very fun prone wing. The best prone wing Lift now has is the new 120 it's insane and don't know how but there are 85kg guys ripping on it , amazing carry for it's size.

Thanks Piros - good to know. I'm interested to hear if the 85kg guys you know who are ripping on the Lift HA 120 are ripping only while on waves, or if they are also able to pump back out to connect multiple waves. I know a few people who say its the most amazing foil to surf, wing and tow-in, but they say if you're much over 70kg then you can pretty much forget about pumping it back out. I know Jackfromtown makes it look easy, but as good as he is that kid is probably less than half the body weight of most adults - and that's a huge advantage. By all accounts the stall speed of the 120 is super high, so keeping its speed above that point is going to be difficult for all but the lightest and best? Good conditions would also be a help I imagine. Happy to be proven wrong if you think differently.

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Dommo49 said..

Piros said..
1210 - 935mm wide , 170- 940mm wide (1097cm2) So physical characteristics pretty close . The 1210 is way stiffer you do notice the wing flex in the 170 , both have incredible glide and pump but the 1210 has a lower stall speed. Both death sharp and both very fast. Ding wise Id pick the 1210 an amazingly good downwind wing , surf wise I'd go the 170 but the 1210 is still a very fun prone wing. The best prone wing Lift now has is the new 120 it's insane and don't know how but there are 85kg guys ripping on it , amazing carry for it's size.

Thanks Piros - good to know. I'm interested to hear if the 85kg guys you know who are ripping on the Lift HA 120 are ripping only while on waves, or if they are also able to pump back out to connect multiple waves. I know a few people who say its the most amazing foil to surf, wing and tow-in, but they say if you're much over 70kg then you can pretty much forget about pumping it back out. I know Jackfromtown makes it look easy, but as good as he is that kid is probably less than half the body weight of most adults - and that's a huge advantage. By all accounts the stall speed of the 120 is super high, so keeping its speed above that point is going to be difficult for all but the lightest and best? Good conditions would also be a help I imagine. Happy to be proven wrong if you think differently.

I am 75 kg, 60y +. Been on the HA120 for a month now, all sorts of conditions.
Average at best pump technique and average fitness.
HA 120 pump is pretty easy, multiple waves consistently for the first time. Previous foil was Armstrong 1250 and I find the HA120 quicker and easier to pump. I don't know what the story is either with "low stall speed" comments, its happy in 1' weak waves and speeds of mid teens. Maybe if you were 85 + in tiny waves, but I have not found it a problem and once up you can pump back up to speed.

Pump is much better then the Lift v2 150, turns well, but they are carve turns rather then flick which you can do on the V2 150.

Downsides ... Its really doesn't like turbulence, gets bumpy and nervous running through gutters after a set has washed through.

So clean water or take the first wave of a set .... so much fun ... I am loving it

Have a go on one .. you will see.

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bjhjames said..

Dommo49 said..

Piros said..
1210 - 935mm wide , 170- 940mm wide (1097cm2) So physical characteristics pretty close . The 1210 is way stiffer you do notice the wing flex in the 170 , both have incredible glide and pump but the 1210 has a lower stall speed. Both death sharp and both very fast. Ding wise Id pick the 1210 an amazingly good downwind wing , surf wise I'd go the 170 but the 1210 is still a very fun prone wing. The best prone wing Lift now has is the new 120 it's insane and don't know how but there are 85kg guys ripping on it , amazing carry for it's size.

Thanks Piros - good to know. I'm interested to hear if the 85kg guys you know who are ripping on the Lift HA 120 are ripping only while on waves, or if they are also able to pump back out to connect multiple waves. I know a few people who say its the most amazing foil to surf, wing and tow-in, but they say if you're much over 70kg then you can pretty much forget about pumping it back out. I know Jackfromtown makes it look easy, but as good as he is that kid is probably less than half the body weight of most adults - and that's a huge advantage. By all accounts the stall speed of the 120 is super high, so keeping its speed above that point is going to be difficult for all but the lightest and best? Good conditions would also be a help I imagine. Happy to be proven wrong if you think differently.

I am 75 kg, 60y +. Been on the HA120 for a month now, all sorts of conditions.
Average at best pump technique and average fitness.
HA 120 pump is pretty easy, multiple waves consistently for the first time. Previous foil was Armstrong 1250 and I find the HA120 quicker and easier to pump. I don't know what the story is either with "low stall speed" comments, its happy in 1' weak waves and speeds of mid teens. Maybe if you were 85 + in tiny waves, but I have not found it a problem and once up you can pump back up to speed.

Pump is much better then the Lift v2 150, turns well, but they are carve turns rather then flick which you can do on the V2 150.

Downsides ... Its really doesn't like turbulence, gets bumpy and nervous running through gutters after a set has washed through.

So clean water or take the first wave of a set .... so much fun ... I am loving it

Have a go on one .. you will see.

I'm 75kg, I can connect multiple waves with Sig alabatross 165 even with the Unifoil 150 but I can't do the same with the Lift 120, so maybe it is all about a spending some time on it, trying different shim, mast positionning etc... I don't know but I like to jump on a foil and feel confortable right away. But l ride mostly tricky conditions (current, wind, chops etc...) so maybe that is why I need a foil that handle the low speed you can get on thos conditions.

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bjhjames said..

Downsides ... Its really doesn't like turbulence, gets bumpy and nervous running through gutters after a set has washed through.

Interesting! The kujira series is incredible in turbulent conditions - loves the whitewater.

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frenchfoiler said..

bjhjames said..

Dommo49 said..

Piros said..
1210 - 935mm wide , 170- 940mm wide (1097cm2) So physical characteristics pretty close . The 1210 is way stiffer you do notice the wing flex in the 170 , both have incredible glide and pump but the 1210 has a lower stall speed. Both death sharp and both very fast. Ding wise Id pick the 1210 an amazingly good downwind wing , surf wise I'd go the 170 but the 1210 is still a very fun prone wing. The best prone wing Lift now has is the new 120 it's insane and don't know how but there are 85kg guys ripping on it , amazing carry for it's size.

Thanks Piros - good to know. I'm interested to hear if the 85kg guys you know who are ripping on the Lift HA 120 are ripping only while on waves, or if they are also able to pump back out to connect multiple waves. I know a few people who say its the most amazing foil to surf, wing and tow-in, but they say if you're much over 70kg then you can pretty much forget about pumping it back out. I know Jackfromtown makes it look easy, but as good as he is that kid is probably less than half the body weight of most adults - and that's a huge advantage. By all accounts the stall speed of the 120 is super high, so keeping its speed above that point is going to be difficult for all but the lightest and best? Good conditions would also be a help I imagine. Happy to be proven wrong if you think differently.

I am 75 kg, 60y +. Been on the HA120 for a month now, all sorts of conditions.
Average at best pump technique and average fitness.
HA 120 pump is pretty easy, multiple waves consistently for the first time. Previous foil was Armstrong 1250 and I find the HA120 quicker and easier to pump. I don't know what the story is either with "low stall speed" comments, its happy in 1' weak waves and speeds of mid teens. Maybe if you were 85 + in tiny waves, but I have not found it a problem and once up you can pump back up to speed.

Pump is much better then the Lift v2 150, turns well, but they are carve turns rather then flick which you can do on the V2 150.

Downsides ... Its really doesn't like turbulence, gets bumpy and nervous running through gutters after a set has washed through.

So clean water or take the first wave of a set .... so much fun ... I am loving it

Have a go on one .. you will see.

I'm 75kg, I can connect multiple waves with Sig alabatross 165 even with the Unifoil 150 but I can't do the same with the Lift 120, so maybe it is all about a spending some time on it, trying different shim, mast positionning etc... I don't know but I like to jump on a foil and feel confortable right away. But l ride mostly tricky conditions (current, wind, chops etc...) so maybe that is why I need a foil that handle the low speed you can get on thos conditions.

Select to expand quote

frenchfoiler said..

bjhjames said..

Dommo49 said..

Piros said..
1210 - 935mm wide , 170- 940mm wide (1097cm2) So physical characteristics pretty close . The 1210 is way stiffer you do notice the wing flex in the 170 , both have incredible glide and pump but the 1210 has a lower stall speed. Both death sharp and both very fast. Ding wise Id pick the 1210 an amazingly good downwind wing , surf wise I'd go the 170 but the 1210 is still a very fun prone wing. The best prone wing Lift now has is the new 120 it's insane and don't know how but there are 85kg guys ripping on it , amazing carry for it's size.

Thanks Piros - good to know. I'm interested to hear if the 85kg guys you know who are ripping on the Lift HA 120 are ripping only while on waves, or if they are also able to pump back out to connect multiple waves. I know a few people who say its the most amazing foil to surf, wing and tow-in, but they say if you're much over 70kg then you can pretty much forget about pumping it back out. I know Jackfromtown makes it look easy, but as good as he is that kid is probably less than half the body weight of most adults - and that's a huge advantage. By all accounts the stall speed of the 120 is super high, so keeping its speed above that point is going to be difficult for all but the lightest and best? Good conditions would also be a help I imagine. Happy to be proven wrong if you think differently.

I am 75 kg, 60y +. Been on the HA120 for a month now, all sorts of conditions.
Average at best pump technique and average fitness.
HA 120 pump is pretty easy, multiple waves consistently for the first time. Previous foil was Armstrong 1250 and I find the HA120 quicker and easier to pump. I don't know what the story is either with "low stall speed" comments, its happy in 1' weak waves and speeds of mid teens. Maybe if you were 85 + in tiny waves, but I have not found it a problem and once up you can pump back up to speed.

Pump is much better then the Lift v2 150, turns well, but they are carve turns rather then flick which you can do on the V2 150.

Downsides ... Its really doesn't like turbulence, gets bumpy and nervous running through gutters after a set has washed through.

So clean water or take the first wave of a set .... so much fun ... I am loving it

Have a go on one .. you will see.

I'm 75kg, I can connect multiple waves with Sig alabatross 165 even with the Unifoil 150 but I can't do the same with the Lift 120, so maybe it is all about a spending some time on it, trying different shim, mast positionning etc... I don't know but I like to jump on a foil and feel confortable right away. But l ride mostly tricky conditions (current, wind, chops etc...) so maybe that is why I need a foil that handle the low speed you can get on thos conditions.

Being a 90kg 200lb foil surfer, when on the ha120 think that you need to have a really light/ gentle tap style pump when going slow (speed of smaller intervel swell when catching waves) Find that I kept over powering the ha120 when I tried to pump it in a style like I normally do out the hole on a small wave. When I did a gentle finese tap tap tap and then got going fast enough, I could then push down pretty hard like normal and it is easier to maintain pump/ speed. Like said before, super technique involved foil. I can pump the Lift 150v2 better / more consistant in between waves, although with more cardio involvement compared to the 120 ha. I enjoy the Lift 150 v2 more than the 120 ha for my weight in more variety of condidtions in prone foiling.

Really wish Lift had a Ha 150 and a Surf 170v2. Would be the perfect size foils for the slightly heavier intermediate and above foilers!

Bring on the 170 Uni Viper release?!

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Really wish Lift had a Ha 150 and a Surf 170v2. Would be the perfect size foils for the slightly heavier intermediate and above foilers!

100% !!!

I was asked to post my thoughts about how the Kujira 1210 compares to the Lift HA 170

Speed - fairly similar but the 170 feels like it has a slightly higher top speed.
Glide - both good but the 1210 feels more efficient and has better low end. The 1210 somehow smooths out chop and messy water conditions much better than the 170.
Lift - the 1210 has a smoother more progressive lift and somehow feels like it has better lift while flying - but the lift doesn't feel excessive - like it's lift to glide ratio (if there is such a thing) makes it super efficient.
Pumping - Both great to pump when downwinding, but I found the 1210 easier to pump by far when connecting waves and for flat water pumping.
Carving - both great but they have a slightly different feel - the 170 needs more back foot pressure. I've heard people saying the 1210 needs excessive front foot pressure but I found it to be very evenly balanced between front and back feet.
Responsiveness / changing direction / rail to rail - the 170 is super loose in its roll axis, it allows you to move from rail to rail super quick. Some people don't like this as it can feel too loose, but if you like it it's great. The 1210 isn't as loose as the 170 in its roll but it can change direction or initiate turns plenty fast, in fact I would say this is one of it's strengths - whether you want to do gentle arcs or tight cutbacks it feels like it can do whatever you want it to do, and lets you be super smooth with it. It's so well balanced!
Stall speed - the 1210 has a lower stall speed and is more progressive - when the 170 stalls it tends to happen suddenly.
Pitch control - this is another area where the 1210 excels. It almost feels like pitch is on auto pilot - I know some people say this is due to the longer fuselage but it somehow does it with no loss in pump or turning performance which you would expect from a longer fuse.

Overall - I thought the Lift HA 170 was amazing, but I think the Kujjira 1210 is even better - the best all round foil I've ever ridden. Most times if you get a great all-rounder its a case of it being a jack of all trades but a master of none. I'd say the 1210 is pretty close to being the master of all.

**TAILS**
I'm using a 14.5" KDmaui tail with the 1210
I used the 25 and 32 glide tails with the 170

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Dommo49 said..
I was asked to post my thoughts about how the Kujira 1210 compares to the Lift HA 170

Speed - fairly similar but the 170 feels like it has a slightly higher top speed.
Glide - both good but the 1210 feels more efficient and has better low end. The 1210 somehow smooths out chop and messy water conditions much better than the 170.
Lift - the 1210 has a smoother more progressive lift and somehow feels like it has better lift while flying - but the lift doesn't feel excessive - like it's lift to glide ratio (if there is such a thing) makes it super efficient.
Pumping - Both great to pump when downwinding, but I found the 1210 easier to pump by far when connecting waves and for flat water pumping.
Carving - both great but they have a slightly different feel - the 170 needs more back foot pressure. I've heard people saying the 1210 needs excessive front foot pressure but I found it to be very evenly balanced between front and back feet.
Responsiveness / changing direction / rail to rail - the 170 is super loose in its roll axis, it allows you to move from rail to rail super quick. Some people don't like this as it can feel too loose, but if you like it it's great. The 1210 isn't as loose as the 170 in its roll but it can change direction or initiate turns plenty fast, in fact I would say this is one of it's strengths - whether you want to do gentle arcs or tight cutbacks it feels like it can do whatever you want it to do, and lets you be super smooth with it. It's so well balanced!
Stall speed - the 1210 has a lower stall speed and is more progressive - when the 170 stalls it tends to happen suddenly.
Pitch control - this is another area where the 1210 excels. It almost feels like pitch is on auto pilot - I know some people say this is due to the longer fuselage but it somehow does it with no loss in pump or turning performance which you would expect from a longer fuse.

Overall - I thought the Lift HA 170 was amazing, but I think the Kujjira 1210 is even better - the best all round foil I've ever ridden. Most times if you get a great all-rounder its a case of it being a jack of all trades but a master of none. I'd say the 1210 is pretty close to being the master of all.

**TAILS**
I'm using a 14.5" KDmaui tail with the 1210
I used the 25 and 32 glide tails with the 170

Just my guess but i suspect the HA200 might be closer to the 1210 in size. What does the 170 and 1210 look like side by side?

yes, I think you're right Juzzy - HA200 would be more on par with the Kujira 1210.
HA170 .....1096 sq cm
HA200 .....1290 sq cm

Dommo - Thank you so much for all the detail. Reaffirms what I've found - the 1210 is pretty much my perfect everyday foil. I mentioned the pitch stability in the kujira thread - it definitely isn't just the length of the fuse - has to do with the lift profile versus angle of attack of the front wing. I think it is all related also to the ability of the kujira to run high lift / low speed and stall out in a very smooth way.