It goes without saying there are only two genders.

'When I transitioned at 69, I thought I'd die never knowing "true love" - I was wrong' (msn.com)

You think of yourself as a thoughtful, insightful man, try this idea on for size: accept people as they are and get on with your own life story.

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Shifu said..
You think of yourself as a thoughtful, insightful man, try this idea on for size: accept people as they are and get on with your own life story.

... and be grateful that you don't feel trapped in the wrong body. I have sympathy for people that go through this as nothing about it would be easy.

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FormulaNova said..

Shifu said..
You think of yourself as a thoughtful, insightful man, try this idea on for size: accept people as they are and get on with your own life story.

... and be grateful that you don't feel trapped in the wrong body. I have sympathy for people that go through this as nothing about it would be easy.

I agree that its a real thing in a small percentage of cases, and its always been around, and for those people its a hard thing. But what we have today is some mass hysteria BS.

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myusernam said..

FormulaNova said..

Shifu said..
You think of yourself as a thoughtful, insightful man, try this idea on for size: accept people as they are and get on with your own life story.

... and be grateful that you don't feel trapped in the wrong body. I have sympathy for people that go through this as nothing about it would be easy.

I agree that its a real thing in a small percentage of cases, and its always been around, and for those people its a hard thing. But what we have today is some mass hysteria BS.

There's still only a tiny fraction of the population who experience this.

The vast majority of the hysteria comes from people who refuse to accept these cases and are dead set against them getting appropriate help and treatment

It's frikkin hilarious that an American political strategy to freak out their base and win votes is being talked about in Australia as something that matters. Less than 1000th of 1% of the population doesn't deserve this much angst. Unless you're the richest man in the world, you're more likely to win the lottery than have a personal connection to someone who is transgender.

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philn said..
Unless you're the richest man in the world, you're more likely to win the lottery than have a personal connection to someone who is transgender.

Dont worry matey you dont need to win the lotto when theyres always thailand. you only have to be the richest man in the club to have a personal connection to someone who is transgender over there.
Dont let your dreams be dreams tell the misses its just a windsurfing clinic

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D3 said..

The vast majority of the hysteria comes from people who refuse to accept these cases and are dead set against them getting appropriate help and treatment

Do you find that? I will have to admit I have not seen much or anything from anyone on that issue at all.

What I see is many rejecting the notion biological males have the right use female spaces, participate in female sport and generally assume the right to do whatever they feel is the right thing for them, no matter how it impacts the rights of others, mainly females. I don't see anyone arguing about biological females being able to use male bathrooms or compete in male sports.

Affording one group rights whilst trampling all over the rights of another group is tyranny of the minority. Forcing people to use a persons preferred pronouns by law under penalty of prosecution is the stuff straight out of 1984. Pronouns are offered by curtesy in a polite society, not forced at gunpoint.

It is a complex issue, (especially when kids get involved) and the vast majority of people will afford others due respect, but when the demands start to trample over long held and hard won rights of others there will be push back. I don't get why many don't see this.

Paradox, do you know any trans people? As Phil said, the media love a beat up. Less than 1% of the population are Trans, a minuscule amount of those are trying to compete in sport but the headlines create mass hysteria.
If you don't know any Trans people then how are you affected? Shows how small the problem really is.
Don't believe the hype.

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Paradox said..

D3 said..

The vast majority of the hysteria comes from people who refuse to accept these cases and are dead set against them getting appropriate help and treatment

Do you find that? I will have to admit I have not seen much or anything from anyone on that issue at all.

What I see is many rejecting the notion biological males have the right use female spaces, participate in female sport and generally assume the right to do whatever they feel is the right thing for them, no matter how it impacts the rights of others, mainly females. I don't see anyone arguing about biological females being able to use male bathrooms or compete in male sports.

Affording one group rights whilst trampling all over the rights of another group is tyranny of the minority. Forcing people to use a persons preferred pronouns by law under penalty of prosecution is the stuff straight out of 1984. Pronouns are offered by curtesy in a polite society, not forced at gunpoint.

It is a complex issue, (especially when kids get involved) and the vast majority of people will afford others due respect, but when the demands start to trample over long held and hard won rights of others there will be push back. I don't get why many don't see this.

I don't see much either, but what little I do see can be characterized by pcdefenders' posts on the topic.

Just look at all those "funny images" and you'll see there is trend amongst a few regular posters here targeting people who are "other" for abuse and ridicule.

They seem to be losing their minds because Ellen Page now wants to be called Elliot Page.


And agreed that integrating trans-people in to society better is complex issue. Particularly in areas where physical attributes can have a large impact.

Sports are a prime example of where there is a lot work to be done to ensure that competition is fair for all while still providing (the extremely tiny percentage) trans athletes an avenue for participation that doesn't discriminate unfairly.
There's no right answer that has been found yet, but we shouldn't just give up because it's too hard .

But instead of having a reasonable discussion about it, certain people try to spread fear and spruik worst case scenarios before resorting to memes and ridicule.

All in the hopes that these people with uncomfortable pronouns will just shut up and stop asking for recognition for who they are.

Like you said, it's complex, but people who spread fear and hate are supporting and promoting the attitudes that result in LGBT people being the victims of violence at much higher rates than their peers.

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westozwind said..
If you don't know any Trans people then how are you affected?

I don't know anyone who owns a firearm, but society says they really shouldn't.

I still support gun control.

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westozwind said..
Paradox, do you know any trans people? As Phil said, the media love a beat up. Less than 1% of the population are Trans, a minuscule amount of those are trying to compete in sport but the headlines create mass hysteria.
If you don't know any Trans people then how are you affected? Shows how small the problem really is.
Don't believe the hype.

You seem to be suggesting trans people are the problem. I have no issue with trans people and empathise with thier struggles.

It is not actually about the small number of trans people and how they want to live thier lives, it is the forced changes to societal norms to supposedly cater for this small amount of people that is the issue. It is about laws and precedents being made that are the concern and what effects me. If you listened to what people are saying rather than "buying the hype" yourself you would understand this.

There is considerable amount of online censorship laws that are being put in place that are based on the premise that words are violence. Among that is the concept that anyone who claims there are only two biological genders is harming others and are censored or deplatformed, despite this being a prevailing medical view since time began. There is a censorship bill in parliment right now relating to this. This effects me. Censorship on reasonable debate is only ever installed by regimes that ultimately do significant evil, history is clear.

I have children, there are many instances where anyone who identifies as a female in thier mind can enter traditional safe spaces for women and girls. including lockerooms and change areas. Are you good with that? Sorry but that effects me.

The allowance of males to compete in female sport is unfair, and yes that effects me.

There are supposedly advanced countries where there are laws that force people to use the preferred pronouns of others. That is worse than the censorship laws and yes if not pushed back on will be rolled out here and elsewhere. That effects me.

It is not the personal lives of trans people that effect me. People are free and have the right to live thier lives in peace and freedom. It is the ideology that we must all be forced to adjust our lives and give up our freedoms in significant ways to cater for what others think that is the problem.

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Paradox said..

westozwind said..
Paradox, do you know any trans people? As Phil said, the media love a beat up. Less than 1% of the population are Trans, a minuscule amount of those are trying to compete in sport but the headlines create mass hysteria.
If you don't know any Trans people then how are you affected? Shows how small the problem really is.
Don't believe the hype.

You seem to be suggesting trans people are the problem. I have no issue with trans people and empathise with thier struggles.

It is not actually about the small number of trans people and how they want to live thier lives, it is the forced changes to societal norms to supposedly cater for this small amount of people that is the issue. It is about laws and precedents being made that are the concern and what effects me. If you listened to what people are saying rather than "buying the hype" yourself you would understand this.

There is considerable amount of online censorship laws that are being put in place that are based on the premise that words are violence. Among that is the concept that anyone who claims there are only two biological genders is harming others and are censored or deplatformed, despite this being a prevailing medical view since time began. There is a censorship bill in parliment right now relating to this. This effects me. Censorship on reasonable debate is only ever installed by regimes that ultimately do significant evil, history is clear.

I have children, there are many instances where anyone who identifies as a female in thier mind can enter traditional safe spaces for women and girls. including lockerooms and change areas. Are you good with that? Sorry but that effects me.

The allowance of males to compete in female sport is unfair, and yes that effects me.

There are supposedly advanced countries where there are laws that force people to use the preferred pronouns of others. That is worse than the censorship laws and yes if not pushed back on will be rolled out here and elsewhere. That effects me.

It is not the personal lives of trans people that effect me. People are free and have the right to live thier lives in peace and freedom. It is the ideology that we must all be forced to adjust our lives and give up our freedoms in significant ways to cater for what others think that is the problem.

Please enlighten us on what particular freedoms you will have to give up?

Am I the only that saw the title of this thread and just assumed it was a question about retireing?
Whatever the topic, at 70 it's time to jump in and do it.

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Paradox


You seem to be suggesting trans people are the problem. I have no issue with trans people and empathise with thier struggles.

It is not actually about the small number of trans people and how they want to live thier lives, it is the forced changes to societal norms to supposedly cater for this small amount of people that is the issue. It is about laws and precedents being made that are the concern and what effects me. If you listened to what people are saying rather than "buying the hype" yourself you would understand this.


I have children, there are many instances where anyone who identifies as a female in thier mind can enter traditional safe spaces for women and girls. including lockerooms and change areas. Are you good with that? Sorry but that effects me.


It is not the personal lives of trans people that effect me. People are free and have the right to live thier lives in peace and freedom. It is the ideology that we must all be forced to adjust our lives and give up our freedoms in significant ways to cater for what others think that is the problem.

So where are trans women supposed to get changed?
Or is because someone identities as a woman they are somehow now a threat to other women?

Are you saying trans people are the problem? (You said they aren't but it sounds like you think they are)

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sgo said..
Am I the only that saw the title of this thread and just assumed it was a question about retireing?
Whatever the topic, at 70 it's time to jump in and do it.

I thought PM33 had decided to take up kiting.

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D3 said..

Paradox


You seem to be suggesting trans people are the problem. I have no issue with trans people and empathise with thier struggles.

It is not actually about the small number of trans people and how they want to live thier lives, it is the forced changes to societal norms to supposedly cater for this small amount of people that is the issue. It is about laws and precedents being made that are the concern and what effects me. If you listened to what people are saying rather than "buying the hype" yourself you would understand this.


I have children, there are many instances where anyone who identifies as a female in thier mind can enter traditional safe spaces for women and girls. including lockerooms and change areas. Are you good with that? Sorry but that effects me.


It is not the personal lives of trans people that effect me. People are free and have the right to live thier lives in peace and freedom. It is the ideology that we must all be forced to adjust our lives and give up our freedoms in significant ways to cater for what others think that is the problem.

So where are trans women supposed to get changed?
Or is because someone identities as a woman they are somehow now a threat to other women?

Are you saying trans people are the problem? (You said they aren't but it sounds like you think they are)

The same place the parents have to use with their babies, the disabled toilets. It's not an insult, it's what society can afford at the moment.

Teacher sacked for telling children that LGBT practices are sinful (msn.com)




Ateacher is facing a 'fitness to practise' hearing after refusing to teach LGBT material, claiming it was incompatible with her religious beliefs.Glawdys Leger, 43, was dismissed from her post teaching modern foreign languages at Bishop Justus CofE school in Bromley, south London, last May.

She says this is because she refused to teach LGBT material on the religious education syllabus to year 7 pupils.

Ms Leger, who had taught at the school since 2017, told pupils that she believed LGBT practices are 'sinful' and that humans are born either male or female.

She was reported to the Teaching Regulation Agency (TRA) as she had allegedly upset a pupil with her views

.Ms Leger now faces being banned from the teaching profession indefinitely as a 'fitness to practise' hearing is set to begin in Coventry today, MailOnline reports.

Ahead of the hearing, she said: 'The impact of what has happened to me has taken a great toll on me. The thought of me losing my career for expressing my Christian beliefs in response to questions from students is heartbreaking.'I was treated like a criminal and as though I was a danger for expressing my Christian beliefs.

'I have great compassion for LGBT people, especially for those suffering from gender confusion.'I cannot, however, in good conscience teach or say things I believe are contrary to my faith, for example saying that same sex sexual relationships are good and/or affirming people in their gender confusion.'

This is thought to be the first time a TRA case against a teacher at a Church of England school has progressed to a full hearing.

Ms Leger says she took particular issue with introducing children to the concept of gender and sexual identities such as pansexual, asexual, intersex, and transgender.

The syllabus for religious education also included the suggestion that people could be 'born in the wrong body', and encouraged children to have 'allyship' for queer people.

She was also against the promotion of critical race theory and abortion.A spokesman for the Aquinas Church of England Education Trust said: 'Delivering a high-quality education and supporting the wellbeing of students is our top priority.

'To ensure this is achieved, we promote fundamental British values including mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs, as part of a broad and balanced curriculum.'

The school teaches in line with statutory requirements to promote British values and follows relevant guidance outlined by the Department for Education.'Given the ongoing investigation, and sensitivities involved, it would not be appropriate to comment any further.'

Telling somebody they are sinful would have to be the real sin!

If they said, "it's my belief, you are sinful," (because of my religious indoctrination), that wouldn't be quite as bad.

Total beat up. She is employed to deliver a curriculum. She didn't do it. Sshe was fired for not doing her job. NOT because she was a Christian, but because she didn't carry out the duties assigned to her for which she gets paid in return. Unlike Christian (or other religious) schools that terminate the employment of teachers who DO deliver the required curriculum (e.g. mathematics, or chemistry, or whatever) who just happen to be gay, bi, trans, or whatever, in their life outside of work -- because their private life style is "incompatible" with the ethos of their employer.

that's a whole shop of them in Perth

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decrepit said..
(because of my religious indoctrination)

Me too

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D3 said..

So where are trans women supposed to get changed?
Or is because someone identities as a woman they are somehow now a threat to other women?

Are you saying trans people are the problem? (You said they aren't but it sounds like you think they are)

That is a good question. Again, this is not about trans people in particular, it is about the rights of biological women.

The reality is that if any Male can identify as trans, there is no test except what someone says they feel.

If we refer to the case of Lia Thomas in the US, one of the biggest issues was the fact Lia was a 6ft2, fully endowed Male who was allowed to change with the other school girls in the girls locker room. That is not acceptable in any way or form and it is not an isolated case.

This is not about Lia's rights, it is about the rights of others who were trampled in the rush to give Lia rights. The answer to the first question is anywhere Lia wants, provided it is not the womens locker room. Find a solution that doesn't effect others.

As for the second statement you have it wrong. If any male can claim to be a trans woman then yes it will open up the opportunity for significnt threats to women if this is allowed to continue. Or do you think it cannot be abused by those with sinister motives?

Again I am not saying trans people are a problem, I am saying the trampling of the rights of others is.

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D3 said..

Please enlighten us on what particular freedoms you will have to give up?

The right to freely express my opinion without being censored.

The right for my children and wife to feel safe in what should a supposedly safe place.

The right to address people with the pronouns I choose without fear of prosecution by the state.

Again, this is not about trans people, it is about the Authoritarian response forcing people to comply with idiological identity politics.

This is all happening and what people are pushing back against. It is not about the right of trans people to exist and live in freedom, despite you deperately trying to make it out that way.

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Paradox said..

D3 said..

So where are trans women supposed to get changed?
Or is because someone identities as a woman they are somehow now a threat to other women?

Are you saying trans people are the problem? (You said they aren't but it sounds like you think they are)

That is a good question. Again, this is not about trans people in particular, it is about the rights of biological women.

The reality is that if any Male can identify as trans, there is no test except what someone says they feel.

If we refer to the case of Lia Thomas in the US, one of the biggest issues was the fact Lia was a 6ft2, fully endowed Male who was allowed to change with the other school girls in the girls locker room. That is not acceptable in any way or form and it is not an isolated case.

This is not about Lia's rights, it is about the rights of others who were trampled in the rush to give Lia rights. The answer to the first question is anywhere Lia wants, provided it is not the womens locker room. Find a solution that doesn't effect others.

As for the second statement you have it wrong. If any male can claim to be a trans woman then yes it will open up the opportunity for significnt threats to women if this is allowed to continue. Or do you think it cannot be abused by those with sinister motives?

Again I am not saying trans people are a problem, I am saying the trampling of the rights of others is.

This is what I mean, your using information close the truth to try scaremonger.

Lia wasn't a bloke who just decided to compete in women's swimming. She is someone who suffered gender dysphoria (diagnosed) as an adult, underwent hormone replacement treatment before returning to swimming as a woman in adult competition, not school girl competition.

I put it to you that there has never been anything stopping anyone from pretending to be a woman and enter changing rooms for sinister purposes. Not sure why you'd think that accommodating Trans women is going to make other women less safe?



Also it's not censorship to be asked to respect someone's desire to be addressed in a certain way. Deliberately addressing or calling people by a name or pronoun that they have asked you not to use may not be considered "freedom of speech" but potentially bullying. Refer to all the progress we've made in the workplace to reduce bullying and hazing of apprentices, it makes a big impact on someone's mental health if you consistently use derogatory or insulting language.

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D3 said..

Paradox said..

D3 said..

So where are trans women supposed to get changed?
Or is because someone identities as a woman they are somehow now a threat to other women?

Are you saying trans people are the problem? (You said they aren't but it sounds like you think they are)

That is a good question. Again, this is not about trans people in particular, it is about the rights of biological women.

The reality is that if any Male can identify as trans, there is no test except what someone says they feel.

If we refer to the case of Lia Thomas in the US, one of the biggest issues was the fact Lia was a 6ft2, fully endowed Male who was allowed to change with the other school girls in the girls locker room. That is not acceptable in any way or form and it is not an isolated case.

This is not about Lia's rights, it is about the rights of others who were trampled in the rush to give Lia rights. The answer to the first question is anywhere Lia wants, provided it is not the womens locker room. Find a solution that doesn't effect others.

As for the second statement you have it wrong. If any male can claim to be a trans woman then yes it will open up the opportunity for significnt threats to women if this is allowed to continue. Or do you think it cannot be abused by those with sinister motives?

Again I am not saying trans people are a problem, I am saying the trampling of the rights of others is.

This is what I mean, your using information close the truth to try scaremonger.

Lia wasn't a bloke who just decided to compete in women's swimming. She is someone who suffered gender dysphoria (diagnosed) as an adult, underwent hormone replacement treatment before returning to swimming as a woman in adult competition, not school girl competition.

I put it to you that there has never been anything stopping anyone from pretending to be a woman and enter changing rooms for sinister purposes. Not sure why you'd think that accommodating Trans women is going to make other women less safe?



Also it's not censorship to be asked to respect someone's desire to be addressed in a certain way. Deliberately addressing or calling people by a name or pronoun that they have asked you not to use may not be considered "freedom of speech" but potentially bullying. Refer to all the progress we've made in the workplace to reduce bullying and hazing of apprentices, it makes a big impact on someone's mental health if you consistently use derogatory or insulting language.

Blah blah blah...still a freak

Who supports an adult male call they have whatever dysphoria and accept they belong in the same locker room as young girls are totally nuts as well.
Finally some common sense is been reestablished (like banning that freak from competing w females). Open a Freak category or compete against males like his chromosomes still tell who he is (DNA testing in his tomb 2,000 yrs will still call him a male).

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Paradox said..

If we refer to the case of Lia Thomas in the US, one of the biggest issues was the fact Lia was a 6ft2, fully endowed Male who was allowed to change with the other school girls in the girls locker room.

Until she chops her dick off, after that I have no problem with her being in the same changing room as my daughter.

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D3 said..

This is what I mean, your using information close the truth to try scaremonger.

Lia wasn't a bloke who just decided to compete in women's swimming. She is someone who suffered gender dysphoria (diagnosed) as an adult, underwent hormone replacement treatment before returning to swimming as a woman in adult competition, not school girl competition.

It was university (school is a university term in US) competition and irrespective of anything else, yes Lia is a biological male who decided to compete in Womens swimming. Taking HRT does not negate the fact Lia is a 6ft4 (had to check that) biological male, has a body that was developed as a male, and has full male genetalia. I will note that Lia and other biological males have now been banned from the womens swiming competition.

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D3 said.. I put it to you that there has never been anything stopping anyone from pretending to be a woman and enter changing rooms for sinister purposes. Not sure why you'd think that accommodating Trans women is going to make other women less safe?

Are you suggesting a male entering a womens change room by deception for whatever reason is the same as a University supporting the practice and not only ignoring the complaints by a large number of females (forcing many of them to change elsewhere), but also forcing them to attend attitude adjustment training to try to make them more tolerant of the 6ft4 male with penis getting changed next to them??

You are deluded.

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D3 said.. Also it's not censorship to be asked to respect someone's desire to be addressed in a certain way. Deliberately addressing or calling people by a name or pronoun that they have asked you not to use may not be considered "freedom of speech" but potentially bullying. Refer to all the progress we've made in the workplace to reduce bullying and hazing of apprentices, it makes a big impact on someone's mental health if you consistently use derogatory or insulting language.

Again you are misrepresenting the issue. Asking for and recieving respect from people is an individuals right, as it is to give it where warranted. Social politeness is necessary for everyone to exist in peace and harmony.

My comments were the use of state level punative measures to enforce it. Laws to enforce it, deplatforming people who are being respectful but have an opinion you don't like. Do you agree people should be arrested and charged if they do not call someone by thier preferred pronouns? Sacked? Have thier social platforms removed? This is what is happening.

Should I be banned from this site because my opinions expressed here might be interpreted as hate speech by you or others?

What if someone's pronouns are offensive to you? How do you address that?

Now I just feel like she's fat shaming me. I'm also 6'1 but a muscular 91 kg. Time to stop lifting weights and start doing cardio!

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philn said..
Now I just feel like she's fat shaming me. I'm also 6'1 but a muscular 91 kg. Time to stop lifting weights and start doing cardio!

Maybe that proves he is a real woman.

Lies about their weight.

To prove it one way or another, try asking about their age, then watch them try to park a car and finally ask about their relationship status at 1am in nightclub after 6 Bacardi breezers.

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Carantoc said..

philn said..
Now I just feel like she's fat shaming me. I'm also 6'1 but a muscular 91 kg. Time to stop lifting weights and start doing cardio!

Maybe that proves he is a real woman.

Lies about their weight.

To prove it one way or another, try asking about their age, then watch them try to park a car and finally ask about their relationship status at 1am in nightclub after 6 Bacardi breezers.

Yeah seems 6'1" is correct. Weight is apparently 85kg.

Not a chance at 60kg. Complete lie. This is a 5"5" 60kg female.