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IanR said..

dachopper said.. I'm still baffled how a kite that weighs 50% less, could possibly produce less power than one the same size and heavier ...Confused?

I'm a little surprised that you are thinking that mass and power have a relationship.
A light kite will fly in less wind, but that doesn't mean it will generate more power. Particularly if they are someone who only flys with a sheet and go technique, in the hands of someone who knows how to generate power by flying it hard they may be able to compensate.

I think other things like cord and aerofoil have more to do with power
Also most wave kites are not known for their bottom end grunt
Now a Aluula Razor would get me interested

A lighter kite has less inertia meaning it can accelerate faster, and needs less lift to hold itself up, and to accelerate itself.....meaning.... more power for you, instead of power to hold itself up.... we are talking about the light wind scenario here where most "normal" weight kites are unuseable unless in gargantuan sizes

I've felt the difference a light weight single strut kites give in light wind, and it is considerably more power than the same sized kite weighing a lot more.......

More power is more power.

The correlation is clear in all aspects of Motorsport,. weight is power. The lighter it is, the faster it accelerates, top speed, etc.

Unless its a light boxcar/ clearly when efficiency will be hindered by design..... maybe like the ocean rodeo

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dachopper said..

IanR said..

dachopper said.. I'm still baffled how a kite that weighs 50% less, could possibly produce less power than one the same size and heavier ...Confused?

I'm a little surprised that you are thinking that mass and power have a relationship.
A light kite will fly in less wind, but that doesn't mean it will generate more power. Particularly if they are someone who only flys with a sheet and go technique, in the hands of someone who knows how to generate power by flying it hard they may be able to compensate.

I think other things like cord and aerofoil have more to do with power
Also most wave kites are not known for their bottom end grunt
Now a Aluula Razor would get me interested

A lighter kite has less inertia meaning it can accelerate faster, and needs less lift to hold itself up, and to accelerate itself.....meaning.... more power for you, instead of power to hold itself up.... we are talking about the light wind scenario here where most "normal" weight kites are unuseable unless in gargantuan sizes

I've felt the difference a light weight single strut kites give in light wind, and it is considerably more power than the same sized kite weighing a lot more.......

More power is more power.

You're right, power usually reserved in just keeping the kite in the air is transferred to the rider with a lighter weight design.
However the standard Roam by design is not a 'grunty' feeling kite like the Crave, Razor etc. (although it has power and I'm usually sized the same or smaller than everyone else)
It is a quick kite and has light bar pressure, smooth power delivery and a smooth pull in loops. Pulling tight pivotal loops it has very small amount of pull. It is a great wave kite.
It is also a pretty efficient kite in light winds but you can't just pull the bar in and go at the bottom end, and the near 100% depower at the bar will feel different for people who are used to a grunty kite.


The Aluula Roam has the same genetic feel, with lighter bar pressure, this builds to a medium feel at the bar when it's at the top of it's wind range.
It doesn't feel grunty as the power is so smooth. It's a very efficient kite in light winds and, like all kites, at the bottom of it's wind range it needs to be flown. The kite is so quick through the air it's easy to generate some power in both strokes and once planing it will find it's sweet spot and settle in the window.
The most impressive aspect for me so far - the wind range 'sweet spot' for this kite is huge, it flies confidentally and perfectly balanced with no luffing, stalling etc in under 10kn and 25+.


I haven't flown the Boxer so I can't compare sorry, and I'm still yet to see the Aluula Flite so I can't say if an Aluula kite with a 'grunty' feel, or more static pull will have such a large usable wind range like the Roam.

Ozone made the 2013 Edge 19 ultralight for light wind Racing.
It had the same weight as the Edge 14
3.7 kgs that is 194 grams pr m2
And that is with 5 struts.
The same as The Roam 10m with 3 struts.
Mine Edge 19 is still alive and I am always the last on a twin tip that has to leave the water if the wind is dropping, I am 114kgs.

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Guttorm said..
Ozone made the 2013 Edge 19 ultralight for light wind Racing.
It had the same weight as the Edge 14
3.7 kgs that is 194 grams pr m2
And that is with 5 struts.
The same as The Roam 10m with 3 struts.
Mine Edge 19 is still alive and I am always the last on a twin tip that has to leave the water if the wind is dropping, I am 114kgs.

I've got A North Dyno 18 meter under the stairs, that I've repaired a gazillion times.... and it's a little like that..... the no wind monster

However - I did fly my mates 15 Meter Mono....... and it pulled like an absolute freaight train.

Frothing in anticipation.
Can you hurry the suppliers mate.

It is unfortunately a stretch to Imogene how a small company would have the resources to develop state of the art engineered composite polymer? That is the realm of well funded multinationals with a long history in the materials science field and will be looking at all potential end markets. So for sure this is a nice marketing story, most likely Aluula has some distribution arrangement with DSM or other multinational manufacturer which has done the heavy lifting and has the resources and assets to manufacture new materials at scale. Also can't find any patents under the Aluula name either which is curious. Most likely Aluula are a distributor in this scenario.

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SawtyCR said..
It is unfortunately a stretch to Imogene how a small company would have the resources to develop state of the art engineered composite polymer? That is the realm of well funded multinationals with a long history in the materials science field and will be looking at all potential end markets. So for sure this is a nice marketing story, most likely Aluula has some distribution arrangement with DSM or other multinational manufacturer which has done the heavy lifting and has the resources and assets to manufacture new materials at scale. Also can't find any patents under the Aluula name either which is curious. Most likely Aluula are a distributor in this scenario.

Ocean rodeo is a separate business to Aluula Composites, but the owners are good friends and there is some cross investment I've been told, they are also based in the same area in Canada.




AND

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SawtyCR said..
It is unfortunately a stretch to Imogene how a small company would have the resources to develop state of the art engineered composite polymer? That is the realm of well funded multinationals with a long history in the materials science field and will be looking at all potential end markets. So for sure this is a nice marketing story, most likely Aluula has some distribution arrangement with DSM or other multinational manufacturer which has done the heavy lifting and has the resources and assets to manufacture new materials at scale. Also can't find any patents under the Aluula name either which is curious. Most likely Aluula are a distributor in this scenario.

Why is it hard to imagine that a smaller company can innovate, design and create great things?
Ocean Rodeo have had a number of innovations over the years.

FYI - Patent filed under Aluula Composites Inc. in June 2018.

At times it's the larger companies that buy out the smaller guys who have the ideas and claim them as their own, or team up with 'multinational manufacturers with a long history in the materials science field' as they have the turnover to secure an exclusively 'named' product.

Either way there is a constant flow of new ideas which is great.

It is a bit narrow minded however to think because you're a small company you can't be creative & innovative.

Can't speak more highly of the New oceanrodeo Aluula kites .My wife & I have been using them for a few months now.Lightweight,super responsive in the larger sizes, smaller sizes well try slowing them down if you want.The Aluula material seems super tuff.
Kite structure is rigid strong but super agile.
Easy fittings to inflate with standard hose nozzle.
No fuss setting up to fly.
Just may need a few hand fulls of sand on the down wind side leading edge to secure on the beach only because they are really lightweight.
We have Aluula Roams -waves & Aluula Flites for light wind.

I would like to see no strut Cloud or UFO copies made in full aluula with an absolute focus on weight. As the material manufacturing scales up prices should come down as well. Make me this kite OR and I might be tempted back from foil kites..

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KBGhost said..
I would like to see no strut Cloud or UFO copies made in full aluula with an absolute focus on weight. As the material manufacturing scales up prices should come down as well. Make me this kite OR and I might be tempted back from foil kites..

That would be classic if OR A made a strut less kite for kitefoiling.Hard to launch and land being so lightweight.UFOs & Clouds are challenging enough.
For foiling FlysurferPeakP4's are on their own.

I can't find any patent filed by. PLs share.

Seems the idea was developed by some smarts at Victoria University organic chemistry lab and it is those guys who rightfully are credited with the patent (not aluula who are probably doing marketing). Google Diazirine crosslinking adhesive and voila.

They have published a paper on how they developed a flexible adhesive to covalently bond with polyester fabric.

This Diazirine being a new molecule it can't be manufactured in Canada until it is listed on the country inventory which means a minimum of 2 years wait for tox and ecotox testing with costs close to 1M.

the workaround for this would be to manufacture offshore, somewhere like India and then import the finished fabric (country listing only applies to chemicals, not the finished fabric)

It sure looks to be a great product with great potential. Can't wait to see how it goes.

I ride the best gear I can find and I ride OR Aluula kites. Until someone else comes up with something lighter, stronger and stiffer in the inflatable world they are the best 100%

I can't wait to see it applied to wings Personally (which they are I assume), especially for the bigger sizes. Weight is definitely the limiting factor in building a strong enough frame that can also be flagged out easily on waves / downwind; especially in marginal conditions.

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eppo said..
I can't wait to see it applied to wings Personally (which they are I assume), especially for the bigger sizes. Weight is definitely the limiting factor in building a strong enough frame that can also be flagged out easily on waves / downwind; especially in marginal conditions.

I'll organise you one to demo.

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EastCC said..

eppo said..
I can't wait to see it applied to wings Personally (which they are I assume), especially for the bigger sizes. Weight is definitely the limiting factor in building a strong enough frame that can also be flagged out easily on waves / downwind; especially in marginal conditions.

I'll organise you one to demo.

Cool. Or better still my son. He will put it through its paces better than me lol.

I just bit the bullet and ordered one. Most expensive kite I've ever purchased by far. Hope it performs!

No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

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dachopper said..
No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

One of my most favourite size Aluula Roams.
Suits my larger kgs when friends are using 9-10m.
Fast turning,awesome drift.Gun light to moderate wave kite.

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Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

One of my most favourite size Aluula Roams.
Suits my larger kgs when friends are using 9-10m.
Fast turning,awesome drift.Gun light to moderate wave kite.

How low can you go in waves with a 12 and surfboard...and your kilo weight?

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dafish said..

Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

One of my most favourite size Aluula Roams.
Suits my larger kgs when friends are using 9-10m.
Fast turning,awesome drift.Gun light to moderate wave kite.

How low can you go in waves with a 12 and surfboard...and your kilo weight?

Hey mate,105kgs,5'5" fish,10-12kts min,depending on current.They turn quicker than most kites in that size.

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Leighbreeze said..

dafish said..

Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

One of my most favourite size Aluula Roams.
Suits my larger kgs when friends are using 9-10m.
Fast turning,awesome drift.Gun light to moderate wave kite.

How low can you go in waves with a 12 and surfboard...and your kilo weight?

Hey mate,105kgs,5'5" fish,10-12kts min,depending on current.They turn quicker than most kites in that size.

That is pretty impressive! I am 82ish (getting heavier now that winter is settling in ;( ) I might be able to get away with a 10, but a 12 would sure see me out in 10 knots. Thanks for the info!

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dafish said..

Leighbreeze said..

dafish said..

Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

One of my most favourite size Aluula Roams.
Suits my larger kgs when friends are using 9-10m.
Fast turning,awesome drift.Gun light to moderate wave kite.

How low can you go in waves with a 12 and surfboard...and your kilo weight?

Hey mate,105kgs,5'5" fish,10-12kts min,depending on current.They turn quicker than most kites in that size.

That is pretty impressive! I am 82ish (getting heavier now that winter is settling in ;( ) I might be able to get away with a 10, but a 12 would sure see me out in 10 knots. Thanks for the info!

If it was 10-12 kts With no stronger,I would be looking for a 14.5m Flight or 8-12kts 17m flight.on a Nomad wave or nomad light wind board not a kitesurboard.
That's my thing.Lightwinds right direction I would rather kitefoil Peak4's & Armie kitefoil kit.

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Leighbreeze said..

dafish said..

Leighbreeze said..

dafish said..

Leighbreeze said..

dachopper said..
No review yet, but I can confirm the kite delivered in its bag (basically a compression ripstop bag ,)with instruction manual etc still in there... 2.6 kg... 2.3kg kite only. Kite was packed up about as small as a 7 or 8 meter

Mono 12 meter kite only.. just weighed at 3.2 kg




Bring on the weekend!

One of my most favourite size Aluula Roams.
Suits my larger kgs when friends are using 9-10m.
Fast turning,awesome drift.Gun light to moderate wave kite.

How low can you go in waves with a 12 and surfboard...and your kilo weight?

Hey mate,105kgs,5'5" fish,10-12kts min,depending on current.They turn quicker than most kites in that size.

That is pretty impressive! I am 82ish (getting heavier now that winter is settling in ;( ) I might be able to get away with a 10, but a 12 would sure see me out in 10 knots. Thanks for the info!

If it was 10-12 kts With no stronger,I would be looking for a 14.5m Flight or 8-12kts 17m flight.on a Nomad wave or nomad light wind board not a kitesurboard.
That's my thing.Lightwinds right direction I would rather kitefoil Peak4's & Armie kitefoil kit.

Ya, my lightwind setup for foiling is a Peak 4 5 mt and amy Army setup when it's light is the hs1250. There are times when the waves are good and it's just a tad light for my 10 Reo and would really like to get into the waves on a surfboard so I am always on the hunt to find a way to stay powered up.

Yeah mate best drift in light to moderate wind on kite surfboard or nomad wave 150x43 & 12m Aluula Roam.
Last Saturday South to South west 8-17 kts mainly 10-15 kts 1m-2m south swell rights patchy wind but fun waves drifting down the line.
Love that Kite.

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dachopper said..

Bring on the weekend!

How did you go?

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Leighbreeze said..
Yeah mate best drift in light to moderate wind on kite surfboard or nomad wave 150x43 & 12m Aluula Roam.
Last Saturday South to South west 8-17 kts mainly 10-15 kts 1m-2m south swell rights patchy wind but fun waves drifting down the line.
Love that Kite.

Well well, same story at the other end of the planet here in eastern Canada; Roam 12&14m nomad wave tt in 3 sizes with my light wind board being 153x43. Have not used the kites in anything but big fresh water chop but they are sweet handling. Fast kites and incisive carving boards, a good match. By the way compared the Roam 14 to the flite 14.5 and by far preferred the Roam.

Hey Pana on the other side of the planet.
Awesome match up Roams with either kite surfboard or lightweightnomad Carbon wave.
Will research if I can get a 14m A Roam.
The 14.5m Flite is an awesome light wind kite but doesn't drift as good as the A Roam 12m