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randomfoiler said..

omg said..
+1 to the question above. I ha ve been thinking about the same, would a 85L 6' x 19" DW style board do the trick for a 80kg winger as an alround board with better waterspeed before foiling and also much better carving due to being narrower than "normal' 85L board? Haven't seen anyone answering this one?

Can't tell you (yet) but surely hope so.
I'll get the "baby dragon" 88L (6.6x18) at some point soonish and intend to use it primarily for light wind winging @75kg...

For an ultimate ease of getting going with a small foil and small wing you want the board to have enough volume, so there wouldn't be water on top of the board while getting going. For me (72 kg) the sweet spot with a wing is 6'9'' x 18.5'', 95 L. Such dimensions are still fun to ride both in light and stronger winds too.

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omg said..
+1 to the question above. I ha ve been thinking about the same, would a 85L 6' x 19" DW style board do the trick for a 80kg winger as an alround board with better waterspeed before foiling and also much better carving due to being narrower than "normal' 85L board? Haven't seen anyone answering this one?

For me (95kg) a 6'2 x 20 x 90l does the trick. Pops up way faster than a "normal" 90l board d. waaay faster ..

Now that I've used a mini-DW "inspired" design a bit, I think there are some unique factors that winging brings into the equation that aren't as relevant to DW sup, and I'm wondering whether the winging boards will eventually be adapted for these factors. The most glaring "wing-specific" condition, is cross-grained situations, which are pretty common on the wing (for me at least) and I don't think are as common for DW sup. These cross-grained situations require a level of stability that these boards don't seem to prioritize. As soon as you point downwind the board is easy to balance, but cross is very tricky. To me, this makes sense given what these boards were intended to do.

I've only gotten 3 sessions on the board and I'm still figuring it out. There are situations where these narrower faster boards clearly excel (cleaner conditions, lightwind), but there are also limitations.

Very interested to see how these designs evolve for winging-specific usage.

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Velocicraptor said..

I've only gotten 3 sessions on the board and I'm still figuring it out. There are situations where these narrower faster boards clearly excel (cleaner conditions, lightwind), but there are also limitations.

Very true! Same for me.

I've had a few sessions with the Gong rubber canoe (Hipe Cruzader 7'11) and a Duotone Slick v1 6.5m.
I can definitely get up on foil easier than on my 105l X-Winger board, so that's great.

There are two main difficulties for now. First of all, the board is pretty unstable when stationary. It's also so long, that doing a jibe when not on foil is pretty cumbersome. So you'll want to stay on foil as much as possible.

Another problem is that when doing a jibe in light wind, it's easy to run into the wing or run out of energy because of low speed. Learning the racing jibe should help with that.

I'm still learning this, but after a few sessions I'd say that this combination is definitely not for beginners. I recommend considering a dw board for light wind winging only after you can stay on foil and do foiling turns in light conditions comfortably on your normal gear.

If you are old as dirt, or tall like a giraffe, there is one flaw in the system.

You still need a big wing to help get to your feet. So forget about dreams of DW boards and 5 meter wings in light wind. Leave that combo to the young, the short... those who can still jump to their feet like bunny rabbits.

YOU still need an 8 meter in light wind.

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DWF said..
If you are old as dirt, or tall like a giraffe, there is one flaw in the system.

You still need a big wing to help get to your feet. So forget about dreams of DW boards and 5 meter wings in light wind. Leave that combo to the young, the short... those who can still jump to their feet like bunny rabbits.

YOU still need an 8 meter in light wind.

This is a good point. The wing doesn't just get you onto foil, it also provides some stability. While the power of a smaller wing will get you going on a more efficient board, the smaller wing also provides less stability. So if conditions are choppy or cross grained, you will still need power in the wing to give you stability. Im finding that being appropriately powered on these boards is important - its almost like they are more sensitive to being over/underpowered than a conventional board.

I was going in 10-12 knots on a 5m with an efficient board (would have needed a 7m with a conventional semi sinker board), but it was really smooth conditions. I would have needed the 7 for stability in tricky surface conditions (and I'd consider myself fairly nimble). I think riding a 3m in 15knots is very optimistic due to the stability needs (the board is probably efficient enough to get up with this setup though).

I think many people (myself included before I tried it) overestimate the stability of these boards. Mine is shorter and lower volume than a true DW board, so maybe a 7 footer would be different, but Im finding it quite tricky. When I'm properly powered, and the wind/wave direction aligns it pops up like nothing and it feels great on foil, but that equation doesn't always present itself.

For regular winging, I do not think I would be happy with the purchase of an expensive long board. I would rather be on something that has as little swing weight as possible. Lawn-mowing flat water for 1.5 hours on something that costs 2.000 EUR would add up to an unsatisfactory session overall. Add 2.400 EUR for a Duotone Ventis and, unless you are into racing, any doubts that you may be spending too much on your hobby would be completely dispelled. But that's just me.

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DWF said..
If you are old as dirt, or tall like a giraffe, there is one flaw in the system.

You still need a big wing to help get to your feet. So forget about dreams of DW boards and 5 meter wings in light wind. Leave that combo to the young, the short... those who can still jump to their feet like bunny rabbits.

YOU still need an 8 meter in light wind.

I'm using an Armstrong DW 7' 2" foil board with a 6 metre Slick and I'm up in 5 or 6 knots (knocks 2 to 3 knots off my normal wing board). I had an 8 metre but sold it -- big hassle when in wind lulls of zero. The six metre pumps so much better it makes up for the lack of size -- get to a gym and do chin ups and overhead pull downs for your lats -- that's where the pumping power comes from. How old am I? I saw the Beatles live in August 1966 when I was sixteen. You do the math.

Recently acquired a Gong Crusader 7'6"XL to pursue SUP foiling on soft waves at my local spot and dreaming of SUP DW.
92kgs and 58 years young. Was happy to find I could paddle it and am two wing sessions in. Wasn't totally sold on the idea of winging it but have found it to have been good fun when no one else around was able to get going on wings or windfoils.
My gybing is just OK not brilliant but I have found that the narrow board makes gybes easier because it doesn't slow down much if you touch down during the foot switch. Just cruises on and you pop it back on the foil, easy. Made me smile anyway.
Had a go at driving the nose into waves deliberately, board doesn't care just bounces off. for sure my normal wing board would have submarined. And catching swell is no different to the wing board except because its so narrow it can leaned over in the turn pretty radically and the rails are nowhere near touching.
So far so happy, and this is with Armstrong HS series foils 1550v2 and 1850.
Looking for the right high aspect foil to make the most of SUP foil and DW conditions but can't decide wetter to stay with Armstrong or look elsewhere.
For sure Gong are in the business of selling kit and they are very good at it. But having used it a few times I think it was a good addition to the rack and will get a lot of use.

I just got my first session in on a 7'6" Hipe Cruzader and it was magic. I was expecting light wind so I rigged a 6.0 and ended up being reasonably powered in winds that picked up to 14g21kts. The board took a couple reaches to get foot switches dialled coming from. 5'1" board. Takeoffs to a couple practices because the board skips the slogging stage where short boards have to get over their bow wave. I found all I needed to do in lulls was pump the wing and not the board otherwise my foil would take off too early and would stall. I was comfortable going closer in to shore and even venturing downwind knowing that if the wind backed off I would still likely be able to get on foil easily. I think this is my new go-to board for now. I am also excited by the prospect of getting to do paddle ups on calm days. What fFarnorth said about leaning it over was my experience too, I found this particularly the case going upwind.

I have built 2 boards for light winds. 7'10"x23".
Had one go and could stand up and paddle in flat water but was difficult to keep in a straight line paddling hard.
as a wing board got going very early, no board pumping required. I did feel as a wing board I could cut a foot of the back to make it better. Think it would be really difficult to paddle in open seas and total respect to the guys with the skills to do it. 6'6"x22".
pure light Wind wing board, really pleased with this one. Did not feel as floaty as size suggested. It accelerates really quickly, could pump the board a bit to help on foil. A little tippy, but nice width to sit on in lulls. the thing I have found is still need a gust to get on foil, 8knts. Still need a bit of wind to keep on foil, especially in gybes.
I love light wind wingfoil in the summer, it's made so much easier with the bigger DW style boards. When off foil can cruise, slog about without much stress. Plus easy to paddle back in if wind disappears completely.