Saffer said...

hamburglar said...

i've said it before and i'll say it again "religion is the root of all evil"

Then explain why Hitler and Stalin, two of the biggest murderers in history were atheists?

Both raised in religious homes, both gave up religion at a young age and committed some of the worst atrocities as atheists.

Just saying...

Who told you that, your youth group leader?

Hitler frequently referred to God and Christianity in his various speeches and writings. In one 1933 speech, he said that "To do justice to God and our own conscience, we have turned once more to the German Volk." In another he said: "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

Stalin being a Communist leader may well have been atheist but what he did was certainly not done in the name of atheism, that is just rediculous.

Adziz said...

Yes im muslim; yes the violence by the protesters was wrong; no i dont believe it is right for atheists to disrespect religion in this way; Mohammed (PBU) is believed to be the last and the holiest prophet of God by muslims and shouldnt be mocked regardless of your beliefs; yes if this sort of stuff came out about Jesus or Buddah i would be protesting.. peacefully; my understanding is that someone yelled out racist taunts to the crowd and then was attacked and then police had to save him and then thats when the scuffle began - in saying this any violence against police shouldnt be and isnt tolerated as ive already said but making it clear; yes i hate the comment 'why arent muslims speaking out against this' news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8533533/muslims-condemn-violent-sydney-protest
We always speak out against it, it would be appreciated if some of you gave a minute to read; yes i personally would like to be in a ring with the guy who said that stuff about the prophet - is that your problem? no, is it the problem for the police, no - but i would defend my beliefs just as i defend australia within my community and the way i defend my family. if anyone disagrees with my beliefs then by all means voice your opinions and debate it respectfully dont be so low as to make a rude offensive hurtful movie; do i think the protesters voiced their opinion respectfully? No;
No from a muslims perspective you are not an infidel whoever you are reading this, infidel refers to the 'bad' amongst the muslims and the christians and the jews and non-believers; Bad = the guy who made the movie. Ill try respond to rest of posts later

Hello Adziz... It's good to hear it from you perspective.. Thanks.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but the problem is that NONE of these demonstrators were in a ring with the people or persons who committed the offence. If they were I would not have a problem with it. I think the film makers were trouble makers and complete twats. Everybody knows that and apart from any retribution that you might like to send their way, that's where the matter should have ended.

The problem comes from the demonstrators marching off to the American embassy which had the possibility of ending in the same way as in Benghazi, that is the murder of people totally NOT responsible for the original offence.
Most people here have a huge problem with this.
If it was the only case of this type it could be excused as a one off aberration but it seems to be the normal method that people of this persuasion use to 'resolve' their disputes.
Most people here have a problem with that too.

If the demonstration was about showing their displeasure about what happened to the American ambassador in Benghazi then I think they would have got a much more understanding reception.
However, as we all know, it was not.
It was about exactly the same thing as the demonstration in Benghazi, death to all those who insult the prophet,.. and anyone else who might be of the same nationality, and we all know how that ended.
Most people here have a problem with that too.

It's a bit hard to expect people to overlook the whole event just on the excuse that they intended it to be a peacefull protest, when nearly everything about the outcome was so predictable.

evlPanda said...

"Innocence of Muslims, previously called Innocence of Bn Laden[sic] (working title Desert Warrior), is an anti-Islamic[1] full-length feature film that was reportedly shown only once to the public—to an audience of about ten people at a rented theater in Hollywood, California"

It's become a real life Monty Python skit.

Nothing like a good over reaction

pweedas said...

Adziz said...

Yes im muslim; yes the violence by the protesters was wrong; no i dont believe it is right for atheists to disrespect religion in this way; Mohammed (PBU) is believed to be the last and the holiest prophet of God by muslims and shouldnt be mocked regardless of your beliefs; yes if this sort of stuff came out about Jesus or Buddah i would be protesting.. peacefully; my understanding is that someone yelled out racist taunts to the crowd and then was attacked and then police had to save him and then thats when the scuffle began - in saying this any violence against police shouldnt be and isnt tolerated as ive already said but making it clear; yes i hate the comment 'why arent muslims speaking out against this' news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8533533/muslims-condemn-violent-sydney-protest
We always speak out against it, it would be appreciated if some of you gave a minute to read; yes i personally would like to be in a ring with the guy who said that stuff about the prophet - is that your problem? no, is it the problem for the police, no - but i would defend my beliefs just as i defend australia within my community and the way i defend my family. if anyone disagrees with my beliefs then by all means voice your opinions and debate it respectfully dont be so low as to make a rude offensive hurtful movie; do i think the protesters voiced their opinion respectfully? No;
No from a muslims perspective you are not an infidel whoever you are reading this, infidel refers to the 'bad' amongst the muslims and the christians and the jews and non-believers; Bad = the guy who made the movie. Ill try respond to rest of posts later

Hello Adziz... It's good to hear it from you perspective.. Thanks.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but the problem is that NONE of these demonstrators were in a ring with the people or persons who committed the offence. If they were I would not have a problem with it. I think the film makers were trouble makers and complete twats. Everybody knows that and apart from any retribution that you might like to send their way, that's where the matter should have ended.

The problem comes from the demonstrators marching off to the American embassy which had the possibility of ending in the same way as in Benghazi, that is the murder of people totally NOT responsible for the original offence.
Most people here have a huge problem with this.
If it was the only case of this type it could be excused as a one off aberration but it seems to be the normal method that people of this persuasion use to 'resolve' their disputes.
Most people here have a problem with that too.

If the demonstration was about showing their displeasure about what happened to the American ambassador in Benghazi then I think they would have got a much more understanding reception.
However, as we all know, it was not.
It was about exactly the same thing as the demonstration in Benghazi, death to all those who insult the prophet,.. and anyone else who might be of the same nationality, and we all know how that ended.
Most people here have a problem with that too.

It's a bit hard to expect people to overlook the whole event just on the excuse that they intended it to be a peacefull protest, when nearly everything about the outcome was so predictable.

Yes exactly, my mate asked me yesterday why theyre burning the american flag? and his right. America has nothing to do with it - in fact america denounced it

Another point i guess is no one would have heard about it if it wasnt for these protests, so not only did they make us look bad but they also spread the ideas put forward by the maker

evlPanda said...

Adziz said...

Yes im muslim; yes the violence by the protesters was wrong; no i dont believe it is right for atheists to disrespect religion in this way; Mohammed (PBU) is believed to be the last and the holiest prophet of God by muslims and shouldnt be mocked regardless of your beliefs...

...dont be so low as to make a rude offensive hurtful movie; do i think the protesters voiced their opinion respectfully? No;

WHAT WAS THIS MOVIE? Can anyone break down what, exactly, was so offensive? Was it slander or lies or out of context facts or what was it???

It upsets me to tell you but there were two trailers on youtube that depicted Muhammad "as a womanizer, a homosexual and a child abuser" My understanding is google took them down.

Obviously I am hurt to use those words in the same sentence as Muhammeds and to many people this is the first impression they get of Muhammad (PBU). You see to muslims we believe that he was a mercy to mankind, he was chosen by God because of his humble character to deliver a message to save humanity. He is just a man like you and me, nothing more nothing less but because of the beauty in his personality God chose him to deliver that message.

doggie said...

Adziz said...

evlPanda said...

Adziz said...

Yes im muslim; yes the violence by the protesters was wrong; no i dont believe it is right for atheists to disrespect religion in this way; Mohammed (PBU) is believed to be the last and the holiest prophet of God by muslims and shouldnt be mocked regardless of your beliefs...

...dont be so low as to make a rude offensive hurtful movie; do i think the protesters voiced their opinion respectfully? No;

God chose him to deliver that message.

Whos god?

God is the same as Allah, he created you (my belief)

A message from the Grand Mufti of Australia in regards to the protests
list.islamicmedia.com.au/uploadimages/Press_Release_16_Sept_2012.pdf

kiteboy dave said...

Religion is always the root problem, be it jebus or:

A student of Islamic history and politics but unfortunately not of graphic design.

Adziz said...


It upsets me to tell you but there were two trailers on youtube that depicted Muhammad "as a womanizer, a homosexual and a child abuser" My understanding is google took them down.

Obviously I am hurt to use those words in the same sentence as Muhammeds and to many people this is the first impression they get of Muhammad (PBU). You see to muslims we believe that he was a mercy to mankind, he was chosen by God because of his humble character to deliver a message to save humanity. He is just a man like you and me, nothing more nothing less but because of the beauty in his personality God chose him to deliver that message.

Hi Adziz,

A vote of appreciation for coming on here, denouncing these idiots, and trying to spread the word that they are an idiot minority within your community. (I didn't read you say that exactly but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt).

I have copped plenty in previous arguments on this forum about muslims. You can search to verify if you like. I have always jumped to their defence, been a moderate voice calling for calm and reason where the redneckier element is calling for 'throw em on a boat' etc. This is due to some friends of mine, essentially, firsthand knowledge that 99% of your demographic are great people.

However...

I have the right, in Australia, to say something like:

"On the evidence I've seen lately, my conclusion is that Allah is a f**kstick."

You have the right to disagree. You have the right to be upset. You have the right to hurt feelings. You have the right to counter argue using similar language.

You, as I do, have the right to free speech. It's a wonderful thing.

You DO NOT have the right, ever, to call for beheadings over it. NOT IN THIS COUNTRY. Will not be tolerated.

These pricks have managed to turn sympathetic people such as myself a little less sympathetic. In this they are hurting good muslims in general. YOUR COMMUNITY NEED TO REIGN THEM IN, YOURSELVES. We can't do it, we don't even speak the language. Your people are failing in the fight to stamp out this stuff internally.

I have been reading up lately on the growing dollars coming into this country from Saudi Arabia, sponsorship of Muslim schools, with the aim of pushing Wasabi / Salafi-ism (sp?) ie hardline sharia militant muslim attitudes. This is what you guys need to address first. It's pretty plain. Just as average christians here (not just atheists) need to fight the ACL and other fundamentalists, you guys need to be much more effective at cleaning up your own backyard.

Start with these guys too

www.hizb-australia.org/
Their flags were at the front with the beheading signs.

/runs and hides under the bed

Bloody top stuff Kiteboy Dave, and well said.

Adziz, top stuff for coming here to brave the anti's. YOU can change things.
However, regardless of your motives or eloquent posts, you still quote your holy text as defining "infidels" as bad Muslims, and Christians and Jews.
It also says they are to be put to death. You might wanna start a little movement amongst Muslims that the death part should be ignored.

Steve Hughes, Offended.

Google it...

Check it out....

Think about it...



Remember, Nothing happens when your offended.

Adziz said...

; yes i personally would like to be in a ring with the guy who said that stuff about the prophet - is that your problem?

Yes... as much as you are appearing like a moderate voice... why cant you just realise the guy(s) is a dick and move on. Why the need to get in the ring? Its the lower end of the exact same response to calling for beheadings.

Taking out the fairy tale element of religion, Its no different to someone calling your* mother a whore - I couldnt give a toss what someone - who has zero influence over me and mine - thinks of my mother.


No different to the ****tard in the bar asking if I'm looking at his pint - rise above it FFS!


*not your mother specifically, but in general.

Right on Dave!......... Holy mother of Christ, Mark and I agree

log man said...

Right on Dave!......... Holy mother of Christ, Mark and I agree

May have to rethink my position....

Mark _australia said...

log man said...

Right on Dave!......... Holy mother of Christ, Mark and I agree

May have to rethink my position....

Good on you, Mark... come on... we have good waves to surf on Alpha