Don't worry Lofty, North is definitely still here and will always be a part of kiteboarding in Australia.

The issue at hand has been discussed with the customer, so there's no real need to go any further on a public forum.

The staff member involved is also undertaking customer service training, in line with our international brand standards, so the community out there can rest assure, there won't be anymore unsavory emails from us.
Cheers

Everyones probly busy loading Muscats

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NKBAUS said..
Don't worry Lofty, North is definitely still here and will always be a part of kiteboarding in Australia.

The issue at hand has been discussed with the customer, so there's no real need to go any further on a public forum.

The staff member involved is also undertaking customer service training, in line with our international brand standards, so the community out there can rest assure, there won't be anymore unsavory emails from us.
Cheers

Good to hear, hope you guys look after him.

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PRAWNDOG said..

What I would like to see tho is if a company is charging premium prices for a product they back it up with premium support and warranty services.

Thats the exact reason I now give North products zero percent of my business but....everyone is pointing the stink finger at North for
not supplying sufficient warranty. It is always the retailer who is responsible for honoring warranties, not the manufacturer.

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NKBAUS said..

The issue at hand has been discussed with the customer, so there's no real need to go any further on a public forum.

I reckon there is a real need to inform actual and potential customers that even though they spend top $$$$ in North products, they shouldn't expect to get a great product nor customer service. Not that I think all North products are below standards however the brand values seem to be quite close to the bottom.

I mean, we all know that something can go wrong in a production line. Selling a lemon and not admitting it is one despite having access to a professional opinion is very poor form IMO.

Getting customer satisfaction is always a tough challenge in any industry. Marketing 101 : a happy customer will tell one about his experience, an unhappy one will tell 10 (a lot more than that in my case).

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snalberski said..

Thats the exact reason I now give North products zero percent of my business but....everyone is pointing the stink finger at North for
not supplying sufficient warranty. It is always the retailer who is responsible for honoring warranties, not the manufacturer.

I know of another former North dealer who actually stopped distributing their products for lack of support and troubles with honoring warranties so I wouldn't point the finger at them. Cabrinha on the other hand seem to give a lot of trust in their reseller network and allow them to honor warranties base on their judgment. This is how it should be.

My case is a bit different as the product although having had very little use is no longer cover by the warranty. I was pointing out the fact that their quality Control failed by letting this board out of the factory and was asking for North to cover the cost of the repairs. I thought it was a fair request (such an expensive product should be fit for purpose) and would have been happy with that.

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snalberski said..

PRAWNDOG said..

What I would like to see tho is if a company is charging premium prices for a product they back it up with premium support and warranty services.

Thats the exact reason I now give North products zero percent of my business but....everyone is pointing the stink finger at North for
not supplying sufficient warranty. It is always the retailer who is responsible for honoring warranties, not the manufacturer.

The retailer sends pics/information to Sydney and it's the main 'north' guy/distributor who makes the decision actually to apply for a warranty case. He/She (well its a he at the moment) then applies to north itself for a warranty. That's how the communication line works.

So you are essentially wrong. The retailer is part of a much bigger process.

Just as wrong as making a final judgement on north's warranty process given your one personal experience. It's a very large international operation and you are two guys just pissing in the wind (mostly).

I will say it again, for every personal experience (and I agree it's not a great one - given the information at hand) there are many more good ones.

Bad news travels/sells coverage though right.

again..in name of balance.

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eppo said..


Just as wrong as making a final judgement on north's warranty process given your one personal experience. It's a very large international operation and you are two guys just pissing in the wind (mostly).

I will say it again, for every personal experience (and I agree it's not a great one - given the information at hand) there are many more good ones.

Bad news travels/sells coverage though right.

again..in name of balance.

What's wrong with a judgement based on personal experience? You might enjoy getting screwed and ask for more, other people don't. Being a large international operation is no excuse for not taking responsibility. I had a bad experience and I shared it, end of the story.

I am not saying don't buy North but I personally won't do it again (based on the recent dealing with their people).

I shared the pics and I think most people would agree that this particular board was a lemon!

The process is to complicated with to many hands to go through and in my opinion the problem and what causes most people to get the ****s on. What do I mean, let me explain, although the good people at north may or may not have good intentions with your warranty claim by the time it gets to the people it needs to that make the final call it's to slow. Why you may ask ? Because by the time you finally get an answer a qauter of the season is gone (my expirience) and you know by the time it does get repaired and back to you, if it is actually approved the season is nearly gone. So this product that you saved up for and been frothing to use is essentially taken off you for the season and you feel like you been bent over a barrel. Put someone in charge that the shops go directly to and have an answer within a 24hr period, you would have a lot more happy customers, my biggest peeve was the time the product was of the water !!

Yeh you guys have it sussed. Successful global company whose been around nearly since day dot and you guys think they have all got it wrong.


....agreed Livit, that board did look like a lemon.

....Yeh the time interval can be a pain, normally a good retailer will lend you something to use in the meantime, that's been my experience. Again warranty process is designed around those few that will abuse the system...it's the reality.

Normally the retailer does kind of make the decision, once the main office dude in Sydney agrees...then the replacement product is in reality sent straight away. if the damaged product gets to north and they feel it wasn't a warranty North Australia then has to wear the cost...which can in reality mean the retailer.


anyhow keep moaning 'be-atches'...peace out.

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eppo said..

anyhow keep moaning 'be-atches'...peace out.

LOL
I am glad you're now sharing in my red-thumbs collection.

Just read a couple of pages interviewing north kites CEO,
In it he said north didn't have importers distributors, one of the reasons was the difficulty in dealing with warranties,
My take is
You've got
Customer
Shop retailer
Importer
Company
Manufacturer
All which have a financial interest,
None from costumer to manufacturer are going to just hand goods over without assurances,
That's why as Eppo mentioned it takes time,
Give it that time, chase them up constantly, keep correspondence , etc

Hi Peeps,

Having been a North retailer since 2009, we have had a bit of experience with all aspects of their products: Kites, bars, twin tips, surfboards, fins, bags, clothing etc etc.
North offer an additional 6 months warranty on all of their products which I think is unique in our business.

I know there have been a few threads over the years where customers rage on about bad service, lack of warranty and the like, but honestly, in my experience dealing with North, they have honoured almost EVERY claim we have ever put through and the time frame has been what I consider pretty quick in most cases. There have been a few warranties granted where the customer was clearly in the wrong as a gesture of goodwill.

Surfboards are a tough one as they are used in indeterminable conditions and suffer incalculable loads. If you buy a surfboard from your local shaper, it doesn't come with a warranty of any type generally. They may offer you a 50% discount on a second board if it breaks on the same day, but that's about it. It's easier to bash a faceless corporation than it is to bash a small businessman or shaper.

Surfboard construction has been improving every year from North and we are seeing less and less warranty claims (most of which are split noses from the boards being drilled into the sandy bottom on a very shallow water wipeout whilst doing a downwinder here in Perth. Problem is, you just can't build a bulletproof board to withstand everything a customer will put it through. Keep in mind the surfboard is designed to only ever come in contact with water, so hitting reef, sand or whatever is outside of design and construction considerations. It does suck when an expensive piece of gear is damaged but it does happen.

The warranty process is expedited and handled well by shops with good customer service and a good relationship with the North AUS team. We also have a good relationship with the CEO of the company who visits Australia every year when they fly out their principal designers and tech people. They listen to all of our complaints and suggestions every year and take suggestions very seriously. The NKB AUS team have a good amount of input into shapes, ideas and much more. Trust me, North take their business very seriously and are always trying to improve their products and customer service. I for one and very pleased and proud to be a part of the team.

I don't know the people who were involved in the original involvement but we have nothing but good experiences for our customers when dealing with North, Fanatic and ION. Perhaps the person you initially spoke to was having a really crap day, we just don't know. I hope it all ends well.

DM

Saying that if I was making gear for others to enjoy this amazing sport and didn't have a hope of ever affording one
Then I'd be knocking up some dodgy gear

Livit, you're clearly livid!! But as everyone else pointed out, there's no need to bag out an entire organisation over one unpleasant experience especially when there's tons of happy customers out there who use their products and couldn't be happier. What's even worse is bringing it to a public form to put off potential buyers when your product was out of warranty and North had no obligation to touch it. Albeit I'm sure if you would've been nicer about it they would've helped you out!

I personally love the North brand with no affiliation but just entirety because they make great products and contribute to the development of our great sport

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ActionSportsWA said..


Surfboards are a tough one as they are used in indeterminable conditions and suffer incalculable loads. If you buy a surfboard from your local shaper, it doesn't come with a warranty of any type generally. They may offer you a 50% discount on a second board if it breaks on the same day, but that's about it. It's easier to bash a faceless corporation than it is to bash a small businessman or shaper.


DM

Darren, with all due respect I can't imagine your local shaper masking a dry laminate under the artwork and gamble on the fact that the customer will notice only when the warranty has expired...


I have smashed a few SB in shorebreaks, one of them was just a week old. Clearly my fault so I wouldn't even bother trying to claim a warranty on that. On the other hand, if I realise I got sold a lemon, I strongly believe it is fair to ask the manufacturer to take responsibility.


By the way, NKB never saw the board neither bothered contacting the repairer who was more than happy to talk to them.

I don't get it, why can't it be discussed on a public forum...it is just that. Livit has every right to bring up this topic if the outcome is still unsatisfactory.

The bottom line is to distinguish between general wear and tear and the quality of a specific item. Livit obviously didn't trash the item and he is discussing the build quality here. Warranty is warranty and this item is out of warranty, but the issue that Livit is bringing to the public forum is that the underlying build was dodgy. If it left the factory in less than satisfactory build quality (ie. is was bogged up) then the quality control of North is not good enough. Surely North have an ability to look at serial numbers or the like and trace back a product to a specific construction phase/shaper. As for using that language to describe a customer...bloke is lucky to have an ongoing job and an employer who supports such shortcomings....seriously.

Look at some of the numpty,s kiting
You'd be mad to offer a warranty on gear,

So Darren

To be clear, from the pics provided do you think that the quality of the build is acceptable

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NKBAUS said...
Don't worry Lofty, North is definitely still here and will always be a part of kiteboarding in Australia.

The issue at hand has been discussed with the customer, so there's no real need to go any further on a public forum.

The staff member involved is also undertaking customer service training, in line with our international brand standards, so the community out there can rest assure, there won't be anymore unsavory emails from us.
Cheers

You are pulling our leg right? What you really did is to apologise to your customer and fire the employee correct? I think this would be the appropriate action to restore brand image. I don't really care about the board. But calling a customer a **** is a no go even in the used car and kite industries!

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shi thouse said..
I don't get it, why can't it be discussed on a public forum...it is just that.
.....

I think I can answer this one: It can't be discussed because it is upsetting several people here that make money from selling North products, and had no interest in this issue until it was made public.

From what I can see:
* Absolutely no regard for an appalling build quality on a very expensive product. It doesn't mater that it is out of warranty, that glass job is disgraceful and should have never left the factory.
* A complete disregard for their customers. Labelling a customer with a four letter adjective shows complete contempt. The correspondence was obviously never expected to make it outside of the office, however, using that style of attitude to describe your clients internally is so far in the field of unprofessional it's not funny - If you use that language inside the organisation, sooner or later the adjective will go out because it has become second nature to refer to the client as a '****' when ever you talk about them. Where I work, it is a breach of conduct to use inappropriate or offensive language in correspondence (internal or external) - penalty is termination - it is in our employment contract.
* Warranty. I am not associated with any brands, and I pay for my gear. Back then, both my 2012 brand name (not North) kites had issues, the local shop took photos of the issue, and the serial number, took them off me and returned them 2 weeks later fixed. No questions, no fuss, they arrived in a box at my work. That's how customer service should be.

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Livit said..

NKBAUS said..
Sorry to hear you've had a bad experience with a North Board.
We are one of the worlds biggest kiteboard manufacturers and our workmanship defects are the lowest level in the industry.
If your having issues, again your local north dealer will be more then happy to help.

Well you haven't been "more than happy to help".... Even though I had a report from a professional repairer, you guys did not even want to have a look at it.

Many e-mails were exchanged and to my surprise I also got accidentally cc'd on an e-mail between the Australian Rep and his boss where they were calling me a C**t!!!!

Great customer service approach.


As far as I am concerned there won't be a North product in my quiver ever again....

fark me...................... who called you a cant?

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cloudsurfer said..
Livit, you're clearly livid!! But as everyone else pointed out, there's no need to bag out an entire organisation over one unpleasant experience especially when there's tons of happy customers out there who use their products and couldn't be happier. What's even worse is bringing it to a public form to put off potential buyers when your product was out of warranty and North had no obligation to touch it. Albeit I'm sure if you would've been nicer about it they would've helped you out!

I personally love the North brand with no affiliation but just entirety because they make great products and contribute to the development of our great sport

So your saying Livits board pitures is a great product?
YES or NO answer.

The best analogy I can draw from the situation is going to one of the big car dealers and buying a new car. Three years later after the warranty has expired the car needs some panel work as it has been damaged. The professional panel shop calls you back whilst doing repairs and shows you a heap of bog and filler that has been used by the manufacturer to "cover up" some dodgy workmanship (can't use the word "craftsmanship" as no craftsman would own up to let alone let that out of their workshop).

Anyway, you get in touch with the car manufacturer saying "hey whats with the dodgy work you did, I have had professional advice and evidence that what you have sold me if way below par" and get the response "too bad c#$t, its out of warranty and doesn't matter how bad a job we did. Hang on a minute, here is a bit of salt to rub into that wound we will give a 20% discount on a new board". Mmmmmm...tempting "I think I might take you up on that offer".

This has to be the best analogy to describe the current situation with this North Whip.

Since yesterday I have been receiving private messages from other people who had the same some sort of dealing with NKB which shows that this is not an isolated case. To my surprise I also received messages from a reputable retailer encouraging me to take it further and sending me this link:


<div class="MessageBox">www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees

It seems I would be within my rights even though the warranty has expired.

Just to clear things up, I am bringing up the fact that this specific item shouldn't have left the factory. Once again for those who can't see clearly:

*The photo on left is one of the 4 North box straight out of the factory but discovered lately after sanding. The other 3 had the same treatment...

*Middle photo is my personal work on my board number#2 that I made myself for a hydrofoil. Not much experience yet but you can tell the difference in term of snugness between the box and the core of the board.

*Photo on the right is my latest custom board received a couple of weeks ago from Sunova. This is what I call craftman work or should I say "artisan" work. This board does not hide anything dodgy, you can clearly see the work done around the fin box with bamboo inserts merging nicely onto the balsa skin. Parabolic rails are apparent too. This board is also 20% cheaper than the board on pic 1. Go figure....

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Livit said..

....

Since yesterday I have been receiving private messages from other people who had the same some sort of dealing with NKB which shows that this is not an isolated case.

....

I would find it very hard to believe that there are NOT others with similar dealings.

I have had a bit to do with corporate culture: For the email to be even drafted and sent internally (it was not meant to go to you) containing labels of customers as you have described above, there would have to be a culture at NKBA of referring to customers as low life dogs in 4 letters.

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NKBAUS said..
......

The staff member involved is also undertaking customer service training, in line with our international brand standards, so the community out there can rest assure, there won't be anymore unsavory emails from us.
Cheers

So, some "customer service training" - not fired and I would assume not financially penalised. Who needs training to tell them not to call the customer a ****? Who - someone who hears it and says it day in day out.... In any organisation I have been involved with, speaking to the client in this way he/she would be gone, putting this in writing even internally he/she would be a least demoted - again shows an accepted culture of this behaviour.

As I mentioned above, the use of this type of terminology is so natural to them it slips out. If it has slipped out this time, I find it hard to believe it hasn't slipped out before, and it will again.

Interesting, when I first started late in 2011, I visited a couple of local shops to enquire about lessons and buy a trainer - I seriously had no clue and was asking questions wanting to buy a $150 training there and then. The main reason I don't have any North products is my local North agent treated me like an absolute piece of **** on that day (I later found out he is the shop owner) so I have never gone back. wonder if there is a model....


And that's a shocking piece of glass slap-manship - can't even call that workmanship, let alone craftsmanship

I rest my case

What I would like to know is, has the matter been resolved?

Man this is a big read.
It might even make NEWS.com or ABC news if its keeps going.

Again i understand that the fins look rubbish, but how or why did you decide to sand the board back to expose the poor workmanship?
Did it show signs of the damage or did it grow?
I have a whip, which i think is the same as yours. (the short pointy nose, diamond tail one right?)
I bought mine 3 or 4 years ago? and its sweet.

I did however buy a kontact of the same year and dinged it, without fixing it properly and the bamboo filled with water and blistered up.
I just cut if off and bogged it and sweet.

I understand your pain tho.
These things are expensive and we should get what we pay for.

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KEAW YED said..
What I would like to know is, has the matter been resolved?

No it hasn't so far. North has gone silent and refuse to comment on the issue

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JOYRIDER said..


Again i understand that the fins look rubbish, but how or why did you decide to sand the board back to expose the poor workmanship?
Did it show signs of the damage or did it grow?

Salt built up around 2 of the fin boxes. Had no time to fix it myself and it was over 35 degrees in my shed which makes it difficult to work epoxy so I took it to a local pro repairer who quoted $120 for both boxes. As he started sanding it and got to the box he realised that the laminate was dry and a nasty bogged up job had been done on the fin box. Gave it more sanding, found more dry laminate, rotten bamboo, etc etc.

Basically the quote jumped from a reasonable $120 to about $400 which means you can pretty much write it off. As the repairer said it was the worst he has seen on a kiteboard, I thought I would contact North and give them the opportunity to discuss and resolve the issue. From day one there was no will to collaborate and find an agreement. The whole dialogue was revolving about the manufacturer warranty time frame and that if it would have been a manufacturing defect, it would have shown earlier.

I insisted they called the repairer and get a statement from him but they never did. Then came the e-mail I was not supposed to receive.....

Maybe I should just post it here actually.