kungfupete said...
Hope this guy is ok. Really sad news. These kind of accidents always make me feel sick! Reminds me of what happened to Laurie.

For all the would of, should of, could of.... **** happens. It could happen to anyone of us. When you get hit with a strong gust, you've got seconds to react or not.

If you don't have AKSA insurance cover, I recommend you sort it out. Our kites can just as easily hurt others if things go bad.

So similar to what happened with laure! But the wind didn't just come up it was fair consistant. Thats the first thing I thought when I got there

Stumbling across this thread, I'd like to inform everyone who has asked about the guy involved that he is currently in the Intensive Care Unit at the Alfred Hospital under Critical Condition and in an induced coma.

I know him extremely well as he is one of my closest work colleague and is very well-loved by all his peers for his selfless and humble personality. We are extremely devastated that this happened to him. As far as I know he has been kitesurfing very regularly(on a weekly basis for almost a year now).

Doctors are yet to disclose his full condition for privacy reasons as we are still waiting for his family members to arrive from the United States. But speaking with a few others who were with him yesterday and today, things aren't on the up at the moment. Whether or not this accident could have been prevented, this is one of the best person I know.

I will be visiting him tomorrow and will be bringing everyone's well-wishes and prayers with me when I go.

I hope everyone continues praying for his full-recovery. His name is Quinn.

Ian K said..
...What do you reckon Tungsten?

I reckon this is not the right moment or thread for geeking out. This is to give a rough "napkin" idea of the speed involved and shows a full 360 is well within the speeds we reach in kiting.

The important thing to learn is: double speed is not twice the kinetic energy. It's FOUR TIMES the energy. Kinetic energy is proportional to the SQUARE of speed. As you (as a kiter) have to absorb this energy with your body in case of a crash, it is in your very interest to understand this properly.

I'm a seasoned kiter. On the back of my experience, I would give this advice for safer kiting:

- Safety drill. A proper safety drill includes releasing to QR until it becomes second nature ("acquired reflex"). 10-20 repetitions to learn, and a couple releases every now and then.

- Learn to read a spot and conditions. Seek leeway. Don't follow the crowd like a lemming. Ask locals for advice. Walk the extra mile if that gives you leeway.

- If you have a sketchy launch (can't always avoid it), double your awareness, have one hand at the QR, include hitting the QR in your mental check list before launching.

- Keep the kite low and go on the water immediately

All the best Quinn.

thats faaarked... thoughts are with u mateappears from reading witnesses comments the mistake of panicking and pulling on your bar when unexpextently put off balance... lost vision of your kite... easy to do if your inexperienced as its a reflex thing to try and right yourself... I still do it sometimes but usaully in the surf.... onland and intight spaces always be in the mind set to let go of bar should you be in this predicamentand have hand on safety.... always better outcome to have a red cheeked premature safety release than a vertibrae busting kite loop..

HaydenDekker said...
I saw KSS down there today and they didn't seem to be to fussed with a Rebel Kiter who put up his over sized kite and got dragged down the beach in 30knot winds. Sorry KSS but if your doing lessons from there and your on the beach you should be a bit more proactive in stopping silly behavior.

If it was on shore and with the distance he traveled that kite would have been in the trees for sure and quite possibly another event like yesterday.

Hope Quinn comes through.

Get your facts straight buddy before you get into any accusations. The kite school teaching was a Zoo instructor, we couldn't believe he took out the guy he was teaching and left him out on the sand bars on his own and when we approached him he just ignored us. He obviously realised he was being watched so took off to retrieve his student that was now 200-300m away. This is the bull**** that goes on. Then we had Kite Republic turn up in there sign written truck. As they were getting ready to set up, so I rang my mate at the council, he told me to take photos of the truck and also the instructor with the kites with Jeep written on them with the guy instructing, as i began tacking photos, they put there equipment down.
One of the guys I was talking to later told me that they were only training their instructors.
As far as I know No instructing means no instructing at all at Altona. Any way the council has my photos.

Ps to the guy involved in the accident I wish you a quick and total recovery.

From a learners perspective it can be hard knowing which kite to put up.. I've only been kiting 3 months..

I suppose as a learner you just pull out whatever kite everyone else at the beach has up..

It's been working for me to say to myself: Hey I'm new I'll go a kite or two smaller than what everybody else has up..

Start small, have control and work up to larger kites?

Kite instructors do an amazing job, but you still need to go to the beach and ask people whats going on so they can give you a hand..

I'd much rather feel underpowered and come in to pump up another kite than be overpowered..

Really feel for the family involved.

Stop - do not beat yourself or others up over this....
The point of this thread is to
- Open eyes / awareness
- To offer well wishes and prayers (as relevant) to the injured
- say thanks for people who went to help
- to try and thrash out one or more ideas which might catch-on more publicly

I put in a fair amount of time in 2003/4/5 at Altona.
I learnt there.
At the start it was all based out of the APEX park, but gradually people found it easier / more convenient further down all the way to the pier until restrictions came in - cleaner, more sand, beach groomed at times, less walk out at low tide, space, but more man made hazhards etc.
Back then you had beginners getting lofted, dragged and getting caught out - The local house on the corner had more than one kite end in their yard etc. Injuries happened. Accidents through a quirky set of circumstances will happen.

What has changed since then to now?
Certainly the kites are better aerodynamically, so more stable easier to control, have easier and more effective safety systems.
The lessons -- possibly marginally better - but not for sure - a lot of factors to make a call and then only a margin call.

The focus is the unchanged portion - the pilot.
The common theme is risk awareness and how to assess this, how to minimise and negate it. (You know the all pervasive campaigns.... Drink driving campaigns speeding campaigns, sunscreen campaigns smoking campaigns bike helmet campaigns.... it is a hard slog it is always education based and occasionally there is bulls eye where something pops up which sticks - anyone who saw will remember the grim reaper adds on aids).

Most of you will have fairly secure attitudes on how you go about kiting, mostly there is a strong ish theme of common sense. But it takes seeing an event like this happen to shock you into automatically re-evaluating and to be prepared to change how you do things, is there a better way?

Please consider taking 2 things away from this...
1). Re-evaluate how you do things just to be sure - you are never too good to learn...
2). Be part of the education slog - every time you know your risk sense kicks in - someone could benefit.
-- Do not be put off by an abrupt / rude / abusive response - I can ignore that person but don't make the next person you would have talked to miss the warnings because of a ____er ...

If you are new, and have the common sense to realise what you do not know is a risk you are on the right track ask

Play safe
Cheers
AP

KSSALTONA said..

Saffer said...

random101 said..

Saffer you don't seem to be very constructive.

Have a look at Steve's post from kss going beyond to try and make things better and safer for kiters, please take a moment and maybe cool down before you post something post haist.

It was an unfortunate event... Like any sport it has its risks....

I am actually trying to be constructive. Steve's is one of the only people who has actually proposed doing something about it, but ultimately, Steve on his own won't change the world and the kiters can't sit around waiting for him to change things because its unfair and one person has limited power. Someone proposed licensing but they were blown out and ultimately this is what happens every time these post come up. Steve will may get a sign post change but kiters will go about their normal lives and in a years time someone else will be seriously injured when they ignore the sign.

I'm away on business in the states until the 27th but has anyone actually bothered to get in touch with the KBV, get a couple of the senior and more experienced regulars together with KSS to call a meeting with the KBV? How about that as a good starting point because if the council does see this (and they do read the forum) it would be good if the community has actually started to take action instead of everyone sitting around saying "Shame, poor guy" and hoping it never happens again.

Then, after you've called a meeting, you sit down and try work on some changes of varying degrees to try stop it happening again. Once that has happened, you pass on some feedback to the community about the proposed changes and then you go to the council (for the council comes to you with a prospect enema that would make a back room airport search look mild) and you actually show that you are doing something to make kiting safer and ensure that the community are safe.

Hey athol, im in contact with the council every few days at the moment and working on ways we can make sure it works for everyone. Hobsons bay council have been great but we need to zone the areas for beginner to expert and let the whole kiteing community know. Im working on it all the time and some locals like rich today are telling guys who are doing the wrong thing to move on.
Signage is there at the moment and is quite big, I guess kiters also need to check when they turn up to a new spot.
Anyway im doing my best and have brochures in the shop from parks vic showing zoned areas for altona.

Good to hear Steve. The reason I suggested having a discussion is to cover a couple of areas:

1. Why did he launch where he wasn't supposed to? Does there need to be signage there to indicate no kiting (I don't know if there is, I don't park down that end but if there isn't, maybe there should)
2. What can be done to get the message out to the community? Perhaps the council has some contacts that could push out the proposed kiting maps via methods that have a larger reader base like council newspapers.
3. Is there a more suitable spot for beginners that is not currently zoned for beginners?
4. What do we do about the instruction currently happening at Altona that shouldn't be?
5. What actions can be taken by local beach goes to help?
etc.

In short, having a couple of heads together is likely to come up with more ideas and alternatives (good and bad) on how to solve them.

As an example, the question above by a beginner indicates that clearly instructors aren't covering wind range concepts properly. By the time a person finishes lessons, they should at least have a basic idea of wind readings vs gust, kiting in gusty conditions vs clean wind, kite size estimates for their weight, recommended wind ranges. These are almost more important than getting up on a board.

DutchRooster said..

Terrible accident, sorry to hear of it.

Hope Quinn makes a full recovery, and soon.

Some of the VIC crew could take a page out of the book of the WA crew and show some support for a fellow kiter in need rather than dissect what went wrong. Plenty of time for that later. It sounds like this kid is here in Aus on his own - it would be nice for the community that shares his stoke to rally together to help in any way possible.

I second what Dutch says. This is not the time or place for analyzing who did what, or how the physics of how it happened. It is a time for sending as much support as possible and having the kiting community rally behind one of our own and his family that is in desperate need. I am all for improving what sounds like a tricky stretch of beach, but put it in another thread a sticky in the Vic section even. There just seems to be more concern over that then the poor bloke himself.

Priorities people.

Sending all my thoughts and prayers to him and his family and hoping he comes out of this ok.

The last few guys that posted , well done good to see some people care about the injured kiter, that's what this is about ,not trying to protect your own little piece of kiting beach and dissect the reasons why , that can come later.

Common guys get behind the injured kiter and support him and family.

All my thoughts for Quinn and hoping he starts to recover soon.

bearbusa said...
The last few guys that posted , well done good to see some people care about the injured kiter, that's what this is about ,not trying to protect your own little piece of kiting beach and dissect the reasons why , that can come later.

Common guys get behind the injured kiter and support him and family.

All my thoughts for Quinn and hoping he starts to recover soon.

That's great in theory but do you want to know how many threads were started after Nick was injured and went into a coma? Zero. Yup. Zero

And if something was done about it then, maybe this thread wouldn't exist .

That's exactly what we do here. When someone gets hurt, we discuss it for the first 3 or 4 pages and then everyone complains about it and says "think of the family" and the topic disappears into oblivion until the next accident. It happens every year and no one actual does a f-thing thing about it.

I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just trying to make sure that it's not someone else's wife/ girlfriend/family sitting at someone's bedside when they're in a coma. I'm sorry, if it was me and a year later there was another accident, I'd be pretty disappointed that the community hadn't done anything to prevent it happening again.

My thoughts are with the injured kiter and his friends, family and kiting buddies. Speedy recovery.

Regarding "taking action to prevent similar occurrences" - talk is cheap. A thousand words in this or other forum posts will achieve nothing, as past history clearly indicates.

Some options are to get active with the KBV Committee to get better signage in place (and maybe beach marshalls?), or you could approach local Councils directly.

I got active with KBV a few years ago to get some signs at Hampton, but unfortunately not much has happened to date. Persistence is required.

Saffer said..

random101 said..

Kazan said..

NoBS said..

Good move..

At least now you have peace of mind that your family won't have to fork out if you become disabled or even pass away..

I think I've said this before, but some of the onus has to fall on the shops.

I don't think this has anything to do with the shops... nor should they take onus.

The idea of selling KBV memberships instore is a good idea but it's just as easy to get it online...


In the end it's up to the individual, if he isn't allowed to buy one from a shop they'll just ebay one... Anyhow this is all very much offtopic

I wish him and his family a speedy and healthy recovery - and again thank everyone that was there. It's a great sport and community let's not see it go to waste.

I disagree, this is everyone's problem. Kiters, shops, instructors. It comes down to everyone doing their part to make sure these things don't happen.

Precisely my point Saff. We can *all* do something to minimise the risk to personal injury. The last thing anyone wants is for families to start to vent and get angry at individuals, the shops, or clubs / associations and forcing issues in court to make a point. There is no reason why the media does not take sides with this as well, and suddenly we have Parks Vic and Hobsons Bay Council banning the sport altogether where we'll be forced to drive out to Sandy or Torquay for a ride!

If we all are at least seen to be pro-active and helping people into the sport with due diligence in mind, the less possibility of litigation further on. Not that I am aiming blame at this poor fellow though, as I wish him a safe and quick recovery.

harry potter said..

salt said...
Its really shocking and sad. I'm so sorry to read this and i hope he gets better. I always tell people who look unsteady what to do at Altona, I've seen beginners "practicing" onshore with full size kites. I promptly guide them into the water and explain the dangers. We should all do the same.

In terms of licences start with these first:

Sports with the most serious injuries
% of injured reporting serious injury
Boxing 55%
Rock Climbing 43%
Rugby League 34%
Horse Riding 31%
Sailing 30%
Rugby Union 28%

You are missing a very important point..... None of the above sports put the general public in potential harms way.

Comparing the current accident in kiting to the above sports is akin to saying we should be tough on boxing because fighters are killing themselves walking up the stairs heading into the ring, or be tough on mountain biking because every time a rider hopes off his killing himself trying to put air into the tryes,,,,,,,,Im a windsurfer, central coast, nsw, from observations, kiters look good on the water, but some get in big trouble with the launching, it really is an aspect of the sport that needs to be addressed, people are dying, people are seriously getting life insurance based on the fact they have to launch a kite? Im sure the experienced kiters could give the good advice, and hopefully the guys coming through the ranks can take the advice seriously,, it seems ridiculous but maybe some over the top industrial style OH&S needs to be applied to the launching of a kiter boarder??? For the record, you do need a license to box professionally, none of the above sports let the user have access to a platform they haven't prepared for, eg, you wanna start playing footy, your first game wont be against the all blacks, boxing, you wont be fighting iron mike first fight (start easy, maybe mundine, ha), but with unregulated hobbies, you can find yourself out of your depth sometimes, which is probably part of becoming good, but too deep, and your getting hit by iron mike! Ha, good luck all, there is some good kiters at canton, one guy set up a rail slide the other day, and was doing some sorta something with it, looked sweet, nearly as sweet as windsurfing

Putting all the onus on Steve alone is really duck-shoving the responsibility that the kiting community as a whole should carry. And I for one think it should be spearheaded by KBV and AKSA.