does it replace the chicken loop as the dick is to short. Most I have seen ride this kite have had the dick fall out. Also I checked it against last years chickenloop and it is about a inch shorter atleast.
Just ask about any woman they will tell you that size does matter. and I can now say I know what they are talkng about. Anyway enough joking about. JB I'm thinking someone at the factory has made a little boo boo please check this out and let us know if what I think has happened is the case. Cheers the Professor.

Is smart loop free or is it going to cost? If it costs money I would be disgusted as a naish customer having to pay extra money to get a decent bar. If I remember correctly the reason it was not released with it was apparently it would have delayed the launch of sigma kites which is fair enough, I suppose. What is not fair is to have the customer pay extra money because they decided to rush a kite onto the market before finishing it. As I said initially if it's free its all good then, bar could definately be cleaned up a bit.

Professor,

I will check out the dick length. I have not had my dick fall out yet, but I'll check it out anyway and let you know.

SM, When we ordered all the sigma kites, they were prices accordingly. the difference is pretty close to what the price of a SMART LOOP will cost as an accessory. So I guess you could say we made the kites cheaper to get them out to you earlier, and then you can choose weather you wish to upgrade the bar to SMART LOOP. I think that kinda nice, as some people would probably rather save the money. Think of it like buying a car, you buy the car a base model, then you add the bigger stereo, and the body kit, tint the windows, put fat wheels on it and so on
Check with your local dealer as to SMART LOOP pricing and ETA, it's not far away.

Regards,

JB

Hay Guys I have been looking at the new smart loop. Looks like a heaps better idea to me.
http://www.naishkites.com/sigma/helix/helix_home.html
then click technology top of the page
then click control system bottom right of page
then further to the right you can click the radus button to change from available in the fall smart loop
to available with the standed loop.

Hi JB I noticed the bar has a leash with it. Does the helix kites come with the leash as standard?

Hi JB

What would you guesstimate the top end of a 12mtr Helix would be, as ive seen no wind range graphs...

Ive been out on my 12mtr bow kite in mid to high 20,s. Fun but a little umcomfortable, my guess is that the 12 Helix would easly be abel to handle these conditions???

cheers

Merman

Merman,

This is a little like the how long is a piece of string question. It depends on rider ability etc.... But IMO the HELIX has a far greater comfortable top end than any other kite comparing the same wind range. With bottom end of the SIGMA kites, you can nearly ride one size down from what you would normally ride, giving you even more top end for the same bottom end!

I personally would think I could ride, unstrapped on a surf board in about 25 knots with ease!

Regards,

JB

I have been riding a helix 7metre for a couple of weeks now and have found that it is a nice kite to fly. My last kite was a 06 waroo 7meter and I found that the helix has better high wind handling but slightly less low wind power. But still managed to ride waves in 15 knots "just" and only buy working the kite like mad. I have no regrets in buying this kite but do not think that is particuly special. The only real negative is the chicken loop quick release only lasted 2 sessions untill I put my own system on, as it kept smashing me in the side of the rist when I sheeted fully in, also the chicken dick is to short and came out a couple of times.

Put 4-5M extensions on the lines and you have all the bottom end and the same top end, but with the ability to boost much higher.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

JB I found a easy way to show you the dicks are to short. Just grap a bar from helix or cult get some one to hold onto a harness and make sure the hook does not move then pull the chicken straight up to vertical the dick will pop out every time.

hey guys i just rescently purchased the new 10.5m cult, i orginally had a td and it is a great new kite for the summer ahead. I flew it all yesterday in the 15-18 knot winds and it handled beautifully, great stability and light bar pressure but you still are able to sense where the kite is all the time. It has great constant power and good depower, the turning is amazing the quick and the relaunch is as easy as my td. jumping was great and unhooking i found was alot better obviously than my td. the kite does not luff about in the sky and is rock solid. overall impression is a great kite

Hey Realplayer wat ya weigh in at. Just wondering on how the sizes of these sigma kites are comparing. Were you powered enough in 15 knotts on th 10.5. Do you recon the kite flies like your bow or more like a "C" or just different alltogether like a "M".

Camo

Hey cammck

i know that ur ? isnt directed at me but...

I have a 12 mtr Helix, and have come from flying a 12mtr SS Turbo Diesel. Originally a SS 13mtr Fuel.

I,m 90ish kg on a good day very average kiter

The Helix flys much more like a C kite than a bow, but you do have some of the depower that a bow has, not so on and off as a bow kite.

also not quite as much low down grunt as my SS Turbo Diesel 12, the kite needs to be worked more to achieve the same power (but remember these kites are on 20mtr lines, they love to be flown fast).

From what i know the Cult is a little lower aspect than the Helix, so i would expect it to have better low end.

I need aleast 16 - 18 knts to be having any fun on my 12 Helix...

hope that gives ya somthin..

cheers

merman

Thanks Merman. I am only 72kgs of skin and bone and I have 2 07 Torches a 12 and a 10 which I really like. I have heard that it is hard to really tell much difference in the cult and the helix. Guess I will know once I try them both.

Camo

quote:

---

Originally posted by realplayer

hey guys i just rescently purchased the new 10.5m cult, i orginally had a td and it is a great new kite for the summer ahead. I flew it all yesterday in the 15-18 knot winds and it handled beautifully, great stability and light bar pressure but you still are able to sense where the kite is all the time. It has great constant power and good depower, the turning is amazing the quick and the relaunch is as easy as my td. jumping was great and unhooking i found was alot better obviously than my td. the kite does not luff about in the sky and is rock solid. overall impression is a great kite

---

Hi RP,

Would you mind giving your weight and board size?
(I'm 85kg and have an '07 FLX132)
I'm looking at buying the 10.5m Cult.
Thank you )_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_u

Decisions.... Decisions....

I’m definitely in the market for a couple of new kites. The question is... “Which ones?” Obviously, demoing all the possibilities would be the ideal option. But, realistically, getting hold of a kite at the same time as an appropriate wind could be problematic. So... A few questions....

But first, some background. I am a lower intermediate kiter, and have been for a long time. Just a slow learner. Every time I have bought new gear, my riding has improved. And I’m keen to step up again. I bought a second hand Crossbow 1 last season and instantly loved it. Not a huge fan of the high bar pressure, but that seemed a small price to pay. I ended up breaking my hand (in a non kiting accident) and not getting much time on the water. But I had already decided that I wanted to start this season off with new toys. Reports from mates with the ’07 models were that they were even better than the originals. I fully expected to get a Crossbow 3 (12m) and a Contra (17m). (This sounds large compared to most of the sizes you guys seems to quote, most of the time. But they are the sizes that get used most of the time where I sail.)

Then I saw the Sigma kites. I know there is a lot of marketing hype and techno-babble, but the fact that Naish has committed their entire line (with the exception of new graphics on the ’07 Torch) to the new shape sounds very promising. Not dissimilar to the way Cabrinha abandoned C kites in one hit and embraced the bow. That’s a huge gamble to take if they had any doubts about the concept.

Although I haven’t ruled Cabrinha out, I am definitely hedging towards the Sigma kites. Just not sure which one. I do have a few questions. Probably for JB, since he seems to be the local expert on these kites.

Firstly, (and this refers to the entire range) how stable are these kites on the beach? There’s been a lot of talk about how stable they are in the air, but the kink in the leading edge does look like it might make for too much air flow underneath the kite when it is beached, potentially causing the kite to take off down the beach. It looks like it might require a truck load of sand to keep it safely beached. As my local beach is more gravel and mud than sand, this is certainly a concern. I know the Crossbows lie down VERY securely at rest.

Secondly, how different are the Cult and the Code? I saw an interview with a Naish distributor on kiteblog that pretty much said that the Code was a Cult without the Octopus inflation and a single canopy colour. The images I’ve seen look like there is a different aspect ratio (although that could be simply different viewing angles) and JB’s post a while back suggested that the span was different. I’ve seen it described as a Sigma kite, without the bells and whistles. If the Octopus inflation and graphics are the only bells and whistles then choosing between these two will come down to price. Vs the convenience of a single pump system. But if they ARE different beasts...

My real decision will be between the Cult/Code and the Helix. On one hand I am likely to prefer the ‘more forgiving’ nature of the Cult. On the other, the 7 strut Helix will probably be slightly more similar to the Crossbow that I am used to (although still VERY different, by the sounds of it.) And perhaps, judging by most of the reviews, they are both in the ‘forgiving’ category when compared to the Crossbow and the bigger wind range of the Helix would also be a better choice. I change my mind every 5 minutes about which way I think I’ll go. I don’t expect anyone to answer that for me. But are there any other factors I should be including in that comparison? (Apart from price. I’m trying to ignore that (not easy for a tight ass, like myself) and get the best kite I can.)

I would also be keen to try the kite in 2:1 mode, even though this seems to be a pretty unpopular choice, judging by this thread (and others). I loved 2:1 when I first used it on the Crossbow. Maybe that’s just me. And this raises a philosophical/marketing question about packaging the kites with a bar and lines. (Particularly as the Cult is coming with a 1:1 setup.) There’s been a bit of discussion about new kites being sold with old/’incomplete’ bars. I don’t really have a problem with that, per se, and understand the reasons given. But why are they so often packaged together in the first place? Surely, in the vast majority of cases, ’08 kites will fly just as well with ’07, or even ’06 bars. (And older, with a few minor upgrades.) This is certainly not an absolute statement, but would generally be true. Particularly within a brand, but even between different brands.

Shouldn’t it be up to the consumer to decide whether to upgrade the bar as well? Whatever decision I make, I will most probably end up with 2 new kites. (I will buy one first and then see for myself what its wind range is like before committing to the second.) This means I will probably end up with 2 new kites and 2 new bars. One of which will never be used because it’s the same as the one that is already wet and sandy from the last session. I saw a site in the US selling the kite and bar separately. They were selling the bar for US$400. I wouldn’t mind hanging on to that sort of money rather than spending it on something I’m never going to use.

We get to choose which board we ride with which kite. Why lock in the bar? If I buy a windsurfing sail, the mast is a separate item, even though mast selection has a huge impact on the performance of the sail.

Surely, the majority of kite sales these days are to customers who already have a kite (and bar and lines). Isn’t it time to let them decide whether or not to buy a new bar and lines? And what length lines they want to buy, rather than saddling them up with a standard issue bar with every kite and then upgrading. I understand the logistical problem of selling different bars with the same model kite. But if they were separate items, that problem goes away because the bar and lines are really not dead stock at the end of the season. They are simply older models (like older model boards), and the new ones aren’t really that much different (functionally) so plenty of people will be happy enough with ‘last year’s bar. The problem really only occurs if you lock in a bar to a particular season’s kite release.

hey guys ye i am around 73kg and was powered in 14 knots but mind you i did have a 2knot tide to help and i was surprised that i probably had the same power just about as my 12 bow, my board is a 132 slingshot sx i think. i really think the cult is quite similiar to a bow, but seeing as i havnt flown c in a while i cant realy comment but i really do think that it felt like a quick responsive stable version of my bow

I tried the Helix 9 meter in around 25 nots. I weigh 60 kilos. I ride a Slingshot Misfit 127 cm

How awesome is the kite!!!!

Could some one tell me what the bottom end would be for the 9 meter with the Misfit and with a light wind board?

Dose kite come with safety leash?

some guy i went kitin with the other day had his bar snap on his 9m helix... humm thats not cool!

ummm so lowstevo

can you give us some details??? so what happened??? where did it snap on the bar???

not tryen to be a forum nazi, but i,m keen to know, as i,m flyen a 12mtr Helix.

cheers

merman

Hi Zac,

I am pretty pushed for time atm, But I think you'll find all your questions answered earlier either in this thread or in the wave test one.

Basically the kites are very stable, they all have the same great properties that the SIGMA and GEO-TECH provide, the differences between the models are minor, they are more set up to suit price points. You can get a killer kite with just standard features (Code) at a killer price! or pay pay the full wack and get all the bells and whistles (the Helix). No rider would be dissapointed with the Code, this kite rocks, and yes it flies very similar to the Cult.

On the beach, is a magic trick. No sand needed!! (I still recommend using sand!!!!!!! seriously! but it's not needed, the gap actually works to help homd the kite on the beach by evening the pressure difference from behind and in front of the canopy. Once again, all this has been explained in earlier posts.

To decide, you really only need to work out 2 things! 1.SLE or SHIFT? and then how much money you wish to spend(if you choose the SLE option)! All the kites are amazing, and you be so impressed that you'll never look back!

Regards,

JB

Do these new features of the kites structure/material mean that repairs are going to be very specialized? and hence expensive?

Demoed 9m helix, pure joy, but what a shocking bar setup, bits and pieces hanging everywhere!!!!! and the dick doesnt stay in the loop.

Yep the bar is messy I cant reach the depower straps , when is the smart loop coming out

With the smart loop it will probably be one of the cleanest bars on the market.Im not sure though if you can attach the mini 5th line with the smart bar.

Hey,

Looking at upgrading to the Naish Cult....quick question...

I have an '05 Boxer, 9M and 12M....
will the Cult cover the same wind range as both C kites? I have heard the wind range is incredible on the cult and helix....

Will it have enough power to equal my 12M '05 Boxer?? IF so, Im sold!

Two step , I still personally think with these kites you require a two kite quiver, I have gone for a 9mtr cult and I have a 12 mtr t3.

The nine mtr cult has a huge wind range , I can get going in about 20 knots on the nine and hold it well over 30 knots I will be riding surf boards more so I think I will probably get more use out of the nine than my 12.

I am not interested anymore in flying big kites in low wind as its plain boring.Dont let anyone tell you that the kite looses its bottom end due to the 20 mtr lines , its got plenty , and also jumping I have probably done my biggest jumps on the 20 mtr lines.
Check the naish website for wind ranges.

Two step, you will find the 10.5 Cult will over the range of both the 9 and 12M Boxer c kites.
You will find that you will not only jump higher with 4 or 5 M line extensions you will get a few extra knots of bottom end.
I have used both the Cult and helix kites with and without 4M line extensions and I will not be going back to riding on 20M lines.
Some people will swear by the 20's but they will be riders who will be riding surfboards in the surf and not flat water riding and looking for big boosting performance.

@ danza
Check with your local dealer they will sort out the mini 5th line issue.
Its not really necessary if you clip your leash around the centre line below the bar, but if you prefer that system it can be rigged off the back of the front line triangle connector at the top of the smart loop. We have smart loops in stock now and can assist any rider to rig their bar with it and fit mini 5ths to many modern flat/bow/hybrid kites.
Many kites can actually have a 5th line safety fitted quite easily.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Smart Loop Retro kit is in stock now at your local Naish Dealer for $149! Worth a look at, makes your bar super clean, and easy to operate. Also the Chicken Dick is longer to those of you experiencing issues with STD loops Dick!

Regards,

JB

Just demoed the 14m helix today. I am a beginner/intermediate rider. Conditions wernt the greatest, was gusting anywhere from 8 to 13 knots. All i can say is this kite is awesome. I learnt on a 12m Naish Boxer, then went to a 16m Naish Torch and found that too big. All i can say is this kite is so stable in the air. I do my signature move alot (boosting and eating it, then turning around to watch the kite roll over me), but with this kite, it didn't happen once.

It took a bit of getting used to boosting, but after a couple of tries I got it dialed. I felt that if you really powered the kite, it over sheets and doesnt make much power. But i think its just a matter of getting used to this kite.

Coming from other Naish kites, the bar setup didnt feel that bad, but i am definately looking forward to trying the smart loop

Got the smart loop on my 12mt helix(1 sesh ago),not to happy with the PRICE and why it did not have in first place, but i found after 10 mins.... ( I liked it Alot, no realy ALOT ) I might have had a few to many before kitting, But i say more power and far more depower to the stage where it was to much and nearly ditched the kite in the shells. the only thing i dont like is in real gusty conditions it feels like you have to reach out a little further on the bar. But for me BIG improvement and i reckon unhooking will be much more reachable (easier) .........

YoungBull,

I agree, the SMart loop is awsome, it is a bummer it wasn't available until now, but the kites were priced accordingly (i.e. your kite would have cost more if it were delivered with Smart loop), but we would not have had any in the country until now, as the smart loop has only just become available now. For the difference it makes to your bar, it is well worth it.

Regards,
JB