no video sorry... just a curious question.
Most of us have no idea how to fight against another human being.
Oh but it's oh so easy to shoot at someone, and hence why the world is so fooked right now with the death and misery especially around civilians and children.
But if you managed to get some of these so called 'heroes' of war to actually fight each other hand to hand, they would probably flee crying to mama.
My question... in an emergency or a fight or flight situation, and if you had to fight to survive, do you know how?
I have ideas, but they are based on ego, movies and slow motion shots!
seriously, I have no idea.

I had a buddy whose theory was "punch them in the throat and leg it".

It's actually rather hard to hit things with a pistol unless you are trained.

What would be the point of having a pistol if you didn't learn to use it ?

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DanozDirect said..
no video sorry... just a curious question.
Most of us have no idea how to fight against another human being.
Oh but it's oh so easy to shoot at someone, and hence why the world is so fooked right now with the death and misery especially around civilians and children.
But if you managed to get some of these so called 'heroes' of war to actually fight each other hand to hand, they would probably flee crying to mama.
My question... in an emergency or a fight or flight situation, and if you had to fight to survive, do you know how?
I have ideas, but they are based on ego, movies and slow motion shots!
seriously, I have no idea.

Theres various types of fighting I guess.
Theres that drunken idiot at the pub that is just a d!ck, and starts a fight, and you end up having to defend yourself, if you manage to get a good punch in that knocks him to the ground, that's generally it. You don't go kerb stomping him after he is knocked down unless your some roided up douche. You shouldn't be looking to seriously injure the guy, just defend yourself and shut down the situation.
.
Then there is someone attacking you, attempting to seriously wound or even kill you/your partner/your child for what ever reason. This would be a different type of fighting. Where I would never think about a kick in the nuts or eye gouging the idiot at the pub, in this circumstance - no worries. This is more fight for survival. The kind of fight where anything I can reach with my hand that's nearby, I'm going to attempt to smash through your skull with 200% force, and chances of a kerbstomp after would be high. That said, submission fighting is a pretty relatively non violent way of confidently defending yourself. Many ways to put someone to sleep without actually hurting them at all.

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DanozDirect said..
no video sorry... just a curious question.
Most of us have no idea how to fight against another human being.
Oh but it's oh so easy to shoot at someone, and hence why the world is so fooked right now with the death and misery especially around civilians and children.
But if you managed to get some of these so called 'heroes' of war to actually fight each other hand to hand, they would probably flee crying to mama.
My question... in an emergency or a fight or flight situation, and if you had to fight to survive, do you know how?
I have ideas, but they are based on ego, movies and slow motion shots!
seriously, I have no idea.

I was doing martial arts classes for a very short time, and I opted for one on one lessons, and part of that was getting used to being hit and 'self-defense' moves (aka dirty moves).

Unlike the movies, a lot of things are hard to do, and getting hit in the wrong area really hurts. It does help not being scared by the thought of getting hit though, as someplaces don't matter so much. In a real fight, with no rules, it probably won't go for long though.

On the other hand, I used a pistol at the Perth shooting range, and accuracy is not that easy. I can understand why they tell police to aim at the body, as its hard enough in a calm comfortable situation, let alone fighting for your life.

Hand guns

Most fights turn into wrestling matches, if you're not big you better learn some karate type dirty tricks. Then again a little karate man can usually be body slammed by a much larger man. Best to diffuse situations with humor.

That's photoshopped for sure!

There are only two things in my backyard Gym:
a pull up bar and......


a heavy bag

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Beaglebuddy said...
It's actually rather hard to hit things with a pistol unless you are trained.

Balls. U just have to hold it sideways. Gangsta style

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Beaglebuddy said..
It's actually rather hard to hit things with a pistol unless you are trained.

I have been trying to learn a bit about PTSD, and understand how it develops and is hopefully beaten [a few mates are sufferers]

Recently, I read a book "On Killing", written by a USA military officer.
As part of his studies into warfare throughout history - he found that overwhelmingly, soldiers have been reluctant to kill the enemy!

Even to the stage where many fired over the heads when confronted by human wave attacks.
One example - at the battle of Rourkes Drift, where ranks of British infantry were firing into masses of Zulu warriors at point blank range, they only managed a hit rate of something like 17%.
Nothing at all like the film "Zulu Dawn" starring Michael Caine.

WW1, the rate of effective firing by infantry was still pretty dismal - less than 20%
WW2 was a bit better, Korea saw the rates improve to over 50%, but the real difference came with new and more realistic training for the Vietnam war, where the infantry managed to reach well over 90% effective firing.

Unfortunately though - the training methods that made the modern infantry much more effective at killing [desensitisation] - is almost a mirror image of what modern society call video games and entertainment.
These same kids [and adults] are now desensitised to violence and killing - and we wonder why our goals [jails for Beagle's mob] are full to overflowing.
=================

As for accuracy and shooting at paper targets, even the best can fall in a heap when you throw a bit of stress thier way.

I have tested a few of our blokes by slipping blank or dummy ammo into thier magazine, to see how they go during a rapid fire or snap shooting match.

Scores tended to be pretty crappy after the dummy or blank were fired - or failed to fire [I was not too popular]



stephen

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sn said..
a USA military officer

The worst war books to read, such a bunch of whiners and introspective waffle. I suspect it's the audience that it's written for is the problem: they want their rough men to slot the booger eaters and then have a wee cry about it.

For a good read, try Sniper One by Dan Mills. The poms are more than happy to do their jobs properly.

Fought a lot at school (went to a boys only school) were violence and bullying was the daily menu.

Punched a few, got punched other times, all between kids and all prior anyone been 15 years old. It mellows you down I can tell you. Never lifted a finger to anyone since 15...

Different times, no mobile phones, no fight videos on youtube, sometimes the only witnesses were between the two brats fighting.

A minimal ''code of honor'' between people involved. Never it got serious with fractures of people in the hospital etc.

NOW

Kids pulling fights to camcord it and get views or ''likes'' on youtube.
Mob style fighting. Girls fighting
Adults (over 18 year olds) knocking bystanders for ''fun'' or bashing a homeless guy with a shovel or baseball to see something crack.
Stomping people's heads on the floor.

Thank god I grew up back there.

Fighting or boxing??? Anyone can "fight" (not me, I chased chicks) or throw wild haymakers when your pissed but boxing is a different ball game and takes discipline and courage (guy at school Tom Sawyer) was gifted. I would love to see some of todays "heroes" have a go at a trained amateur boxer. You would get your arse handed to you on a plate.
I think Novetti has it fairly right. Ask guys that know like John Miller that have been fighting for years.

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Kamikuza said.....The poms are more than happy to do their jobs properly.

Regarding PTSD, the Poms got one thing right,

After the Falklands campaign, the Poms copped a lot of flak for sending thier troops home by boat.
The families and media, understandably, wanted them back home ASAP - preferably flown home.

However, it was later found that the long trip home gave them time to wind down with thier mates, and "sort out thier heads" - so by the time they got home they were much better prepared for "normal" life.

PTSD rates for Falklands veterans were found to be remarkably lower than Vietnam Veterans, where one day you were in the jungle - and within a few days you were back in civvy street, while your mates were still under fire - and your head was still there with them.


stephen

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ka43 said...
Fighting or boxing??? Anyone can "fight" (not me, I chased chicks) or throw wild haymakers when your pissed but boxing is a different ball game and takes discipline and courage (guy at school Tom Sawyer) was gifted. I would love to see some of todays "heroes" have a go at a trained amateur boxer. You would get your arse handed to you on a plate.
I think Novetti has it fairly right. Ask guys that know like John Miller that have been fighting for years.

Agree.
Would also put proper proponents of jui jitsu (not the "I like UFC so I joined a gym" meat head types) in that mix with good boxers. Someone that can roll, and strike, will finish an aggressor really quickly and with a lot of damage potentially done (in my experience).

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sn said..

Unfortunately though - the training methods that made the modern infantry much more effective at killing [desensitisation] - is almost a mirror image of what modern society call video games and entertainment.
These same kids [and adults] are now desensitised to violence and killing - and we wonder why our goals [jails for Beagle's mob] are full to overflowing.

Do you think violent video games are a real serious problem in society? Should more be done to prevent them?

(genuine question - no agenda).

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DanozDirect said..

Most of us have no idea how to fight against another human being.
Oh but it's oh so easy to shoot at someone, and hence why the world is so fooked right now with the death and misery especially around civilians and children.

Make love, not war.

Condoms are a lot cheaper.

90 percent of people who can scuffle good dont get intofights.
Living in a fishing town soon learnt when to talk and when to listen....

Two valuable pieces if info,

Sick crunts dont advertise ( this one is very good life tool)

Dont worry about the guy in ya face and his mate trying to roll ya....worry about the guy casually finishing his pint in the background, once he puts it down he will probably knock all three of you out for starting a punch.on in the pub while race 6 at randwick is on and he has 50 bucks on a roughie...

Smiling a bit at some of these. Really, boxers? Yes they will usually win a pub fight with a quick hard first strike - but wasn't this thread about a fight for your life?
A fight to survive against a motivated opponent...

Firstly the boxer is fkd when he gets a star picket to the back of the head before he even knew the fight started (or from the mate of the guy he is shaping up to). So there is number 1 - situational awareness. You don't get that in the ring against one bloke and no weapons - same as shooting a gun once against paper does not make you a combat shooter. It is different when u r in pain, tired and ****ting bricks. Never yet seen a boxer take on two blokes or a guy with knife, or an unexpected ......... nor seen a pistol shooter practice a one armed magazine change for when his non-master hand has been shot off.

Next - the main thing is playing dirty and being mentally prepared to kill...... long before the fight presents.
That's the reality of this crap. It is nothing like what the 102nd Chairborne think it is.

Luckily the cocooned 99.99999% don't have to think about such or prepare for it.
They just sit back and criticise those who do







So Danoz, why on earth are u asking?

Well....to borrow a couple of sayings - the horse has already bolted, and it is pretty hard to put toothpaste back in the tube!

The main difference in military training between WW1, WW2, Korea, and the later more effective training for Vietnam, was primarily "systematic desensitisation".

Earlier training involved shooting at fixed static targets - bullseyes and the like.
When soldiers hit the front line - shooting at live humans was still going against everything that society had raised them for.
The vast majority of soldiers would not shoot at the enemy - even when faced with rapidly approaching fixed bayonets!

Later training involved reactive targets shaped to resemble the enemy, with contact drills being rehearsed until the response is automatic - so the soldier doesnt have to think - he just reacts as his training dictates.

Modern video "war-games" use the same principles as modern military training - constant repetition so reactions become automatic - leaving no time to think about consequenses.

======================

There is so much money to be made flogging [violent] video games and movies, I cant see much chance of limiting access - and the boundaries of these games and movies are getting pushed further every day.

Could you imagine something like Game of thrones, the SAW and Wolf Creek movies, or the many military style video games being as easily available in the 1950's or 60's or 70's?

As a kid, I thrived on a diet of TV shows like Combat and Spyforce, movies like Reach for the Sky, Hunt the Bismark, Twelve o'clock High.
Rainy day reading was generally stuff like Purnells History of WW2, The Desert Column, [and the entire catalogue of war comics ].

I have a strong interest in military history and a healthy respect for firearms and weaponry, a lot of gratitude for the soldiers who use them - and I am truly thankful that I have never needed to use violence to solve a problem.

What worries me is the amount of kids - and adults - who have developed a very short fuse.
"Modern" movies and video games are not helping.

Luckily, here in Australia - small concealable firearms are not as readily available as in the "Land Of The Free", or we might have a lot more damage to deal with.


stephen

Is it shameful if a person had no interest in fighting, and wound up facing one, to go for the nuts and bail (if bailing alone wasn't going to work)?

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AUS1111 said...

sn said..

Unfortunately though - the training methods that made the modern infantry much more effective at killing [desensitisation] - is almost a mirror image of what modern society call video games and entertainment.
These same kids [and adults] are now desensitised to violence and killing - and we wonder why our goals [jails for Beagle's mob] are full to overflowing.

Do you think violent video games are a real serious problem in society? Should more be done to prevent them?

(genuine question - no agenda).

The recent studies I've glanced at (not in depth) seem to show none to very little correlation between violent video games and violence in the players of these games. Curious on others thoughts though.

Be careful if you run only one of them has to chatch you.and your gone and only run half your distance because you may have to fight if you dont get away..
3 things required to fight is. sight.stance and breath take any one of these away and theres your wayout.
but best to avoid if possible.but if you have to take someone out the front knee is perfect.and if you dont break it. you will at least slow them and be able to keep a great distance just using legs

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Mark _australia said..
Smiling a bit at some of these. Really, boxers?


So Danoz, why on earth are u asking?

So far in the media, all the fighting I see is attacks on innocent people and children (the boy on the ambulance seat being what triggered my question) but never do we see what we would see in movies - like people, communities, the downtrodden fighting hand to hand against the aggressors, and winning! If we"re going to have violence on TV on a daily basis, I just wish it wasn't always one sided. But I deplore violence in any form anyway.

^^ very true

It annoys me greatly though when you see a group of fit able bodied males stand by and do nothing when somebody is attacked.
A few months ago on TV it was a fat bloke on walking sticks who intervened when an old lady was being attacked by a nutter at the shop. Where was everybody else?

The old saying about society gets the crime it deserves.....?

You old people and your fist fighting, you need to look to the youth.
All fights now are settled by a dance off.

Not a good fighter......... I hate it............ guess I would try a massive kick in the balls and run. Only if I really needed to.

Have never lost a fight....

But damn I could run fast in my earlier days... and yes that is what i did. I'm not ashamed of that.

Now...I just keep my head down, sht the fck up and don't be a dick in public, even in traffic...you never know who you are pulling a finger at.

Those who look for conflict, find it.... violence seems to be attracted to them. (We've all got people we know like that right).

Just chill...

if it came down it though.... buddy of mine said years back...'first punch normally wins'. Don't wait...and don't use fists...hands and fingers break to easily.



...but truth be told I've known a few people, some of them small statured fellas, nice quiet people... who you wouldn't think twice about squaring up to...


that will literally have the training, skills, strength, stamina and focus to literally rip your neck from your shoulders if they so choosed.... before you knew what hit you.


hence I'm very nice, courteous and respectful to people in public....cause you never know who you are fcking with...

A few years training in Muay thai soon taught me a good lesson. You have no idea of who can and who cannot not fight so best not to engage in the first place