Hey i know there is a post on this already but as it is super long an i have no time to read it all. i need the experts out there to tell me what is the best hydrofoil in carbon, just the foil i dont need a board i already have a cabrinha double agent and feel its time to upgrade i wont be racing it but will use it in waves and just generally freeride it flat water and open ocean

if its waves and freeride then get yourself a decent ally foil like a zeeko , although having said that if you forked out the money for a cabrinha foil then you have money to burn

As dusta said the Zeeko alloy is a significant upgrade for you. And asking that question about carbon foils is like posting asking what is the best kite brand.
Research foil brands that offer a good range of wing options and even mast lengths.
And mounting choices.
Kiteforum has a Hydrofoil section with lots of good feedback.

Slingshot Hover Glide is mid aspect ratio, very well built, has different mast length options at great prices. Hoverglide NF2 foil with full length mast is $1209 and the 3 shorter masts are $259
Shinn foil is good too (same as Zeeko).

Seeing as the poster is looking to upgrade and looking at Carbon foils.
Therefore perhaps going lighter than his DA.
And already foiling.
Suggesting a heavier option is going the other way.
With stiff carbon foils weighing in at 2.9kg-3.3kg and costing $2850ish. Then the Zeeko alloy weighing 3.85kg @ $1450 then you are paying about $280 per 100g of weight saving.
So using the Zeeko alloy as a benchmark. A foil that weighs more should be $280 cheaper per extra 100g.

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RAL INN said..
Seeing as the poster is looking to upgrade and looking at Carbon foils.
Therefore perhaps going lighter than his DA.
And already foiling.
Suggesting a heavier option is going the other way.
With stiff carbon foils weighing in at 2.9kg-3.3kg and costing $2850ish. Then the Zeeko alloy weighing 3.85kg @ $1450 then you are paying about $280 per 100g of weight saving.
So using the Zeeko alloy as a benchmark. A foil that weighs more should be $280 cheaper per extra 100g.

If this is how you try to convince customers, well.... good luck with that.....

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RAL INN said..
Seeing as the poster is looking to upgrade and looking at Carbon foils.
Therefore perhaps going lighter than his DA.
And already foiling.
Suggesting a heavier option is going the other way.
With stiff carbon foils weighing in at 2.9kg-3.3kg and costing $2850ish. Then the Zeeko alloy weighing 3.85kg @ $1450 then you are paying about $280 per 100g of weight saving.
So using the Zeeko alloy as a benchmark. A foil that weighs more should be $280 cheaper per extra 100g.

This weight thing reminds me of the old joke about buying beers by the pound. ^^^

Yeah, the pub was located right next door to the stray dog facility.

Maybe I should stay away from those Jack Daniels celebration days.

If you lived in a place that has drift wood and logs floating out of rivers nearby and boulders just subsurface even hundreds of meters out. So the likely change of striking am immovable object is high. What would be the recommendation?

Cheep alloy foil with easily replacable wings etc. Or strong carbon foil that might be able to take the knocks more?

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Plummet said...
If you lived in a place that has drift wood and logs floating out of rivers nearby and boulders just subsurface even hundreds of meters out. So the likely change of striking am immovable object is high. What would be the recommendation?

Cheep alloy foil with easily replacable wings etc. Or strong carbon foil that might be able to take the knocks more?

At a guess the weak point on a good Alloy foil is the mount to the board, or to be more specific the board.
For a solid carbon foil it would be the same.
I've hit sandbars which stopped the rig but with only using a very loose front strap, I kept going which meant no damage each time.
Not saying your conditions are good as described, but maybe with experience doable.

Hi Steve,is that USdollars or AU dollars.?Where to get in Aus?Thanks

You need to be careful what foil you buy if you're going to try to fit it to your Double Agent. I think that board has holes to mount the foil, not an adjustable track.

Not all plate mounts are the same. The width is a standard 90mm but length can vary from 140 to 190mm.

All the carbon foils with plate mounts I have seen have countersunk holes that screw in from the foil side.

You can make adapter plates, or drill more holes in the carbon, or drill more holes in your board. It all sounds a bit of a drama when you're spending almost $3000 on a carbon foil.

Kitepower will have some in the next 2-4 weeks, have not had shipping confirmation yet. The price is in $AUD, the wings are made of machined G10, the fuselage is alloy and the masts are alloy. They are strong and well built. Weight in racing is important, for everyone else its not, but strength and durability is important, even to racers, I've seen riders knocked out of comps with damaged wings and fuselage from contact with the bottom or something in the water.

The other very important feature of the Slingshot system is the plate mount with twin slot mounts which allow forward and aft movement of the foil relative to the board. While learning with a short mast, you move the plate toward the back of the board and as you gain skill and confidence you move the base forward. Boards/foils that don't have this are just plain harder to learn the basics, Slingshot have designed this ease of learning and early success feature into their product from the beginning.

www.slingshotsports.com/slingshot-foil

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Percvil said..

Hey i know there is a post on this already but as it is super long an i have no time to read it all. i need the experts out there to tell me what is the best hydrofoil in carbon, just the foil i dont need a board i already have a cabrinha double agent and feel its time to upgrade i wont be racing it but will use it in waves and just generally freeride it flat water and open ocean

Jeez, does nobody read any more?

You can buy full carbon foils in Australia from:

KFA www.kitefoil.com.au/
Alecto www.alectokitefoiling.com.au/

Ral Inn sells Zeeko www.facebook.com/3Inlets-Windsports-1407344329565514/

This crew in New Zealand have some nice looking gear at a nice price: www.jshapes.com/

I also sell LP foils and F-one and Naish.
But the only Australian made foil is the Alecto who made the KFA Mk3 now their freeride foil and now have their new Mk4 race foil.

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TerryMcTool said..
They are strong and well built. Weight in racing is important, for everyone else its not,

Not sure where you are getting that idea from

Race foils are actually not the lightest ones.... A race foil such as Taaroa sword is about 3kg while a Freeride carbon foil from Ketos is just 2.4kg.

I gather a racer will be after a stiffer mast which in most cases will be achieved through adding more carbon material to the structure hence an additional weight.

I believe the Slingshot is around 5.5kg which is totally absurd. Add a board to that and you end up carrying a 10kg rig.... Anyone thinking of traveling or having to walk long distance with it will feel their pain and probably get rid of it asap.

Just to give an idea, my foil + board together weight just 4.9kg. I am not a racer and there is no way I would go for a foil over 4kg.

Mind that the 2 best alloy foils out there which are Zeeko and Alpine weight respectively 3.8 and 2.9 kg. Prices are similar and performance are heaps better as they are both able to reach 30kn for those willing to go fast.

I tried the Slingshot that cannot even reach a mere 20kn (same as Cabrihna and LF). Unless you have a strong affiliation to any of these brands, to me it sounds like a non sense to even consider buying them.

Just saw pictures of new Naish Foil.
Very disappointed.

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RAL INN said..
Just saw pictures of new Naish Foil.
Very disappointed.

It's the LF Fun Foil with Naish stickers :o

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Livit said..

TerryMcTool said..
They are strong and well built. Weight in racing is important, for everyone else its not,

Not sure where you are getting that idea from

Race foils are actually not the lightest ones.... A race foil such as Taaroa sword is about 3kg while a Freeride carbon foil from Ketos is just 2.4kg.

I gather a racer will be after a stiffer mast which in most cases will be achieved through adding more carbon material to the structure hence an additional weight.

I believe the Slingshot is around 5.5kg which is totally absurd. Add a board to that and you end up carrying a 10kg rig.... Anyone thinking of traveling or having to walk long distance with it will feel their pain and probably get rid of it asap.

Just to give an idea, my foil + board together weight just 4.9kg. I am not a racer and there is no way I would go for a foil over 4kg.

Mind that the 2 best alloy foils out there which are Zeeko and Alpine weight respectively 3.8 and 2.9 kg. Prices are similar and performance are heaps better as they are both able to reach 30kn for those willing to go fast.

I tried the Slingshot that cannot even reach a mere 20kn (same as Cabrihna and LF). Unless you have a strong affiliation to any of these brands, to me it sounds like a non sense to even consider buying them.

So, your foil weight 400 grams?

SS foil (5.5kg) plus board = 10kg so the board must be 4.5kg. . . .

Still waiting for a good answer as to why I need to be able to do 30 knots on a foil. . . .

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Kamikuza said..
So, your foil weight 400 grams?

SS foil (5.5kg) plus board = 10kg so the board must be 4.5kg. . . .

Still waiting for a good answer as to why I need to be able to do 30 knots on a foil. . . .

Foil is 2.8kg and board 2.1kg...

Most of the factory boards come out around 4kg, I was not talking about the one I use.

Horue is now working on a rig below 3kg. Foil @ 1.3kg and board around 1.5kg.

If you are fine going at just 15kn, I'd say each to their own but it is rather slow. The point was more to say that if for the same budget of LF, Cab, Slingshot or Naish you can get a more refined foil that is also a better all rounder, then why would you go past that?

I'll take your word for the board weights

Horue has also had problems with stuff breaking, I've heard. There's a price for losing weight.

Why wouldn't anyone be fine going 15 knots if you're not in a race?

Weight and speed, for the average free rider--what difference does it make while you're on the water? If your limp wrist can't carry 10kg under an arm on a bit of a walk, maybe you should rethink the whole thing and spend some time in the gym.

Define "refined". . .

thanks for your in put there is plenty to take in Ive had a look a all major brands and the ones you have recommended

the group seems to like this liftfoils.com/
i believe they make foils for slingshot and the have a wide range of masts and wings and are only continuing to grow

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Plummet said...
If you lived in a place that has drift wood and logs floating out of rivers nearby and boulders just subsurface even hundreds of meters out. So the likely change of striking am immovable object is high. What would be the recommendation?

Cheep alloy foil with easily replacable wings etc. Or strong carbon foil that might be able to take the knocks more?

Didn't hit anything foiling at East end or Oakura when I came down after New Years.. ( could see lots of rocks subsurface ).
Was not game enough for Tai rd and didn't have small enough kite for the 40knot+ conditions.
i did rip finbox out of surfboard tho.

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polykarb said..

Plummet said...
If you lived in a place that has drift wood and logs floating out of rivers nearby and boulders just subsurface even hundreds of meters out. So the likely change of striking am immovable object is high. What would be the recommendation?

Cheep alloy foil with easily replacable wings etc. Or strong carbon foil that might be able to take the knocks more?

Didn't hit anything foiling at East end or Oakura when I came down after New Years.. ( could see lots of rocks subsurface ).
Was not game enough for Tai rd and didn't have small enough kite for the 40knot+ conditions.
i did rip finbox out of surfboard tho.

Yeah. I think you would be unlucky to smash into a subsurface boulder while visiting and riding a few sessions. But if you live there and may do 20-40 sessions per year the likely hood is more when you hit something not if you hit it.

Cheap, replaceable wings? Those cheap wings are $500 each. You could make your own out of sheet aluminium or plastic or something but that would be a pain. The Liquid Force wings are foam core plastic of some sort. They cope fine with the odd bump. You just sand them smooth. After a big whack they're known for the two layers to split. Easily glued with epoxy but still a pain.

30 knots on a foil? The more I foil the faster I get. I am pushing 15 knots on a fast downwind run. That can be scary fast on a Liquid Force (because the front wing has a tendency to buck out of the water). Fast foiling crashes hurt, lots! Much more than stuffing a powered jump. About the same as blowing a powered backroll kite loop with a C kite.

I am told high aspect foils can handle much more speed with more stability. It looks amazing when the fast guys go slicing past at double your board speed. I am also told that when going downwind the apparent wind builds so that you can stand in a fully locked, powered stance. On a slow foil you're trying to depower the kite and balance at speed with minimal tension on the lines.

Riding a fast surfboard with a kite the cruising speed is about 15 knots with blasts to 20 knots. It would rock to be able to go 25% faster with less effort and about 20% better upwind angle.

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TerryMcTool said..
Slingshot Hover Glide is mid aspect ratio, very well built, has different mast length options at great prices. Hoverglide NF2 foil with full length mast is $1209 and the 3 shorter masts are $259
Shinn foil is good too (same as Zeeko).

Then a Hoverglide NF2 foil and a Liquid Force Rocket fish will come in just under $2k (pretty decent price).

The SS Hoverglide NF2 with their lower priced board will be $2208, but you could easily convert or make a board if budget is tight. The 3 size mast pack is extra, but worth it if you are learning, maybe even share with a mate 1 pack?
The weight is a non issue for freeriders, the board and foil combo weighs much less than 10kg, unless my weight guestimator is way off? I'm told the foil is capable of 20-25 knots. I do not have any affiliation to that brand other than a shop I own (but don't work in), sells the brand.

I'm also not convinced that weight is so critical in racing anyway, as many have observed and pointed out with low weight comes loss of durability, and the gain has not been proven. Some people do seem to be overly obsessed with weight?

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Gorgo said...
Cheap, replaceable wings? Those cheap wings are $500 each. You could make your own out of sheet aluminium or plastic or something but that would be a pain. The Liquid Force wings are foam core plastic of some sort. They cope fine with the odd bump. You just sand them smooth. After a big whack they're known for the two layers to split. Easily glued with epoxy but still a pain.

30 knots on a foil? The more I foil the faster I get. I am pushing 15 knots on a fast downwind run. That can be scary fast on a Liquid Force (because the front wing has a tendency to buck out of the water). Fast foiling crashes hurt, lots! Much more than stuffing a powered jump. About the same as blowing a powered backroll kite loop with a C kite.

I am told high aspect foils can handle much more speed with more stability. It looks amazing when the fast guys go slicing past at double your board speed. I am also told that when going downwind the apparent wind builds so that you can stand in a fully locked, powered stance. On a slow foil you're trying to depower the kite and balance at speed with minimal tension on the lines.

Riding a fast surfboard with a kite the cruising speed is about 15 knots with blasts to 20 knots. It would rock to be able to go 25% faster with less effort and about 20% better upwind angle.

You can get wing SETS for the Fun Foil for $500: OEM, TKF and some guy on Hawaii. I'll have to post up pics of my wing cos it's had a hard life but still rocking. I've heard of one case of them splitting and IIRC that was from hitting a solid object.

Everyone says the Fun Foil had a tendency to sink with more speed...have you done some fiddling?

I suspect the wider wings of the higher AR wings has something to do with the stability, and probably a wider range of speed at which it'll just park instead of being constant adjustment. We'll see.

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TerryMcTool said..

The weight is a non issue for freeriders, the board and foil combo weighs much less than 10kg, unless my weight guestimator is way off? I'm told the foil is capable of 20-25 knots. I do not have any affiliation to that brand other than a shop I own (but don't work in), sells the brand.

I'm also not convinced that weight is so critical in racing anyway, as many have observed and pointed out with low weight comes loss of durability, and the gain has not been proven. Some people do seem to be overly obsessed with weight?

Can you tell us about your experience to state that weight is a non issue for freeriders? Not only it affects the ride, carrying it on long distances or traveling with it by plane (2 or 3 extra kg makes a big difference when transporting gear) is a pain. Weight is an important factor that you will soon realise once you've compared with other crafts.


As for the weight of the NF2 + board, we have weighted it at exactly 9.2kg bolted on the Dwarf Craft.

All tests from the NF2 comes to the same conclusion: way too heavy (when compared to a competitor equivalent).

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Livit said...

TerryMcTool said..

The weight is a non issue for freeriders, the board and foil combo weighs much less than 10kg, unless my weight guestimator is way off? I'm told the foil is capable of 20-25 knots. I do not have any affiliation to that brand other than a shop I own (but don't work in), sells the brand.

I'm also not convinced that weight is so critical in racing anyway, as many have observed and pointed out with low weight comes loss of durability, and the gain has not been proven. Some people do seem to be overly obsessed with weight?

Can you tell us about your experience to state that weight is a non issue for freeriders? Not only it affects the ride, carrying it on long distances or traveling with it by plane (2 or 3 extra kg makes a big difference when transporting gear) is a pain. Weight is an important factor that you will soon realise once you've compared with other crafts.


As for the weight of the NF2 + board, we have weighted it at exactly 9.2kg bolted on the Dwarf Craft.

All tests from the NF2 comes to the same conclusion: way too heavy (when compared to a competitor equivalent).

Travel, agreed.
Ride, I'm not convinced yet.
Carrying, seriously HTFU.

Most of the excess weight of the NF2 is in the mast, which seemed to be full of rubber....