A Life on the dole is something like 275 dollars plus rent assistance. Try living on that pittance for a lengthy period of time!

My super willing / desperate to work and able 29 year old neighbour has been unemployed short of a part time job for a year since I moved in here 6 years ago.

Then there is the constant harassment from the private job club provider - it is seemingly intense depending on the job club provider. Another friend signed on after working full time for 20 years and after 3 months was provided with a phone as it is compulsory to have one. He now gets constant texts etc and they are now able to check his internet job search now he has a phone. He is absolutely desperate to get off it and in a recent interview with his job search provider he over heard conversations on the phone of five people being breached for virtually nothing.

There are simply not the jobs anymore with sophisticated machines doing much more of the work.

The vast majority of jobs these days now seem to be part time.

The financial squeeze over the last two decades has clearly increased. Utilitiy bills are a big factor and lots of folks simply do not switch their heaters on in the winter. Beggars everywhere,window washers at traffic lights you name it.

Then in the U.S there is the millions of impoverished part and full time workers. In many major cities you see whole swathes of tents / homeless and it's getting worse by the day.

Then you factor in the modern day chemically grown diet and accessibility to junk food leading to an obesity epidemic that can only be described as catastrophic. (Listen to the George Carlin interview,the funniest clip ive ever listened to by some margin)

For many it's getting better. For the lower skilled and unemployment I'd say it is a lot,lot harder.

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petermac33 said..
For the lower skilled and unemployment I'd say it is a lot,lot harder.

Again opinion. No evidence. The data does not back you up.

Show us the data then. And explain how it contradicts PM33.

Its very hard to maintain my incredible fame on Instagram
Every single day I need to upload inspiring, positive life affirming pictures of my buttocks. Much harder present tense.

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Mr Milk said..
Show us the data then. And explain how it contradicts PM33.

See my first post.

Hilly - my friends is on 275 dollars per week Newstart Allowance and receives NO rental assistance as he lives in a Homeswest (Govt) unit. His rent is 85-90 dollars per week from memory.

He gets some small additional allowances for utility bills and for public transport which he does not use having a car.


Rent - 85 dollars per week

Food and groceries - 150 per week

Petrol - 30 per week

miscellanous - utility bills,car bills,repairs,clothes etc etc - 50

Entertainment - zero

Total comes to 315 dollars and he receives only 275 dollars.

He said to me last night he is not sure how long he going to be able to keep his car for.



Can you please explain in your own words how this is anything but living a life of financial misery for the unemployed?

If the data does not back my figures up - then their data is wrong pure and simple.


Read the link,it has all the payments here.


www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/15/newstart-what-are-the-facts-about-the-unemployment-payment

For the injured , old or ex army I agree . But I don't agree for the able but not working .
I don't understand , why should the unemployed live a life of luxury ?
It should be hard , to make them get a job . Isn't that the idea .?
Why should the unemployed have a car and me pay for it ?
Ride the bus .
I suppose they should also have full nets and the latest phone .?

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petermac33 said..
Hilly - my friends is on 275 dollars per week Newstart Allowance and receives NO rental assistance as he lives in a Homeswest (Govt) unit. His rent is 85-90 dollars per week from memory.

He gets some small additional allowances for utility bills and for public transport which he does not use having a car.


Rent - 85 dollars per week

Food and groceries - 150 per week

Petrol - 30 per week

miscellanous - utility bills,car bills,repairs,clothes etc etc - 50

Entertainment - zero

Total comes to 315 dollars and he receives only 275 dollars.

He said to me last night he is not sure how long he going to be able to keep his car for.



Can you please explain in your own words how this is anything but living a life of financial misery for the unemployed?

If the data does not back my figures up - then their data is wrong pure and simple.


Read the link,it has all the payments here.


www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/15/newstart-what-are-the-facts-about-the-unemployment-payment

Pete you don't understand my point. Compare your mate with an unemployed person from a century ago.

Yes,in the Great Depression I'm sure you are correct.

Compared to 30 years ago - living on the dole is significantly harder at present.

As for not having a car on the dole - it does help a lot to get a job but it's clearly not sustainable owning one on the dole for any long period of time short of having savings or living with your parents.

Living a life of luxury - I am not saying that at all.

Another 50 dollars or so allowance should see them living with some moderate dignity at least.hardly too much to expect?

A society that treats its unemployed with such utter contempt reflects badly on its people not just the Govt.

I agree with Peter. I have heard a few stories about some of these employment assistance things, where it is outsourced to companies. These companies are not really that interested in getting you a job, but trying to get you to sign up with all sorts of schemes in order to meet their targets or get funding.

I have a relation that is in the vocational training area and I am told that its disheartening that amongst the people that sign up for a course for the sake of it, there are lots that sign up for a course because they believe it will give them a job at the end of it, and I am told, most of the time there are not the jobs there to be had.

How stuffed up is that? You get people that are willing to better themselves, go and do a course, and what do they get? The same as if they just hadn't bothered. You can't blame them for losing hope.

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Imax1 said..
For the injured , old or ex army I agree . But I don't agree for the able but not working .
I don't understand , why should the unemployed live a life of luxury ?
It should be hard , to make them get a job . Isn't that the idea .?
Why should the unemployed have a car and me pay for it ?
Ride the bus .
I suppose they should also have full nets and the latest phone .?

All good, and I agree with what you say, IF there are the jobs to be had. If they aren't, and you are getting by on $275 a week, life sucks!

Are there the jobs? I suspect that there are few to none on this forum that have this experience, but I have heard that they are not that easy to come by these days.

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FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
For the injured , old or ex army I agree . But I don't agree for the able but not working .
I don't understand , why should the unemployed live a life of luxury ?
It should be hard , to make them get a job . Isn't that the idea .?
Why should the unemployed have a car and me pay for it ?
Ride the bus .
I suppose they should also have full nets and the latest phone .?

All good, and I agree with what you say, IF there are the jobs to be had. If they aren't, and you are getting by on $275 a week, life sucks!

Are there the jobs? I suspect that there are few to none on this forum that have this experience, but I have heard that they are not that easy to come by these days.

For the most part , most people who really want a job will get one . I understand there are areas of exception .
There is a sliding scale and it's a combo between wanting to work bad enough , and getting by on free benefits and whinging about it .
There are people all over the scale .
9 out of 10 workable people work .
There are other stories of bosses that can't get workers . Probably because it's crap work .
Depends on where you are on the scale.

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Imax1 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
For the injured , old or ex army I agree . But I don't agree for the able but not working .
I don't understand , why should the unemployed live a life of luxury ?
It should be hard , to make them get a job . Isn't that the idea .?
Why should the unemployed have a car and me pay for it ?
Ride the bus .
I suppose they should also have full nets and the latest phone .?

All good, and I agree with what you say, IF there are the jobs to be had. If they aren't, and you are getting by on $275 a week, life sucks!

Are there the jobs? I suspect that there are few to none on this forum that have this experience, but I have heard that they are not that easy to come by these days.

For the most part , most people who really want a job will get one . I understand there are areas of exception .
There is a sliding scale and it's a combo between wanting to work bad enough , and getting by on free benefits and whinging about it .
There are people all over the scale .

How do you know this though? I don't know anyone in this situation, but my relative tells me there are a lot of people that sign up for courses, do well, but never find the jobs that someone promised them.

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FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
For the injured , old or ex army I agree . But I don't agree for the able but not working .
I don't understand , why should the unemployed live a life of luxury ?
It should be hard , to make them get a job . Isn't that the idea .?
Why should the unemployed have a car and me pay for it ?
Ride the bus .
I suppose they should also have full nets and the latest phone .?

All good, and I agree with what you say, IF there are the jobs to be had. If they aren't, and you are getting by on $275 a week, life sucks!

Are there the jobs? I suspect that there are few to none on this forum that have this experience, but I have heard that they are not that easy to come by these days.

For the most part , most people who really want a job will get one . I understand there are areas of exception .
There is a sliding scale and it's a combo between wanting to work bad enough , and getting by on free benefits and whinging about it .
There are people all over the scale .

How do you know this though? I don't know anyone in this situation, but my relative tells me there are a lot of people that sign up for courses, do well, but never find the jobs that someone promised them.

Yeah , I think courses can be a scam but are needed . No job guarantee .
I went to tech school and owned a small buisiness .
My brother went to uni and didn't do much at all.
Go figure .

9 out10 workable people work - I'm afraid these days that is not true,not even close unfortunately. Many years ago I would be inclined to agree but definitely not now.

My downstairs neighbour goes to the library daily to look online for work. I can assure you he is desperate to find a full time job. He is 29 and fit and I see no reason for employers not to give him a chance.

My sister put a good word in for him at the hospital she works.

Tbere were two different positions going - a number of kitchen hand jobs and five positions to clean the rooms etc.

That was two months ago and he's still not heard a word.

There were seemingly so many applications the odds are very low.

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Imax1 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
For the injured , old or ex army I agree . But I don't agree for the able but not working .
I don't understand , why should the unemployed live a life of luxury ?
It should be hard , to make them get a job . Isn't that the idea .?
Why should the unemployed have a car and me pay for it ?
Ride the bus .
I suppose they should also have full nets and the latest phone .?

All good, and I agree with what you say, IF there are the jobs to be had. If they aren't, and you are getting by on $275 a week, life sucks!

Are there the jobs? I suspect that there are few to none on this forum that have this experience, but I have heard that they are not that easy to come by these days.

For the most part , most people who really want a job will get one . I understand there are areas of exception .
There is a sliding scale and it's a combo between wanting to work bad enough , and getting by on free benefits and whinging about it .
There are people all over the scale .

How do you know this though? I don't know anyone in this situation, but my relative tells me there are a lot of people that sign up for courses, do well, but never find the jobs that someone promised them.

Yeah , I think courses can be a scam but are needed . No job guarantee .
I went to tech school and owned a small buisiness .
My brother went to uni and didn't do much at all.
Go figure .

What period are you talking about where you came out of tech school?

When I finished high school in the late 80s, there was a recession on, but there were still traineeships and apprenticeships around. Plus the usual other jobs, and public service jobs. I had some friends that took a while to find jobs after high school, and it took them a few years, but they still found them.

I am just not sure that many jobs are around anymore, and we aren't even in a recession!

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petermac33 said..
9 out10 workable people work - I'm afraid these days that is not true,not even close unfortunately. Many years ago I would be inclined to agree but definitely not now.

My downstairs neighbour goes to the library daily to look online for work. I can assure you he is desperate to find a full time job. He is 29 and fit and I see no reason for employers not to give him a chance.

My sister put a good word in for him at the hospital she works.

Tbere were two different positions going - a number of kitchen hand jobs and five positions to clean the rooms etc.

That was two months ago and he's still not heard a word.

There were seemingly so many applications the odds are very low.

I suppose it depends on where you live .
Out of the closest 100 people to me There would be less than 5 employable that arnt employed. Actually there is none that come to mind . My last kid was the only one , she now works.
I wonder what the average would be of unemployed people that really want to be employed is ?
You must live in a dry job area .

So many jobs these days are not full time,perhaps even the majority so the official figures give a false impression.

Just getting a two hour a day job cleaning offices after hours is difficult these days.

As I said earlier - a society that treats its unemployed with utter contempt reflects badly on its people.

275 dollars a week - talk about subsistence living.

And you better hope that you don't get sacked from your part time job

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/mean-spirited-penny-pinching-government-revives-plan-to-extend-wait-for-newstart-20190919-p52t0q.html

This would be the same government that thinks it is perfectly reasonable for me to move my shares into superannuation and stop paying tax on the dividends

I hear the opposite. Mates that are hiring cannot get anyone to apply. Really hard to find cleaners. Aussies are really picky on what they will apply for.

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hilly said..
I hear the opposite. Mates that are hiring cannot get anyone to apply. Really hard to find cleaners. Aussies are really picky on what they will apply for.

Assuming both arguments are true, what is wrong then?

It seems we DO have people that want to employ, and others that want jobs, so why aren't they finding each other.

The employers are not like those farmers that complain that Aussies are lazy and then say that they are too much trouble to employ because of the paperwork required as well, are they? That bugs me. On the one hand, 'they are lazy' and the other 'I don't want to fill out their paperwork (because I am lazy).

Life is good when you live in a POD

They are both valid POV's for that individuals situation but are very narrow and do not reflect the global situation accurately.
Back on point. Life's good, heading off for a surf.

Absolutely, Aussies don't want to work in retail, it's looked down on. Just look at how many Aussies work in servos. In Sydney it's pretty much none.

Then Aussies whinge about how newstart is too low, yet its about stopping people from dieing, not lifestyle.

My whinging is over.

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bjw said..
Absolutely, Aussies don't want to work in retail, it's looked down on. Just look at how many Aussies work in servos. In Sydney it's pretty much none.

Then Aussies whinge about how newstart is too low, yet its about stopping people from dieing, not lifestyle.

My whinging is over.

My mate was telling me that he only employs illegal Indian workers in his petrol station, as paying the correct wage is too expensive.

How does that fit into your view of Aussies not wanting to work in servos?

I wonder what would happen in the workplace if there were random checks of everyone that worked in different jobs to find out who they were and if they were legitimately employed? I suspect there are a few dodgy things going on. Of course, working holiday makers are fine, and its part of the visa, but I am talking about people getting paid below the minimum.

Your dodgy mate, is doing the wrong thing. It'll work until he or someone gets audited or he has a fall out with an employee and they make the call. It won't be worth it.

Aussies still don't want to work in servos though. That should be obvious.

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bjw said..
Your dodgy mate, is doing the wrong thing. It'll work until he or someone gets audited or he has a fall out with an employee and they make the call. It won't be worth it.

Aussies still don't want to work in servos though. That should be obvious.

Yeah, I agree. I actually lost a bit of respect for him when he told me this. His justification is that 'everyone is doing it' and a casual glance suggests that it may be true, but other than auditing them, how would you know?

I don't think he is the sort of person to screw someone over, so he will be paying them a rate that they are happy with. Its not like he would be turning around and ripping them off, as they know they shouldn't be working, so its unlikely anyone would report him.

Aussies still don't work in servos? I walked into a caltex in Sydney ages ago and found a guy working behind the counter that I hadn't seen since school about 20 years before. He was not exactly academic, but for him its no doubt a good job to pay the bills.

Down at Jindabyne, the people behind the counters at the petrol stations were all Aussie. Every petrol stop along the way to Sydney, they were all Aussies. Until you get to Sydney itself. What does that tell you?

Does it tell you that Aussies don't want to work in Sydney or does that tell you that maybe something else is going on? Is it that the people in Sydney have more choice of work or does it tell you that the employers in Sydney have more choice to employ people at less than award rates?

My friend was telling me it was everywhere and based on his numbers, you couldn't run the business without it. Paid in cash from 'written off stock', and it written down that family members were running the business, so who is to know?

This is all BS when people turn around and say that 'we are short of workers in Australia'.

Staff in the servos where I live are all Anglo/European as far as I notice. But there isn't a big Uni in the area running a degree/migration scam

Sounds like it is different in Sydney than where you guys live. Fair point.

FWA is all about crucifying these companies who pay incorrectly and franchises are going out of their way to audit their franchisees to eliminate underpayments.

People still pay cash and probably always will hire and pay cash. Its not altogether bad. The upside this that cheap little local Thai restaurant, stays cheap and continues to trade.

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bjw said..
Sounds like it is different in Sydney than where you guys live. Fair point.

FWA is all about crucifying these companies who pay incorrectly and franchises are going out of their way to audit their franchisees to eliminate underpayments.

People still pay cash and probably always will hire and pay cash. Its not altogether bad. The upside this that cheap little local Thai restaurant, stays cheap and continues to trade.

I don't think Mr Milk lives all that far from me, and I'm in Sydney. The petrol stations I go to around here though all seem to have Indian employees. Part time students? People with PR? Who knows?

I don't like it that people pay cash for workers, with the emphasis on paying them less or for people not entitled to work. It results in everyone else facing the same costs, so everyone then justifies doing it. - Which probably leads to people claiming Aussies don't want to work, which really means 'Aussies are too expensive'.

I don't know how they look at employment, but in Chile they have this thing where everyone with a shop has to give you a receipt, and it appears on their books. They have random checks, and the implications of data not matching could mean your business being shut down while they investigate. I expect tax compliance is close to 100%, and I expect the same would probably be true of staff records.

I am sure some people will say this is wrong, but it becomes fairer for everyone.