Actually I do.

I thought I'd just Quote the evil lesbian bitch .........Van Badham.

"It's unimaginable to believe anyone, of any political colour, could react to such violent cruelty without sympathy - unless of course, you've encountered the crowd of politicised and woman-hating, murine ****heads who typically crust on social media, in which case you believe it all too well."

ring a bell?

I'd add this follow on quote too - very succinct:

"They repeat memorised myths designed to foment the "angry dads" of the community into a voting bloc and demobilise any political leadership for cultural change. These myths are: that good blokes "pushed too far" almost haplessly murder their partners (they don't), that the family court is a feminist cabal that orchestrates cruelty to men (it isn't) and that men are subjected to female violence at comparable levels as women are by men (they aren't, not remotely)."


Victim blaming is a national sport in this country.

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log man said..
Actually I do.

I thought I'd just Quote the evil lesbian bitch .........Van Badham.

"It's unimaginable to believe anyone, of any political colour, could react to such violent cruelty without sympathy - unless of course, you've encountered the crowd of politicised and woman-hating, murine ****heads who typically crust on social media, in which case you believe it all too well."

ring a bell?

Yes it does ring a bell when you tell these people when can be perpetrators and men victims too. Van Badham is a feminist and Marxist so she has some extreme views

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Shifu said..
I'd add this follow on quote too - very succinct:

"They repeat memorised myths designed to foment the "angry dads" of the community into a voting bloc and demobilise any political leadership for cultural change. These myths are: that good blokes "pushed too far" almost haplessly murder their partners (they don't), that the family court is a feminist cabal that orchestrates cruelty to men (it isn't) and that men are subjected to female violence at comparable levels as women are by men (they aren't, not remotely)."


Victim blaming is a national sport in this country.

No women commit violence just as much as men, there are studies on this stuff. And don't forget the stats are very distorted by the Duluth model. Under the Duluth model if women attacks a man, the man is still recorded as the perpetrator and the woman the victim, hence the stats and hence why I agree victim blaming of men is a national sport.

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Little Jon said..

Shifu said..
I'd add this follow on quote too - very succinct:

"They repeat memorised myths designed to foment the "angry dads" of the community into a voting bloc and demobilise any political leadership for cultural change. These myths are: that good blokes "pushed too far" almost haplessly murder their partners (they don't), that the family court is a feminist cabal that orchestrates cruelty to men (it isn't) and that men are subjected to female violence at comparable levels as women are by men (they aren't, not remotely)."


Victim blaming is a national sport in this country.

No women commit violence just as much as men, there are studies on this stuff. And don't forget the stats are very distorted by the Duluth model. Under the Duluth model if women attacks a man, the man is still recorded as the perpetrator and the woman the victim, hence the stats and hence why I agree victim blaming of men is a national sport.

What studies, where? There are also lots of studies that say men commit more violence, so just saying "there are studies" leads us nowhere.

Who says the stats are very distorted by the Duluth Model?

Why on earth do you apparently assume that the fact that someone is a feminists means they have extreme views? What sort of feminism do you mean? Where is your proof?

As Shifu says, the idea that "good blokes" can be pushed to murders their partners is just bizarre. If you murder your partner you are obviously not a "good bloke".

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Subsonic said..

psychojoe said..

Little Jon said..

Little Jon said..
The DV industry in western countries is a crock of sh%t, the industry is run by a bunch of man hating feminists

Here is today's example
www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/bettina-arndt-hits-back-at-poisonous-side-of-feminism-as-backlash-grows-against-her-australia-day-honour/news-story/88815c46d710763619c70a2d03b6add4

Bettina Arndt has just been stripped of her OA for saying something to the effect of maybe Queensland car fire guy's wife pushed him to do it.
She's a ****up

There's two sides to every story. We're only hearing one, and more than likely thats the only one we will hear.

With the family court system geared the way it is now, it would hardly be a surprise if Bettina was correct.

What? Are you seriously trying to say the the guy was pushed into murdering his children, let alone his wife? You are kidding, aren't you?

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Little Jon said..No women commit violence just as much as men, there are studies on this stuff.

Shifu said..
I'd add this follow on quote too - very succinct:

"They repeat memorised myths designed to foment the "angry dads" of the community into a voting bloc and demobilise any political leadership for cultural change. These myths are: that good blokes "pushed too far" almost haplessly murder their partners (they don't), that the family court is a feminist cabal that orchestrates cruelty to men (it isn't) and that men are subjected to female violence at comparable levels as women are by men (they aren't, not remotely)."

Victim blaming is a national sport in this country.

And don't forget the stats are very distorted by the Duluth model. Under the Duluth model if women attacks a man, the man is still recorded as the perpetrator and the woman the victim, hence the stats and hence why I agree victim blaming of men is a national sport.

Violence is a big range of behaviours. How does it lead to murdering your entire family though?

From what we know, Baxter was offered a reasonable settlement just before murdering his entire family. Does that sound like he was "driven too far", or was he just aN aggressive, out of control murderer?

Nonetheless.... in Australia, how many women were murdered last year by a partner of former partner compared to men? Let's see these "studies" and stats on DV murders.

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Chris 249 said..

Subsonic said..

psychojoe said..

Little Jon said..

Little Jon said..
The DV industry in western countries is a crock of sh%t, the industry is run by a bunch of man hating feminists

Here is today's example
www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/bettina-arndt-hits-back-at-poisonous-side-of-feminism-as-backlash-grows-against-her-australia-day-honour/news-story/88815c46d710763619c70a2d03b6add4

Bettina Arndt has just been stripped of her OA for saying something to the effect of maybe Queensland car fire guy's wife pushed him to do it.
She's a ****up

There's two sides to every story. We're only hearing one, and more than likely thats the only one we will hear.

With the family court system geared the way it is now, it would hardly be a surprise if Bettina was correct.

What? Are you seriously trying to say the the guy was pushed into murdering his children, let alone his wife? You are kidding, aren't you?

The Coroner with his inquest, will absolutely look at this as a possibility that the perpetrator phycology was that damaged by events unknow, this action would be have to be examined as a possible outcome.
We might not like it, but that's how a coronial inquest works, looking at all the possible reasons.

Was this guy on steroids? Just as a guess I would say 'yes'. This seems to create quite excessive aggression in people, so is this why his response was way out, far from reasonable?

I think there was a guy in Carlton (Sydney) that killed his wife a while back in 'roid rage' and I wouldn't be surprised if they had some impact on this situation. I think steroids can take someone with reasonable control of anger and then make them out of control.

Who knows? Without a coronial inquest done, just as a guess I would say the answer is just as likely to be 42.

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mineral1 said..

Chris 249 said..

Subsonic said..

psychojoe said..

Little Jon said..

Little Jon said..
The DV industry in western countries is a crock of sh%t, the industry is run by a bunch of man hating feminists

Here is today's example
www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/bettina-arndt-hits-back-at-poisonous-side-of-feminism-as-backlash-grows-against-her-australia-day-honour/news-story/88815c46d710763619c70a2d03b6add4

Bettina Arndt has just been stripped of her OA for saying something to the effect of maybe Queensland car fire guy's wife pushed him to do it.
She's a ****up

There's two sides to every story. We're only hearing one, and more than likely thats the only one we will hear.

With the family court system geared the way it is now, it would hardly be a surprise if Bettina was correct.

What? Are you seriously trying to say the the guy was pushed into murdering his children, let alone his wife? You are kidding, aren't you?

The Coroner with his inquest, will absolutely look at this as a possibility that the perpetrator phycology was that damaged by events unknow, this action would be have to be examined as a possible outcome.
We might not like it, but that's how a coronial inquest works, looking at all the possible reasons.

you're right, we have to respect the coronial system. But there's a vast difference between being "pushed into it" in the way some have asserted, and having a psychology so damaged that a coroner would find it's not murder. I'm not sure I can recall any coronial inquest saying that someone was "pushed into" murder, even using the terms loosely, and I'd be shocked if there was any such matter.

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holy guacamole said..
Who knows? Without a coronial inquest done, just as a guess I would say the answer is just as likely to be 42.

Nah, the guy ran a gym, and steroids are too easy for some of these guys to 'improve', so I would say the answer is closer to 90%.

All without evidence, I think this is probably part of the problem.

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FormulaNova said..Nah, the guy ran a gym, and steroids are too easy for some of these guys to 'improve', so I would say the answer is closer to 90%.

holy guacamole said..
Who knows? Without a coronial inquest done, just as a guess I would say the answer is just as likely to be 42.

All without evidence, I think this is probably part of the problem.

Mmm. I think it's interesting that you have a guess at the contributing factors and then follow up shortly afterward with a probability of being 90% accurate.

So you say there's no evidence yet, but 90% probable?

Wouldn't it be best we await the pathology and coroner's findings before we make any more guesses?

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holy guacamole said..

FormulaNova said..Nah, the guy ran a gym, and steroids are too easy for some of these guys to 'improve', so I would say the answer is closer to 90%.

holy guacamole said..
Who knows? Without a coronial inquest done, just as a guess I would say the answer is just as likely to be 42.

All without evidence, I think this is probably part of the problem.

Mmm. I think it's interesting that you have a guess at the contributing factors and then follow up shortly afterward with a probability of being 90% accurate.

So you say there's no evidence yet, but 90% probable?

Wouldn't it be best we await the pathology and coroner's findings before we make any more guesses?

No, as I don't even care. The guy was crazy to do something like that. To kill someone, especially the kids, is just loco, and I don't really care how he got there. Speculating is fine as its just speculation.

I am sure there are people out there with hair-trigger tempers, but I am certain that steroid use makes it worse. I am also speculating that steroid use is far higher than it was 20 years ago and seems to have become normalised.

Yeah OK. I have no issue with the hair-trigger temper scenario. It's quite common especially in some men.

I was starting to wonder if this was going to be the next excuse the mysoginist right wing press was going to trot out for murderers.

Thinking about all this, I reckon nothin external could possibly plant the idea in one's head to actually murder one's whole family. It all comes from within.

Without that ideation underpinning all the externalities I simply don't see how one could go through with such a horrid act.

Externalities include the allegation that "maybe he was driven too far".

Maybe, he always had it in him to murder people one day.

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holy guacamole said..

Maybe, he always had it in him to murder people one day.

There is the ability for anyone to commit horrific acts and I would say no one is immune from it.
People that believe they wouldnt or couldnt are usually just kidding themselves.
Understanding and believing exactly what your capable of will help you take responsibility for what you could become and may help keep you from crossing the line

Agreed Jolene. We all have the ability to commit acts of violence. No one would dispute this.

That doesn't address the fact that last year in Australia, 59 women were murdered by male suspects.

It doesn't explain how out of 160 murdered men in total, 151 were murdered by other men.

You can say no one is immune from committing these acts, but the facts on the ground seem to indicate a strong pattern.

We can't ignore these statistics. We need to understand how this happens.

Its a no brainer!

When men cross the line they are more likely to use violence,, they are more deadly than women.

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Jolene said..Its a no brainer! When men cross the line they are more likely to use violence,, they are more deadly than women.

I don't think the answer is that simple but yes I agree that would be a "no brainer".

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FormulaNova said..

holy guacamole said..
Who knows? Without a coronial inquest done, just as a guess I would say the answer is just as likely to be 42.

Nah, the guy ran a gym, and steroids are too easy for some of these guys to 'improve', so I would say the answer is closer to 90%.

All without evidence, I think this is probably part of the problem.

He didn't look like he was on steroids. crossfit guys typically not wanting to get big!

DV discussions always seem very focussed on how people should feel, who holds the blame and what people should be saying all after the event.
most other problems are solved by focussing on the "cause" and taking steps to address this.
I wonder whether the "cause" for DV and "cause" for male suicide are linked ?
one thing is for sure - introducing harsher penalties for breach of DVOs isn't the answer - when someone gets to the point of killing their wife they ain't worried about the penalties!

Select to expand quote

Main said..
DV discussions always seem very focussed on how people should feel, who holds the blame and what people should be saying all after the event.
most other problems are solved by focussing on the "cause" and taking steps to address this.
I wonder whether the "cause" for DV and "cause" for male suicide are linked ?
one thing is for sure - introducing harsher penalties for breach of DVOs isn't the answer - when someone gets to the point of killing their wife they ain't worried about the penalties!

Yeah it's a mess.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. We need to understand what drives men to murder their partners and former partners and children. We need to find ways to help men and women deal with separation and divorce proceedings without feeling like violence is the only resort.

i think one thing that links the perpetrators is the idea of ownership of their wives and partners.

The Department of Justice's rehabilitation program focuses largely on cognitive behavioural therapy.
The commonality between most offenders is that they never developed the ability to process emotions.

I guess the question then is how do we teach all Australians to cope with their emotions.
A greater focus on psychology in the formative years might be a start, but we can't just leave that to the parents, most of the parents at my kid's school can't even control their own emotions (I assume. The size of them makes me think they are emotional eaters.)

And while nothing can excuse what's happened, I can almost guarantee this guy was mistreated as a child, and just never recovered.

I was leaning the opposite way to maltreatment. The man was a pro football player. That probably means he was very good at it when he was young, so he was rewarded for and had dominant behaviour reinforced.
Then he got paid much more than most young men do for a few years, so got used to having money. No real idea of what to do for a living post football, so goes into personal fitness, a very competitive industry, and finds he has a much smaller income and bigger expenses with a family.
She might or might not have married him with a similar rose-tinted glasses view of their financial future, but he is used to her adulation and finds it a shock when she is leaving, along with a 20 year tail of much of his income.
He resolves that suicide is the easy option and figures in for a penny, in for a pound. Thus the whole family goes.
The root cause is over privilege.

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log man said..
i think one thing that links the perpetrators is the idea of ownership of their wives and partners.

could be one of many...
- jealousy
- perceived injustice from court system
- spite
- anger management
- drugs
- depression
there would be heaps of reasons to commit DV. The solution I suspect may have a long lead time.....

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holy guacamole said..

Little Jon said..No women commit violence just as much as men, there are studies on this stuff.

Shifu said..
I'd add this follow on quote too - very succinct:

"They repeat memorised myths designed to foment the "angry dads" of the community into a voting bloc and demobilise any political leadership for cultural change. These myths are: that good blokes "pushed too far" almost haplessly murder their partners (they don't), that the family court is a feminist cabal that orchestrates cruelty to men (it isn't) and that men are subjected to female violence at comparable levels as women are by men (they aren't, not remotely)."

Victim blaming is a national sport in this country.

And don't forget the stats are very distorted by the Duluth model. Under the Duluth model if women attacks a man, the man is still recorded as the perpetrator and the woman the victim, hence the stats and hence why I agree victim blaming of men is a national sport.

Violence is a big range of behaviours. How does it lead to murdering your entire family though?

From what we know, Baxter was offered a reasonable settlement just before murdering his entire family. Does that sound like he was "driven too far", or was he just aN aggressive, out of control murderer?

Nonetheless.... in Australia, how many women were murdered last year by a partner of former partner compared to men? Let's see these "studies" and stats on DV murders.

So it ok for a women to be "driven too far"but not a man, Bettina chose those words for a reason. The Cairns women murdered all 7 of her children plus another so women are the clear record holders. And don't forget this women was found not guilty

No it's far from OK Little John. No one's saying it's OK.

The point is, despite the isolated examples of women murdering partners, former partners and children, the vast majority of alleged murder perpetrators are men.

This is not my personal view, it's the reality.

How you choose to interpret that reality, is your choice.

Now as an opinion, versus the facts, I reckon Bettina Arndt is a disgrace.

She's not disseminating some well considered wisdom, just more vitriol about her paranoid right wing beliefs that "we're all out to get those evil men" and that "the men are the true victims".

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holy guacamole said..
No it's far from OK Little John. No one's saying it's OK.

The point is, despite the isolated examples of women murdering partners, former partners and children, the vast majority of alleged murder perpetrators are men.

This is not my personal view, it's the reality.

How you choose to interpret that reality, is your choice.

Now as an opinion, versus the facts, I reckon Bettina Arndt is a disgrace.

She's not disseminating some well considered wisdom, just more vitriol about her paranoid right wing beliefs that "we're all out to get those evil men" and that "the men are the true victims".

The point is, language matters. "Driven to" suggests external factors. I thought that was put to bed in the first few pages of this thread.

The reality is, men are overwhelmingly the victims of violence.
But for whatever reason you're focusing in a particular subset, and in doing so you're choosing to ignore the 1 in 5 men that experience domestic violence.

1 in 5 men, and 1 in 3 women. Those aren't right wing statistics.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Australia

If it's not ok, it's not ok full stop.

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Main said..
DV discussions always seem very focussed on how people should feel, who holds the blame and what people should be saying all after the event.
most other problems are solved by focussing on the "cause" and taking steps to address this.
I wonder whether the "cause" for DV and "cause" for male suicide are linked ?
one thing is for sure - introducing harsher penalties for breach of DVOs isn't the answer - when someone gets to the point of killing their wife they ain't worried about the penalties!

yeah its like some drug dealer decides to steal $10m from his south american drug lord supplier, so the drug lord orders his murder which is wrong and illegal but people tend to think well what did you expect. Similarly SOME women get up to all sorts of incredibly nasty spiteful behaviours and yet somehow there is an expectation there will not be any consequences.

Furthermore, some of these behaviours like preventing access is recognised by law as a form of domestic violence and the WHO also recognise it as a form of child abuse. Because of the "more women are victims so male victims should be ignored" ideology or the "they don't exist" ideology that pervades the DV industry these issues are escalating and retaliating. Some of these incidences may of been preventable.