have to agree with a lotta comments in this thread,used the helix 12 this morning in gusty 20/30 knots''smooth'' is definately the only way to describe it...has little or no bar pressure..although i'm 105kg,it was windy/gusty,no doubting,to the extent where i wouldnt blame anyone for riding...you know,sometimes when you get a big gust from behind and no matter how heavy/railing hard/experienced you are,and regardless of the kite's wind window position...YOU GOIN' DOWNWIND BIGTIME!..where normally i'd get splattered,i could always recover on the helix...turning speed was definately fast,but supersmooth in all turns...after riding 07 naish ravens,i thought this sigma kite series wouldnt be exiting to ride..but i was wrong.
i easily did some big airs,maybe one was as close as my biggest last summer..i agree it was a little bit slower in re-direction,but you got the swing of the bar manipulation after say the scond or third jump...upwind ability was great as well.one thing you do notice is how stable the canopy is...rock solid like no kite before that ive seen...build quality was first class as you'd expect,pumped up a treat,the bar was and still is the best in the buisness...if your not on this range of kites this year,your definately missing out!

..i'd also have to agree with ''em''...doesnt feel like a bow/sle,
...it's like a tweeked-up five line with scope for a lotta different riders...do yourselves a favour,go and have a ride on one..you'll see.

quote:

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Originally posted by stormrider

have to agree with a lotta comments in this thread,used the helix 12 this morning in gusty 20/30 knots''smooth'' is definately the only way to describe it...has little or no bar pressure..although i'm 105kg,it was windy/gusty,no doubting,to the extent where i wouldnt blame anyone for riding...you know,sometimes when you get a big gust from behind and no matter how heavy/railing hard/experienced you are,and regardless of the kite's wind window position...YOU GOIN' DOWNWIND BIGTIME!..where normally i'd get splattered,i could always recover on the helix...turning speed was definately fast,but supersmooth in all turns...after riding 07 naish ravens,i thought this sigma kite series wouldnt be exiting to ride..but i was wrong.
i easily did some big airs,maybe one was as close as my biggest last summer..i agree it was a little bit slower in re-direction,but you got the swing of the bar manipulation after say the scond or third jump...upwind ability was great as well.one thing you do notice is how stable the canopy is...rock solid like no kite before that ive seen...build quality was first class as you'd expect,pumped up a treat,the bar was and still is the best in the buisness...if your not on this range of kites this year,your definately missing out!

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So no good for waves then?
(I don't ask this to flame - this is a genuine question for someone interested in a purchase)

trevor1,the helix has a really tight turning circle...also to,alot of times when you re-direct out of a jump,your normally sheeted in quite hard,which will affect kite speed,but say when you are running down the line in waves,your doing the opposite,steering bak and forth and sheeting out,only sheeting in when say you hit the lip...put it this way,if it can give me the control that i had today in really gusty/windy conditions...i think down the like will be no issue,if not ideal...but remember,it always takes some time to adapt to a new kite...hope that helps.

Glad you understand now stormrider, might be the perfect kite for hurricane bob, but seriously the kite does need to be sheeted out to start a turn but once the kite is moving you can power back on. Got to practice the water relaunch tonight- easy once I figured it out, still digging the kite ! Boosts in light wind were awesome.

Yes, I know, had said I wouldn't ramble about it but I just can't resist: took the kite out yesterday in powered up conditions (finally!!!), and... OH MY GOD!!!
It's one of those kites that just seems to get better at each go... Bloody great boost and hang time (lovin it), it's always spot on where it should be, the Geo-tech does the job amazingly well (the flapping generation is definitely over!) and again, amazed with the stability: I did think it was quite gusty while cruising but I assumed there had to be 5 to 10 knots gusts at the most... I checked the charts when I got back home: there were 15 knots gusts while I was out there... WOW!
I'm sticking to what I last wrote: this kite makes sh#t conditions enjoyable!
And big thumb up for the wind range: sweet as!!!
Also, extremely powerful kite: felt my guts traveling up my stomach on couple of occasions yesterday, thinking "Gee, that baby is really pulling big time!" (Hadn't had some serious adrenalin fix in ages and Gosh, this did feel good!!!). The Helix definitely has some personality!
The only negative I could find by the end of my session was... that this kite isn't mine!!! lol...
But by the look of things, I don't think it's ever going to return to the Demo shelf!!!

Em, how would you compare the boost and hang time to a Rhino7? From memory, you've ridden both 07 Norths...

quote:

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Originally posted by Buschy

Em, how would you compare the boost and hang time to a Rhino7? From memory, you've ridden both 07 Norths...

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I would say, from what I've tried yesterday, that the hang time is pretty similar: the Helix has a wicked floaty effect on the way down, and makes you land way downwind from where you threw your jump, the same way my Rhino used to. I'd however say that the Helix does it much more smoothly (I didn't get any "dropped like a stone" effect at any point!).
In height, it is hard to tell at this stage, as I hadn't been riding for ages when I went out yesterday and I know I wasn't holding my edge properly, so I did do a fair bit of those "stupid long jumps" (kook!). It is hard for me at this point to appreciate the height, but I was already quite impressed with what I got out of the Helix yesterday. There's definitely some boost potential there!
Based on 2 very gusty sessions (not quite relevant), I'd say I've achieved much higher heights with my Rhino so far (but I've also taken my Rhino out in pretty insane wind strengths...), but I will get back to you on this matter whenever I've got the chance to get a proper big air session with the Helix.

Took out 12helix today in 4 to 5 foot surf. The wind was 20 to 28 knots kite was stable .Air time was long & high depower was good. Would have pefered to try a 9m but they only had a 12m demo. Try to do back rolls with a kite loop, which I pull off doubles with my waroos. But could not get the helix around fast enough. By the end of 5 hours had alot of fun but need the kite to loop faster need to try a 9m to see if loops quicker.

Tezza,

When you say the kite didn't turn fast enough, what were you comparing it to (i.e. another 12m, brand, etc...)? I am interested to know, as I felt the HELIX turned amazingly quick.

Also ballsy move doing kiteloop moves in 28 knots with the 12m HELIX. Thumbs up!

JB

waroo 12 06 usually pull of 95% of the time but in that wind i would not have my 12 out i would be on my 9m. my friend allso tried & had the same problem. need to try the kite agian or try the alliance. kite taking a while to get use to when every body finished trying the demo i will pick it up agian.

I have spent much more time on the kite now, app 8hours on the water. I am loving the boost- my jumps are so much bigger yet so easy to control and my dodgy knees are loving the pillow soft landings. Took the kite out in waves for a downwinder in app 10 knots. The kite is very happy to sit there stable whilst you are on the wave and one quick pull on the bar and it is powering up again, wave riding potential seems really good. Also had it in gusty conditions at Goolwa, decent size surf but very off and on wind. Sometimes I think as low as 18 knots then up to around 30 knots. Kite behaved well and I felt comfortable, didn't notice the gusts too much but needed to allow plenty of room to jump ! I can not comment on the ease of kiteloops but I think having ridden a waroo that it is not the speed of the kite that is causing the problem for tezza but the genuine c kite pull the helix generates during a kiteloop- no offence tezza- I think that given a couple of sessions you would have adjusted to the feel of the kite.

JB might correct me on this but I also felt like the kite turns better when the bar is let out a little as opposed to the waroo that will turn faster with the bar pulled in.

All in all I rate the kite - upwind, wind range, waveriding and boost- can't comment on the freestyle tricks as I don't do them.

Thats good but doing a double with a kite loop spotting the landing and now trying to remember to push the bar out just made it even harder. I thought it was hard enough.

Quick review of the 12m helix (set on 1:1).

Conditions: 15-16kt average, gusting up to 20kt. Choppy water
Rider Level - Intermediate (boosting, basic tricks, working on rotations)
Weight: 105kg
board: 666 132x41
normal kite: 07 Waroo 13m

The good - Wicked kite, very fast turning, responsive, loads of grunt, smooth power/depower, wicked hangtime, very stable, no flutter at all.

The Bad - i have some concerns on build quality. firstly where the depower line splits from 1 into 2 strands for the stopper bar, i found the bar rubbed a lot when passing over it. This was made worse by the safety line running through at the same time. This will probably wear fairly quickly in my oppinion.

Looking at the kite from the bottom, it appeared that the central leading edge join seemed to bulge close to the centre strut. there seemed to be a soft spot at that location as well. Big concern on the kite i flew today as it is a central load point.

In some of the overpowered gusts when i boosted, the wingtip seemed to catch on the bridal and flick out, this might just be me not being used to the way it performed.

finally i found it difficult to boost big. long is easy but i couldnt work out big. I've read that you need to fly it differently but i havent nutted out the best way of boosting it yet.

The Verdict - Wicked kite. Worth the 2.2g? probably not for me, i would need to see one thrashed about first hand to see how well it holds up over time. But thats just me.

I tried the exact same kite briefly today, same conditions. Same setup. 1:1. Also flew it briefly twice yesterday in very light 10-12 knot winds. Could 'mow the lawn' but that's about it... Had my 07 14m Rebel with me both days; flew back-to-back. Currently own a 07 14/9 Rebel quiver. 70kg. Nobile 666 129. Ability...jumps, basic front and back rotations. Hooked in.

Things I liked:
- rockets upwind, even yesterday.
- overall stability - canopy rock solid, no deformation or flutter during use
- bar pressure - light, easy on arms
- low end grunt - park and accelerate quickly
- floaty hang

Things I didn't like so much:
- bar play / immediate steering response
- boosting - related to above

I think the issue with the steering is heavily influenced from spending so much time on my Rebel(s). They are just very different kites (yes.. been said many times before…) and it does basically come down to what you’re used to. I just felt the kite didn't have the immediate feedback that I get when I pull on the bar of my Rebel. Once the kite does respond it crosses the window fairly quickly. I imagine this bar play/delay can somewhat be appreciated at times, as it forgives mistakes caused by subtle bar movement (in the wrong direction) while learning new tricks. Sometimes, if I pull the bar on my Rebel 9 (which by the way loves to pivot/pinwheel) incorrectly while attempting a new trick I pay the price and eat s..t almost immediately

I am 100% sure the problem with boosting big is a direct result of not being able to send the kite the way I am used to. It's a timing issue (and also a bit of an edging issue, you get lazy on Rebels) and I'm sure that it would resolve itself after a few more goes and once I get used to the way the kite reacts to steering input. Today I saw more than one person boost a big jump with the Helix 9 and 12m.

Conclusion: Nice kite. Definitely a lot more positive to say than negative but probably not the kite for me at this stage.

ok my turn.....

was lucky enough to have a 9m helix demo all to myself this afternoon


basically i took it out and didn't bring it back in....a very stable, fast turning kite with what seemed easy jumping and hang time for the conditions...winds ranged probably from about 15 - 23 in the gusts ...

it seems to absorb gusts well and flies with a firm skin...the setup has a long trim line with a sliding stopper...the kite does seem to need the longer trim to access it depower....the kite feels powerful for its size....

i like a fast, responsive kite and this one easily qualifies.....it's bar pressure is great (not too light and not too heavy) ....the bar was 50cm and the lines 20m....would be interesting to see how it rides on 25m lines.


anyway....definitely worth checking out...i was a little sceptical of the design but Naish have built a great flying kite.


unfortunately i hear that the RRP is such that my only time using one might be if i can steel the demo 9m away again before it's sent onto the next spot... [}:)]

quote:

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Originally posted by max_ob

unfortunately i hear that the RRP is such that my only time using one might be if i can steel the demo 9m away again before it's sent onto the next spot... [}:)]

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Max,
I thought I'd bring a little explanation there, regarding the RRP comment...

The Helix is the premium of the SIGMA range, it showcases all the bells and whistles that Naish have to offer for 2008 season. And this is not just limited to the SIGMA outline and Geo-tech: 7 struts for extra canopy stability, the Octopus inflation system, SLE control bar convertible to either 2:1 to 1:1 and of course all the Aramid, foam bumpers and other features that come as standard with every Naish Kite.

The Helix also provides the slightly wider span offering the broadest wind range of all the SIGMA kites. It is not highly priced when you consider all its features: there are a number of premium kites from other brands that match or exceed the HELIX pricing without as much technology and features as the HELIX.

All the SIGMA kites boast similar performance advantages and characteristics, but have been priced and configured to suit different preferences and price ranges to appeal to different people’s needs. The HELIX and CULT are very similar kites.
The CULT is extremely competitively priced and performs at a premium level, it offers an amazing ride and at an easily affordable price!
But for those you like to pay the rest to get everything there is on offer, the HELIX is there.

The CULT is a 5 strut kite, that still uses the SIGMA outline and GEO-TECH, has the OCTOPUS inflation system, but it does come with a slightly simpler bar that can only be used in 1:1 configuration.

Dollar for dollar, you basically get what you pay for...

It is important to put these kites in the correct place when comparing them to their competitors pricing in the market, you can’t compare Hyundai’s with Ferrari’s.

It is comforting to know that you only get the best in technology and design from the base of the SIGMA series (the CODE) all the way the to cream of the crop (the HELIX)...



And yes, this was a wonderful sales speech, so bloody nicely put that it barely didn't sound like it came from me!!!!

em...

that was some lecture....you do like talking...how come you are so knowledgeable regarding the sigma kites?

actually, i was given the incorrect RRP at the time....my comment was based on a price of $2400 for the 12m but i've since been told its much less....

also....i think the helix should be offered with the 1:1 bar setup as a slightly cheaper option.....really....who cares for all the extra pulley stuff?....the 9m flew great on the 1:1 setup....

can you tell me what the purpose of the 2:1 system is?

Hi Max,

The HELIX comes with the convertable bar so that it can offer both settings (2:1 & 1:1), as it is the top of the line in the SIGMA Series. I agree that the kite doesn't need the 2:1 setting personally, but the kite does need to satisfy an international market, and there is still a demand for pullied 2:1 control bars in some countries. Anyway you won't notice the pulleys there, and the bars come in the 1:1 setting from the factory. And who knows, maybe one shockingly gusty day you may wish to ride with them. But if you can not afford the HELIX, then perhaps you should look at the CULT, it is so similar to HELIX in performance you'll nearly find it hard to justify the extra coin for the HELIX. This makes choosing your kite out of the SIGMA Series quite easy, if you want a better price over features, step down a model. They all fly very close in performance, even the CODE (released later this year) will blow your mind, this kite will not hold any rider back, and will be at an amazing price point.

The logistics of stocking different bars, and matching different packages to suit individual needs would be a nightmare, and impossible to get right, leaving stores and importers with dead stock at the end of the season and forcing them to raise prices to be able to afford to offer this luxury. It also doesn't line up with release dates, as the 2:1 bar was released first (with the HELIX) and the 1:1 will be coming out next with the CULT (ETA 1st or 2nd week of Sept.), so we would of had to hold back the release of HELIX also.

Regards,

JB

quote:

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Originally posted by max_ob

em...
that was some lecture....you do like talking...how come you are so knowledgeable regarding the sigma kites?

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LOL
Because the big guy above works next to me in the office!!!

It helps...

Let me explain EM's response.
She works at the importers of the Naish gear,as does JB.

I believe they have disclosed this ,so,no comments from me about the amount of pimping,I mean "reveiwing" that they have been doing.

They are in a bit of a pickle though,because one day they are saying the Healicks makes all ather kites obsolete etc. ("Old and saggy" I believe JB said)it makes one wonder how they will move the new North range,which they also import??
The new Rebels are ,after all,"old and saggy dinasours"!!

Also,I don't understand how the Cult? can be significantly cheaper because it has two less struts,and a bit of reinforcement missing ?

Surely no one is that guilable to believe there would be much of a difference in production cost from the factory in China ?? Maybe 50 bucks? At the most!More like 15! The truth is,their is no diference in production cost. Its just another marketing ploy.

Oh well,I must try these kites as soon as they get up my way.Only way to tell I suppose.

ok....em's response makes sense now...and JB...i do understand the issues with the bars given as options with the kites....

User....i can't comment on the 12m Helix not having flown it....but the 9m Helix did impress me...imho....definitely a kite worth trying....

quote:

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Originally posted by user

Let me explain EM's response.
She works at the importers of the Naish gear,as does JB.

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User, "she" also works in a shop that sells CABRINHA as well as other brands. I love variety, would never want to see one single type of kite down the beach, and believe that different products suit different riders. FULL STOP.
You hit us with the "pimp" stick in the gear review section, for a kite you admit not having flown mate. We're just reviewing gear. Worse: may be we actually just LIKE the kite...
Whatever...
And yes, I will agree with your last sentence....Stop whinging for the sake of it...
(Curious to see now how long it is gonna take him to be set on fire... Countdown started....)

Disappointing Hype:

To my disappointment, I tried a Naish Helix today. With great anticipation, I hooked in to the 12 meter white and green Helix, in 12 - 20 knots S winds. The conditions where poor, I'll admit, the wind was gusty, on and off, and it was raining. But I have heard so much hype and good things about the kite that I thought it could do anything! After spending several minutes to try even get the thing in the air, I was greeted to a slow unresponsive kite. The 12 turning much slower than my 11 Fuel, as it slowly worked it's way through the wind window. Previously before flying the 12, I was on a 9m F-one Bandit, which was an awesome kite, handeling the conditions well for it's size. As soon as I jumped on the Helix however, it was a mission to even keep it in the air. Power was minimal, and boost wasn't very high. I have heard so much hype about how good this kite is, that I frankly felt disappointed, and even slightly angry about my poor first impressions on the kite.

I'm going to conclude that in bad conditions, this kite is hopeless. I hope that in stronger winds I will be more pleased with the performance of the kite.

9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-

Well Justin has posted an honest review.

I have heard the same thing from a couple of sources,that the Helix goes OK in strong wind,but can fall down in a lull.?

I've flown the Helix today in pretty unsteady wind (again), and during the drops, it was the only kite that kept me going.
I've have seen today other riders on the Helix keeping their gound while everybody else was doing the walk of shame.
I'm not discussing Justin's experience: it's his.
I'm just a bit surprised because the Helix has amazed me with its ability to steadily handle gusty condition and deliver a great upwind performance and punchy grunt on light wind.
It's your right not to like the kite Justin... May be it was a bad day? Give it the benefit of the doubt and another shot.
This kite is heaps cool on light wind! Me think.

Em,
What size Helix were you using? Also,could you mention the board size.
Thankyou.

quote:

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Originally posted by user

Let me explain EM's response.
She works at the importers of the Naish gear,as does JB.

I believe they have disclosed this ,so,no comments from me about the amount of pimping,I mean "reveiwing" that they have been doing.

They are in a bit of a pickle though,because one day they are saying the Healicks makes all ather kites obsolete etc. ("Old and saggy" I believe JB said)it makes one wonder how they will move the new North range,which they also import??
The new Rebels are ,after all,"old and saggy dinasours"!!

Also,I don't understand how the Cult? can be significantly cheaper because it has two less struts,and a bit of reinforcement missing ?

Surely no one is that guilable to believe there would be much of a difference in production cost from the factory in China ?? Maybe 50 bucks? At the most!More like 15! The truth is,their is no diference in production cost. Its just another marketing ploy.

Oh well,I must try these kites as soon as they get up my way.Only way to tell I suppose.

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User, the difference in price between the Cult and Helix is quite easy to see. I will try and simplify it using estimated prices.

2 x Bladders (approx $50 each), 2 x Ronstan High load air Blocks (approx $30-$40 each), 2 less Octopus valves on the leading edge (est. $10), so your looking at approx $170+ just in materials, not including the actual dacron, arimid, foam buffers and labor to build the struts. I think it pretty much speaks for it's self.

The Rebel gets past the saggy kite effect by using Cam Battens and superior draft stability and placement (which is significantly deeper than any other kite on the market), it is probably still not quite as tight as the SIGMA kites, but North proved itself last year to be better than any other kite for canopy stability (IMO) and I believe REBEL 08 is better than lasts years REBEL. The REBEL has amazing performance, and there is always going to be North customers that love the feel of North kites over everything else (and they do have their own special feel), there is no need to worry about REBEL sales as the kite rocks! Anyway thats beside the point, this is a Helix review. I would love to post a REBEL review, but I can't get on the water to test it (Damn Sydney!)

Now, I think everyone knows by now that I work for Windgenuity, and probably also know that Emilie does as well. But we are still both kiters, and both able to have valid opinions (well I'd like to think so anyway). I have a decent amount of experience, and have flown many many kites in my time, I and am also a sail maker by trade and look at kites in both their performance and their construction (both materials and design), I have spent years prior to Kiteboarding flying and making my own power kites. This is one of the main reasons I enjoy working for two of the worlds premium brands, as it is a comfort to know that only the best materials and technology are used, along with the best R&D teams in the industry (IMO), continously placing them on the cutting edge of this sports development. It is fortunate that I have the pleasure of working in this industry, and it should hinder my reviews on experience.

I look forward to hearing your honest review of the SIGMA kites.

All the best,

Regards,

JB