Here we are, international students are going to drop in numbers and we now have a surge in local students wanting to go to Uni.

but there are no extra places it seems... funding is from international students.

Surely it doesn't take a genius in government to realise that they should fund this as it keeps kids studying and leads to a better educated workforce?

I think we are stuck in a rut. We want full-fee paying students from overseas, and we want to import more educated professionals, but when we have the opportunity to educate our own kids, we get get stuck? Crazy!

Would you prefer your kid to be on the dole or at Uni?

I'd prefer them to stop pretending that they're at Uni. If they are training for a white collar trade, go back to the old model of Colleges of Advanced Education. The best students from there can go to further study/research at Uni.

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Mr Milk said..
I'd prefer them to stop pretending that they're at Uni. If they are training for a white collar trade, go back to the old model of Colleges of Advanced Education. The best students from there can go to further study/research at Uni.

That's before my time. What was a CAE about?

When I was going to school they even tried to introduce a few of us to Uni level maths courses. Not really something you want to do at that age though.

Is TAFE still around or has it been dismantled in favour of private enterprise making a lot of money out of substandard training courses?

CAEs provided training for career entry. They weren't research institutions. Plenty of 6th form leavers went on to study at them for 2 or 3 years in technical fields. They were renamed as Uni's by Dawkins in 1987 or so
Yes, TAFE still exists.

www.tafensw.edu.au/

In NSW, the gov't was organising short low fee TAFE courses as part of the Covid 19 response

Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

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TonyAbbott said..
Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

but for some reason we are importing more people with advanced University educations, and we are advertising our own Unis as 'world class', yet we seem to stop short of letting enough of our own kids go to these world class Unis? What's with that?

Why don't we expand the number of locally funded places, given that we are facing a recession, and spend up where it does some good? 3 years from now we will have a super-motivated and educated workforce ready to work when Covid19 is just a memory.

What is the response though? Let all the school leavers go on the dole and then whine about it? Complain that 'the kids of today are lazy' when there are not enough jobs to go to?

I would rather a kid go do an Arts degree than sit on their arse on the dole and lose ambition. After 1 year of an Arts degree they may discover they have an interest in commerce and move across to that and go do something with that, or maybe they will discover that they have an interest in science?

Its nonsensical to have a looming problem with school leavers and less jobs, yet more actual Uni places available (yet not funded).

At these same Unis, right now, they are calling out that they expect job cuts because of lack of foreign students... you don't need a Uni degree to see how to solve this dilemma.

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TonyAbbott said..
Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

extreme right wing white supremacist like the voters stupid
Example: Trump spewing out as much disinformation, via his many channels, that most people cant work out what is fact or fiction, so allows his fiction to flow through unchecked. Its a pity the Liberal Party in Australia are following his lead.

"Extreme right wing white supremacist"

Fake news

haha that's my point

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FormulaNova said..

TonyAbbott said..
Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

but for some reason we are importing more people with advanced University educations, and we are advertising our own Unis as 'world class', yet we seem to stop short of letting enough of our own kids go to these world class Unis? What's with that?

Why don't we expand the number of locally funded places, given that we are facing a recession, and spend up where it does some good? 3 years from now we will have a super-motivated and educated workforce ready to work when Covid19 is just a memory.

What is the response though? Let all the school leavers go on the dole and then whine about it? Complain that 'the kids of today are lazy' when there are not enough jobs to go to?

I would rather a kid go do an Arts degree than sit on their arse on the dole and lose ambition. After 1 year of an Arts degree they may discover they have an interest in commerce and move across to that and go do something with that, or maybe they will discover that they have an interest in science?

Its nonsensical to have a looming problem with school leavers and less jobs, yet more actual Uni places available (yet not funded).

At these same Unis, right now, they are calling out that they expect job cuts because of lack of foreign students... you don't need a Uni degree to see how to solve this dilemma.

More kids doing arts degrees will not create jobs

We will just have higher educated kids on the dole with a hecs debt

If unis want more students maybe they should have let Bj?rn Lomborg set up his thing here

Or allow courses on Western civilisation

Unis have rejected these, unis have rejected free speech, unis have rejected academic freedom, unis have embraced marxism, China and their own demise.

Time for them to suffer the consequences of their choices

Mr Abbot, when was the last time you stepped foot on a campus of learning? Of any level?

Select to expand quote

TonyAbbott said..

FormulaNova said..

TonyAbbott said..
Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

but for some reason we are importing more people with advanced University educations, and we are advertising our own Unis as 'world class', yet we seem to stop short of letting enough of our own kids go to these world class Unis? What's with that?

Why don't we expand the number of locally funded places, given that we are facing a recession, and spend up where it does some good? 3 years from now we will have a super-motivated and educated workforce ready to work when Covid19 is just a memory.

What is the response though? Let all the school leavers go on the dole and then whine about it? Complain that 'the kids of today are lazy' when there are not enough jobs to go to?

I would rather a kid go do an Arts degree than sit on their arse on the dole and lose ambition. After 1 year of an Arts degree they may discover they have an interest in commerce and move across to that and go do something with that, or maybe they will discover that they have an interest in science?

Its nonsensical to have a looming problem with school leavers and less jobs, yet more actual Uni places available (yet not funded).

At these same Unis, right now, they are calling out that they expect job cuts because of lack of foreign students... you don't need a Uni degree to see how to solve this dilemma.

More kids doing arts degrees will not create jobs

We will just have higher educated kids on the dole with a hecs debt

Do you realise that our government is importing a lot of skilled workers right now (well at least before Covid), with the excuse that we don't have enough here?

We have somehow turned around from labour intensive jobs to technical professional jobs, and we actually need to educate the people to do them and not just hire thousands from India and China. It's no use hiring people from outside while at the same time complaining that the kids here are without jobs!

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Brent in Qld said..
Mr Abbot, when was the last time you stepped foot on a campus of learning? Of any level?

Yeah, I think he thinks its a 'commie training camp'!

From my experience having worked at a Uni for 5 years, you do have those sort of personalities, but you only notice them because they seem to be the sort that are more visible on campus and hang around the Uni bar more. The majority of people at Uni just get on with things, study, attend lectures and tutorials, and then go back to work or home.

The long term uni student disappeared about 1990 when HECS made it too expensive to just do the same degree for 10 years.

I think if the government sponsored (scholarships) the right courses that are needed, as apposed to the ones kids want to do, then the take rate of those scholarships would not be huge.

As for skills shortages, I have no idea what the percentage is but we lack plenty of skills that require hard graft, as well as tradesmen. Where I live it's easier to see a doctor or a surgeon than it is to get a plumber around to quote a job.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

TonyAbbott said..

FormulaNova said..

TonyAbbott said..
Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

but for some reason we are importing more people with advanced University educations, and we are advertising our own Unis as 'world class', yet we seem to stop short of letting enough of our own kids go to these world class Unis? What's with that?

Why don't we expand the number of locally funded places, given that we are facing a recession, and spend up where it does some good? 3 years from now we will have a super-motivated and educated workforce ready to work when Covid19 is just a memory.

What is the response though? Let all the school leavers go on the dole and then whine about it? Complain that 'the kids of today are lazy' when there are not enough jobs to go to?

I would rather a kid go do an Arts degree than sit on their arse on the dole and lose ambition. After 1 year of an Arts degree they may discover they have an interest in commerce and move across to that and go do something with that, or maybe they will discover that they have an interest in science?

Its nonsensical to have a looming problem with school leavers and less jobs, yet more actual Uni places available (yet not funded).

At these same Unis, right now, they are calling out that they expect job cuts because of lack of foreign students... you don't need a Uni degree to see how to solve this dilemma.

More kids doing arts degrees will not create jobs

We will just have higher educated kids on the dole with a hecs debt

Do you realise that our government is importing a lot of skilled workers right now (well at least before Covid), with the excuse that we don't have enough here?

We have somehow turned around from labour intensive jobs to technical professional jobs, and we actually need to educate the people to do them and not just hire thousands from India and China. It's no use hiring people from outside while at the same time complaining that the kids here are without jobs!

I've heard it's hard to get the mix right from locals only. You have to predict several years in advance and then somehow convince kids to study the right things. On top of that, things like engineering can be unpopular and you can't get enough qualified stidents to study it. Things like law or feminist studies are a lot more fashionaable. Thus, importing a few skilled people is the best solution.

Select to expand quote

KiteWindnSurf said..

FormulaNova said..

TonyAbbott said..

FormulaNova said..

TonyAbbott said..
Society does not need more people with Masters of Feminist Science qualifications

but for some reason we are importing more people with advanced University educations, and we are advertising our own Unis as 'world class', yet we seem to stop short of letting enough of our own kids go to these world class Unis? What's with that?

Why don't we expand the number of locally funded places, given that we are facing a recession, and spend up where it does some good? 3 years from now we will have a super-motivated and educated workforce ready to work when Covid19 is just a memory.

What is the response though? Let all the school leavers go on the dole and then whine about it? Complain that 'the kids of today are lazy' when there are not enough jobs to go to?

I would rather a kid go do an Arts degree than sit on their arse on the dole and lose ambition. After 1 year of an Arts degree they may discover they have an interest in commerce and move across to that and go do something with that, or maybe they will discover that they have an interest in science?

Its nonsensical to have a looming problem with school leavers and less jobs, yet more actual Uni places available (yet not funded).

At these same Unis, right now, they are calling out that they expect job cuts because of lack of foreign students... you don't need a Uni degree to see how to solve this dilemma.

More kids doing arts degrees will not create jobs

We will just have higher educated kids on the dole with a hecs debt

Do you realise that our government is importing a lot of skilled workers right now (well at least before Covid), with the excuse that we don't have enough here?

We have somehow turned around from labour intensive jobs to technical professional jobs, and we actually need to educate the people to do them and not just hire thousands from India and China. It's no use hiring people from outside while at the same time complaining that the kids here are without jobs!

I've heard it's hard to get the mix right from locals only. You have to predict several years in advance and then somehow convince kids to study the right things. On top of that, things like engineering can be unpopular and you can't get enough qualified stidents to study it. Things like law or feminist studies are a lot more fashionaable. Thus, importing a few skilled people is the best solution.

Have you thought about why you can't get many kids to study engineering? It's not fashion, its the chance of getting a job when you have finished your 3 or 4 years. Would you study this if you thought you wouldn't get a job at the end of it?

I am not sure the personality type for a lawyer would be the same as an engineer, so I don't know if many people make that choice between the two.

Unsurprisingly, lawyers don't appear to be on the skilled immigration list.

Select to expand quote

kk said..
I think if the government sponsored (scholarships) the right courses that are needed, as apposed to the ones kids want to do, then the take rate of those scholarships would not be huge.

As for skills shortages, I have no idea what the percentage is but we lack plenty of skills that require hard graft, as well as tradesmen. Where I live it's easier to see a doctor or a surgeon than it is to get a plumber around to quote a job.

I am still a bit shocked that hairdressers are/were on the skilled shortage list. Hairdressers? really? Where are those people working that they prefer to hairdressing?

My cynical view is that the hairdressers needed are the ones that are subserviant and will accept a pittance of a wage so that the boss can make a bit of money. Solution; just import the cheaper ones.

I know a bit about hairdressers in my local area, I have a tenant who owns a beauty and hair salon, she is forever looking for new hair dressers who work for her and stay until they get pregnant and rarely return to the industry.

Select to expand quote

kk said..
I know a bit about hairdressers in my local area, I have a tenant who owns a beauty and hair salon, she is forever looking for new hair dressers who work for her and stay until they get pregnant and rarely return to the industry.

I had the local vet tell me the same thing with respect to vets. What's the answer? Only employ males or make them promise not to have kids?

I was suggesting to the vet that he should change the way he operates and let these vets work in schedules that fitted in with school times and fill in the rest of the time with other vets. I don't know if it would work, but he seemed stuck in last century and I couldn't help but think that he needed to change his business as his problem was not going to go away.

If we are short of hairdressers, you would think their wages would go up to reflect this scarcity, and then it would draw more people into the industry.

if on the other hand you flood the market with cheap imported people, then school leavers will not go into hairdressing as they will see there is an oversupply.

We obviously are short of hairdressers. Why else would so many men shave their heads?

The skilled worker importing thingy is gamed to get cheap workers in. Not always, but often.

I'm not allowed onto uni campuses anymore. My talks always get cancelled due to threats of marxists violence, and that's just the staff, the students are even worse.

Unis need to cancel cancel culture.

Marxist violence or violence by marxists Tony?
overseas lawyers have no Australian law qualifications, similar for overseas doctors, overseas engineers however count because they can count, Indian /Chinese engineers a lot cheaper than Aussie engineers

morningmail.org/300-chinese-student-to-be-flown-in-to-Canberra/

18.06.20. The shrill cries from universities finding their lucrative cash-cow China, via their flood of students required to pay the outrageous salaries of administrators, is being heard by government-at great expense to whom may we get the truth?
More than 300 foreign students from different countries are set to be flown into Canberra next month and quarantined in hotels to revive Australia's hammered international education sector. In a national first, the University of Canberra and the Australian National University will organise a hub flight from an international airport - with Singapore among several options - to Canberra Airport late next month for postgraduate, honours and final-year undergraduate foreign students. Source: Richard Ferguson, News Corp University of Canberra and Australian National University fly in 300 foreign students The universities' pilot program for bringing back foreign students has been given the green-light by ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr and praised by Prime Minister Scott Morrison, giving Canberra a head start in re-energising universities post-coronavirus.
"We need to do these things safely, we have to be very considerate of the appropriate quarantine measures," Mr Barr said on Wednesday.
"We think they can be safely managed . we'll do a pilot, we'll assess it. The universities are our largest export industries and employers in our cities."
University of Canberra vice-chancellor Paddy Nixon said the plan showed the commitment of Australian universities to foreign students and provided an assurance they would have as much face-to-face teaching on campus as possible.
"It's no accident that we're moving ahead with this as we're able to do more face-to-face learning with small tutes and labs - the sort of lessons that our postgraduate and honours students spend most of their time doing," he told The Australian.?"At UC, we have about 400 such students overseas and we'll now go to them and find out if they want to come back to campus and how best we can get them here . It'll be a single hub point but they will be students from different countries.
"We are one of the safest cities in one of the safest nations in the world and we are pulling out all stops to welcome back our continuing international students."
The ACT and South Australia are leading the nation in getting international students back to Australia, with national cabinet approving plans to move towards getting small batches of foreign pupils back by July. NSW, Victoria and Queensland are also developing pilot programs.
Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy is working with both universities to develop their testing and quarantine procedures, The Australian understands.
ANU vice-chancellor Brian Schmidt said that while the students will need to be quarantined for two weeks in hotels - with costs to be divided between students, the universities, and the ACT government - they will be learning from the minute they land.
"We have a whole academic and pastoral program set up so they won't be sitting in hotels idly," he said.
"And coming out, they will find an ANU which is open for teaching . We're not making any money out of these students coming from overseas. They are all paying fees already. This is us following through our commitment to them over the years.
"For new students thinking about coming in 2021, this program will show Australia is very safe when it comes to coronavirus and we do everything we can to support our students."

Select to expand quote

TonyAbbott said..
The skilled worker importing thingy is gamed to get cheap workers in. Not always, but often.

I'm not allowed onto uni campuses anymore. My talks always get cancelled due to threats of marxists violence, and that's just the staff, the students are even worse.

Unis need to cancel cancel culture.

Predictable political beat up as a response and in true political style, avoids answering the simplest of questions with redirection & humbug. Well I suppose the unis got one thing right, they cancelled your 'talks'.

It seems that degrees are going to be repriced

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/cost-of-priority-degrees-to-be-slashed-some-fees-to-soar-in-funding-overhaul-20200618-p553t5.html

But the government is picking winners, which I thought the Libs are opposed to, as a matter of principle. Why don't they want people studying law and literature? Are they afraid that their decisions will be scrutinised by young motivated trained and qualified activists?

The idea of bringing in overseas students and quarantining them is a good one, or at least worth trying first.

Hopefully the quarantine period is enough to keep Covid19 out. As long as they don't cheap it out and allow people to quarantine together and allow it to pass back and forth between people in isolation.

Our Unis are geared to require a certain number of full fee paying students. I am worried though that this seems to have become a major industry rather than a minor one.

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..
It seems that degrees are going to be repriced

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/cost-of-priority-degrees-to-be-slashed-some-fees-to-soar-in-funding-overhaul-20200618-p553t5.html

But the government is picking winners, which I thought the Libs are opposed to, as a matter of principle. Why don't they want people studying law and literature? Are they afraid that their decisions will be scrutinised by young motivated trained and qualified activists?

No so much picking winners as funding job ready courses where they've got a reasonable chance of getting their HECS loan back instead of funding divisive grievance courses without future job prospects.

Select to expand quote

Brent in Qld said..

TonyAbbott said..
The skilled worker importing thingy is gamed to get cheap workers in. Not always, but often.

I'm not allowed onto uni campuses anymore. My talks always get cancelled due to threats of marxists violence, and that's just the staff, the students are even worse.

Unis need to cancel cancel culture.

Predictable political beat up as a response and in true political style, avoids answering the simplest of questions with redirection & humbug. Well I suppose the unis got one thing right, they cancelled your 'talks'.

Do you have a question?

Select to expand quote

TonyAbbott said..
The skilled worker importing thingy is gamed to get cheap workers in. Not always, but often.

I'm not allowed onto uni campuses anymore. My talks always get cancelled due to threats of marxists violence, and that's just the staff, the students are even worse.

Unis need to cancel cancel culture.

Maybe they're just sh!t talks

Select to expand quote

TonyAbbott said..

Brent in Qld said..

TonyAbbott said..
The skilled worker importing thingy is gamed to get cheap workers in. Not always, but often.

I'm not allowed onto uni campuses anymore. My talks always get cancelled due to threats of marxists violence, and that's just the staff, the students are even worse.

Unis need to cancel cancel culture.

Predictable political beat up as a response and in true political style, avoids answering the simplest of questions with redirection & humbug. Well I suppose the unis got one thing right, they cancelled your 'talks'.

Do you have a question?

Dear Mr Abbott,

I formally apologize and admit the original question would have been easily misunderstood. With hindsight it appeared highly complex with confusing overlaps of time, place & memory requiring detailed interpretation. But I digress, let me put forward the original question in its fundamental form.

When was the last time you stepped foot on a campus of learning? Of any level?

Kind regards

Brent in Qld