NSW South Coast water temp this year has exceeded what's gone on before.
At least where I live, Gerroa, which is two hours drive south of Sydney centre.
All of February we had 24C.
Right now it's 19C that's because of the constant NE winds we have had over the past 8 days.
Further out to sea the water is still 24+C.
No doubt the next Southerly will wash the warm stuff back in and we will back to 24C.

In the past the best you'd normally see is between 21-22C.
In the 70's through to 90's we could go all year and never make it above 20C.

Just wondering what's happening in your part of Oz?

www.seatemperature.org/australia-pacific/australia/sydney-february.htm

A warm current washed through my part of oz and completely wiped out a pretty decent abalone fishery a couple of years ago.

I'm interested in water temp in WA as it actually does have an effect on the patterns that cross the country.
The east coast had the strongest El Nino every recorded in Spring this year and strangely the south coast of NSW had quite high rainfall.
What happened was we had very dry periods punctuated by 3 lots of massive down pours.
So in effect we had both Wet and dry.

The rain mostly originated from WA rather the south which is where we normally get most of our rain.
I heard that NT wasn't getting their normal wet season.
It appears the yellow river cruises in Kakadu this year might be cancelled because of the lack of water.
I have a feeling the South Coast on at latest one occasion got the rain that they missed.

I just read the letter below from a tourism operator trying to save what should be so precious to us all.

I’ve been a tourism operator on the Reef for the last 10 years running a tallship, which offers sailing and snorkelling tours. I have made my living by sharing our underwater wonderland with people from all corners of the world.
The most magical thing about my job is seeing the delight on the faces of the tourists when I pick them up after a day of diving on the Reef.
But I know from first hand experience the impact that global warming is having on our Reef.
Right now parts of the Great Barrier Reef are bleaching. The mining and burning of coal and other fossil fuels is causing global warming, which is heating up the Reef’s waters at an alarming rate. The hot water stresses the corals and causes bleaching.
Runoff from farms pollutes Reef waters with nutrients, sediments, and pesticides – which makes corals more vulnerable to bleaching and reduces their ability to recover.
We still don’t know how bad the bleaching will get this year, but we do know this is a man made problem and if we don’t urgently tackle global warming, and cut farm pollution, the Reef’s colours could fade away.
When I met with politicians, I told them that a $6 billion tourism industry and 70,000 Queensland jobs are relying on them to protect the Reef from future coral bleaching.
And that I have seen the direct effects of the coastal and port development on North Queensland waters.
Since I have been a Reef tourism operator, nearly 1500 turtles were stranded in just one year (2011) and nearly 350 dugongs were stranded in four years (2008 to 2011) from Port Douglas south, due to extreme weather. Deformed fish have been identified in Gladstone Harbour due to dredging and dumping for industrial ports.
But they need to hear from all of us. Our political leaders must do more to protect the Reef by rapidly shifting from coal to renewable energy and controlling farm pollution.

As hard hitting as this letter is it always amazes me that no one mentions the enormous biodiversity loss which surely far outweighs the jobs and dollars lost.
Dr. Charlie Veron a world authority on the Great Barrier Reef and Australia’s former Chief Scientist at the Australian Institute of Marine Science said there will be no Great Barrier Reef by the end of this century.
It's hard to comprehend that this is not only happening but that its not even a serious part of the media feed.

I don't think anything will change while political parties receive massive donations from large companies which have an interest in keeping the status quo. If you want a cleaner world, I think this would be the place to start.

Climate and environmental change is a natural occurrence

It has been happening since the big bang and will continue to happen until the next big bang

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p train said..
Climate and environmental change is a natural occurrence

It has been happening since the big bang and will continue to happen until the next big bang

Yes ptrain but until now it has never been driven by the massive increase of green house gasses created by humans.
Never before has climate change happened so quickly.
Quick change sadly gives many species very little chance to adapt.
Mass extinctions are therefore much more likely under this scenario.

Australia is simply not weighing in enough!!
We need too, or be judged very poorly.
Just in case you are a bean counter.
Poorly judged nations acquire a poor public opinion abroad, which ultimately effects sales.

Professor Will Steffen said the following:

Australia is the custodian of one of the seven wonders of the natural world. Not only is the reef astoundingly beautiful, it’s also a billion dollar economic asset. Its value-added economic contribution to the Australian economy in 2011-12 was $5.7 billion and it supported 69,000 jobs. This natural asset is increasingly threatened by climate change.

As the Earth’s temperature rises due to climate change, our oceans are experiencing record-breaking heat. Since March 2016, the weekly average sea surface temperature over the northern Great Barrier Reef has been around 1-1.5°C above the recent decadal average (2002-2011) for this time of year, with even higher temperatures in some localised waters.
Aerial surveys of more than 500 coral reefs from Cairns to Papua New Guinea reveal that in the most pristine section of the Great Barrier Reef the overwhelming majority of reefs are ranked in the most severe bleaching category.

Proff Will Steffen is fully backed by 50 leading scientists with over 1,000 years of experience studying climate change, marine ecosystems and the reef.
Their message is clear, “Climate Change is Destroying Our Reefs. We Must Phase Out Coal”.

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Knottedup said..

p train said..
Climate and environmental change is a natural occurrence

It has been happening since the big bang and will continue to happen until the next big bang

Yes ptrain but until now it has never been driven by the massive increase of green house gasses created by humans.
Never before has climate change happened so quickly.

OK I know there is climate change but I take issue with those two lines

It is not necessarily driven by humans. Or, the contribution humans have is uncertain. The amount of greenhouse gases released by just one of the biggest volcanic eruptions recorded, is larger than humans have made since the industrial revolution. I am talking the sort of eruption that happens every 100 -300 years.

Never before has it happened so quickly? How do we know?
Measurements of deep polar ice and stuff may show gas levels and we can infer temp from some things but I doubt rate of change can be calculated when we were not there.

What we need is another tax

(Which one is the sarcasm emoji..?)

The water in sydney is as warm as it gets still. And was 34dgs last week wtf??!? Also was tge wettest summer i can remember.

^^^^wow this guy huh. ...
for a Johnny come lately
Sure has a thing for you Mark_Australia

What do you mean Johnny come lately, it is the same loser......

really very sad existence he must have.

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Mark _australia said..

Knottedup said..

p train said..
Climate and environmental change is a natural occurrence

It has been happening since the big bang and will continue to happen until the next big bang

Yes ptrain but until now it has never been driven by the massive increase of green house gasses created by humans.
Never before has climate change happened so quickly.

It is not necessarily driven by humans. Or, the contribution humans have is uncertain. The amount of greenhouse gases released by just one of the biggest volcanic eruptions recorded, is larger than humans have made since the industrial revolution. I am talking the sort of eruption that happens every 100 -300 years.

People can red thumb Mark all they want, however what he has commented on in bold print above, is correct , regardless.

Co2 makes up about 3% of greenhouse gases, the other gases are methane, water vapor etc

The human contribution of that 3% co2 is about 3% again, the rest is naturally occuring

So over all the total human contributions to greenhouse gas is about 0.12%

Remember, co2 is a natural occuring plant food, it is odorless, invisable, harmless plant food, we breath it out

There is about 400 parts per million (ppm) at the moment in the atmosphere. We quite often live in an indoor (office, car, home etc) environment where it is 1000's ppm due to human breathing. That is normal.

So from all that, which is plain common knowledge facts, not opinion, some people believe humans co2 is the main driver of global warming.

Most of the alarmism comes from predictions, not reality or observations. I wonder if they are still using the same computer models that predicted the Y2K bug.

Humans are smashing the environment, but not with co2.

Thankyou Mineral and p train

Everybody knows we need to reduce the extravagance, we can't go on using the planet like we are now.

But to blame people for greenhouse gases is ridiculous, when the last 300yrs of greenhouse gas emissions from people and out industry and farming, is dwarfed by one volcanic eruption in the same period.

I am bemused by those who moan about what we are doing to the planet, yet they must have a big house with no eaves at all and acres of glass - in bloody australia - so they need aircon. Or they have to have the iPhone 6 that has no tangible benefit over the 5. This list goes on.............

But I can't talk I have a car, and windsurfing equipment uses all the nasty crap chemicals.

OTOH the worst case scenario where the gulfstrem stops or reverses, makes Australia and southern USA the ONLY inhabitable places on earth.
Think we have a refugee thing going on now....?

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p train said..
Co2 makes up about 3% of greenhouse gases, the other gases are methane, water vapor etc

The human contribution of that 3% co2 is about 3% again, the rest is naturally occuring

So over all the total human contributions to greenhouse gas is about 0.12%



Humans are smashing the environment, but not with co2.

The concentration of Co2 in the atmosphere is one thing we do know for sure about the climate. It was about 280ppm before the industrial revolution and we've got good records since 1958. Our contribution is 30% not 3%. But then what? We're all aware of how estimates vary on what that will do.

I agree, the other ways that we're smashing the planet are probably more damaging. The planet would be far better able to cope with a bit extra Co2 If we left a bit more of the natural ecosystem on it. After all, the atmosphere is what it is only because of the life that's been on earth for 3 billion years.

Still getting good noreasters in mid April! Gotta be global warming?

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Mark _australia said..

Knottedup said..

p train said..
Climate and environmental change is a natural occurrence

It has been happening since the big bang and will continue to happen until the next big bang

Yes ptrain but until now it has never been driven by the massive increase of green house gasses created by humans.
Never before has climate change happened so quickly.

OK I know there is climate change but I take issue with those two lines

It is not necessarily driven by humans. Or, the contribution humans have is uncertain. The amount of greenhouse gases released by just one of the biggest volcanic eruptions recorded, is larger than humans have made since the industrial revolution. I am talking the sort of eruption that happens every 100 -300 years.

Never before has it happened so quickly? How do we know?
Measurements of deep polar ice and stuff may show gas levels and we can infer temp from some things but I doubt rate of change can be calculated when we were not there.

Mark are you saying that the effect of Human produced green house gases is not significant?
Are you also saying the these added emissions on top of the natural occurring emission doesn't matter?
I prefer to listen to the vast majority of scientists that say otherwise.

Those same scientist say that the speed of climate change has not been seen before.
Which also by chance starts to rise exponentially at the start of the industrial revolution.
Are you saying these increases have been caused by a volcanic eruption?

BTW the one thing we can work out is the contribution humans have had to green house gases.
We know how much oil, gas, coal ... has been mined and we also know what effect each one has had on the increase in greenhouse gases.

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Knottedup said..
NSW South Coast water temp this year has exceeded what's gone on before.
At least where I live, Gerroa, which is two hours drive south of Sydney centre.
All of February we had 24C.
Right now it's 19C that's because of the constant NE winds we have had over the past 8 days.
Further out to sea the water is still 24+C.
No doubt the next Southerly will wash the warm stuff back in and we will back to 24C.

In the past the best you'd normally see is between 21-22C.
In the 70's through to 90's we could go all year and never make it above 20C.

Just wondering what's happening in your part of Oz?

Its a very late reply to your post, but are you sure about this? Have you been taking measurements or do you have stats to go from?

I remember as a kid just out of school in the early nineties and we would go swimming in the ocean (south of Wollongong) in winter, and the water was surprisingly warm. I never measured it, but it was comfortable. In summer, it seemed colder, which suggested to me at the time that sometimes the currents lag behind.

I think this is normal.

My grandmother used to sit there saying that 'winters are not the same as they used to be'. I think she would be remembering some winters as cold and wet, and forgetting the winters that she would have experienced that were warmer and dry. Its Australia. Things don't occur in a regular annual pattern.

There is a guy at Gerroa that has been picking up rubbish on the beach in the early morning for more than 20 years.
He also over that period of time he has been writing the water temp measurements in the sand.
He is in his late 70's and has always lived in the area.
In March this year remarked to me that he in all his life had never seen the water so warm.

During Easter I met two young surfers from Tassie.
They told me that the water temp on the east coast of Tassie got to a 23C.
This temp was way above what they had ever seen.

This summer a Dugong found its way to Merimbula.
These guys below in the Tropics.
It was caught and shipped back to where it belonged.

I moved to the Kiama Municipality in 1975 and have never moved from this LGA.
I started surfing on a Mal in 1964, before test I body surfed.
My parents owned a weekender at Burrill Lake from 1968 onwards.
I surfed down that way until the 90's on a very regular basis.

Right now it is 22.5C at Gerroa.
In the days of School holidays in early May.
We were ALWAYS in steamers long before these holidays arrived.
I always went well North to Byron etc to a water temp in the low 20's so we could get back surf in board shorts.
May is just around the corner and by now the cold water had well and truly set in.

There is no doubt at all the water temp in summer is way warmer now than anytime since the 60's.
It would say the same about winter water as well, but don't have records of it to back me up.

Re water temp over the seasons.
It's normally coldest in my part of Australia from August until September.
The warmest water temps are normally in Feb.

I think your grandmother is correct the winter westerlies in the Illawarra are nothing like they use to be in the 70's until say 10 years ago.
They are far far less frequent.

I suppose local fluctuations from year to year, decade to decade can be large and noticeable. But they're still going to be fluctuations about the global ocean mean temperature. The rise through the years of the global ocean temperature is measurable but I don't think it's enough to be detected above the noise at your local beach yet. That's provided none of the major ocean currents, Gulf Stream etc, have flicked into another mode. Have they?

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mineral1 said..

Mark _australia said..

Knottedup said..

p train said..
Climate and environmental change is a natural occurrence

It has been happening since the big bang and will continue to happen until the next big bang

Yes ptrain but until now it has never been driven by the massive increase of green house gasses created by humans.
Never before has climate change happened so quickly.

It is not necessarily driven by humans. Or, the contribution humans have is uncertain. The amount of greenhouse gases released by just one of the biggest volcanic eruptions recorded, is larger than humans have made since the industrial revolution. I am talking the sort of eruption that happens every 100 -300 years.

People can red thumb Mark all they want, however what he has commented on in bold print above, is correct , regardless.

No, it's contentious.

www.skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming.htm

The facts are that CO2 is up and temperatures are rising. We know for sure that much of the increased CO2 is anthropogenic. To argue that it's the result of volcanism so it was bound to happen anyway is irrelevant to the issue of how we deal with it. It looks like a mischievous attempt to direct attention away from minimising the human contribution, and discredit the notion that it is possible to do anything about it. At best it's an appeal to dumb fatalism.

Spot on NotWal
Also I have to say other forms of environmental damage abhorrent as some are pale to insignificance when compared to the total future devastation of a climate change.
If we reach the tipping point there is no return to what we know the earth is in our time.
That's why this issue is just so important.
We are literally playing for keeps here.
So why are some so quick to play Russian Roulette our planet when so many leading Scientist, even at risk of loosing their job in Australia, are saying we need to change things and quickly?

An interesting link regarding water temps..

www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/bull-sharks-on-the-bite-in-hot-water-new-research-suggests-20160401-gnvs0i.html

As far I can see, all this discussion is just white noise and is missing the bigger issue. We have an increasing population on a planet of finite size with finite resources.

Most of the world economies are based on continual growth, which obviously cannot go on forever.

Our modern lives revolve around endless consumption of goods. Everything is packaged to a ridiculous degree, we use more and more energy, the human race just consumes so much STUFF!

Considering power alone, even if we had solar cells, wind turbines, whatever, to meet all our energy needs, there would be massive quantities of batteries and all sorts of other equipment that needs to be replaced on a regular basis.

When you replace a vehicle, or anything, how much of it is really recycled? Even if we increase our recycling efforts by orders of magnitude, is our modern society really sustainable? I doubt it very much.

Do any of us live a TRULY SUSTAINABLE lifestyle? What would our society really need to do to be able to last indefinitely? It would be radically different from anything we see today.

I don't know how far away the end is, but I wouldn't want to be around when it happens. I think it's going to be ugly. Hope I'm wrong.

Harrow,
Take a hold of yourself mate!
It sounds like you have given up!!
Agree doing nothing will be ugly.
We need to back people with balls these days.

Are you saying we can live in an unchanged way in the future?
The later half of my life sees change on a regular basis.
Well the decision is ours.
I strongly suggest that doing "nothing" will eventually mean we need to change the most.

Knotted,

My point really is that people seem to think that if we stop a (perceived??) rise in CO2 levels and install a few solar panels, then we will all be okay. I think that is not even minutely close to what is needed. The changes that need to be made for the human race to survive in the longer term are more than most people would dare to consider, or could even imagine. Achieving zero population growth and to have zero growth in GDP across the world immediately would be a very small start, but would not even be close to what is required for us to remain on the planet forever. It might be 200 years, or 500 years, but with 7.4 billion on the planet, and not stopping any time soon, we are simply going to run out of raw material at some time. Unless you are living a primitive subsistence life in a tent made of woven palm tree leaves, you are using up stuff, and it has to run out some time.

I agree we need to do something. I just think we need to do much much more, much much sooner. If we manage to do what is required, our lives will be totally unrecognisable from what they are today. I'm actually a climate change skeptic, but if a climate change scare gets us turning around, then I'm all for the hysteria.

In the meantime, I'll have another epoxy resin board and a few new plastic mono-film sails please. Gotta go now and install the final panel in my new aluminium screen fence, made from Aussie mined bauxite - it's good for the economy you know!

Harrow,
It's irrefutable that CO2 is rising!
I wish to be a part of the solution not part of the problem!!
It all starts with everyone doing something.
Don't worry some will do way more than others and show the way ahead.

Sorry but there is actually no option on this matter.
Do nothing and we will pay way more in so many ways.
How about the increase in "natural "disasters?
Very costly indeed.

You know you are actually doing a little right now with your push mower.
There is just so so much foolish wasting of energy.
Air conditioners in Asia which are set to make you just so cold you actually need a jacket.
I've felt the same in Australia.
Why do we need it so cold in summer that it's actually uncomfortable?
How about those ridiculous gas heaters in outdoor restaurants in the middle of winter.
In winter you should be indoors.

Huge houses for one or two people.
It won't be long until they are a thing of the past.
All that costly maintenance, unnecessary materials and energy wasted.
Most of us grew up in a modest home.
Do we need a room set aside for a home cinema?
Weekenders at Gerroa less than 2 minutes walk from the beach with swimming pools, water spouts and lights on all night to give the impression someone is home.

The list goes on and on.
These are things we can do and it would make a huge difference.
If everyone just had solar hot water we'd be well on the way.
You say it's going to be way too hard.
That's not the scientists are saying.

I'm hearing you about population does need to decrease.
However it's the west who are the big energy users.
We have small families, many can't afford to have families.
It's well documented that Education alone reduces a countries population increase.

How about planting more trees and cutting way less down.
This would be a huge benefit not only for CO2 reduction but also normal rainfall might start to be more normal in the tropics.

Renewable technology is improving rapidly and electric cars are about to really happen.
You can charge cars from your roof.
No costly petrol.
Massive reductions in air pollution.
China has a huge number of electric motor bikes, mainly to reduce air pollution.
Some of us are already not paying for their electricity.
It won't be long at all most of us won't not even be paying for fuel in our cars.

Then we will be truly living in exciting times.

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Knottedup said..
HAir conditioners in Asia which are set to make you just so cold you actually need a jacket.
I've felt the same in Australia.
Why do we need it so cold in summer that it's actually uncomfortable?

Ha, don 't get me started on that one. It is actually written policy in some Sydney function centers and hotels that the air conditioning be set at 19 deg C (I've seen the documents with my own eyes). What a joke, that should be illegal!!

Why do we need air conditioning set at 19 C when we are wearing our light summer clothing, and heating to 24 C when we are wearing warm winter clothing?

Open front fridges and freezers in supermarkets, should also illegal. At least the recent electricity price increases have made people change their behavior finally - latest Woolies near us now has sliding doors on their fridges.

Is there enough Lithium for all those LiPo batteries for electric vehicles all over the world? There is going to have to be some very efficient recycling program for them, because the batteries only last a few years.

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Harrow said
Is there enough Lithium for all those LiPo batteries for electric vehicles all over the world? There is going to have to be some very efficient recycling program for them, because the batteries only last a few years.

I think lithium batteries have a warranty for 10 years.
There are other battery compounds being developed which are said to be better than lithium.
Agree we need to recycle way better then ever before and that's not only batteries.
Kiama Council once again leads the way with reduction in tip waste thus a massive reduction of methane production.
A mate of mine taps off methane from his waste and this provides all his cooking needs.
Maybe one day this will become main stream.

I'd much prefer to feed in my solar direct to the grid as I am now.
However it would be more appropriate for me to be getting more than the merger 5.5c.
After all, my panels are producing best in the middle of the day and that's when industry including air con ... needs it most.
I'd also would be feeding in to my neighbours rather than the very wasteful way it comes to them now via many kms of wiring creating massive losses.
Double my feed in and I won't see the need store my power in the new batteries on the way.
Some will store their solar power in electric car battery then use it in their homes after dark.

I only wish we all would send a message to shopping centres that their air con setting are not what we want.
Yes I too have noticed more supermarkets having frig doors again like the did decades ago.