If someone is taking cash in a chain, they are avoiding paying franchise fees, probably hiring cash employees, thus stealing from the Ato, their head office and their employees.

If there is an accident and an employee is hurt they have no insurance either. So complex. They just don't realise it.

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FormulaNova said..

bjw said..
Sounds like it is different in Sydney than where you guys live. Fair point.

FWA is all about crucifying these companies who pay incorrectly and franchises are going out of their way to audit their franchisees to eliminate underpayments.

People still pay cash and probably always will hire and pay cash. Its not altogether bad. The upside this that cheap little local Thai restaurant, stays cheap and continues to trade.

I don't think Mr Milk lives all that far from me, and I'm in Sydney. The petrol stations I go to around here though all seem to have Indian employees. Part time students? People with PR? Who knows?

I don't like it that people pay cash for workers, with the emphasis on paying them less or for people not entitled to work. It results in everyone else facing the same costs, so everyone then justifies doing it. - Which probably leads to people claiming Aussies don't want to work, which really means 'Aussies are too expensive'.

I don't know how they look at employment, but in Chile they have this thing where everyone with a shop has to give you a receipt, and it appears on their books. They have random checks, and the implications of data not matching could mean your business being shut down while they investigate. I expect tax compliance is close to 100%, and I expect the same would probably be true of staff records.

I am sure some people will say this is wrong, but it becomes fairer for everyone.

Interesting point ,
Kinda agree , and kinda don't .
I see it fair giving a receipt for an ice cream , but it's a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it .
Otherwise it's a totally controlled environment that doesn't promote any incentive .
Government controlled robot ?
Then we will really complain !

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Imax1 said..
Interesting point ,
Kinda agree , and kinda don't .
I see it fair giving a receipt for an ice cream , but it's a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it .
Otherwise it's a totally controlled environment that doesn't promote any incentive .
Government controlled robot ?
Then we will really complain !

Why is it a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it?


The incentive in all businesses should be to earn money by selling something. Not to outwit the tax office by not paying tax.
In theory, if all your competitors pay tax, then it should be a level playing field.

The receipt idea is a great idea.

I still see some benefit for those little Thai restaurant that hire only within their family and social circles and break every tax and labour law. Both their staff and customers are happy.

Their local Maccas down the road is losing sales though because of them.

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hilly said..
Harvard University psychology professor Steven Pinker

Oh you mean this guy's brother in-law? Pinker, Ridd, too many riddle-based surnames. It's just not fair-dinkum anymore.

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FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
Interesting point ,
Kinda agree , and kinda don't .
I see it fair giving a receipt for an ice cream , but it's a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it .
Otherwise it's a totally controlled environment that doesn't promote any incentive .
Government controlled robot ?
Then we will really complain !

Why is it a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it?


The incentive in all businesses should be to earn money by selling something. Not to outwit the tax office by not paying tax.
In theory, if all your competitors pay tax, then it should be a level playing field.

Outwit the tax office... welcome to the big corporate boys world. Anything a small business can do survive go for it I say. The games rigged muther faarkrsss

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hilly said..
They are both valid POV's for that individuals situation but are very narrow and do not reflect the global situation accurately.
Back on point. Life's good, heading off for a surf.

For some. This post perfectly says that, good on you for having time and being able to afford that , however not everyone has the same life choices,

I have to reframe the point because everyone has missed it. My bad.
If you read the report it shows no matter your status you have a better life now than a century ago. Simples. So enjoy

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eppo said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
Interesting point ,
Kinda agree , and kinda don't .
I see it fair giving a receipt for an ice cream , but it's a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it .
Otherwise it's a totally controlled environment that doesn't promote any incentive .
Government controlled robot ?
Then we will really complain !

Why is it a grey area for someone wanting to make a go of it?


The incentive in all businesses should be to earn money by selling something. Not to outwit the tax office by not paying tax.
In theory, if all your competitors pay tax, then it should be a level playing field.

Outwit the tax office... welcome to the big corporate boys world. Anything a small business can do survive go for it I say. The games rigged muther faarkrsss

I think some small buisiness have to a little to survive .
Take the local fish and chip shop for example . If they don't cheaply employ family members and pocket a little cash , many won't survive. They work hard and most are struggling . There not driving Beemers.
If they stuck 100% to the rules , they may not exist .
Then we all eat McDonald's only.

Yeh, and the argument could be made that because the Ato and Fairwork is cracking down on Cash and wage under payments there are less fish n chips and similar

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bjw said..
Yeh, and the argument could be made that because the Ato and Fairwork is cracking down on Cash and wage under payments there are less fish n chips and similar

they are cracking down and reducing the use of cash of one reason and one reason only...so they can have full control of the money supply whilst pulling their archaic interest rate lever (and pulling each other off as they laugh their way to unbridled wealth).

Their powerful friends then can get the illusory binary digital zeros and ones for well below the cash rate and sell it back to us shmucks for a profit without creating any productivity whatsoever. Monolithic oligopolies can use this cheap unreal money to buy out smaller weaker competitors even if their business model is flawed and an inefficient allocation of this so called money. This disrupts true capitalism and innovation dies with it.

They sell it as cracking down on crime and money laundering...white collar crime is far more lucrative.

Follow the real money...or wealth transfer. Money is just a measure of wealth and the clever greedy pigs have their noses well and truly in the trough now with little room for the other 99%. It used to be a measure of true value but the PHD economic puppet whacko's have put a stop to that.

But yes little we can do about so .. let's go surfing for sure!!

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bjw said..
Yeh, and the argument could be made that because the Ato and Fairwork is cracking down on Cash and wage under payments there are less fish n chips and similar

Yeah, maybe. I can see the case for it being hard for small places to compete against the likes of Maccas, but I see them in different market niches.

For me, macdonalds is a simple meal, that is easy to get and a known quality. Nowhere near as good as a decent Thai feed, and probably not as good as a decent hamburger and chips.

At least where I live in metro Sydney, it feels like a lot of these small businesses have it difficult because of high rents and poor locations. They are paying a lot of money to rent something that makes their base costs high. Then you find that there are not many locations where there are 'local shops', so parking is difficult.

Rents are high because we have been conned into thinking that realestate price increases are a great thing. So we get high rents everywhere and this pushes into commercial rents as well. We have been ripped off by our governments in thinking that increasing property prices are a good thing but there are so many things that it affects. I was watching another episode of 'fastNloud', which is in Texas. There, they showed someone's workshop where they just tinkered around on weekends and stored car parts. In Aus, we have the same space, but who could afford to do that when rents would be $1000 a week?

Absolutely, rents are a major problem. Westfields have pushed the high rent ship. But councils have steered it.

I ran businesses in Westfields and hated them with a passion, until I ran businesses on street front shops.

Then with Council pressures tbh I preferred Westfields who protected the lessee somewhat from the imposition of councils.

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bjw said..
Absolutely, rents are a major problem. Westfields have pushed the high rent ship. But councils have steered it.

I ran businesses in Westfields and hated them with a passion, until I ran businesses on street front shops.

Then with Council pressures tbh I preferred Westfields who protected the lessee somewhat from the imposition of councils.

Thanks for the perspective.

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FormulaNova said..

bjw said..
Yeh, and the argument could be made that because the Ato and Fairwork is cracking down on Cash and wage under payments there are less fish n chips and similar

Yeah, maybe. I can see the case for it being hard for small places to compete against the likes of Maccas, but I see them in different market niches.

For me, macdonalds is a simple meal, that is easy to get and a known quality. Nowhere near as good as a decent Thai feed, and probably not as good as a decent hamburger and chips.

At least where I live in metro Sydney, it feels like a lot of these small businesses have it difficult because of high rents and poor locations. They are paying a lot of money to rent something that makes their base costs high. Then you find that there are not many locations where there are 'local shops', so parking is difficult.

Rents are high because we have been conned into thinking that realestate price increases are a great thing. So we get high rents everywhere and this pushes into commercial rents as well. We have been ripped off by our governments in thinking that increasing property prices are a good thing but there are so many things that it affects. I was watching another episode of 'fastNloud', which is in Texas. There, they showed someone's workshop where they just tinkered around on weekends and stored car parts. In Aus, we have the same space, but who could afford to do that when rents would be $1000 a week?

Interestingly Texas is one US state that didn't get as affected by the last GFC. That's because they pay rent or land tax on all holdings to the government. This extracts the land value appreciation out of the system and doesn't allow it capitalise into the price. Hence land price speculation is not a major concern in Texas hence property prices didn't plummet like in the other Us states.

Property / land and the race for rent is the root cause of the boom and bust cycle but not many understand that. And those with land are not going to change the private property rights laws anytime soon as they are on the gravy train themselves.

But this Ponzi scheme will have its eventual ending point and this time around its gonna get nasty.

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eppo said..
Interestingly Texas is one US state that didn't get as affected by the last GFC.

Your forgetting the largest crude oil boom of anywhere perhaps ever. Texas' shale oil boom made the us the largest oil producer in the world and expected to rival Russia and Saudi combined by 2025.

time.com/5492648/permian-oil-boom-west-texas/

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bjw said..

eppo said..
Interestingly Texas is one US state that didn't get as affected by the last GFC.

Your forgetting the largest crude oil boom of anywhere perhaps ever. Texas' shale oil boom made the us the largest oil producer in the world and expected to rival Russia and Saudi combined by 2025.

time.com/5492648/permian-oil-boom-west-texas/

Dear me here we go again. If there was a crude oil boom then wouldn't you see the price of land in Texas go through the roof as speculators chased the capitalised economic rent... which amplified the problem and has bank credit used for non productive reasons ?

But you didnt. Unlike what happens in say WA when mining kicks into high gear.

All wealth eventually finds its way into land. Ask the Silicon Valley residents whose making the money from the boom happening there. It's not the tech companies I can tell you.

This is fine until speculators are allowed to trade this appreciating land price with bank credit. Property then appreciates beyond what the productive economy can afford (some sucker is left holding the can) and the banks ledgers come under pressure. They have to reduce credit creates and then we have land owned worth less than the outstanding debt. The. The dominoes fall. And THEN the other markets are affected as credit dries up including the casino Wall Street movers and shakers.

See the wood for the trees. It's a story as old as the hills but too many of us just can't see it. Even the so called economic PhD legends who have never forecasted not able to explain why their so called economic models cannot stop the boom and bust cycle.