Guys my 15yo son has just started kiting and among all the safety tips I have given him I have also made it very clear what the right of way rules are.

Yesterday I had a guy on a Port Tack that did not alter his course, despite me yelling Starboard. We came very close to a collision.

That all said are we all clear that Starboard tack has right of way? If you are not sure please talk to your local crew and make sure you are aware of the rules.

Also very important that the rider on the Port tack lowers his kite and the Starboard tack rider keeps their kite high.

Sorry if I am spelling out the bleeding obvious however this guy looked experienced (by the way he was riding). I can only guess he maybe a Euro as I have never seen him at my local break.

This is the link to Kiteboarding WA Right of way rules.

kiteboardingwa.org.au/right-of-way-rules/

Kite... to kite another day... :)

Hey Munga,

My experience is that very few people know the Starboard tack rule. I think this was confused by IKO who gave right of way to riders leaving the beach when first entering the water. They also had a rule saying rider on the wave (in surf scenario) had right of way over riders going out through the surf, this was in direct contention to older windsurfing rules where rider in the surf on a wave gave way to riders going out through the waves.

The final rule in ALL nautical situations is to avoid collisions regardless of right of way rules. Yelling Starboard only has any real creedence when sailing or yachting racing.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depends on how you look at it, Kitesurfing is a freedom sport which attracts people from all walks of life and as such, you can't really expect everyone to know the right of way rules as there is no industry standard or licensing scheme in place where this could be taught and tested.

Kite on!

DM

I'm not sure what your idea of close is. Some guys will hi-five on the way past. The other kiter may have overestimated your skills.

I get what you are saying, I guess we all have to sing off the same hymn sheet. This is why Kiteboarding WA has made it clear on their website.

It concerns me a little that you are muddying the water referring to Wave sailing on a wind surfer, lets be clear, we are referring to kiting.

I would like to think that you make it well known to everyone that comes through your school that Starboard has right of way and that Port tack bears away (as per Kiteboarding WA).

Been Windsurfing for 20+ years and Kiting now for 11 years, I rarely call Starboard however I use it when needed. Quite honestly kiting is sailing, it has credence IMO.

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psychojoe said..
I'm not sure what your idea of close is. Some guys will hi-five on the way past. The other kiter may have overestimated your skills.

Yeh and we do to, however this guy did not change his course until I yelled Starboard, he didn't lower his kite, our kites narrowly missed each other. I had my kite as high as I could get it as we passed.

Where were you kiting for context?

i reckon worse is someone following you all the way to the shoreline, and they are just down wind, kite low and lines angled almost straight in front of your future track, leaving no ability to be able to turn around and head back out. Got me beat where they think a person is going to go from there?
i usually just ride up onto the beach, give a glare and then shrug my shoulders in disbelief...

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Munga said..

psychojoe said..
I'm not sure what your idea of close is. Some guys will hi-five on the way past. The other kiter may have overestimated your skills.

Yeh and we do to, however this guy did not change his course until I yelled Starboard, he didn't lower his kite, our kites narrowly missed each other. I had my kite as high as I could get it as we passed.

Sounds like the guy was a dic khead. He probably kites between the flags too.

Here's a great video done by Blake from MAC Kiteboarding:



They way I understand it, Starboard rule only comes into effect if you're on a collision course, otherwise they upwind kiter simply raises his kite and the downwind kiter lowers his (which this guy obviously didn't do)

Would've be a Euro for sure, their kite spots are very crowded so they kite really close to each other. He probably was wondering what you were worrying about.

Because it's so crowded the starboard rule system dosnt work, as a starboard tack sailor could just kite right through the middle of the crowd and clean everybody up so they use a the kiter with most exclusive and expensive equipment has right of way system.

In Vietnam now it's crazy seen plenty of kite collisions...can't wait to get back to the sunny coast where the beach is deserted,

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Gateman said..
Here's a great video done by Blake from MAC Kiteboarding:

They way I understand it, Starboard rule only comes into effect if you're on a collision course, otherwise they upwind kiter simply raises his kite and the downwind kiter lowers his (which this guy obviously didn't do)

Thanks for sharing Gateman, I have shared it with my son also. Starboard is a universal sailing rule world wide, he explains it very well. Interesting what he is saying about foiling, I wonder if our foiling community in Australia see this the same way?

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Munga said..

Gateman said..
Here's a great video done by Blake from MAC Kiteboarding:

They way I understand it, Starboard rule only comes into effect if you're on a collision course, otherwise they upwind kiter simply raises his kite and the downwind kiter lowers his (which this guy obviously didn't do)

Thanks for sharing Gateman, I have shared it with my son also. Starboard is a universal sailing rule world wide, he explains it very well. Interesting what he is saying about foiling, I wonder if our foiling community in Australia see this the same way?

No worries Munga, I sailed my whole life and worked at sea for 10 years. There is a rule that states something like: "If a collision can not be avoided by the actions of one vessel alone then all vessels involved HAVE to take evasive action"
I believe there has only been one case in Maritime History where 100% Blame was portioned to a single vessel, every other law case has apportioned a percentage of blame to each vessel.

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Gateman said..

Munga said..

Gateman said..
Here's a great video done by Blake from MAC Kiteboarding:

They way I understand it, Starboard rule only comes into effect if you're on a collision course, otherwise they upwind kiter simply raises his kite and the downwind kiter lowers his (which this guy obviously didn't do)

Thanks for sharing Gateman, I have shared it with my son also. Starboard is a universal sailing rule world wide, he explains it very well. Interesting what he is saying about foiling, I wonder if our foiling community in Australia see this the same way?

No worries Munga, I sailed my whole life and worked at sea for 10 years. There is a rule that states something like: "If a collision can not be avoided by the actions of one vessel alone then all vessels involved HAVE to take evasive action"
I believe there has only been one case in Maritime History where 100% Blame was portioned to a single vessel, every other law case has apportioned a percentage of blame to each vessel.

I guess that sums it all up really, if in doubt just stop

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Gateman said..

Munga said..

Gateman said..
Here's a great video done by Blake from MAC Kiteboarding:

They way I understand it, Starboard rule only comes into effect if you're on a collision course, otherwise they upwind kiter simply raises his kite and the downwind kiter lowers his (which this guy obviously didn't do)

Thanks for sharing Gateman, I have shared it with my son also. Starboard is a universal sailing rule world wide, he explains it very well. Interesting what he is saying about foiling, I wonder if our foiling community in Australia see this the same way?

No worries Munga, I sailed my whole life and worked at sea for 10 years. There is a rule that states something like: "If a collision can not be avoided by the actions of one vessel alone then all vessels involved HAVE to take evasive action"
I believe there has only been one case in Maritime History where 100% Blame was portioned to a single vessel, every other law case has apportioned a percentage of blame to each vessel.

I guess that sums it all up really, if in doubt just stop

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Munga said..

psychojoe said..
I'm not sure what your idea of close is. Some guys will hi-five on the way past. The other kiter may have overestimated your skills.

Yeh and we do to, however this guy did not change his course until I yelled Starboard, he didn't lower his kite, our kites narrowly missed each other. I had my kite as high as I could get it as we passed.

At the pond today. Kites narrowly missed each other at least 100 times the 15 minutes I watched... chill out, get on with it.

Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

Other kiters would be nice

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toppleover said..
Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

Couldn't agree more

Common sense and courtesy usually works better than a bunch of conflicting rules on which there is no agreement. Besides, most kiters wouldn't have a clue what port tack and starboard tack are. I have never heard anyone yell "starboard" outside of sailing or windsurfing races.

Starboard tack keeping their kite up high is a retarded rule IMHO (at least outside of racing). What if the starboard rider is actually downwind? The port tack rider would have to bear off a lot down wind in order to avoid a collision and in doing so would first turn through the path of the starboard tack rider. Or the port tack rider would have to turn more upwind and fly their kite at 12. In 19 years of kiting I haven't heard of that rule. Surely that rule would actually promote collisions.

When two kiters approach each other, nearly always one is slightly more upwind or at least heading more upwind and the other is slightly more downwind or on a more downwind heading. If the upwind kiter makes a slight but obvious course change more upwind and at the same time puts the kite up high and the downwind kiter turns slightly more downwind and puts the kite down low then there is clear communication of intentions between the two kiters. The earlier those intentions are signalled, the better. Happy days. It's not rocket science.

Different rules in the break zone at wave spots (but again none are universally agreed on hence courtesy still best) or in freestyle (generally rider leaving the trick zone makes room for rider entering the trick zone).

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Munga said..
That all said are we all clear that Starboard tack has right of way?

No

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eppo said..

Munga said..

psychojoe said..
I'm not sure what your idea of close is. Some guys will hi-five on the way past. The other kiter may have overestimated your skills.

Yeh and we do to, however this guy did not change his course until I yelled Starboard, he didn't lower his kite, our kites narrowly missed each other. I had my kite as high as I could get it as we passed.

At the pond today. Kites narrowly missed each other at least 100 times the 15 minutes I watched... chill out, get on with it.

What is the story there? If you hang out where the lessons are often held, on the outside of the pond, there are lots of beginners there, yet obviously proficient kiters turn up and start doing jumps and tricks there. Its funny, if it wasn't for the fact I am learning, I wouldn't be hanging around someone like me in case their kite took mine out. Do people realise that this area is full of learners looking at their kite, crashing all the time, and generally oblivious to others?

I have to say, when out there, I will happily stop where I am and make others that know what they are doing to work out how to go around me, as my kite control is not good enough to judge coming within metres of another kite.

Then you go into the pond itself and there seem to be a few times a day where two or three kites cross lines and end up on the beach. And they do runs of only a hundred metres or so. I think the outside of the pond is much better.

Rules only work if everyone knows and abides. This won't happen, so I suggest tell your son to make his direction intensions clear early and avoid collision irrespective of rules. If you try to take your right of way, collisions will happen.

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oldbones said..
Rules only work if everyone knows and abides. This won't happen, so I suggest tell your son to make his direction intensions clear early and avoid collision irrespective of rules. If you try to take your right of way, collisions will happen.

cheers Bones, and that is the advice I have given my son. He knows the rules now and I have told him that there are some kiters are not aware of the rules, in that case either just turn around or just stop in case of an emergency.

IMO we have to have rules and it is great to hear everyone's take. I encourage everyone to discuss openly on the beach etc, hence the reason I raised this discussion. kiteboardingwa.org.au/right-of-way-rules/

Anyhoo... loving that my son is finally kiting. I was beginning to wonder if any of my 3 kids were going to share my passion for the water.

Kite safe today... to kite another day...!

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holgs said..

toppleover said..
Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

Couldn't agree more

Common sense and courtesy usually works better than a bunch of conflicting rules on which there is no agreement. Besides, most kiters wouldn't have a clue what port tack and starboard tack are. I have never heard anyone yell "starboard" outside of sailing or windsurfing races.

Starboard tack keeping their kite up high is a retarded rule IMHO (at least outside of racing). What if the starboard rider is actually downwind? The port tack rider would have to bear off a lot down wind in order to avoid a collision and in doing so would first turn through the path of the starboard tack rider. Or the port tack rider would have to turn more upwind and fly their kite at 12. In 19 years of kiting I haven't heard of that rule. Surely that rule would actually promote collisions.

When two kiters approach each other, nearly always one is slightly more upwind or at least heading more upwind and the other is slightly more downwind or on a more downwind heading. If the upwind kiter makes a slight but obvious course change more upwind and at the same time puts the kite up high and the downwind kiter turns slightly more downwind and puts the kite down low then there is clear communication of intentions between the two kiters. The earlier those intentions are signalled, the better. Happy days. It's not rocket science.

Different rules in the break zone at wave spots (but again none are universally agreed on hence courtesy still best) or in freestyle (generally rider leaving the trick zone makes room for rider entering the trick zone).

Holgs you maybe need to read through this;

kiteboardingwa.org.au/right-of-way-rules/

thankfully for WA the Starboard tack ROW works in a wave situation.
Dont matter if ur surfing, windsurfing or kiting.
General point break rules since the beginning of time that I abide by:
dont go out thru the break if sets are on and people are riding waves. go around then tack up.
if going out give way of people on waves, they have absolute priority to you no matter.
go out the back watching swells rolling in. wait ur turn, go out back, get a swell and come in on it.
If you are upwind and you fall off your swell/wave or dont like urs and end up behind wave, this does not entitle you to the wave behind (windsurfers are notorious for doing this and it drives me crazy). if you can't hold onto ur wave, suck it up and go back out the back. Don't ruin it for the person behind that has lined up the next set.
When coming in either on a swell or chasing one and going upwind as hard as you can (you are on starboard tack yes heading right) you have right of way. person going out, PORT, should get out of ur way as movie says be it down or up but dont get in way or slow starboard rider down.
no snaking, tacking in close upwind taking others waves they have gone out back for.
IF there is a swell with no-one on it i believe you may sneak in line up and take if you are not cutting anyones grass.

Now in beach breaks this does not always work as you are not going out back so much and waves are everywhere.
work on the starboard rule or give way to those coming in.
If at beachies and someone is on a wave close to shore, DO NOT water start into them and cut them off. Move ur kite away from water towards dunes out of way. Then go. general respect.

That;s what i was taught as a young whipper waterman from the 80's.
Not sure these days people take time to learn rules just get frothed up and go out. Kites allow people to skill up quick and ride waves. Be respectful and watch out for everyone. AND have fun.

oh and totally agree with power thing from movie. Kiters should give way to all surfers and swimmers. And DW canoes n sups i guess out back. got to watch them as when on a roller they pick up speed and go bloody fast!

Now flat water, sheesh been a long time since i rode flat water but i guess got to watch what others are doing and follow? Starboard rule is a good one to start with but see how it all lines up.

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toppleover said..
Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

It is just amazing how many people can't even follow that basic rule much less the more complex ones. Hope they never decide to take up competitive sailing... Just glad we have have less crowed spots with considerate kiters and polies.

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CAUTION said..
thankfully for WA the Starboard tack ROW works in a wave situation.
Dont matter if ur surfing, windsurfing or kiting.
General point break rules since the beginning of time that I abide by:
dont go out thru the break if sets are on and people are riding waves. go around then tack up.
if going out give way of people on waves, they have absolute priority to you no matter.
go out the back watching swells rolling in. wait ur turn, go out back, get a swell and come in on it.
If you are upwind and you fall off your swell/wave or dont like urs and end up behind wave, this does not entitle you to the wave behind (windsurfers are notorious for doing this and it drives me crazy). if you can't hold onto ur wave, suck it up and go back out the back. Don't ruin it for the person behind that has lined up the next set.
When coming in either on a swell or chasing one and going upwind as hard as you can (you are on starboard tack yes heading right) you have right of way. person going out, PORT, should get out of ur way as movie says be it down or up but dont get in way or slow starboard rider down.
no snaking, tacking in close upwind taking others waves they have gone out back for.
IF there is a swell with no-one on it i believe you may sneak in line up and take if you are not cutting anyones grass.

Now in beach breaks this does not always work as you are not going out back so much and waves are everywhere.
work on the starboard rule or give way to those coming in.
If at beachies and someone is on a wave close to shore, DO NOT water start into them and cut them off. Move ur kite away from water towards dunes out of way. Then go. general respect.

That;s what i was taught as a young whipper waterman from the 80's.
Not sure these days people take time to learn rules just get frothed up and go out. Kites allow people to skill up quick and ride waves. Be respectful and watch out for everyone. AND have fun.

oh and totally agree with power thing from movie. Kiters should give way to all surfers and swimmers. And DW canoes n sups i guess out back. got to watch them as when on a roller they pick up speed and go bloody fast!

Now flat water, sheesh been a long time since i rode flat water but i guess got to watch what others are doing and follow? Starboard rule is a good one to start with but see how it all lines up.

Caution.. Very well spoken mate, cheers for sharing your POV, agree with everything here.

Once again it is important to have these discussions here and on the beach, spread the word guys, clear the air and get on the same page.

When your kids get into the sport it becomes even more important I guess.

Kite safe today, to kite another day...

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holgs said..

toppleover said..
Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

Couldn't agree more

Common sense and courtesy usually works better than a bunch of conflicting rules on which there is no agreement. Besides, most kiters wouldn't have a clue what port tack and starboard tack are. I have never heard anyone yell "starboard" outside of sailing or windsurfing races.

Starboard tack keeping their kite up high is a retarded rule IMHO (at least outside of racing). What if the starboard rider is actually downwind? The port tack rider would have to bear off a lot down wind in order to avoid a collision and in doing so would first turn through the path of the starboard tack rider. Or the port tack rider would have to turn more upwind and fly their kite at 12. In 19 years of kiting I haven't heard of that rule. Surely that rule would actually promote collisions.

When two kiters approach each other, nearly always one is slightly more upwind or at least heading more upwind and the other is slightly more downwind or on a more downwind heading. If the upwind kiter makes a slight but obvious course change more upwind and at the same time puts the kite up high and the downwind kiter turns slightly more downwind and puts the kite down low then there is clear communication of intentions between the two kiters. The earlier those intentions are signalled, the better. Happy days. It's not rocket science.

Different rules in the break zone at wave spots (but again none are universally agreed on hence courtesy still best) or in freestyle (generally rider leaving the trick zone makes room for rider entering the trick zone).

THIS.

Pet hate are riders going for the upwind battle and then backing off or not being able to maintaining their angle after they have got right of way.

DONT FIGHT FOR IT IF U CANT MAINTAIN IT.

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Munga said..
Guys my 15yo son has just started kiting and among all the safety tips I have given him I have also made it very clear what the right of way rules are.

Yesterday I had a guy on a Port Tack that did not alter his course, despite me yelling Starboard. We came very close to a collision.

That all said are we all clear that Starboard tack has right of way? If you are not sure please talk to your local crew and make sure you are aware of the rules.

Also very important that the rider on the Port tack lowers his kite and the Starboard tack rider keeps their kite high.

Sorry if I am spelling out the bleeding obvious however this guy looked experienced (by the way he was riding). I can only guess he maybe a Euro as I have never seen him at my local break.

This is the link to Kiteboarding WA Right of way rules.

kiteboardingwa.org.au/right-of-way-rules/

Kite... to kite another day... :)

Never followed Right of Way Rules Ever.

Upwind rider over down wind rider, then next priority is rider coming in over rider going out (mostly freestyle riding) which for most of WA is the Starboard tack rule

Carbine sometimes it is no fault of the rider, if there is a lull in the wind there is not much you can do.

As far as upwind/downwind, Starboard rule only comes in when you are on a collision course ie neither is either upwind or downwind.

You may have never come close to a collision, let me tell you it is not where you want to be. Disregard basic sailing rules and it is only a matter of time before you will have an accident.

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carbine said..

holgs said..

toppleover said..
Surely the most simplistic rule is upwind kite high - dwind / low. (Beguinner kiters will eventually learn this rule)

Is doesn't matter what the rule books say, just use common sense & play it as it comes - look after each other...enjoy the stoke.

Couldn't agree more

Common sense and courtesy usually works better than a bunch of conflicting rules on which there is no agreement. Besides, most kiters wouldn't have a clue what port tack and starboard tack are. I have never heard anyone yell "starboard" outside of sailing or windsurfing races.

Starboard tack keeping their kite up high is a retarded rule IMHO (at least outside of racing). What if the starboard rider is actually downwind? The port tack rider would have to bear off a lot down wind in order to avoid a collision and in doing so would first turn through the path of the starboard tack rider. Or the port tack rider would have to turn more upwind and fly their kite at 12. In 19 years of kiting I haven't heard of that rule. Surely that rule would actually promote collisions.

When two kiters approach each other, nearly always one is slightly more upwind or at least heading more upwind and the other is slightly more downwind or on a more downwind heading. If the upwind kiter makes a slight but obvious course change more upwind and at the same time puts the kite up high and the downwind kiter turns slightly more downwind and puts the kite down low then there is clear communication of intentions between the two kiters. The earlier those intentions are signalled, the better. Happy days. It's not rocket science.

Different rules in the break zone at wave spots (but again none are universally agreed on hence courtesy still best) or in freestyle (generally rider leaving the trick zone makes room for rider entering the trick zone).

THIS.

Pet hate are riders going for the upwind battle and then backing off or not being able to maintaining their angle after they have got right of way.

DONT FIGHT FOR IT IF U CANT MAINTAIN IT.

Munga said..
Guys my 15yo son has just started kiting and among all the safety tips I have given him I have also made it very clear what the right of way rules are.

Yesterday I had a guy on a Port Tack that did not alter his course, despite me yelling Starboard. We came very close to a collision.

That all said are we all clear that Starboard tack has right of way? If you are not sure please talk to your local crew and make sure you are aware of the rules.

Also very important that the rider on the Port tack lowers his kite and the Starboard tack rider keeps their kite high.

Sorry if I am spelling out the bleeding obvious however this guy looked experienced (by the way he was riding). I can only guess he maybe a Euro as I have never seen him at my local break.

This is the link to Kiteboarding WA Right of way rules.

kiteboardingwa.org.au/right-of-way-rules/

Kite... to kite another day... :)

Never followed Right of Way Rules Ever.

Upwind rider over down wind rider, then next priority is rider coming in over rider going out (mostly freestyle riding) which for most of WA is the Starboard tack rule

I am with you on this one but I will add that I am quite courteous and will happily lose ground for my fellow kiter.

Munga - we all know who th kooks are and sometimes it's our selves having a brain fart..

The best advice you could give your son - is practise his reflex dive the kite low to the waterline in case he has to or send the kite back behind him.

Teach him to submit "before" any cross over points.
Park his butt in the water at 12 or dive his kite just off the water.

I do it all the time because some specials kiters can't think for themselves - problem Solved.

A lot of people can't actually see the cross over point in their mind.
I know a few people who are also blind as bats without their glasses..

Have fun :)