...i guess the other problem you have on the forums is crew never look at themselves as far as kiteflying skills are concerned...maybe
in some instances conditions are to blame...but after being involved in the sport since the early days, i see this as a problem in lots of newbie kiters...but everybody is entitled to their opinion,so its good to listen to all reports

liked stormrider comment...
I -too- believe its the rider who flies the kite!
But beginers are part of the market and are entitled to their own opinions as well... And a kite should be appreciated by different riders, from complete beginers to pro, with all the spectrum in between... Different people will like different kite and that's why we are offered such a wide variety of products!
User, I was flying a 12m Helix and was riding both my Jaime pro 125' and my strapped custom fish 5'10. Essentially used the surf board, knowing that, due to my skill level in waves, I tend to get planning earlier on my TT than I do with the big board! -yes, it happens!-
Following JB's response, I also feel the need to precise that JB and I are very different riders.
JB is a sponsored wave riding champion with close to ten years of kitesurfing behind him, he's one big guy (did't say fat!!!! lol) who likes very powered up riding, while my type of riding is located to a totally different place of the spectrum: I have been kitesuring for over three years, I'm half his weight (I mean, nearly!), I'm a freestyle rider much more than a wave rider, our type of riding are totally different and as kitesurfers, I believe we have different needs and expectations from a kite...
It's already happened that both of us tried a kite a came back with totally different feedbacks!
This isn't a place for work fraternity: JB and I don't often appear in the same posts, we haven't the same tastes, discussions at work are often animated and I do find that the fact we both like the Helix is a point in itself.
I like the Helix cause it's a good kite, not because I was asked by anyone to say so!
Also, I work in a very tolerant environment and I've NEVER been asked to fly a certain kite. My kite selection for my private use and my kite appreciation aren't whatsoever pressured by work (I CAN fly what I like!).
I'm lucky enough to work in an industry where I have access to new gear (and knowledge, experience...), I see it as a privilege (that I use!) and I try to share my impressions, from a kitesurfer's point of view...
Now that we're once for all done with this subject, I'd be curious to hear other people's feedbacks on their impressions with the Helix on light and gusty wind. Anyone?

Allow me to re-clarify my statement. From my experience, In BAD conditions (I'm admitting the conditions where bad) The kite handled poorly. The kite handled far worse than the new F-one Bandit. To put this in perspective, whilst one person was on the beach attempting to demo the kite, I was out ripping on the 9 m Bandit quite easily. The person whom flew the kite was also very disappointed in it's performance. I was surprised. So we switched. Once again, a similar affect occurred. He was ripping on the Bandit, and I also disliked the performance of the kite. Yes, the day was subjective, and a true review of the kites performance in good wind cannot be made. However, an analysis of how the kite performs in BAD conditions can be made. And from this, I have made my own, personnel conclusion, that the kite handles poorly in poor conditions, and other kites can handle the conditions better than the Helix.

I have no grudge with Naish, I actually love the brand, I was going to fly a Torch, until I got a better offer on the Slingshot Fuel.

Questioning a reviewer’s kite flying experience is not a valid reason to excuse a poor review. When you think about it, for a kite marketed at beginners to advanced, shouldn't all reviews be valid? I'd say that kite boarding experience, is far less subjective than the reviews and hype generated my Naish affiliates.

....fair call justin!...in the end ,this forum doesnt influence
what i like to ride,smart enough/good enough rider to sort that out...maybe its a good idea for crew when they post a review to give an honest assesment on their own riding level,then readers can relate to that on a personal level and see where the review is coming from...i agree,its good to read reviews from all levels,thats the only way to improve kiting as a whole...but the point is not to take one riders opinion as gospel...any thoughts laurie?...good winds
to all!

I got told that the Helix relaunch is not that great from some guys who have used it for almost a month now. Has anyone tried to relaunch the kite in lite winds 10-14knots?

User wrote:

quote:

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Surely no one is that guilable to believe there would be much of a difference in production cost from the factory in China ?? Maybe 50 bucks? At the most!More like 15! The truth is,their is no diference in production cost. Its just another marketing ploy.

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I'd say User is about right with 50. The difference in cost is naff all compared to the market positioning (inc. kite features) and margins made by the various groups in the "chain". In fact the cost of the Helix could easily be cheaper if it was made in enough volume compared to the others in the range.

$50 for a bladder! RRP maybe but manu cost <$3

RM,

All the prices I was giving were Retail. Isn't that what your all comparing! The retail difference is $250. and yes bladders are $50 retail (approx). at the actual factory obviously the cost would be less, but you can't look at that price and expect it to stay the same at retail! All kites have the same markups, and it is carried through from initial production, to the supplier, to the importer/distributor to the retailer. and it's all in the same proportion to how much the kites cost. The comparisons you make do not work!

JB

Interesting review Justin about flying the kite in Bad Conditions.

I also got to fly the kite in ****ty conditions winds gusting from 10 to 22 knots , I am not going to put a review in but what I can say that it did behave itself better than any other kite out there and never fell out of the sky.Anyway Im not a fan of bridled kites and am waiting on the alliance to be released.

As for relaunch if you cant relaunch the kite you need to go and get lessons again.

I didn't even go out in the water with it. It took me and an experienced kite surfer (5 years) a few minutes to even get the thing to properly fly in the air. And as for lessons, I think anyone with half a brain can relaunch a bow kite, for me, they aren’t necessary. I don't think that they would be very beneficial. Has anyone heard of the 'Seagull affect', it's a special traight of the Helix. But really, when you think about it, a kites performance is just an oppion, not a fact... I'm interested to see which of Naish's pro team switch to the Helix.

whichever ones are told to

Is the seagull effect the tendency it has to dive for chips the kids throw out onto the sand.?

I have had my 12mt helix out a couple of times. The first attempt was in 10-12 knts I was a little dissappionted but it still flew well, second go was in gusty 14-22 knts heaps of waves/chop and it was fantastic had so much grunt once you got going (I'm 90kg 138 board), on transitions it just rips you around and had no problems relaunching.

Overall I found the kite to be very good.

quote:

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but North proved itself last year to be better than any other kite for canopy stability (IMO) and I believe REBEL 08 is better than lasts years REBEL. The REBEL has amazing performance, and there is always going to be North customers that love the feel of North kites over everything else (and they do have their own special feel), there is no need to worry about REBEL sales as the kite rocks!

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You bet its better even than last years JB, Rocket Ride, it's the juice

Apparently the Helix comes standard out-of-the-bag with 20m lines.
That tells me the final prototype probably turned slow so it needed to be sexed-up with some short strings for production quality.
I'm testing a 7m next good session.

Or possibly the kites were so efficient and had such great bottom end that they didn't see the need for longer ones! Every knows kiting is more fun on shorter lines, it's just you can't get away with it on some kites in light winds.

Hi,

I have been testing the Helix 7m in the past days (and this forum is very Helix active ). The kite i used the most last year is the Rebel 7m with a 20m line bar and i really, really love the Rebel 7m. I ride Norths since Rhino1 and had almost every model since then, rode many, many kites and owned more kites than i should have.
I ride in a very rocky, gusty, wavy spot - Guincho in Portugal, europe. I am into wave riding, big air, kiteloops.

Here is my feedback:
- Helix is more stable than Rebel
- Unlike the other Naish SLEs i tried, Helix is really reactive to bar input and fast (that is why ALL naish users will love it)
- Up to 40++ knots the 7m Helix depowers and behaves very, very well (windsurfers on 2.8 - 3.6 sails)
- When redirecting the kite on the waves, it seems to self-stabilize. You don't need to have so much attention on the bar in such high winds
- Although the helix seems "bigger" in the air, Helix has the same top end as Rebel 7m (both on 20m lines)
- Rebel turns tighter than the Helix
- Rebel depowers faster than the Helix on 1:1, the same on 2:1
- Helix is more sane depowering in the middle of the powerzone when downlooping in the waves in highwind.

Stability is THE feature i like the most in the Helix and it is really important for the conditions where i ride.

The only drawback i found was the bridles and pulleys that i hate, mainly because the spot where i ride, tangles have a very high price - most probably, a new kite. I must admit that 2:1 is nice to have for hyper gusty winds.

Has anyone tested the 5m? It is the first time i feel like having a 5m.
Has anyone tried the different settings in the back line pigtail at the kite?

See you!

I also had the opportunity to ride a Helix 12m in Mauritius, for three days. Thanks very much to my mate Garth at Tamarin Surf. Do go and see this man if you are ever over there.
I class my level as intermediate, love jumping high, and just getting into more advanced tricks. I ride a 12m 07 shockwave normally, and absolutely love that kite, massive lift on jumps, and fast turning speed. The Helix I rode was missing the stopper ball, so I had to hold bar pressure all the time, and the wind was on the lighter side, 15-18kts. I was riding it in the 2:1 config. For these reasons, I think that it felt like it had less lift and power than the 12m shockwave. It did have super light bar pressure and turn speed, but at the same time, was not as twitchy as the shockwave. What I mean is, while doing tricks, it sat where you left it, not darting off. I did a long downwind run, and found the depower and downwind handling good, it jus sat in the air and drifted along with me. Water relaunching is definately easier when windy enough.
I did have one little mishap, one of the front lines slipped off the knot, but think that it was due to the kite sitting on the beach for a while, and me not checking that the loops were tight before going out. Bit of a lesson learnt there, cause sea urchines suck big time!
It did not seem to display any bad tendancies, during the three days.
I still want to try one in higher wind conditions. [/blue]

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave

Apparently the Helix comes standard out-of-the-bag with 20m lines.
That tells me the final prototype probably turned slow so it needed to be sexed-up with some short strings for production quality.
I'm testing a 7m next good session.

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Well thats a big assumption to make.
I have flown the 12M on 27M lines, it flies fine, and is not slower, or turning slower, line lengths do not change kite speed or turning speed dramatically.
Shorter lines APPPEAR to make a kite quicker because the wind window is smaller thats all.
Naish shipped the kite with 20M lines probably because they assume that most riders would be happy with the boosting on 20's and would like the apparent quickness the kite has with a smaller wind window, and it is better to have 20's in waves, for sure.
But if you want to fully exloit the jumping ability of the 12 and 9 M Helix try bunging some 5 or 7M extensions on the ends of the lines.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave

Apparently the Helix comes standard out-of-the-bag with 20m lines.
That tells me the final prototype probably turned slow so it needed to be sexed-up with some short strings for production quality.
I'm testing a 7m next good session.

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The Naish SLE's have always come out with 20m lines. Apparently what you tell yourself is not correct, you shouldn't listen to yourself in future.

Just remember that the helix has to be fed. A few chips will see it right. This will allow it to fly in no wind. However the kite will scwark alot around other helix kites and may even try to fight with them if food is about. If you see seagulls flying behind it don't worry these birds think the seagull god has arrived and have come to offer themselves as servents.

just joking, really it will eat anything not just chips.
Also you may need to be aware you can't hide under the kite and have a nanna nap as wind blows straight through this kite.
Oh and the bag is made a little bigger so when the kite is rolled up and packed you have just enough room to pack a lunch box for it. (this keeps the helix from scwarking wilst traveling). Oh and if you want to take it on holiday, you may find when trying to leave the country you could get done for bird smuggling.
What else? I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Has anyone tried to self-launch a Helix....... Had a bit of a problem trying to get the 9m flying by myself. Haven't flown bow or sle kites before so not familiar with launching techniques......
Had the kite looping with no real power in it about 2m off the ground till I pulled the safety. Tried in about 15-20knots....Plenty of wind I would think, just not sure how to get things going.....

Lambroast


it launches like any Bow kite, do a search for self launch Bows. Its pretty simple, but i do suggest that you have somone around the first time you do it.

if not make sure youre familar with youre saftey if things go wrong. always always remember the saftey!!!!!!!

Saw the helix in flight for the first time and was very impressed with the height and float time produced by this kite(the guy flying it was very very good, sponsored i think?)

He was doing some pretty awesome tricks and looked to be pushing the kite to its max.

Things of concern:

Complicated bar and pulley systems and connections to the bar look to easily get twisted/hooked/caught and cause some serious control problems.

The kite had a tendancy to fall out of the sky if flown to the edge of the window at speed and one occasion fell out of the sky and flipped over a couple of times, wrapping the lines etc.

There were 4 new kites out on the water all being flown by highly skilled(sponsored type) riders, all of who were pushing their kites to the limit and the helix was not fairing well. Bunch of spectators all noticed and commented on what looked to be very dangerous attributes.

One of the luffing and falling out the sky incidents caused the kite wing tip to catch on the line and do the spiral of death. scary. Now before i get slated, it wasn't just me that noticed this AND all the kites on the water were really getting pushed to the limit.

Thanks Merman,

I've had a bit of a look at launch videos. Looks pretty straightforward, however I'll give it a go when there are some bow kiters around at my local.

Safety is the same as whats on my boxer so I'm fairly well aquainted with it already !

Cheers

Simon

I had a fly of the 9mtr Helix the other day at Mullaloo(thanks SOS)in really gusty frontal onshore conditions 20-25knots gusting to 30 then dropping to approx 15 according to ocean reef graphs
I weigh approx 95kgs and was riding a 144 hammer.

The Good:
The thing that impressed me the most was the bar pressure, canopy stability and ease of flying in the gusty conditions and how well it went upwind. I had no problem getting out through the surf with almost direct onshore breeze and was able to ride a few (mushy)waves and get back out with relative ease.
I ride 10 and 14mtr Flow SLE's usually and have been on the 14 with 27mtr lines a lot lately due to a lack of wind, so it took me a little while to get used to the responsiveness of the 9mtr on 20mtr lines and with very little bar pressure but I was loving it by the time I came in.

The Bad:
The cluttered bar, as mentioned in a previous post there is a lot of straps, toggle handles etc above the bar to get tangled compared to the airush setup that I am used to. I didn't get to try the relaunch because the only time i dropped the kite I had just began to attempt a relaunch when the chicken loop came of my harness unintentionally (not sure why maybe my fault)and it released to safety and ended up a tangled mess.

Overall I was very impressed with the Helix but before I rush out and buy one I want to demo a few other kites, if they are better than the Helix they will be really good. Also want to see/fly the Cult.

You could always upgrade the bar to Smart loop, there is no simpler bar than that!

JB

Yes I have heard there is a smart loop option and was going to ask about it. Is it available yet and does it replace the depower straps etc.
The straps did work ok and probably wouldn't have been a problem if the loop didn't somehow decide to part company with my harness. I had the safety on the one front line setting and as I was in the shorebreak, complete with seaweed, the lines ended up all tangled.
I guess it's a case of getting used to the setup I have regularly flown Airush and have got used to their bar setup, which some people dislike.

Gave the Helix another go, probably around 15-20 knots on a 12m. The kite is real grunty as my initial review states but when you unhook you don't get pulled half as hard as you would expect which is good considering its soo grunty.

The bar is disgusting, toggle system looks stupid and is overly complicated, the bar i rode had the side leader lines doubled over so the gimmick pulleys wouldn't work. The doubled over leader line could easily catch your hand in it doing handlepasses. Also when i relaunched it wrapped around the end of the bar. I know this is easily changed, just think the whole having the pulleys there is a joke.

Bar grip suffers pretty much same complaint as most other companies, make it one peice for ****s sake its just going to peel off. Also not a massive fan of anything but a cylindrical bar.

Ok past the bar, kite flies ok. Doesn't rocket upwind but generates a lot of its own power once your planing and riding fast. Coming off a bow I found that the sheet out range in relative to depower is not nearly as good, more C kite like. So when you screw a trick up the suicide will work you as much as a C kite.

Saw some big jumps on it, didn't try any was more focusing on how it rode unhooked.

Overall most people on the beach that tried it didn't think it was all that great or disliked it. My honest opinion is that the bar is crap, kite flies fine does what you need it to do but is not something that will live up to the hype generated. People will like the kite but it's not something that makes you WOW and want to rush out and buy it because it is soo much better.

quote:

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Originally posted by JB

You could always upgrade the bar to Smart loop, there is no simpler bar than that!

JB

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This might be a dumb question....
but why is it called a 'smart' loop ?

The helix seems to lack power in the turns and on the downstroke.
Maybe it needs 25m strings instead of the 20's.

Like any kite on the market, some kites are going to appeal to different people in different ways. Majority of people find the Helix very powerful, high jumping, and incredibably smooth and stable. I personally think that the Sigma and GEO-TECH have unlocked an amazing level of improvements. At 95 + kgs I definately find that they have a great bottom end. You could always add 5m extensions if you felt more comfortable on 25m lines. The bar definately cleans up with the Smart Loop, I guess you could say that it looks quite smart! It replaces the adjuster strap and keeps all the excess line out of the bars reach. Definately worth adding to your set up. It is available in the retro fit kit, so you could also add it to other bars if you wanted (as long as the hole is big enough).

Regards,

JB