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dachopper said..
Oh yes.... and I think I hit a sea critter.. doing about 18 kts and bang I go completely flying off the front, body drag to get the board back and on the beach 3 big scratches half way back on the underside of the rear stab... and that's it.

Lashed out bought a 14m Aluula Roam for those light wind KiteSurf arvos. Am a 105kgs though.
Will try this arvo at my local hopefully 10-16kt n/Easter range on either 5'5" Fish or 150cm Nomad wave.
Hopefully have some feedback.

Just saw the rrp for DLAB juice 13..... brings a tear to my eye.... $4000 aud without bar lines or pump.

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dachopper said..
Just saw the rrp for DLAB juice 13..... brings a tear to my eye.... $4000 aud without bar lines or pump.

Looks like Aluula is getting picked up by other manufacturers. Ocean Rodeo pricing is looking like a bargain. The wind range of these kites is the big surprise.

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shred said..

dachopper said..
Just saw the rrp for DLAB juice 13..... brings a tear to my eye.... $4000 aud without bar lines or pump.

Looks like Aluula is getting picked up by other manufacturers. Ocean Rodeo pricing is looking like a bargain. The wind range of these kites is the big surprise.

I still haven't quite tested what the range is Vs a "normal 12m kite" for twintip riding. For foiling they destroy the bottom end and handling of everything else I've ridden, but for twintip I'm not 100% certain. My gut feel is the bottom end might be slightly lower or the same as say a 12 mono... while the handling at this speed is superior for the allula.

So hard to make a direct comparison, If I was riding a fridge door instead of my 140 the other day when people were cruizing around on 15 / 17 meters.... I probably would have been fine, but it's hard to tell... I was just slightly underpowered on one of the tacks in those conditions on a 140.

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Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
Oh yes.... and I think I hit a sea critter.. doing about 18 kts and bang I go completely flying off the front, body drag to get the board back and on the beach 3 big scratches half way back on the underside of the rear stab... and that's it.

Lashed out bought a 14m Aluula Roam for those light wind KiteSurf arvos. Am a 105kgs though.
Will try this arvo at my local hopefully 10-16kt n/Easter range on either 5'5" Fish or 150cm Nomad wave.
Hopefully have some feedback.

Not the feedback I wanted but found the top end of the 12m Aluula Roam on my Nomad Wave TTip.
25-30kts fully depowered.Forgot my 10m but needed an 8 or 9m.Blame Willy weather for downgrading report but was very wrong.Canopy stayed firm mostly until depower down the wave.But really impressed how well it handled being overpowered.
The frame of these OR Aluula kites are amazingly stable and solid but light and turn quick in the larger sizes.
still love the 8-9m in that wind.

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Leighbreeze said..

Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
Oh yes.... and I think I hit a sea critter.. doing about 18 kts and bang I go completely flying off the front, body drag to get the board back and on the beach 3 big scratches half way back on the underside of the rear stab... and that's it.

Lashed out bought a 14m Aluula Roam for those light wind KiteSurf arvos. Am a 105kgs though.
Will try this arvo at my local hopefully 10-16kt n/Easter range on either 5'5" Fish or 150cm Nomad wave.
Hopefully have some feedback.

Not the feedback I wanted but found the top end of the 12m Aluula Roam on my Nomad Wave TTip.
25-30kts fully depowered.Forgot my 10m but needed an 8 or 9m.Blame Willy weather for downgrading report but was very wrong.Canopy stayed firm mostly until depower down the wave.But really impressed how well it handled being overpowered.
The frame of these OR Aluula kites are amazingly stable and solid but light and turn quick in the larger sizes.
still love the 8-9m in that wind.

That is quite a top end for a 12 meter !

I had a fly of a year old 14.5 meter ocean rodeo allula flight today, and noted some big interesting differences to the roam.

It flew much more like a conventional higher aspect ratio c kite, that is much ..much slower turning. Power delivery is more constant than the 12 roam, and flying through the window the roam was significantly faster and lighter to turn than the 14.5 flight.

Regarding the turning, I was able to effortlessly loop my 12 with 27 meter lines and 39cm tiny bar, compared to the 22 meter lines and wide bar on the 14.5, the roam was about 2 or 3 times more responsive in the stated configurations even with tiny bar and long lines.

Also worth noting the wind was super , super light, like around the 4-6 kt mark. Getting up in these conditions was a challenge , definitely foil only, and once up, both upwind and downwind was limited on the 12, and visibly less so for the other super big kites ( 18 meter sonic for example ).

The other thing I noticed was the allula yellow colouring had started rubbing off the leading edge ( or maybe flaking off is a better description ) , leaving a white cloth looking material. The guy has been riding it all the time for over a year in all conditions, and aside from the cosmetic looks the yellow missing didn't seem to cause a problem. Again I dont know if that is a feature of allula, or a feature of what ocean rodeo asked for in the paint factory... or maybe early batches... or the hot weather exposure.... time will tell.

Another light session yesterday, but slightly stronger than before, maybe 8 - 10 kts, mostly 17 and 15 meter kites everywhere,

What can I say about the Allula roam, the comments about it being underpowered on the low end I think are unjustified.
The smallest kite out was a lady riding a 12 meter with a large board... we are talking around 160cm front door.

I got up and riding on the 140, albeit going slightly downwind on my board. Fairly confident if I was riding the ladies board I would have had no problems.... or with the 140 I think to be Fully powered I would need 16m+,

I think it's fair to say the following as a wrap up.

The bottom end of this kite is low or as low as you'll get for a 12 meter.
The foiling bottom end is lower than the other light weight 12 meters ( single strutt ).
The relaunch is considerably lower than all other non allula LEI's
The top depower and top end feels as good as you'll get with other 12 meters, and is considerably better than single strutt light weight kites.
The manoeuvrability of this kite in light wind, and for a 12 meter, is like most 9 meters, even with a small bar, and even in light wind and 27 meter lines I can almost pivot kiteloop the kite. ( It doesn't pivot loop though, it just turn very tight and is very fast across the window ).
For travelling, this thing packs up small and is probably one of the lightest 12 meters on the market under 2.4 kg.
the looping is easy and the drift is also good for wave/surfing or charging towards the kite.


Cons-
Because of the low drag, high speed fast turning nature, it's not that suitable for the average joe to be trying Big Lofty jumps, because that is not what you get. It's a bit like being attached to a deflating balloon that wants to go everywhere, and if you don't direct / steer it then you don't get much lift. The Dlab Juice looks to be the opposite of this, more conventional and slower turning, more lofty and with more float if you want a more conventional super light wind kite. I think the drawback for that design is going to be a lower top end, but remains to be seen.

As I said one of the other allula kites had the yellow paint delaminate on the leading edge allula tube after a year of heavy use.....will this happen to all of them - no idea, It didn't appear to affect the kite other than cosmetics for now, and I guess maybe the ability of the leading edge to absorb water... maybe. On the plus side his kite is now even lighter :)

Another ride in very light conditions today, 41 degrees and 50% humidity.... not much power in the wind. Myself, another on an 18 meter sonic who was going much better than me in the lulls and for directions and an 17 meter Airrush ultra on a big front foil, about 20% bigger than mine. I was surprised I could get up at all. When it was around 9kts I could start to crank upwind, but in the 6 kts lulls, it was really in those conditions the limit. The extra square meters of the kites really come into play. Everything except massive 1 strutt or foil kites would have been falling out the sky ( hence only 3 guys riding )

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IanR said..
While I like the idea of bladder less does anyone have any idea of how burst resistant the fabric is and if it is punctured or bursts how would you go about fixing it

send it to Adam from the Kite Loft lol

I can confirm there are no "bladderless", they all have bladders, and are lighter weight than the normal bladders. Maybe why the Duotone alula kites are so much heavier thatn OR is because duotone are using heavier bladders?

For perspective the 17 meter OR flight, weighs less than the 13 meter duotone dlab.

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dachopper said..
I can confirm there are no "bladderless", they all have bladders, and are lighter weight than the normal bladders. Maybe why the Duotone alula kites are so much heavier thatn OR is because duotone are using heavier bladders?

For perspective the 17 meter OR flight, weighs less than the 13 meter duotone dlab.

Not the reason - duotone have an overload of scuff pads, heavier dacron / doubled areas, not sure on the DLAB but the SLS still has battens in the TE.
Also not sure if they reduced the LE / Strut diameters from the regular Juice, which sheds some weight also.

Duotone are also using lighter weight bladders.

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dachopper said..
As I said one of the other allula kites had the yellow paint delaminate on the leading edge allula tube after a year of heavy use.....will this happen to all of them - no idea, It didn't appear to affect the kite other than cosmetics for now, and I guess maybe the ability of the leading edge to absorb water... maybe. On the plus side his kite is now even lighter :)

Thanks Dachopper, loads of good information from your experience. The material is very enticing, but as you say time will tell. It seems to me they wouldn't be adding weight to a very high performance feather weight material unless necessary. Just hope it's not UV protection.

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COL said..

dachopper said..
As I said one of the other allula kites had the yellow paint delaminate on the leading edge allula tube after a year of heavy use.....will this happen to all of them - no idea, It didn't appear to affect the kite other than cosmetics for now, and I guess maybe the ability of the leading edge to absorb water... maybe. On the plus side his kite is now even lighter :)

Thanks Dachopper, loads of good information from your experience. The material is very enticing, but as you say time will tell. It seems to me they wouldn't be adding weight to a very high performance feather weight material unless necessary. Just hope it's not UV protection.

Adding scuff pads, battens and Dacron areas to a kite increases UV protection?

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IanR said..

dachopper said.. I'm still baffled how a kite that weighs 50% less, could possibly produce less power than one the same size and heavier ...Confused?

I'm a little surprised that you are thinking that mass and power have a relationship.
A light kite will fly in less wind, but that doesn't mean it will generate more power. Particularly if they are someone who only flys with a sheet and go technique, in the hands of someone who knows how to generate power by flying it hard they may be able to compensate.

I think other things like cord and aerofoil have more to do with power
Also most wave kites are not known for their bottom end grunt
Now a Aluula Razor would get me interested

Weight in the kite during flying stroke definitely produces more power...I have flown OR in standard construction and Alulla and the standard has more power. The Alulla drifts/lofts longer and has a little more wind range and lighter bar pressure. Having said this the Alulla can get a bit confused sometimes which way its flying and stalls I think mainly because the leading edge is so light it doesnt lead the kite foward quite as much as a heavier leading edge would. They may over come this with canopy design perhaps.

In regards to the leading edge it does have a bladder albeit allot thinner than a normal kite due to the strength properties of Alulla...having said this I have seen 5 of these bladders myself fail and get a hole. ( i believe its something to do with fitment or rubbing on the first generations.
Got allot of mates riding them they love them, they tend to ride 1M up in size to get the power and they are some of WAs best riders for sure. (before you blast me with opinion and theory just remember I have flown the OR kites back to back with other kites 6-7 times both in standard and Alulla construction in varied 12kn-35kn conditions)

I am aware of a 12m roam, and 14.5m flite that have had bladders blow. Both were inflated using the same electric pump.

Is this because the electric pump inflates the kite rapidly and the bladder does not settle gently into its correct position? (Pinches and pops)

Is the electric pump faulty? (Needs calibrating and cleaning)

Could these bladder failures have avoided by carefully laying the kite out flat and inflating slowly with a hand pump?

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simon78 said..
I am aware of a 12m roam, and 14.5m flite that have had bladders blow.

Could this be due to OR minimising the sizing of the bladders, to the point that they're only just long enough? I suspect this is the problem with my 10m Flite which has blown out the ends of all its struts. bladder length matches strut length with little allowance for having to inflate to a 3-D shape. (All bladders were correctly installed & hand pump used.)

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AndreC said..

IanR said..

dachopper said.. I'm still baffled how a kite that weighs 50% less, could possibly produce less power than one the same size and heavier ...Confused?

I'm a little surprised that you are thinking that mass and power have a relationship.
A light kite will fly in less wind, but that doesn't mean it will generate more power. Particularly if they are someone who only flys with a sheet and go technique, in the hands of someone who knows how to generate power by flying it hard they may be able to compensate.

I think other things like cord and aerofoil have more to do with power
Also most wave kites are not known for their bottom end grunt
Now a Aluula Razor would get me interested

Weight in the kite during flying stroke definitely produces more power...I have flown OR in standard construction and Alulla and the standard has more power. The Alulla drifts/lofts longer and has a little more wind range and lighter bar pressure. Having said this the Alulla can get a bit confused sometimes which way its flying and stalls I think mainly because the leading edge is so light it doesnt lead the kite foward quite as much as a heavier leading edge would. They may over come this with canopy design perhaps.

In regards to the leading edge it does have a bladder albeit allot thinner than a normal kite due to the strength properties of Alulla...having said this I have seen 5 of these bladders myself fail and get a hole. ( i believe its something to do with fitment or rubbing on the first generations.
Got allot of mates riding them they love them, they tend to ride 1M up in size to get the power and they are some of WAs best riders for sure. (before you blast me with opinion and theory just remember I have flown the OR kites back to back with other kites 6-7 times both in standard and Alulla construction in varied 12kn-35kn conditions)

I think we are talking chalk and cheese here....

I've only got experience with it light wind foiling, and up to about 12 kts , and I highly doubt the standard weight kite would fly in those lighter conditions - let alone make more power as it falls from the sky.

Intermediate / strong winds, I think you will probably find that kite distortion and twist plays the main role and not the weight in why the standard kite acts differently to the aluula.... and that is probably why ( in my opinion ) the benefits of aluula in intermediate / strong conditions are limited.

In lighter winds though, or for ease of travel .... it's a no brainer from me!

Hello Seabreeze members!
Chiming in from the design office of Ocean Rodeo.

Bladders....
The majority of bladder failures we see are related to embolisms, ( a small pinched or folded section of bladder that inflates incorrectly or is torn under stress....caught in a valve etc. ) Strut ends, and valve connections are the most sensitive areas.

Bladder twists...this can happen at the factory, no one is 100% perfect, however we do inflate each and every kite/wing for 24 hrs before packing.

Twisted bladders can also develop by inflating your kite while it is still folded. Kites should be unrolled before inflation...this really helps keep your bladders nested.

On wings...we see customers holding the wing LE/flag out handle while they are using the pump...so the wing is moving up and down with each pump stroke, shaking the strut bladder down.
We have now added two support lines to the strut bladder front end to help hold it in place, however the wing should be pumped laying flat.

Best to lay your wing flat and clip the pump leash to leash line loop on the wing LE.

For the last 8 years we have been using US made medical grade PU film (with UV inhibitors).
We are also continually refining our bladder designs, air frame build and inflation system to improve our kites and wings in both performance and reliability.
We do monitor the forums for any issues and take them seriously,..so thanks for the open discussion,...we are listening....

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EastCC said..

COL said..

dachopper said..
As I said one of the other allula kites had the yellow paint delaminate on the leading edge allula tube after a year of heavy use.....will this happen to all of them - no idea, It didn't appear to affect the kite other than cosmetics for now, and I guess maybe the ability of the leading edge to absorb water... maybe. On the plus side his kite is now even lighter :)

Thanks Dachopper, loads of good information from your experience. The material is very enticing, but as you say time will tell. It seems to me they wouldn't be adding weight to a very high performance feather weight material unless necessary. Just hope it's not UV protection.

Adding scuff pads, battens and Dacron areas to a kite increases UV protection?

Dachopper mentioned the yellow coating coming off the allula. That coating must have a good reason to be there as it's a very expensive product in order to achieve light weight.Read the thread more carefully before commenting

The primary reason for the outer facing gold layer is indeed to bolster UV resistance and protect the ALUULA core. The central core weave is the back bone and main technology of the composite providing the very light weight to strength ratio...as with any kite, its worth looking after and trying to avoid unnecessary exposure to UV if at all possible. (for example leaving a kite or wing pumped up all day in direct sun day after day,...)

Been using Aluula roams 6,8,10,12 m in waves and bay waves in Melbourne and waves East / West coast we have a lot of different conditions here with wind direction/ density ,Cross / Cross off / on shore I have started to dial in the different characteristics of this kite and enjoying them a lot and hopefully can use them this year at Indo
Note I am not sponsored rider All of my kites have had no issues with bladder, aluula material Note I do unfold before pumping up and fold up end of kite also try to where possible rig / de rig on grass
Re sizing I kite smaller or same as others most of the time And bigger also But I did the same with Reos which I have kited for years all models except V6 There are too many variables for kite size Re density of wind / board volume too riders weight on and on
One big thing I love being able to go out at Gunnamatta surf beach in Cross off with gusts up to 25 and lulls to 5 knot where I am able fly my kite and stay on the board where others are on the beach or swimming in
In conditions I have kited I do not find the kite to stall or being confused But I do fly these kites lower than I would with the Reo's Need to demo / demo your self too see if it's the kite for you

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icurumba said..

The primary reason for the outer facing gold layer is indeed to bolster UV resistance and protect the ALUULA core. The central core weave is the back bone and main technology of the composite providing the very light weight to strength ratio...as with any kite, its worth looking after and trying to avoid unnecessary exposure to UV if at all possible. (for example leaving a kite or wing pumped up all day in direct sun day after day,...)

I need to add in there some context of use here..... that kite was heavily used in the UAE, at the beach where air temperature is in the high 30's, low 40's,, high humidity and you cannot walk on the sand without burning your feet, and 6 - 8 kts of wind. The kite - was sitting leading edge down on that boiling hot sand daily for 12+ months. The places where it wore off, appeared to be where it would have either had contact with the ground, or possibly did some dragging on the sand. It did not seem to effect the performance of the kite and was only noticed on closer inspection by myself, but obviously I have never seen this before as normal construction kites do not have the ability to loose their colour in that manner from my experience.

My 12 meter Roam on the other hand, has not been used in the extremes of summer to that extent, and still looks brand new.

The cheapest 2021 kite on seabreeze buy and sell is a 7m roam.

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simon78 said..
The cheapest 2021 kite on seabreeze buy and sell is a 7m roam.

AND LOL

Its hard to believe this... but just done a back to back vmg2 15 meter in light winds( I know - its a race kite with race lines ) , 15 meter lines vs 24 meter lines allula roam. Could not get out of the water with the vmg2. No problems with the roam though. Absolute beast of a kite in light winds !

Did you use the lightwind race kite water start technique? You don't loop race kites to start in light winds like you might an LEI, you backstall them deep into the power zone and use the power surge as it flies forwards again to waterstart.

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weebitbreezy said..
Did you use the lightwind race kite water start technique? You don't loop race kites to start in light winds like you might an LEI, you backstall them deep into the power zone and use the power surge as it flies forwards again to waterstart.

Deep into the powerzone with 12 meter lines is not much of a surge forwards in 7 or 8 kts unfortunately.
The other Ram kiters who did manage to get out were on 23 meters, and they could just pull the bar in and go.

If I had put 24 meter lines on it, maybe I need to in the lighter winds?

Something for me to try next time, I also adjusted the bridle lengths, and set the wingtip camber adjusters to stability since both wingtips collapse all the time when kiting in this lighter wind.

Next I'll try moving the front attachment points rearward on the wingtips, outboard of the camber adjuster if that hasn't had the desired effect.



You mean like this right?

The difference was also, once i was up on the 15, I couldn't accelerate either, was trying to point upwind, but going so slow about to fall off the foil, and the kite was just not making enough power sitting there to accelerate me. With the Roam, I could back loop it, forward loop it, and manoeuvre likt crazy to get up to a higher speed and then point higher. Each loop with the roam, was twice the pull I was getting from the 15 surging forward.

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dachopper said..

weebitbreezy said..
Did you use the lightwind race kite water start technique? You don't loop race kites to start in light winds like you might an LEI, you backstall them deep into the power zone and use the power surge as it flies forwards again to waterstart.

Deep into the powerzone with 12 meter lines is not much of a surge forwards in 7 or 8 kts unfortunately.
The other Ram kiters who did manage to get out were on 23 meters, and they could just pull the bar in and go.

If I had put 24 meter lines on it, maybe I need to in the lighter winds?


You mean like this right?

Yep. Just like that.

Ultimately big race foils are a different use case compared to a surf kite like the roam. Interesting to hear that it was easy to get up as the roam by reputation has less grunt for starting out than a moderate weight kite like the Neo SLS. That said, if I had the spare cash, I'd be going for some aluula goodness