Iv walked to many miles in those shoes!!!
I looked at the lock on the door of my fathers bedroom where he kept his gun, I was 15 and had an unsupported and bullied life to then! Funny though I faced court for the first time soon after that and had to fight for everyday to survive in jail, do we have it to easy here in Australia? That it's not worth living anymore in the land of plenty, as I read friends don't stop someone from doing it, nor do wife, kids and money.
I was back in the planning stage again a few weeks ago! 47 and never really escaped it, just know I will, must and can't avoid it one day. It scares the s-it out of me to be right at the point of ending it is truly facing one's demons.
Yeah, say Gidday. How ya going mate for it won't do any harm.
It's the biggest killer of the young by along way. And the old too for many end it when life is unbareable.
It's a form of control I was told once!
I could tell you that iv not seen my kids in many years, that I can't hold now not even look for a relationship with a woman.
But what rubbish to say I'm hard done by when there are so many others out there in the world fighting for another day.
Suicide is an END to the suffering for the one that had to answer the question 'to be or not to be' the most famous line written after 'I think there for I am'...
I might go read a bit of Shakespeare now :)))....

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DavidJohn said..

Worth watching..

embed.ted.com/talks/andrew_solomon_depression_the_secret_we_share

Watched it a while ago... resonates with me.

Without my wife, I'm not sure I would be here still...



Pure solid gold awesome woman (14 years married tomorrow)
So glad she dragged me through... 2 kids now, and the pure joy every day of them discovering the world lifts me beyond words.




My father and sister have tried... multiple times.... its in the family as it were.




Member since 2005, 351 posts. lurking every day... through the darkest, there has been light here.
Thanks.

Dezman, Rod Bunny,

Sending you guys a man hug

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Gizmo said..

kiterboy said..

Suicide is such a self-indulgent thing.

If you've reached a point in your life where the option to end it all seems to be the way to go, think about it, you're at your lowest, things can only get better from there.

hargs said..

It's certainly a permanent solution to what is often only a temporary problem. Unfortunately when people are that low that they are considering ending it all they don't see things this way.

How wrong are you both..

Soon after my friend committed suicide I did quite a lot of reading on the matter and it often DOESN'T occur at their lowest point.
My friend was in a serious car accident and recovered well, his marriage was not as good as prior to the accident for many factors (not just the accident) we often talked for hours about anything and everything no holds barred.
After 2 years of being in a VERY low ebb he seemed to be looking up and infact the phone call I had with him (less than 24 hrs from his death) he sounded amazing, relaxed and the best I had heard him sound for over 2 years. Apparently he had made calls to lots of friends that week and all said that he sounded on the improve, Then imagine my shock when she rang me to tell me the news.

Apparently it is quite normal that people have resolved in their own minds what their choice is and what they are going to do often months in advance, and the last phone call I had with him that night he was relaxed, aware and friendly (he didn't mention to anyone what his intended actions would be).

So please don't try and think like or judge others.... you can't.

Geez that was spline tingling..

I dont grieve but it can't hurt to share.

My mate went to a different school than me and the other good mate. We were a band of three. All three different schools.
Blake was a Prefect and house captain. He was the Captain of the hockey team, he was in the top 5% of the state going to one of WA's most prestigious schools. After some research there were signs, he broke up with his girlfriend three months before hand. For no reason but it was amicable (It sup prised us because he adored her). He came from a well to do family that was Strict but far and loving.
He had always been very goal oriented and had achieved or even smashed ever one. He was in the time leading up to his death more happy, settled than ever. Even Relaxed is the catch phrase.

It was selfish because it left a huge destructive trail. But he for some reason, i can't think of a single one, was finished with this life and did what he did. But he was not down or in a low place. In fact, we all just wanted to be him.

I will say one day, i will kick arse good and proper..

Thanks Seafarrer but these days, when you open up and start to talk. Suicide has effected More people then not..
The truth is we need to open up and talk.

Im done..

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jbshack said..
The truth is we need to open up and talk...

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seafever17 said...
Dezman, Rod Bunny,
Sending you guys a man hug

+1

and if anyone ever wants to chat... I'd love it if you PM me...

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seafever17 said..

Dezman, Rod Bunny,

Sending you guys a man hug

+ 1

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superlizard said..

Skid said..

Hey Superlizard,

Thanks for starting the thread and a particular thanks for posting the link! I already knew some of the information in the link but it still taught me stuff I didn't know.

I have a friend who is at risk of suicide and when I spoke with her last night it helped.

reposting link below...
www.helpguide.org

you made my day Skid with your post. I've been beating my self about how I wish I'd have picked up on some signals from my neighbour, but he always seemed just normal/regular guy to me... But this (plus another suicide of a friend's relative few weeks ago) prompted me to become more aware of this issue, and to try spread the word...

I think lonleyness is one of the big factors... taking interest in people and giving them time can do wanders...

Superlizard,
Thanks for letting me know that I helped make your day.
You are right, spreading the word is part of the solution.

Some of the circumstances do my head in... My friend had an ex partner suicide and her daughter attempt a few times, she has also done a 4 day suicide intervention course. So, she knows the pain of those left behind and she also knows (more than most) the ways to help people who are at risk, yet she still slips into the darkness herself

I'll keep doing my best to let her know there are people who care, but I still worry about her...

I like to just try and make someone smile.

I get a coffee every morning and i walk past the trolly guy everyday. He is a different nationality and so communication is not good. But he looks angry. Anyway its took me three weeks, i made a goal to get him to smile, but everyday i would say an enthusiastic "Hi" "Loverly day" Or "geez another stinker". He eventually broke down and now smiles and greets me when i arrive

Makes my day, if nothing else. A simple smile is so infectious

This is a story i heard years ago. Im not sure if its true, but its story is great and well worth sharing. I guess it is based a little more at youth suicide but i shared it with my daughter a few years ago. She in tern mentioned it to her teacher who then shared it with her class.. Anyway you get the message. It contagious so can't hurt to share again.
www.jaredstory.com/you_never_know.html

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seafever17 said..

Dezman, Rod Bunny,

Sending you guys a man hug

My thoughts also go out to your guys.

Thanks guys for the support.
I find it hard to write about this subject, my words are confused and don't flow.
If you met me you would think I'm an high energy person that talks a lot, active with loads of optimism. I hide away when I'm down and watch DVDs or sleep.
There is a good reason for my intensity, I have Aspergers syndrome! Which basically means I'm odd in some ways, intense world theory explains it well. It now effects 1 in 50 men In some small way, then along the scale to Autism.
From my experience A suicide state takes a long time to come about, maybe that question Why do I put up with it any longer plays at the persons will until the escape seems easier than living with the question.
And gee its hard living with it everyday and when I couldn't go though with it at 40 and had to turn around and face life I realised how much pain I was living in and thought either do it or live life.
It took along time to keep those thoughts away and I still regress at times, there is an old maxim; 'buck up and get over it' but only you can tell yourself this and Iv found some truth in it!
I'm trying to think of some advice to help others, talking of course is the start. But I think talking about what gets you down makes it worse!
Doing stuff gives reason to the day so walk, surf or sail. Ask your mate around for BBQ go to friends house etc.
lean on them for a favour! I know this seems weird but really push them to help you, if it's just a lift to pick up the car or help build your house :D... Trust me for helping others is what it's all about and getting them to help you is a two way street.

A mate of mine who at the moment is "coming out" about his depression and suicidal thoughts uses this little 4 minute cartoon clip to help explain his issues.....

.....and it does very well !!

Well worth the effort to watch and helps with a small amount of understanding of what some people are going through a lot of the time.

We aren't close friends but he doesn't mind when I ring him and ask if he's having a good day or a bad day. He usually answers his mobile when he sees my number - I hope he always answers.

Nicely put together^^^

The last thing you lose is Hope.

We don't talk about stuff much. Which is somewhat a shame. People in general are not comfortable with talking about vulnerable topics with other people. We're more on the hunt for the good vibes and cool things or acceptable things to chat about.

If we express something that we don't like or makes us feel bad around the right company, our feelings and thoughts may be validated by the people we're talking too, and we become ok with expressing ourselves. If we express ourselves around people who feel uncomfortable with their own feelings towards what we want to say, then there's a good chance the topic will be shunned, diverted, ignored or dropped in one way or another.

Beneath our exteriors, we're all quite vulnerable, yet this part of us is not prized very often. It's the 'steadfast knights on horseback' kind of people are the one's looked upon as who we should aspire too and be like. To say we feel down or would like to chat may suggest we're weak. For men this can be hard to even consider.

Listening to someone talk when they need it, will change someone's life in some way. If you can, sit with their uncomfortable emotions and your own and you can make a world of difference to them and unknowingly to many other friends and family of that person.

People who are seriously thinking of suicide may be past the point of believing someone would even care to listen. If you suspect someone is in this place, just try to hug them or hold their hand. Try not to let your own uncomfortable feelings stop you from reaching out to help someone.

For the people still following this thread who believe suicide is selfish or cowardly' I gotta say I think you don't understand how many levels passed "just having a bad day" these people feel that they are. Take on someone else's problems for a day and you might be begging for your own problems back.

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Dezman said..

It took along time to keep those thoughts away and I still regress at times, there is an old maxim; 'buck up and get over it' but only you can tell yourself this and Iv found some truth in it!

I'm trying to think of some advice to help others, talking of course is the start. But I think talking about what gets you down makes it worse!

Doing stuff gives reason to the day so walk, surf or sail. Ask your mate around for BBQ go to friends house etc.

lean on them for a favour! I know this seems weird but really push them to help you, if it's just a lift to pick up the car or help build your house :D... Trust me for helping others is what it's all about and getting them to help you is a two way street.

Very useful info Dezman...

Also been enquiring about doing some course with these guys: suicidefirstaid.org.au/

I listened to a presentation from a Phd/doctor/presentor last year - basically one's brain is used to thinking in certain way... i.e. electrical signals in brain tend to choose common/established pathways... But people can take conscious decisions to start re-training their brain and changing how it thinks. Once the new pathways are established, the signals will tend to follow them. Hence people can change their habbits (both thinking habbits and physical ones)... one can re-train them selves to think positive... Obviously, this takes time and comitment. But having a positive goal is great thing.

It's also about a person recognising their situation and having desire towards better (step1)... then making a decision on what changes are needed to improve things(step2).... and finally making the changes in small incremental steps (step3). Of course, this may not be completely possible in some circumstances, but i've found this method to generally work really well. Sometimes it takes long time, but if you have a goal, it's worth it.

Interesting Press release I found this morning.

Suicide Prevention Australia announce the launch of the Work and Suicide Prevention Position Statement

The dark shadow of work: Suicide among working age adults
Most deaths by suicide are among people of working age. Suicide is the leading cause of death for males aged 25?44 years and females aged 25?34 years[i]. Adults spend about a third of their waking hours at work[ii]. Suicide is mostly preventable yet significant gaps exist in our understanding of the relationship between work and suicide, limiting prevention efforts. One Australian study found that 17% of suicides in Victoria from 2000?2007 were work-related[iii].

In a position statement released today at the Construction Industry inaugural Mental Health Conference in Brisbane, Suicide Prevention Australia (SPA) identifies the workplace as playing a vital role in the creation of a suicide safe community.

SPA calls on organisations of all sizes to implement workplace policies and programs that promote a mentally healthy workforce and prevent suicide behaviours. The position statement provides recommendations for employers to take action to prevent suicide. It also offers an in-depth analysis of the case for change including risk factors, evidence-based activities and programs that can be implemented in the workplace and policy analysis. This is rounded off with practical information for responding to suicide including case studies and links to resources to assist organisations implement the recommendations.

Click here to learn more.


________________________________________
[i] Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). (2013a). Causes of death, Australia, 2011. Canberra: ABS. (ABS cat. no. 3303.0).
[ii] World Health Organisation (WHO). (2006). Preventing suicide: a resource at work. Geneva.
[iii] Routley, V. H., & Ozanne-Smith, J. E. (2012). Work-related suicide in Victoria, Australia: a broad perspective. International Journal of Injury Control & Safety Promotion, 19(2), 131-134.


I would of thought workplace related homicide would be a greater threat

Sad news today about Charlotte Dawson.

www.smh.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/charlotte-dawson-found-dead-20140222-338j6.html

Television personality Charlotte Dawson has been found dead inside her inner-Sydney apartment.

The New Zealand-born former model, 47, was found by police at her Woolloomooloo home just after 11:15am on Saturday.

A police spokesman said the woman was yet to be formally identified and there do not appear to be any suspicious circumstances.

TV personality Charlotte Dawson has been found dead inside her Sydney home.
Until recently she was a judge on the Foxtel reality TV series Australia's Next Top Model and had recently been setting up a homeware range.

Dawson often appeared on morning and breakfast television shows, last appearing on the Nine Network's Morning Show on Friday.

Dawson was tweeting prolifically on Friday about people suffering from life threatening cancer conditions and in particular a man suffering inoperable

In her last tweets, she was telling her 53,700 followers that the plight of Lex Oliver was "a sad joke. So preventable, I've been lobbying this for ages but a dumb telly blonde nobody listens to".

Her last tweet 20 hours ago said "We have the hospitals/resources & the doctors & professors willing to help. Where is the govt support?"

Dawson had also been urging her followers to send their love to the mum of five who was about to undergo surgery.

In 2012, Dawson spoke about a sense of helplessness she felt as the target of online death threats, but had to fight back against the taunts, which eventually led to her admission to hospital.

In an interview on 60 Minutes, she said the experience was "really humiliating and embarrassing [but] I will recover from this".

The television presenter said she had never experienced death threats of the "ferocity" she experienced on Twitter. She said when she returned home from a party that night in August, she was confronted with a stream of abusive messages, some of which said "stick her head in a toaster" and "kill

Dawson said that the online trolls got to her. But the anonymous online attackers were cowards, she said. "If you're going to express those points of view, you should do it with a face and a name so that you can be accountable. It's the anonymity they celebrate because they think there are no consequences."

Dawson was released after spending two days under observation at St Vincent's Psychiatric Emergency Care Centre.

Speaking to the Herald in October 2012, Dawson said she saw no reason to stay out of the limelight following her August suicide attempt, sparked by a barrage of abuse, mostly anonymous, on Twitter, where Dawson was a regular combatant.

"Who are they, or you for that matter, to tell me what to do? Are you a mental health expert? No. So they can all f---- off," an emotionally raw Dawson said when asked why she would appear on Seven News at such a sensitive time in her treatment.

"So, because I have a mental illness I should disappear and hide? Ever since I went into hospital, all I have heard and read about is people telling me what they think I should do."

Dawson was married to Olympic swimmer Scott Miller in 1999 but the marriage broke up two years later.

More to come

Lifeline: 131114

I have a friend who has Dysthymia, Patskens Black Dog video pretty much epitomises the way he says he feels. He says he has a black dog that is with him always, sometimes it is just a glimpse out of the corner of his eye of the dog running through grass in a distant field at other times it is there nipping at his heels or at worst sitting on his chest pinning him down. Most people would never know, as he is functional, he has the ability to get up each day, he works and plays sports, although he tends to be quiet and a little introverted, shy until he gets to know someone. He says his involvement in sports and caring for his animals keep him going, literally keep him alive.

He avoids serious relationships and being social as he has learnt that he finds it too hard, draining and damaging dealing with stressful situations or emotionally with the ups and downs, he says the best thing a friend can do is just listen when he feels a need to talk and be there to hang out and do simple things like veg in front of the tv or just go for a walk at the beach. He works to maintain a stable, safe, relaxing lifestyle. He says he never feels joy, a good day is when at best he feels alright or ok. A bad day is when he struggles to shower, get out of the house and walk the two blocks to the supermarket, on those days, when he makes it, he congratulates himself for that small win.

He's good at his job, his boss and peers look up to him, he gives a lot, usually before things are asked of him, but says he hates to feel the pressure of when things are expected of or from him, he can only give and do what he is able and capable of. He says the few times he has tried to discuss his condition with people it induces a lot of coughing, foot shuffling and looking about the room, people just don't know what to do or to say so he mostly keeps things to himself, he never talks about things at work as he is too afraid he will lose his job and rarely in his personal life as he thinks people will deem him weak or crazy, mentally inept, when really I think he's one of the strongest people I know, to have his condition and be able to combat it and come out on top each and every day.

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Ashton19 said..

More to come

Lifeline: 131114

Yeah, there will be more to come. Quite touched by Helen Razor's tribute to her friend.

badhostess.com/charlotte-dawson-was-better-than-you/

Many people are oblivious to other people's plights, that can't help people that are on the edge.

Few years ago someone from work committed suicide. About a quarter were saying they could see it coming, had tried to help, talk to him, that sort of stuff.

But the great majority : "gee, I'm surprised, he was a happy guy, nobody could see it coming."
In fact, that majority was so adamant that they were trying to convince those who could see it that it wasn't so, even after it was done.

On a related topic, I was back visiting me friend in the l.. bin.
The saddest ones in there are the anorexics.
Families around them trying to save them, they seem to have their wits about, just that they're dying..

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pierrec45 said..

On a related topic, I was back visiting me friend in the l.. bin.



1. It's my friend, not me friend.
2. I'm sure your friend would be happy to know that you think he's in the looney bin.

Grow up & learn to spell!!

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hargs said..

pierrec45 said..

On a related topic, I was back visiting me friend in the l.. bin.

1. It's my friend, not me friend.
2. I'm sure your friend would be happy to know that you think he's in the looney bin.

Grow up & learn to spell!!

OK I'll tell me mate.
Anyways, I don't "think" he's in there, he just is, it's not a disputable fact.
He's using the same term, so I don't see why I shouldn't ?

(RIP Charlotte)

First world problem! ? I recently worked with a nurse from a war torn country in Africa who had experienced lots of hardship eg brother shot dead, friends stabbed and shot, family members raped (male and female) yet she had never heard of suicide until she came to Australia. She was bewildered why people would want to kill themselves. Back in her country people are desperate to try and stay alive.

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R1DER said..

First world problem! ? I recently worked with a nurse from a war torn country in Africa who had experienced lots of hardship eg brother shot dead, friends stabbed and shot, family members raped (male and female) yet she had never heard of suicide until she came to Australia. She was bewildered why people would want to kill themselves. Back in her country people are desperate to try and stay alive.

Massive first world problem.
Life is pretty good here compared to a lot of places on this earth. Its an unfortunate by-product of our first world lifestyle.
My brain is very literal so I struggle to understand why people choose that way out.
I'll probably get canned for this, but I think its a pretty selfish thing to do to the people around you.

It would be nice, if this thread could be left for those that want to help and maybe if you disagree just leave it alone

Lets make it a supportive effort, not a option to pull people down or belittle their cause

Just because we reside in a 'First World Country' does not conclude that there are not people who suffer and have to endure hardship, abuse, stress, trauma or grief that can mentally and emotionally push them to and beyond their limits. It is comments such as 'loony bin' and a lack of understanding that forces people who may otherwise seek help to remain silent to avoid the prejudice and stigma of the ignorant.

I hope everyone is feeling good, I thank everyone for their contribution, I found evilpanadas post interesting and decided to look into suicide, apparently one million people a yr commit suicide, and there are 10 to 20 million non fatal attempts ( world wide) a year, men are four times more likely to commit then women, suicide requires a willful attempt to die, so non human species are said to be incapable of the act, but some species are said to do it, usually as self defense, eg termites, salmonella, interesting subject,,,,when i was younger i used to think about it a lot but i was using a lot of heroin then so coming down can be tough on the soul, im glad i didn't do it, for me, I give thanks to God, lidsy and father Riley, thankyou for loving me, I hope all that think about it can remember how sweet it is to be loved, and love back, good luck all

Don't they say that your basic human needs (food, water, shelter, safety etc) have to be met before your mind/heart can go contemplating a deeper sense of contentment? I think maybe it is inability to find that deeper sense of contentment while all your basic needs are well satisfied that can lead people to dark places, meaning there is every reason why people in first world countries find themselves in this place. The fact that they cannot find joy or hope despite physically living comfortably can just lead to a greater sense of guilt and worthlessness.

Life is not so fantastic to want to cling to it so tightly. Not everyone has friends and family to share it with and love to fill it with sunshine. Not everyone lives in a community big enough to seek out or find that stuff if you don't have it. Not everyone would be missed if they were gone. Some people get trapped in things and responsibility they cannot escape, or cannot find the strength to escape, and despite their best efforts to fight for the light at the end of the tunnel, it goes out. Like so many kind people in this thread have said, not a low day or a low time, but years without any rainbows of joy. Fighting so hard to reach joy but always failing. Powerless. Until any kind of oblivion seems like the much preferred option. Anything other than endlessly being you, and endlessly failing to make it better.

If you are so fulfilled that you cannot understand why others would contemplate these things or you even resent those that do, feel blessed and lucky. Be grateful for the joy you feel and especially for those around you who bring you joy. They are precious precious things and not everyone finds them.

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thomas11 said..
...

Massive first world problem.
Life is pretty good here compared to a lot of places on this earth. Its an unfortunate by-product of our first world lifestyle.
My brain is very literal so I struggle to understand why people choose that way out.
I'll probably get canned for this, but I think its a pretty selfish thing to do to the people around you.

You don't necessarily see it that way when you're contemplating it. One of the aspects of depression is that life seems grey joyless and pointless and you are pretty much convinced that this is a true image of life. One death more or less shouldn't mean much to anybody else. The received knowledge about loss seems like an artificial construct that in the light of your bleak world view is obviously wrong.

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NotWal said..

thomas11 said..
...

Massive first world problem.
Life is pretty good here compared to a lot of places on this earth. Its an unfortunate by-product of our first world lifestyle.
My brain is very literal so I struggle to understand why people choose that way out.
I'll probably get canned for this, but I think its a pretty selfish thing to do to the people around you.

You don't necessarily see it that way when you're contemplating it. One of the aspects of depression is that life seems grey joyless and pointless and you are pretty much convinced that this is a true image of life. One death more or less shouldn't mean much to anybody else. The received knowledge about loss seems like an artificial construct that in the light of your bleak world view is obviously wrong.

That's because it's such an extremely self-indulgent way of thinking.

Suicidal thoughts are, especially in our country, the height of self-indulgence.
Perhaps there are people out there who death is the best option for, but I doubt it.
Of all the people I've known directly or indirectly who have committed suicide, none of them were living in conditions that made death the best option, not by a long shot.

I hope one day we'll all be able to just say - "I Had a Black Dog".


ihadablackdog.blogspot.com/