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toppleover said..
Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

... yep, I agree.

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ActionSportsWA said..
Hey Munga,

My experience is that very few people know the Starboard tack rule. I think this was confused by IKO who gave right of way to riders leaving the beach when first entering the water. They also had a rule saying rider on the wave (in surf scenario) had right of way over riders going out through the surf, this was in direct contention to older windsurfing rules where rider in the surf on a wave gave way to riders going out through the waves.

The final rule in ALL nautical situations is to avoid collisions regardless of right of way rules. Yelling Starboard only has any real creedence when sailing or yachting racing.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depends on how you look at it, Kitesurfing is a freedom sport which attracts people from all walks of life and as such, you can't really expect everyone to know the right of way rules as there is no industry standard or licensing scheme in place where this could be taught and tested.

Kite on!

DM

Sorry, have to disagree, After all, a kite is a flying sail, or a sailing wing, if you like.
The starboard rule (wind coming over your right shoulder) has existed from the earliest days.
I was taught at spotty-faced dinghy school it's actually a result of Viking-era longships having their steering oars on that side at the stern.
However, this made them less agile on that tack if another vessel was approaching them on port (wind over left shoulder). The approaching vessel can more easily bear away from the wind because its steering oar has more 'bite", being on the ship's leeward side and likely to be deeper in the water because the hull is heeling over to that side.
So the rule is apparently more about a starboard tacker having less ability to avoid a collision than those on port, and not starboard being dominant.
If you think about it , a port tacker, even a kiter, can bear away onto an easy shy-reach, while a starboard tacker would have to bear up and potentially stall. If they beared away from the wind they would cross the port tacker's path.
As another aside, this is why port is called "port", because to protect the steering board the ships tied up with it facing the water and not the wharf. Something to check next time you are watching 'Vikings' or any Dark or Middle ages drama, perhaps.
However, common courtesy and common sense should prevail when kiting while others are on waves - that's the reason they are there, so show respect , and pay homage to Hughey too.
Kiters leaving the beach are obviously going to need space with the shore dump, iffy winds - so stay clear. It's just common sense.
That said, it's best just to get out the back, don't do your tricks and turns right on the shore, and keep and eye upwind for downwinders on the waves, and turn before you reach their lines. Simple.
Starboard rules!!!!

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SaveTheWhales said..
Munga - we all know who th kooks are and sometimes it's our selves having a brain fart..

The best advice you could give your son - is practise his reflex dive the kite low to the waterline in case he has to or send the kite back behind him.

Teach him to submit "before" any cross over points.
Park his butt in the water at 12 or dive his kite just off the water.

I do it all the time because some specials kiters can't think for themselves - problem Solved.

A lot of people can't actually see the cross over point in their mind.
I know a few people who are also blind as bats without their glasses..

Have fun :)

Thanks Whales... that's actually a good point, some people are simply not good at visualization, and even more reason to simply take evasive action early if in doubt.

My son is like us all when we started, if anyone comes remotely near him he just changes direction. Did his first raley the other day, super stoked

The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

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bombjack said..
The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

Bomb good point... did you watch the video earlier in this conversation? The guy makes a very valid point of common sense right of ways. In particular Foil Boarders to give way to all, Kiteboarders to give way the Windsurfers, essentially the more power and upwind ability you have, you give way. Interesting!

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Munga said..

bombjack said..
The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

Bomb good point... did you watch the video earlier in this conversation? The guy makes a very valid point of common sense right of ways. In particular Foil Boarders to give way to all, Kiteboarders to give way the Windsurfers, essentially the more power and upwind ability you have, you give way. Interesting!

He even mentions getting into rotations instead of everyone trying to cram into the best spot. Good advice!

I think it is important to clarify that right of way rules apply when there is risk of collision.

If a rider on the port tack will pass easily upwind of a rider on starboard tack then bearing off downwind to give way to the rider on starboard tack will mean crossing that riders path thus increasing the risk of collision

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bombjack said..
The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

Just on that,

appreciate that everyone is trying not to hit anyone. Had a near enough incident with a foil kiter the other day. Was on starboard heading crosswind when he appeared out from behind my sail (on port tack, on a much higher upwind angle) and went straight into a tack, close enough in front of me to cause concern. I had to make a quick decision on which way to go, upwind of him, or below him. i chose to go below him, expecting him to make it out of his tack, and jump straight onto a higher angle. He didn't make his tack, but ditched, looking back at me at the last minute and stayed where he was. If it happened slightly differently it couldve been a nasty collision.

My point is, always check over your shoulder before a direction change. It may not be another kiter, or someone fully aware of what you are about to do behind you. Point 2 (perhaps more relevant to what happened) if you are aware that someone else is near, think twice about where you plan to change direction. I wouldve been in full view of this guy, and he chose almost right in front of me for a tack. If he'd gone another 20-30m upwind of me, it wouldve been a non event.

Happy tea bagging

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cauncy said..
Other kiters would be nice

Man that looks great, Ill come visit and bring load of cold beer!

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Subsonic said..

bombjack said..
The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

Just on that,

appreciate that everyone is trying not to hit anyone. Had a near enough incident with a foil kiter the other day. Was on starboard heading crosswind when he appeared out from behind my sail (on port tack, on a much higher upwind angle) and went straight into a tack, close enough in front of me to cause concern. I had to make a quick decision on which way to go, upwind of him, or below him. i chose to go below him, expecting him to make it out of his tack, and jump straight onto a higher angle. He didn't make his tack, but ditched, looking back at me at the last minute and stayed where he was. If it happened slightly differently it couldve been a nasty collision.

My point is, always check over your shoulder before a direction change. It may not be another kiter, or someone fully aware of what you are about to do behind you. Point 2 (perhaps more relevant to what happened) if you are aware that someone else is near, think twice about where you plan to change direction. I wouldve been in full view of this guy, and he chose almost right in front of me for a tack. If he'd gone another 20-30m upwind of me, it wouldve been a non event.

Happy tea bagging

Cheers Sub and awesome quick thinking. Talk gents... lots of convos on the beach will keep everyone on the same page.

Damn we got some wind over here in WA! Green Arrows for the next 7 days, not much swell tho :(

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Youngbreezy said..
I think it is important to clarify that right of way rules apply when there is risk of collision.

If a rider on the port tack will pass easily upwind of a rider on starboard tack then bearing off downwind to give way to the rider on starboard tack will mean crossing that riders path thus increasing the risk of collision

You may have the wrong end of the stick here. The rule only really applies when they are on a collision course or their paths will pinch the starboard vessel/rider too far upwind that they will stall. If they are not going to collide, then the port vessel/rider has to use judgment to ensure a safe crossing of the other's path - bearing in mind that means an absolute minimum 25m-plus leeway to accommodate the lines.
However, given most people in Perth can't adhere to the keep left rule on the road, use a roundabout, drive a proper manuaal and change a tyre ... we're totally donald ducked.

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bombjack said..
The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

"Weird angles". You mean going upwind and anywhere you like like a proper sailing vessel, rather than just surface slappin' back and forth in the same area? ....

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alverstone said..

bombjack said..
The kite high/low rule works pretty well when all kiters are on twin tips and surfboards since the direction is mostly out and back so collisions will be mostly of the head-on type (still need everyone to understand the rules and signal intentions early). Foil boards on the other hand complicate matters a lot since they can go all sorts of weird angles to the wind. When you introduce these into the mix then the sailing right of way rules are more important. Fat chance of all kiters knowing them though...

"Weird angles". You mean going upwind and anywhere you like like a proper sailing vessel, rather than just surface slappin' back and forth in the same area? ....

Correct, mowing the lawn at more acute angles.

Gees all getting a bit complex here, further downwind port or starboard bear away kite low, upwind rider port or starboard kite high and thumbs up as you pass by, when kiters on waves stay clear however you can bear away and get downwind then head back out or turn around and head other way, gees its not that hard even in reasonably busy locations, common sense goes a long way

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alverstone said..
bearing in mind that means an absolute minimum 25m-plus leeway to accommodate the lines.

I hope I read this wrong, it sounds like you want 25m between kiters.

You're dream'n.

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Jono77 said..

alverstone said..
bearing in mind that means an absolute minimum 25m-plus leeway to accommodate the lines.

I hope I read this wrong, it sounds like you want 25m between kiters.

You're dream'n.

Jonno experienced Kiters can pass and hi5 on the way through (still very risky!).

I agree.. learners or guys relatively new to kiting are best to give 25m plus as you are playing with the kaos theory.

Really enjoying the season, freaking windy every day ATM :)... need more swell tho :(