700/380 ultra short is my combo at the moment

Yet to try the new 650 which is low drag which should be even better. My yet to kite with 830 should also work very well for some extra glide, same low drag release as the 650 too. They are v2 HPS wings and very fast

ART899 has me interested for light wind instead of HPS930. The reviews for ART999 for pump/prone/wing are pretty wild.

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KBGhost said..
ART899 has me interested for light wind instead of HPS930. The reviews for ART999 for pump/prone/wing are pretty wild.

Hi KBGhost
I just bought an Axis 930 for windwing and have had 1 session on it and all good.
How is it for kite foiling,what do u weight and what wind range?
Thanks

Jeez, how big do you need to go? I'm rapidly over-powered on the 760 with a 10m kite in even the lightest wind.

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KBGhost said..
ART899 has me interested for light wind instead of HPS930. The reviews for ART999 for pump/prone/wing are pretty wild.

999 way too big and especially too wide for kite. I once kited with the 1050 which was terrible for carving.
The future smaller ATR sizes would be interesting though. Tiny surface area and AR 9 something

To answer Asylum & Warwick at once. I'm 95kgs last I looked but heading towards 100. I like to foil with peak 4s as I have gotten stuck on them and struggle to enjoy other kites. So I'm typically lightly powered

As per posts above I had a 600 & 545 wings for more powered and flat water riding, which I have replaced with the HPS700 and really love that.

. If possible I like the 6m Peak to be my light wind kite, although I have a 10m which gets rare use.. but mostly it's the 6m.

I have been using the 820 as my Foil for light wind and surf. It did everything I wanted, except I wanted a bit more top speed on demand, but without giving up the ridiculous stall speed, where it feels like you can nearly stop and spin on the spot if you want.

The 820s 1500cm? lifts me out the water quite easily although at the bottom end of the wind range that might be 4 or 5 loops each way till it hooks up and goes. I didn't want to lose too much wing area so I thought the 930s 1200cm? was a good compromise.

I've had one awesome, up there with the best ever, wave session with the 930. It was 8-10kts when I started but climbed to say 15kts. And another tricky river session with light winds and strong currents.

My impressions of the 930. It isn't as lifty as the 820 getting up however the extra glide helps link power stroke 1&2 to get you up and on the foil. So it's a different feeling but no harder to get up. It's very stable but I can carve it round just fine. Its so stable I'm going to try it with my 80cm board next session so I will have no swing weight. It has a great stall speed, can slow right down.

I breached the tips a few times especially on waves with no issue, kept going. So the extra 55mm each side isn't really an issue if there's no drama with popping a tip out.

I have it on short fuse and 370 currently but it still feels a bit slow cruise speed. Unless you're pointing down hill then it takes off. I'm probably going to go to Ultra short and 380.

My wind range for 930 would be from 7-8kts with the ultra light Nova 10, from 10kts with the p4 6m. Upper end, I would take in big surf/big wind with a small peak to keep speed down. I struggle with fast foils in big lumpy seas it's too easy to have air under your Foil not water.

Asylum yes the ART 899 is the one that interests me, 999 too big for kite. The 899 would be slightly smaller than 930.

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KBGhost said..
To answer Asylum & Warwick at once. I'm 95kgs last I looked but heading towards 100. I like to foil with peak 4s as I have gotten stuck on them and struggle to enjoy other kites. So I'm typically lightly powered

As per posts above I had a 600 & 545 wings for more powered and flat water riding, which I have replaced with the HPS700 and really love that.

. If possible I like the 6m Peak to be my light wind kite, although I have a 10m which gets rare use.. but mostly it's the 6m.

I have been using the 820 as my Foil for light wind and surf. It did everything I wanted, except I wanted a bit more top speed on demand, but without giving up the ridiculous stall speed, where it feels like you can nearly stop and spin on the spot if you want.

The 820s 1500cm? lifts me out the water quite easily although at the bottom end of the wind range that might be 4 or 5 loops each way till it hooks up and goes. I didn't want to lose too much wing area so I thought the 930s 1200cm? was a good compromise.

I've had one awesome, up there with the best ever, wave session with the 930. It was 8-10kts when I started but climbed to say 15kts. And another tricky river session with light winds and strong currents.

My impressions of the 930. It isn't as lifty as the 820 getting up however the extra glide helps link power stroke 1&2 to get you up and on the foil. So it's a different feeling but no harder to get up. It's very stable but I can carve it round just fine. Its so stable I'm going to try it with my 80cm board next session so I will have no swing weight. It has a great stall speed, can slow right down.

I breached the tips a few times especially on waves with no issue, kept going. So the extra 55mm each side isn't really an issue if there's no drama with popping a tip out.

I have it on short fuse and 370 currently but it still feels a bit slow cruise speed. Unless you're pointing down hill then it takes off. I'm probably going to go to Ultra short and 380.

My wind range for 930 would be from 7-8kts with the ultra light Nova 10, from 10kts with the p4 6m. Upper end, I would take in big surf/big wind with a small peak to keep speed down. I struggle with fast foils in big lumpy seas it's too easy to have air under your Foil not water.

Asylum yes the ART 899 is the one that interests me, 999 too big for kite. The 899 would be slightly smaller than 930.

Thanks good review

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KBGhost said..
I didn't want to lose too much wing area

There was a thread on KF where some said that area is almost irrelevant as part of the consideration, and I'm somewhat inclined to agree with them. For example, the 660 has an aggressive lift profile compared to the 820 and you don't actually lose a lot in bottom end, but you do give up something in the way of glide -- I assume because of the profile.

The 760 brings back the glide, and is IMO an improvement over the 820 in all areas, if not better on the low end...

I think in different designs area is possibly only one of many considerations.
However, if design is the same eg, profile, aspect ratio etc then area must play a bigger role particularly bottom end and top end performance.
In my real life situation I bought a Moses 950 for windwing which at the time was promoted to be 1600 sq cm. I was a little disappointed with the bottom end performance but otherwise it was excellent. A few months later Moses advised it was a miss print as actual area is a bit over 1300 sq cm.
I have since purchased a 1050 Axis at 1500 sq cm and it has the bottom end performance I was after for windwing plus a 930 Axis that may do very light wind kite foil and higher wind windwing.

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warwickl said..
However, if design is the same eg, profile, aspect ratio etc then area must play a bigger role particularly bottom end and top end performance.

Oh for sure, and all the trade-offs etc. All the flavors of Axis wings are AFAIK different profiles and AR, so things of similar sizes are going to have different results... Guess that's have the fun of trying gear

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Alysum said..
700/380 ultra short is my combo at the moment

This in flat water, 15-18kts, Peak 4 4m. Absolute perfection. Such an engaging foil and kite combo, I had more fun on monday in flat water with this combo than I would have had in the surf.

The 830 is such a fun freeride kite foil. It's one of those wings that feels just right from the first time I got onto it. Really easy to ride, fast, stable, manoeuvrable, just a pleasure to ride. 380 rear, short fuse, will try the ultra short next time.
Had a couple of 999 sessions as well, good fun, but lift is quite intense, not really a kite specialist. Turns well for it's span.

I'm really looking forward to kiting with my 830....have only winged with it (lockdown so no access to long beaches for kite). 830 is thinner and has less volume than my 700 so I'll be expecting more speed from less drag plus extra glide

Has anyone tried the 650?

Now demoed the BCS 810 for windwing and it was amazing and user friendly.
Anyone tried it for kite foiling?

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StephenZ said..
Had a couple of 999 sessions as well, good fun, but lift is quite intense, not really a kite specialist. Turns well for it's span.

Interesting, good to hear some kite feedback on this wing. I'm interested in the next smaller size (will be 899 I guess) vs my current HPS 930 for light wind and surf.

This comment popped up on the peak 4 thread which caught my interest as well...

High aspect pumping wings work great with the peaks in swell,... The so called 'surf' foil wings usually have a low-mid aspect with a very thick profile, which simply creates drag, making them very inefficient (ruining your glide when the kite is not powered) and the thickness generates too much lift with higher speeds. I've just moved to an Axis ART 999 ... and it's brilliant with the peaks. The 999 with ultrashort fuse turns well, pumps amazingly, goes fast upwind because it's so efficient and slippery, but can still slow down and ride with the energy of swell when you're heading downwind and the kite is barely powering you. The high aspect wings generate lift more efficiently at low speed, so they extend the low end of the peaks a lot.

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KBGhost said..

StephenZ said..
Had a couple of 999 sessions as well, good fun, but lift is quite intense, not really a kite specialist. Turns well for it's span.

Interesting, good to hear some kite feedback on this wing. I'm interested in the next smaller size (will be 899 I guess) vs my current HPS 930 for light wind and surf.

This comment popped up on the peak 4 thread which caught my interest as well...

High aspect pumping wings work great with the peaks in swell,... The so called 'surf' foil wings usually have a low-mid aspect with a very thick profile, which simply creates drag, making them very inefficient (ruining your glide when the kite is not powered) and the thickness generates too much lift with higher speeds. I've just moved to an Axis ART 999 ... and it's brilliant with the peaks. The 999 with ultrashort fuse turns well, pumps amazingly, goes fast upwind because it's so efficient and slippery, but can still slow down and ride with the energy of swell when you're heading downwind and the kite is barely powering you. The high aspect wings generate lift more efficiently at low speed, so they extend the low end of the peaks a lot.

Ok first of all I wing foil 95% of the time these days but still break out the kite from time to time.
Despite doing a bit of kite foiling over the years I never really got into it, I started on a KFA mako race foil but was mainly using big axis surf type foils 680, 820, 900 and just cruising.
I recently bought a 999 and the first go was with a wing on an ocean downwinder, the ART999 is fantastic for that and is what I really bought it for.
On the first go I had some of the fastest kph splits I have ever done straight up, it can keep up with big ocean swells with the wing fully luffed for kms at a time.
Awesome downwind wing foil.
I recently use it with an 8mtr Peak 4, 860 carbon mast, short fuse and 380 rear, in around 9-10 knots.
It was a big improvement over the old wings I was using and handled well thanks to its speed and glide.
I am certain something like the HPS 830, 700 or even the new 650 would be better faster kite wings but the 999 is still a capable kite wing.

For the record though I find this statement from the above quote a little strange....
"but can still slow down and ride with the energy of swell when you're heading downwind and the kite is barely powering you."

When I am downwinding on ocean swells with the wing fully flagged I am doing between 25-34kph just using the power of the swell.
As good as the peaks are at drifting, there is no way I can go anywhere near straight downwind at that speed towards the kite, you have to zig zag way more and concentrate on where the kite is the whole time.

which series of Axis foils work best with a peak 4 in ocean swells? Sydney based and generally my wind is a cross-on seabreeze 15-25 knots

I'd have guessed the slower Axis wings would be best ("pump and glide" or "surf performance" series). That way the Peak 4's drift is maximised and slow playful turns are possible.

Am 95kg currently on the Liquid Force impulse surf foil (S24 Cloud IX). Thinking about moving to Axis' 19mm aluminum mast.

Thanks in advance for opinions

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NathanG said..
which series of Axis foils work best with a peak 4 in ocean swells? Sydney based and generally my wind is a cross-on seabreeze 15-25 knots

I'd have guessed the slower Axis wings would be best ("pump and glide" or "surf performance" series). That way the Peak 4's drift is maximised and slow playful turns are possible.

Am 95kg currently on the Liquid Force impulse surf foil (S24 Cloud IX). Thinking about moving to Axis' 19mm aluminum mast.

Thanks in advance for opinions

I would go HPS for kite, they still turn pretty well and glides better than BSC. BSC will carve a little more and likes to go slow with a lower stall speed.
Forget PNG they are too big and not for kite.
Surf performance works well in waves but is quite slow. Best to use the black fuse
Best would be to demo if you can.

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Alysum said..

NathanG said..
which series of Axis foils work best with a peak 4 in ocean swells? Sydney based and generally my wind is a cross-on seabreeze 15-25 knots

I'd have guessed the slower Axis wings would be best ("pump and glide" or "surf performance" series). That way the Peak 4's drift is maximised and slow playful turns are possible.

Am 95kg currently on the Liquid Force impulse surf foil (S24 Cloud IX). Thinking about moving to Axis' 19mm aluminum mast.

Thanks in advance for opinions

I would go HPS for kite, they still turn pretty well and glides better than BSC. BSC will carve a little more and likes to go slow with a lower stall speed.
Forget PNG they are too big and not for kite.
Surf performance works well in waves but is quite slow. Best to use the black fuse
Best would be to demo if you can.

I would second this.

I had an 820 as a ocean swell wing and it works well, easy stable wing which is nice in swell, won't go too fast so you're not struggling to keep it in the water. As an entry level it's not bad at all and there are more S series around cheap as the black takes over. The only thing is I started maxing the speed and wanting just a couple of knots more.

I believe a 760 would be similar but a bit carvier, ie less stable in a straight line, but more stable in a carve. However I've only tried 660 once or twice.

I have moved to the HPS 930 as an upgrade. It's not a bad wave foil with peaks IMHO. I had a great lession last thursday 8-14kts p4 6m. Rode lots of waves. I find it turns as fast as I'd like with a tray 94. Tip breaches don't really matter so the extra width isn't an issue. It can slow to walking speed and turn nearly on the spot, like the 820, then accelerate off in new direction when you power the kite up.

my 2c, 95kg rider.