I feel sorry for this guy as everyone is. the fact of the matter is this guy was out on a 12m kite. That is why this accident happend. And What were his mates doing sitting there watching him launch at 12m Kite in those conditions. I have nine years experience of Kiting I was out on my 10m from 1130 in the morning through to 6 o'clock in the afternoon and I was Neither underpowered or overpowered at any time of the day.
The problem is the beginners have only one kite and because they don't want to miss out they take the risk.
Eg last year I spoke to a guy that wanted to go out with his 11m in 25-30knts his words were this is the only kite I have.
This guy put up a 12m kite in those conditions that's the problem.
Ye i feel Sorry for this poor feller, but sorry I call it as I see it.

I

Spartan said..

I feel sorry for this guy as everyone is. the fact of the matter is this guy was out on a 12m kite. That is why this accident happend. And What were his mates doing sitting there watching him launch at 12m Kite in those conditions. I have nine years experience of Kiting I was out on my 10m from 1130 in the morning through to 6 o'clock in the afternoon and I was Neither underpowered or overpowered at any time of the day.
The problem is the beginners have only one kite and because they don't want to miss out they take the risk.
Eg last year I spoke to a guy that wanted to go out with his 11m in 25-30knts his words were this is the only kite I have.
This guy put up a 12m kite in those conditions that's the problem.
Ye i feel Sorry for this poor feller, but sorry I call it as I see it.

I'm exactly in this mindset! and witnessed the exact same scenario on the weekend.

With snow skiing/boarding you know to go the green and blue before black..
If you are learning to kite shouldn't you be the guy with the smallest kite out on the beach..?

if you dont have an appropriate kite for the day - well you sit and watch or you go get one.

HappyG said..

KSS, The Zuu, Kite Republic and KBV should all get onto the table and have a chat.

Will all due respect to those shops and organisations, I dare say - they don't give a f**k. The only one seen active in all of this is KSS and for obvious reasons. They should be applauded IMO

Loftywinds said..

HappyG said..

KSS, The Zuu, Kite Republic and KBV should all get onto the table and have a chat.

Will all due respect to those shops and organisations, I dare say - they don't give a f**k. The only one seen active in all of this is KSS and for obvious reasons. They should be applauded IMO

I've been in meetings with the shops and they will give way but without kiteboarder's to hold their ground, they will take whatever they can. They are businesses after all and that is their priority. It's one of the reasons my original post suggested that we include shops, KBV and kiters.

keiiz said..

Sports with the most serious injuries
% of injured reporting serious injury
Boxing 55%
Rock Climbing 43%
Rugby League 34%
Horse Riding 31%
Sailing 30%
Rugby Union 28%

This is just stupid - most of those injuries would be people who are experienced, pushing the limits, not beginners learning. You can learn to box with zero contact - how do you learn to kite with no wind?

Actually you will find that the most serious injuries occur in amateur sports - because people aren't physically capable (pros spend a lot of time at the gym) of taking the hit, and their opposite number may tackle with poor technique. I don't like those stats because they only look at the proportion of people with injuries who have a serious injury. It doesn't talk about the injury rate in terms of participation. Boxing should be left out because in essence the point of the sport is to try and cause your opponent serious injury. Rock Climbing, well you tend to hurt yourself badly, or you're OK. Also, reporting on anything less than a serious injury is going to be thin (probably won't take yourself to hospital or the doctor over it)

Also, what constitutes a serious injury? If you use Risk Assessment models a serious injury is something that results in a full day off from work. (LTI) This can range from a sprain to concussion.

This discussion about signage etc needs to happen because as I see it, we are having one Major (near death) to Catastrophic (near death or death with damage to infrastructure) incident at Altona every season, with plenty of other incidents of kites blowing into the powerlines, requiring the power company to be called in.

If we can't be proactive and provide some solutions to Council/Parks Victoria they may exclude us from Altona altogether. Imagine if a kid was cleaned up in the process. As it stands the residents might decide they've had enough.

I have seen bright orange banner signage (that is put in the sand at the ends of kite zones) set up on European beaches. It defines the area and warns the general public. Maybe we need to think about this sort of thing. The only issue is having someone prepared to put up and take these signs down at the start and the end of the day. It would work in St K where there are full time instructors.

Altona Kiting Accident

In light of recent incident, Kiteboarding Victoria wish to express our deepest sympathies to the Kiter and his family and those that provided assistance at the accident. As most of you are aware that the accident was serious. Also thanks to Ambulance Victoria and Alfred Hospital staff who have helped to assist our fellow kiteboarder.

Thank you to those who have contacted KBV to provide their eye witness account of the incident. As we now have a detailed and accurate understanding of how this accident occurred. As a volunteer based organisation KBV will continue to work with stakeholders over the coming period to address Kiteboarding and safety at Altona and other beaches throughout Victoria. This includes for example appropriate signage, maps and kiter and public education.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please make contact via our website or KBV facebook page.
Witnessing such an event can be traumatic, if you are still thinking about the incident or it has affected you in anyway way, we suggest that you discuss it with your family and or friends or there are free public service such as beyond blue or life line.

We once again thank you to those that provided assistance and support at the time.
I hope to have an update that I can share of the Kiters situation in the next few days.

keiiz said..

PenKite said..

So much talk, so many self proclaimed experts, so many opinions, so many eye witness's & not one thorough explanation of how this event unfolded.

These types of accidents don't "just happen"

I think the first few posts gave a pretty clear picture of what happened...

Launched, brought it up too fast, lofted, panicked, pulled bar in and that'd be it unfortunately..

Inexperienced people don't realise how unforgiving Altona can be till something goes wrong - Small beach then road / power lines..

They should really be launching from water especially at high tide.. there just isn't the buffer of sand that St Kilda has..

Also, not to put this on a kite school, but a part of me feels like there should be some sort of responsibility not to kit out fresh beginners with gear unless they commit to lessons... It's pretty obvious if someone with no kite experience walks into the shop... and while I agree everyone has to look out for themselves.. the amount of unconscious incompetence coming from a non-kiting background is staggering (we all start there)

With respect to Quinn and his family, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and wish a speedy recovery. Hope to see you on the water again.

Sorry Keiiz, but getting lofted into a wall & over onto a car, then over the power lines across the road into someones front yard, onto a car and into a garage door does not just happen by pulling the bar in and getting lofted.

IF and I say IF, the accident occurred with modern equipment, and no, 5 years old is not considered modern in my book, then after the initial impact or at least the second onto the car then the bar would have been let go, right? IF so then why did the rest of the incident unfold like it did? Was a line wrapped around one side of the bar or an arm hooked onto the bar pulling the kite into loops? There has to be more to the story than "pulling the bar in and getting lofted"

If the kite was old then there is nothing further and reinforces my own personal moral ground not to deal in old equipment. You guys who have been kiting since the dark ages may disagree, remember how ever you are used to having a short bar throw, when someone get's professional lessons these days they are, at very least taught on current equipment. If this person goes out and buys a kite for a few hundred bucks and expects the same or simply doesn't accept the advances that have been made then they're going to get a massive surprise and hopefully not hurt.

Just this past weekend an ex student rolled up to the beach with his mate and old kite he'd bought online, they asked me what I though and I'm here to tell you I'm a pretty straight shooter "This will pull like a train and will probably kick your arse!" The persons response "Only one way to find out" I expressed that I wouldn't use it and they need to be very careful. Of course they both got a massive scare, luckily in the water and came in to pack it up. Now what do you suppose I do? Wrestle the kite out of his hands, get into fisty cuffs or verbal argument with this guy? What would you do?

We have people come in every week with kites they have bought on line, even from this site, that are totally inappropriate, dangerous and dated. The client will generally say something like "I bought this kite, it's only been used a few times and the bar looks brand new" Yeah it does because every person that has flown it gets scared ****less or hurt and never uses it again, then sells it to some other poor unsuspecting victim.

i.e. the quote below on another thread where someone is wanting to swap a kite.

I have a 2001 Naish Boxer 12m C kite. Great for boosting! Fluro and yellow. Amazing depower! PM for more details.

What a joke! These kites should be cut up.

We will, do and will again refuse to teach anyone with equipment like this despite the risk of losing business and upsetting the client. We always try to give the very best advice and supply safe gear but we/shops/schools/KBV are not the parents of these adults and what they deicide to invest in and do after they leave us despite advice is out of our control.
Unless you the community want it pushed and made legislation that everyone be licence tested and serious restrictions put in place it is hard to police. Flags, signage and due diligence will help but it will not stop people buying gear and giving it a crack on there own or with there mates despite good advice.

Do you blame motor bike shops every time someone dies on a dirt bike riding it in a paddock? Of course not

Loftywinds said..

HappyG said..

KSS, The Zuu, Kite Republic and KBV should all get onto the table and have a chat.

Will all due respect to those shops and organisations, I dare say - they don't give a f**k. The only one seen active in all of this is KSS and for obvious reasons. They should be applauded IMO

Saffer said..

Loftywinds said..

HappyG said..

KSS, The Zuu, Kite Republic and KBV should all get onto the table and have a chat.

Will all due respect to those shops and organisations, I dare say - they don't give a f**k. The only one seen active in all of this is KSS and for obvious reasons. They should be applauded IMO

I've been in meetings with the shops and they will give way but without kiteboarder's to hold their ground, they will take whatever they can. They are businesses after all and that is their priority. It's one of the reasons my original post suggested that we include shops, KBV and kiters.

With all due respect Loftywinds & Saffer you should pull your heads in. My name is Trent Moon from Peninsula Kiteboarding and you can call me anytime on 0413835345 if you have a problem with anything we have done or you believe that we do not have our clients/students safety first and foremost at heart and we move any kites and take what we can regardless then I personally find that offensive.

Of course Steve is active in this, and he should be, it's happened on his door step for goodness sake.

Do not blame anyone, I have seen many people I know I'd call friends who have been seriously injured or killed parting in dangerous activities. Ultimately adults and responsible for their own actions & the advice they wish to follow or or not.

Sorry Keiiz, but getting lofted into a wall & over onto a car, then over the power lines across the road into someones front yard, onto a car and into a garage door does not just happen by pulling the bar in and getting lofted.

IF and I say IF, the accident occurred with modern equipment, and no, 5 years old is not considered modern in my book, then after the initial impact or at least the second onto the car then the bar would have been let go, right? IF so then why did the rest of the incident unfold like it did? Was a line wrapped around one side of the bar or an arm hooked onto the bar pulling the kite into loops? There has to be more to the story than "pulling the bar in and getting lofted"

Hi Trent - as Pete mentioned, was a new kite - 2012 Rebel. Yes, you are right, I was just giving a more simplified outline of what happened - not implying he just lofted straight up pulled the bar and somehow all of that happened. Perhaps a better sequence is lofted -> lost control of kite -> pulled bar in after which point I think we can all agree there was serious trouble - whether the bar got wrapped or perhaps he even managed to hold onto the bar with a death grip I'm not sure.

I also have no issue with your stance Trent - we've met and you seemed like a stand up guy.

Obviously you can't control what students do after they leave, nor am I asking for the whole sport to be regulated...

But in this particular case, the kite WAS sold by a kite school, to someone who had never touched a kite, given a 1 hour "complimentary" lesson and sent on their merry way with some mild warnings... you could say what they did after was their own choice, they are adults after all.. but come on, there's got to be some level of responsibility beyond that.. Can anyone here honestly say they had any level of competency after 1 hour of instruction? (assuming no prior kite experience)

it's sad to hear what has happened to this poor guy and it's tragic that even after this accident these things will continue.

being that this thread is about safety, you guys kiting at Victoria point in qld should take serious notes. that is an onshore only spot. there is a concrete wall along the length of the beach then trees/toilet block/cars etc.

I could never get my head around why people kite there. and what's worse people are giving lessons there. i've already had one friend taken to hospital in an ambulance after he was hit by an out of control kiter doing a self launch that went wrong due to a gust. we've had a couple of kiters now get dragged and kites end up in the trees.

seems also some of the crew that kite there can't land their gear by themselves or launch un assisted.

it really is another tragedy waiting to happen.

Not sure if its been said because I can't be bothered reading all the crap opinions of what happened or what he should have done by people who clearly have no idea , who is the guy and how is he going and does he need help ?

PenKite said..

Of course Steve is active in this, and he should be, it's happened on his door step for goodness sake.

Do not blame anyone, I have seen many people I know I'd call friends who have been seriously injured or killed parting in dangerous activities. Ultimately adults and responsible for their own actions & the advice they wish to follow or or not.

Trent, no one is saying "it's someone else's fault". No one is saying that Quinn should have done this or that or that we are blaming anyone. All I am saying is that when the last major accident happened to Nic, there was "silence". And all I am saying this time, is that KBV, you, me, the whole kiting community now make a stand to make sure it does not happen again. The point is - WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? I am not even in Vic, but this affects me because I lived in Altona and learnt to kite surf there myself. That place is sacred to me like Bells Beach is. It has to be protected and kiters's rights to kite there has to be protected.

Now having said that, I know Steve is active (he's always been active), I know Hobsons Bay council are pro-kiters (they do not want to close the beach unless absolutely necessary, although the dog lobby would love to) and I know KBV have now acted as per their post above and I am sure they've already got the ball rolling with awareness, education, etc.

So all good, this time? I hope so. Signs, and other kiters helping other kiters is really the solution IMO.

As I see it, I have a couple of options:

1. Wish Quinn and his family the best for his recovery.

2. Join the current 15,000 people who have already looked at this thread and remember why I bother to zip up my impact vest and clip on my helmet before each session. Also remind myself to take half a second longer to rig up before self-launching, no matter how good it looks on the water. Use this as an opportunity to improve my own safety habits.

3. Use the opportunity to complain about anyone I can think of who are 'at fault': the council for the sign that's too small, instructors for not teaching properly, shops for not selling things who people who want to buy them (seriously, are we going to overthrow capitalism for this?), forum posters for not posting enough crap on SB.

4. Start picking fights with people on the beach who know better than I do that a 12m 100% depower kite will be perfectly fine on a 25+ knot day.

You might be surprised to know that I'm going with 1&2.
Obviously, I've succumbed to temptation for the final part of 3.
Oh, and let it be recorded that I started wearing a helmet before Sunday.

I too am a work colleague and friend of Quinn. I'm afraid the reason there hasn't been a more recent update is because there hasn't been any good news. He remains in a coma, having sustained a severe head injury. I would join with my other colleague that posted in stating that Quinn is much admired and respected for his selfless nature. He is a guy who would give you the shirt off his back if you were in need. Humble, talented with an infectious chuckle. One of those rare individuals you count yourself lucky to meet and luckier to call a friend.

Those of us who know Quinn and have read this thread, really appreciate the support of the community and have taken strength from the outpouring of well wishes. We are currently in the process of raising funds to help pay for his treatment and support his family once they arrive. I will post further details once this has been organised but even your well-wishes have been of great help.

Qmate said...
I too am a work colleague and friend of Quinn. I'm afraid the reason there hasn't been a more recent update is because there hasn't been any good news. He remains in a coma, having sustained a severe head injury. I would join with my other colleague that posted in stating that Quinn is much admired and respected for his selfless nature. He is a guy who would give you the shirt off his back if you were in need. Humble, talented with an infectious chuckle. One of those rare individuals you count yourself lucky to meet and luckier to call a friend.

Those of us who know Quinn and have read this thread, really appreciate the support of the community and have taken strength from the outpouring of well wishes. We are currently in the process of raising funds to help pay for his treatment and support his family once they arrive. I will post further details once this has been organised but even your well-wishes have been of great help.

Sorry to hear mate thoughts an prayers go out to him an his family. Thank you for taking the time to post an update. Please disregard all this other rubbish people are posting.