Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
82 down/38 up

I get about half that on Sky Muster.

4.1 bps down and 1.9 bps up (on a sunny day, with no clouds)



Oh hang on, I got the decimal point in the wrong place.

Oh hang on hang on, you mean Mbps.




Oh how we dream of numbers like that.




edit : I am using the local to here units of "bps" as bits per every second Sunday and not the traditional usage elsewhere.

You are whining about a service where you could get 40mbps down and probably 100kbps up. It just doesn't work very well with TCP or VPNs and especially TCP over VPNs.

But otherwise, what are you complaining about. That's excellent speed if you were somehow streaming audio with UDP.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
You are whining about a service where you could get 40mbps down and probably 100kbps up. It just doesn't work very well...

"could" and "probably" are just that. Not often I get those numbers, tens or low hundreds of kpbs is the reality.

Just think though..... You know how quick witted I am now.... well imagine how much betterer I will be when I can post twice as much in the same amount of time.

Laurie should start paying me royalties like Youtube does.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
You are whining about a service where you could get 40mbps down and probably 100kbps up. It just doesn't work very well...

"could" and "probably" are just that. Not often I get those numbers, tens or low hundreds of kpbs is the reality.

Just think though..... You know how quick witted I am now.... well imagine how much betterer I will be when I can post twice as much in the same amount of time.

Laurie should start paying me royalties like Youtube does.

Trust me. I was evaluating exactly this information as I was mentioning starlink.

Perhaps we can block the IP addresses from starlink services?... wouldn't want you to burn yourself out now. Will we see mscien type bursts of activity? I am sure the starlink terms of service exclude that type of use.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
I was seeing if anyone had an actual real experience with Starlink. One query is where to put it and how visually obstructive it is. Maybe I'll just stick it on the stables then I won't have to worry.

I decided to take a photo or two of the Starlink antenna today. I hope I get good signal...

I guess this photo puts it into perspective how big these things are. Carantoc you are going to need a new estate to mount this one.



I have driven past this thing heaps of times before finally figuring out what it was. Well, I thought I figured out what it is, but it could be a hidden link to our Alien overlords for all I know... I now know it is NOT a Starlink antenna

It came last week.

Now my starlink dish is smaller than the dish that the first sat phone I had was.

It is also lighter than the first mobile phone I had.


Plug and play. Nobody need to come around to get it running.

Speedtest Oolooka used to give me 40Mbs / 5mbs on NBN satellite, I am now getting 260/50Mbps

But that is only half the story.



VPN connections used to be unusable, both copying files between locations and running remote apps.

Now I can run software as a terminal over a VPN with almost no lag. Hardly a noticeable difference to having the software on my harddrive.

File transfers use to click over at bps. Literally - yes bps not kbps, they would run at bps..... 5bps ....................... 5bps ......................... 9bps ..................................................... 2bps....... 8 hours for a 500kb file.

Now they fly at in the units of Mbps.


The difference between NBN sat and starlink is bigger than my 4g mobile to my briefcase brick mobile in 1985.

How come NBN didn't do whatever it is starlink do ?

$139/month unlimited, all the VPN access I want and usable vs $120/month capped data, VPNs blocked and unusable for what I need.


What did this NBN cost us taxpayers ?

I used to hate Musk as a being a cockhead. Now I'm starting to think Macro might be on to something.....

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
I guess this photo puts it into perspective how big these things are. Carantoc you are going to need a new estate to mount this one.



I have driven past this thing heaps of times before finally figuring out what it was. Well, I thought I figured out what it is, but it could be a hidden link to our Alien overlords for all I know... I now know it is NOT a Starlink antenna

Lucky you
don't remember my
early warnings about
emerging technology(few years ago here on SB)
that could substitute NBN
fiber and cost as
as a nation
nothing,
ZERO
NILL
not 80 bln.
But we are
all
not
a futurists that could guess what next.
Are we ?

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
It came last week.

Now my starlink dish is smaller than the dish that the first sat phone I had was.

It is also lighter than the first mobile phone I had.


Plug and play. Nobody need to come around to get it running.

Speedtest Oolooka used to give me 40Mbs / 5mbs on NBN satellite, I am now getting 260/50Mbps

But that is only half the story.



VPN connections used to be unusable, both copying files between locations and running remote apps.

Now I can run software as a terminal over a VPN with almost no lag. Hardly a noticeable difference to having the software on my harddrive.

File transfers use to click over at bps. Literally - yes bps not kbps, they would run at bps..... 5bps ....................... 5bps ......................... 9bps ..................................................... 2bps....... 8 hours for a 500kb file.

Now they fly at in the units of Mbps.


The difference between NBN sat and starlink is bigger than my 4g mobile to my briefcase brick mobile in 1985.

How come NBN didn't do whatever it is starlink do ?

$139/month unlimited, all the VPN access I want and usable vs $120/month capped data, VPNs blocked and unusable for what I need.


What did this NBN cost us taxpayers ?

I used to hate Musk as a being a cockhead. Now I'm starting to think Macro might be on to something.....

Lucky you
don't remember my
early warnings about
emerging technology(few years ago here on SB)
that could substitute NBN
fiber and cost as
as a nation
nothing,
ZERO
NILL
not 80 bln.
But we are
all
not
a futurists that could guess what next.
Are we ?
BTW> love your last sentence

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
It came last week.

Now my starlink dish is smaller than the dish that the first sat phone I had was.

It is also lighter than the first mobile phone I had.


Plug and play. Nobody need to come around to get it running.

Speedtest Oolooka used to give me 40Mbs / 5mbs on NBN satellite, I am now getting 260/50Mbps

But that is only half the story.



VPN connections used to be unusable, both copying files between locations and running remote apps.

Now I can run software as a terminal over a VPN with almost no lag. Hardly a noticeable difference to having the software on my harddrive.
...
How come NBN didn't do whatever it is starlink do ?

$139/month unlimited, all the VPN access I want and usable vs $120/month capped data, VPNs blocked and unusable for what I need.


What did this NBN cost us taxpayers ?

I used to hate Musk as a being a cockhead. Now I'm starting to think Macro might be on to something.....

You may have noticed that SpaceX is used to launch all these micro satellites. It requires a lot of capital to commit to something like this and someone with a few spare billion dollars can do it. For others, it wouldn't get past the stakeholder phase as no one would commit to risking money on something that may or may not pay its own way.

Why can't NBN do this? Because its a new technology and requires thousands of satellites to be in low earth orbit. Hardly something the NBN could do.

Its a shame that your satellite connection was not that good. Its the latency that kills it when you run a VPN over the top. Oh well, its a limitation of the technology.

You are just lucky that you bought in at about the same time they started to being able to deliver.

Have you tallied up the total cost and apportioned it over a year or two? It's a bit more than "$139 a month", but in your case the existing connection was next to useless.

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..
I guess this photo puts it into perspective how big these things are. Carantoc you are going to need a new estate to mount this one.



I have driven past this thing heaps of times before finally figuring out what it was. Well, I thought I figured out what it is, but it could be a hidden link to our Alien overlords for all I know... I now know it is NOT a Starlink antenna

Lucky you
don't remember my
early warnings about
emerging technology(few years ago here on SB)
that could substitute NBN
fiber and cost as
as a nation
nothing,
ZERO
NILL
not 80 bln.
But we are
all
not
a futurists that could guess what next.
Are we ?

Oh please. Anyone can dream up an idea, but few have the skills to carry it through to a product. I am sure I "invented" as many things as you have when I was a child.

Someone famous has some quote about this same thing. That anyone can dream, but it takes talent to turn it into an actual delivered product.

I have a friend that tells me the same thing "It's better than NBN and only $139 a month"... well, in his case the NBN for $49 a month delivers enough for almost anyone, and he is in a great 4G/5G coverage area, so that is good enough too. Would you spend $139 a month plus $900 for equipment if you had 100/20 on NBN with a $100 modem?

Like you, he just wanted to compare it to NBN so he didn't know that there was a substantial cost for the router and it wasn't even really available at the time. He hears the "price" from someone else and doesn't think past that.

Starlink is probably not a good substitute for NBN. Even Musk says it is not ideal for high density areas. But you should know this as you have considered how it works, yes? If you don't have you considered how it would scale to deliver bandwidth to 7000 users in a small area? What size uplinks would you use? How many satellites would you need to deploy? Is it even physically possible?

Your idea sucks.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..
I guess this photo puts it into perspective how big these things are. Carantoc you are going to need a new estate to mount this one.



I have driven past this thing heaps of times before finally figuring out what it was. Well, I thought I figured out what it is, but it could be a hidden link to our Alien overlords for all I know... I now know it is NOT a Starlink antenna

Lucky you
don't remember my
early warnings about
emerging technology(few years ago here on SB)
that could substitute NBN
fiber and cost as
as a nation
nothing,
ZERO
NILL
not 80 bln.
But we are
all
not
a futurists that could guess what next.
Are we ?

Oh please. Anyone can dream up an idea, but few have the skills to carry it through to a product. I am sure I "invented" as many things as you have when I was a child.

Someone famous has some quote about this same thing. That anyone can dream, but it takes talent to turn it into an actual delivered product.

I have a friend that tells me the same thing "It's better than NBN and only $139 a month"... well, in his case the NBN for $49 a month delivers enough for almost anyone, and he is in a great 4G/5G coverage area, so that is good enough too. Would you spend $139 a month plus $900 for equipment if you had 100/20 on NBN with a $100 modem?

Like you, he just wanted to compare it to NBN so he didn't know that there was a substantial cost for the router and it wasn't even really available at the time. He hears the "price" from someone else and doesn't think past that.

Starlink is probably not a good substitute for NBN. Even Musk says it is not ideal for high density areas. But you should know this as you have considered how it works, yes? If you don't have you considered how it would scale to deliver bandwidth to 7000 users in a small area? What size uplinks would you use? How many satellites would you need to deploy? Is it even physically possible?

Your idea sucks.

Well, with such starlink speed and shirt delay, you could easy share cone tion by wifi in high density environment. Then spli the cost. By two and is equal what I pay for my cable. By 3 and is cheaper. My wifi on farm has 500 m range. The nearest neighbour 2km. So sharing doesn't work. In the city differen story. On my scrounge I could have 10 neighbours at least in this radius at gc city center, you possibly even more.
Yep, I understand your concern. We could easy as nation stack with redundant 80 bln cash.
What on he'll you could with such money this days. Can eat that much or travel.

Yep, fair enough. It also cost $800 upfront for the hardware.

But the NBN satellite also cost for installation. Don't recall what.

And yep, I don't think I'd go anywhere near it if I had fibre. Even ADSL on copper was fine for me, never had a complaint really.

But, when the grubberment decides you have to have NBN or nothing, NBN won't install kms of fibre for one property (like they ever would), you don't have 4G/5G and Telstra decide they cannot provide you with anything at all (no reason they couldn't keep me on copper except NBN wants the revenue for a lesser service), then I am pretty sure it is 1,000 times better than anything else. Anything else being NBN satellite.

Latency on NBN sat is about 600ms, starlink I'm getting 20 to 40ms. Yes, the height of the satellite is most of that.

But I am not all that sold on the high orbit few satellite, large area coverage is the only viable thing for NBN vs low orbit many satellite but small area coverage.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
You are whining about a service where you could get 40mbps down and probably 100kbps up. It just doesn't work very well...

"could" and "probably" are just that. Not often I get those numbers, tens or low hundreds of kpbs is the reality.

Just think though..... You know how quick witted I am now.... well imagine how much betterer I will be when I can post twice as much in the same amount of time.

Laurie should start paying me royalties like Youtube does.

And how much are you going to spend that much money coming in royalties from Laurie? Yep, I have great idea. I could open charity and you could then transfer money to pay food for my starving cattle. Win win. Happy cattle.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
Yep, fair enough. It also cost $800 upfront for the hardware.

But the NBN satellite also cost for installation. Don't recall what.

And yep, I don't think I'd go anywhere near it if I had fibre. Even ADSL on copper was fine for me, never had a complaint really.

But, when the grubberment decides you have to have NBN or nothing, NBN won't install kms of fibre for one property (like they ever would), you don't have 4G/5G and Telstra decide they cannot provide you with anything at all (no reason they couldn't keep me on copper except NBN wants the revenue for a lesser service), then I am pretty sure it is 1,000 times better than anything else. Anything else being NBN satellite.

Latency on NBN sat is about 600ms, starlink I'm getting 20 to 40ms. Yes, the height of the satellite is most of that.

But I am not all that sold on the high orbit few satellite, large area coverage is the only viable thing for NBN vs low orbit many satellite but small area coverage.

Yep just observe your latency carefully. If is dropping from 20ms to 5 and then1 ms it means next solar storm throw back Elon satellites back to earth. I hate to see one of those hitting my poor cattle in the paddock again.

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..
next solar storm throw back Elon satellites back to earth. I hate to see one of those hitting my poor cattle in the paddock again.

Ummm, I'd ask but I don't think I want to.

You sure it wasn't a falling windmill tower ?

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
But I am not all that sold on the high orbit few satellite, large area coverage is the only viable thing for NBN vs low orbit many satellite but small area coverage.

I don't know what you are saying exactly there, but I will have a stab. Please correct me if I had made incorrect assumptions.

High orbit satellites are that high because that is the only geostationary orbit. Even then they have to carry fuel to adjust their orbits as they move slightly. The lifespan of a satellite is often dictated by its fuel load, and in some cases can go on for much longer than expected by good manmagement (or luck) in managing this.

Low earth orbit on the other hand is only possible if the satellites keep moving... fast. Have a look at the Starlink tracker and you will see the paths that they follow.

The only way to keep coverage for an area is to have so many satellites that you have overlapping coverage. The way Starlink/SpaceX have done this is by launching a lot and this is only really justified by having them as auxillary cargo on spaceflights. Also technology has caught up and made small satellites cheap enough that they can afford to have lots and lose lots and still be economic.

So, you can only have LEO satellite coverage with lots and lots of satellites, which means you virtually have to cover the planet for even only one service location. Who would pay for that?

In Macro's response, I think he hasn't thought through the bandwidth required for these satellites to deliver to thousands of subscribers in a single area. One user getting 200/30 in a rural area is okay, but 10,000 is a different story. You suddenly have to deliver up to 2 thousand Gigabits or more to a satellite, and 2,000,000 megabits is a big number to deliver anywhere. Easy enough on fiber, but much harder on a single connection to a fast moving satellite.

Then you have to uplinbk this to many satellites that are in range in order to cover the area you need to cover. Quickly you will find out that delivering internet to so many people can be difficult.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

Macroscien said..
next solar storm throw back Elon satellites back to earth. I hate to see one of those hitting my poor cattle in the paddock again.

Ummm, I'd ask but I don't think I want to.

You sure it wasn't a falling windmill tower ?

Well, we know if it was the windmill that it is no longer a problem.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..

Macroscien said..
next solar storm throw back Elon satellites back to earth. I hate to see one of those hitting my poor cattle in the paddock again.

Ummm, I'd ask but I don't think I want to.

You sure it wasn't a falling windmill tower ?

Nope,
all cattle are sound and happy
Windmill indeed disintegrated, full speed and one blade hit me straight in the head
Blade is still there,
But I am ok
as everybody see

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
It came last week.

Now my starlink dish is smaller than the dish that the first sat phone I had was.

It is also lighter than the first mobile phone I had.


Plug and play. Nobody need to come around to get it running.

Speedtest Oolooka used to give me 40Mbs / 5mbs on NBN satellite, I am now getting 260/50Mbps
....

I just set mine up after having it sit around for a week. They start billing you whether you have used it or not so I figured I may as well.

I am only getting 209Mbps downstream and 15Mbps upstream.

I am a bit surprised by the setup. The diagram suggests downloading an app on your phone to set it up, but it wouldn't download.

Instead, I just connected, changed the wifi setup, and it did the rest. I moved it a bit to ensure a clear view of the sky, and it handled re-orinetating itself. Very impressive.

You won't know what to do now with a fast internet connection you have nothing to complain about. You can chat realtime with macro and compare the cow situations.

The surprising thing is that once your account is active, even if you have never setup the dish, you can change your service address online. I suspect it warns you if it doesn't expect to work, but otherwise it just sticks, and warns you that it may not guarantee service in all areas.

For you this must be a revelation, being almost good as your old copper DSL link

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..
Well, with such starlink speed and shirt delay, you could easy share cone tion by wifi in high density environment. Then spli the cost. By two and is equal what I pay for my cable. By 3 and is cheaper. My wifi on farm has 500 m range. The nearest neighbour 2km. So sharing doesn't work. In the city differen story. On my scrounge I could have 10 neighbours at least in this radius at gc city center, you possibly even more.
Yep, I understand your concern. We could easy as nation stack with redundant 80 bln cash.
What on he'll you could with such money this days. Can eat that much or travel.

You could share your wifi to a neighbour 2kms away easily if you have line of sight. Lots of people started doing this in the early days of wifi and shared T1 links.

Actually, if you look at the locations for the Starlink uplinks, they are not surprisingly, located close to NBN hub locations. I know that Wagin in WA (the location I took the photo in) is close to Katanning, which serves as one of the WA NBN distribution points. I doubt this is just a coincidence. High speed fibre is not running all over the place in country WA.

In effect, Starlink will be using the NBN infrastructure to get the high speed internet feeds it needs.

Makes you wonder if this would happen without NBN? It probably would, but be more expensive, as no doubt these paths existed before NBN, but only got huge speed upgrades as part of the NBN infrastructure rollout. Its much nicer when you can roll this out in the beginning instead of waiting for your subscriber numbers to get high enough to justify the cost.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
FormulaNova said..

Good to hear good news coming now from the stars !!

I even downgraded now both of you,
from the top MACRO ENEMY drawer
to just MACRO CRITICS drawer below.

That is very healthy to have some critics
looking at you , so that is perfect arrangement and safe for me.

My bottom drawer marked MACRO FRIENDS is still empty, but some drawers between are filling up.

Well, the blade in my head is still a bit itchy.

Now , if by a chance my cattle my
cattle strike me in the head
with hoofs or horns
I may even order Starling as
you guys.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..
I was seeing if anyone had an actual real experience with Starlink. One query is where to put it and how visually obstructive it is. Maybe I'll just stick it on the stables then I won't have to worry.

I decided to take a photo or two of the Starlink antenna today. I hope I get good signal...

Looks familiar


Tesla always being Tesla.
Reincarnation ? or never died? just changed a skin?

The concept of disposable low orbit micro-satellites is not one afforded to anyone else in history. Elon Musk has established this as a side business for his SPACE-X venture - the sheer tenacity, speculation and execution is right up there for me as a human achievement. The future impact on the 3rd world if it continues as proposed - outstanding.

The traffic load is a hard one to establish without knowing about the complete infrastructure picture. So the number of down link sites to get on the WWW. around any given area.. versus demand uptake.. a real tail chase..

The neat concept is it has proven to gazump the shoddy yet expensive mish-mash that has plucked the original NBN concept in "overlooked" areas of our country. Certainly within 30 minutes drive from Sunshine coast where I live the availability of what I take for granted is not guaranteed to be there. I am on FTTN and original copper no g8 shakes but well beyond current need.

Not sure when rumour changes to fact... Rumour is that like a mobile phone you will be able to have a mobile starlink base which for a number of use cases will be awesome for Australia. Outback tick, grey nomads tick mobile businesses tick boats/yatchs tick, storm weather bust infra-structure tick, black spot tick.. But a vulnerability (all orbital electronics) is the occasional solar storm - my impression is that for cost purposes the satellites which get hit go out and are replaced - but stand to be corrected.

An example for me - I was approx 80 kms off Qld coast at Lady Musgrave (coral atoll) for xmas. Cyclone was brewing up north and without a satellite phone weather forecast reception would have been primitive. Starlink - would be perfect for this.

If you have poor service ATM check out ABC review as a reference..
www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-14/elon-musk-starlink-operating-australia-what-is-it/100062862

cheers
AP

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..
I was seeing if anyone had an actual real experience with Starlink. One query is where to put it and how visually obstructive it is. Maybe I'll just stick it on the stables then I won't have to worry.

I decided to take a photo or two of the Starlink antenna today. I hope I get good signal...

thanks
I just realized that i have
Starling tower on my farm already

Probably left by previous civilization
but still should work !

only don't know
where to plug in WiFi router

How timely. Something worth reading on the ABC.

www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-03-07/telstra-partners-with-oneweb-internet-starlink-sky-muster/100879242

"We have not been referring customers to the NBN Sky Muster service," Telstra general counsel Lyndall Stoyles told the ABC. "We haven't seen that it's delivered the quality that people have expected from that service and paid for the service . and we end up having to then deal with the complaints and the issues associated with the service."

Mmmmm, think I might have just changed my opinion of Telstra.

After the years of Telstra having a regulated obligation to deliver a service to everyone I thought they wouldn't deliver me a service because they were bastards. Turns out they simply refused to on-sell ****e.


The government will reportedly set aside millions in the upcoming budget to upgrade the NBN network to fight off Starlink.

WTF ? Why are we back to having state owned enterprises competing in the market ? I'd support a government owned Telco being obliged to provide a service country-wide if there was no other option, but when the service is being offered by the market - and competition is coming into that market, why is the government determine to spend taxpayer dollars supporting a state owned competitor that is worse than the free market delivers ? Is it 1975 or did Albo win an election I missed or something ?

I think we are long past needing a government owned telco here in Aus. That went when Telstra was privatized in such a bungled way. Sky Muster and Starlink prove my point, so don't argue.



Oh yeah - gotta to try to not forget : Can anyone tell me if this will be a better way to purchase wind sports equipment from any of the excellent advertisers on Seabreeze.com.au - the premier forum for all wind and water based activities.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
Oh yeah - gotta to try to not forget : Can anyone tell me if this will be a better way to purchase wind sports equipment from any of the excellent advertisers on Seabreeze.com.au - the premier forum for all wind and water based activities.

Yep,
advertise yourself as a CLEANER
in CLASSIFIED SECTION.
People pay this days a lot of money to clean up their garages, homes and storages.
So you could get paid
for all this water equipment you
could suck in
into your all weather wet and dry vacuum.

PS. Be carefull !
Do not suck in their pets and cattle
when cleaning.
It could be only hassle to feed the cattle
when dry season come back.

one more

Don't even try to suck
a bull for a milk
with you wet and dry vacuum !

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
How timely. Something worth reading on the ABC.

www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-03-07/telstra-partners-with-oneweb-internet-starlink-sky-muster/100879242

"We have not been referring customers to the NBN Sky Muster service," Telstra general counsel Lyndall Stoyles told the ABC. "We haven't seen that it's delivered the quality that people have expected from that service and paid for the service . and we end up having to then deal with the complaints and the issues associated with the service."

Mmmmm, think I might have just changed my opinion of Telstra.

After the years of Telstra having a regulated obligation to deliver a service to everyone I thought they wouldn't deliver me a service because they were bastards. Turns out they simply refused to on-sell ****e.


The government will reportedly set aside millions in the upcoming budget to upgrade the NBN network to fight off Starlink.

WTF ? Why are we back to having state owned enterprises competing in the market ? I'd support a government owned Telco being obliged to provide a service country-wide if there was no other option, but when the service is being offered by the market - and competition is coming into that market, why is the government determine to spend taxpayer dollars supporting a state owned competitor that is worse than the free market delivers ? Is it 1975 or did Albo win an election I missed or something ?

I think we are long past needing a government owned telco here in Aus. That went when Telstra was privatized in such a bungled way. Sky Muster and Starlink prove my point, so don't argue.



Oh yeah - gotta to try to not forget : Can anyone tell me if this will be a better way to purchase wind sports equipment from any of the excellent advertisers on Seabreeze.com.au - the premier forum for all wind and water based activities.

It's a bit hypocritical of Telstra saying that SkyMuster is rubbish. Sure, they don't suggest/recommend it, but its not like they are offering an alternative either. We seem to have moved from being impressed that we can have internet at all in remote areas to requiring that we have fast low latency internet almost everywhere.

I don't see Telstra offering to install a new 3/4/5G tower near you to help with your coverage problems.

It really wasn't that long ago that getting 3G data coverage anywhere rural was impressive.

I doubt that NBN will really be able to help those last few percent of customers that are remote and only have skymuster access. It's hard to beat Starlink in those places as its already there, and for a lot of people SkyMuster will meet most of their needs.

yeah, but yeah...but nah....

Telstra are doing something, they teaming up with somebody. You could argue it took them a while, but I don't think you can say they aren't doing anything.

And they are supposed to deliver the service over the NBN. That was the whole point of the NBN. One owner of one set of fixed assets. The Telcos buy wholesale access and retail it, but everything via NBN.

I don't see any difference to the argument about Telstra on-selling NBN depending on what medium the NBN provide to Telstra to on-sell.


Why say Telstra should have installed 5G because NBN wouldn't provide a service ? Telstra were supposed to be able to provide 100% of properties via NBN. If they can't it wasn't supposed to be the Telcos job to install or own the hardware.


What if Telstra decided the entire NBN network was rubbish and teamed up with all the other Telcos, started from scratch ripping up every street again, installing FTTP and bypassing the NBN 100% everywhere ? I don't think they are allowed to. So why would they be responsible for NBN services in certain cases but not others ?


By your argument you are admitting the entire NBN was one giant government folly# and individual Telco's should each be responsible for meeting the market requirements of delivering access. The entire point of the NBN was one service, one owner, 100% coverage



# glad you finally agree with my argument for the last 10 years



EDIT : sorry : is a 8.5m2 fully cammed red sail faster than a 8.5m2 fully cammed blue sail ?

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Carantoc said..
EDIT : sorry : is a 8.5m2 fully cammed red sail faster than a 8.5m2 fully cammed blue sail ?

I am not sure of the colour, but I can tell you a 8.5m cammed race sail is faster than a 5.7m wave sail when you weigh 95kgs and are sailing Dahab... despite the protests from a few locals that 'the sail is too big'.

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yeah, but yeah...but nah....

Telstra are doing something, they teaming up with somebody. You could argue it took them a while, but I don't think you can say they aren't doing anything.

And they are supposed to deliver the service over the NBN. That was the whole point of the NBN. One owner of one set of fixed assets. The Telcos buy wholesale access and retail it, but everything via NBN.

I don't see any difference to the argument about Telstra on-selling NBN depending on what medium the NBN provide to Telstra to on-sell.

Why say Telstra should have installed 5G because NBN wouldn't provide a service ? Telstra were supposed to be able to provide 100% of properties via NBN. If they can't it wasn't supposed to be the Telcos job to install or own the hardware.

What if Telstra decided the entire NBN network was rubbish and teamed up with all the other Telcos, started from scratch ripping up every street again, installing FTTP and bypassing the NBN 100% everywhere ? I don't think they are allowed to. So why would they be responsible for NBN services in certain cases but not others ?

By your argument you are admitting the entire NBN was one giant government folly# and individual Telco's should each be responsible for meeting the market requirements of delivering access. The entire point of the NBN was one service, one owner, 100% coverage

Telstra are "teaming up" with a service that may still be a few years away. What is their teaming up really? Just an agreement to use the service when and if its available?

I think, and this is not a guarantee, that NBN was to deliver internet services to the entire nation, but I am not sure if it was 100%. The bar set though is not that high and I am sure SkyMuster meets this requirement. I think the standard was actually quite low.

I also 'think' that companies like Telstra and Optus sold some of their infrastructure to NBN Co, but they are allowed to compete.

By all means if you can find something that says that people must use NBN, let me know what it is. My understanding was that the NBN was introduced as a way to provide access to everyone at an affordable rate, but to avoid pissing off existing ISPs, they made it a virtual service so that the ISPs could use the NBN infrastructure if they wanted.

That said, I used to work for a Telco where services would be rolled out in opposition to NBN services when needed, but generally where NBN services were available, it was easier and faster to deploy over them. People discount this, but NBN has changed the ability to get access to a lot of places and makes things a lot faster and cheaper. In the past a connection may require a new fibre build, which may or may not be economical. Now, if the NBN is already there or close-by, its a no brainer.

Telcos could team up and provide access to customers, and at least for businesses, some Telcos do. Whether it is economic is a different question, and NBN has brought that price down, which means that the competitors product has to be at least as cheap... which can be difficult if you don't already have fibre in the ground.

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# glad you finally agree with my argument for the last 10 years

Are you really Kiterboy? As in his arguments, just making the statement does not make it true.

Here you go, read the USG fact sheet:
www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/usg_fact_sheet.pdf

Interestingly Telstra have to provide fixed voice services on request until 2032. It also says that it provides ADSL services on some of these lines. (Makes me wonder if you could have gotten broadband over the old copper?)

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Telstra provide these services for the love of it. The government and other Telcos fund it. Telcos can offer to bid to provide these USO services, and they get funding for it.

Read this too if you are bored

www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/universal-service-guarantee-usg-3september2021.pdf