Winging has now surpassed kitefoil as the ultimate light wind foiling discipline.

Alongside the investment in the long thin board I'm not sure how long this would keep me entertained . Maybe the thrill of taking off in light wind for 5 or 10 minutes but by 20 minutes I think I would be bored. Completely understand if perhaps you live inland but for me light wind and no waves is not for me.

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airsail said..
Winging has now surpassed kitefoil as the ultimate light wind foiling discipline.

It looks pretty slow and boring. Some kite foilers are ripping in those conditions:

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simonp65 said..

airsail said..
Winging has now surpassed kitefoil as the ultimate light wind foiling discipline.

It looks pretty slow and boring. Some kite foilers are ripping in those conditions:

But many wingers can't kitefoil

I've winged in super light wind, but I'm generally just launching in those conditions to then sail far offshore where the wind picks up into at least 10-12 and there are some bumps. As much as I loathe my 7m cwc it has unlocked those conditions for me. Agree that a session sub 8-10 knots would be pretty boring and I only do that when I'm getting skunked on a trip.

When it's been too long with no wind ,I feel like a guy picking cigarette buts out of an ashtray for one drag. I'll do anything for a fix.

While this is clearly a working concept and I myself was an early adopter of wingfoiling, I am afraid I'll switch to wait-and-see mode for this trend for various reasons:

1) developments in the market are following so fast. Today's concept may be outdated 6 months from now (although I think longer, narrow will stick.. but maybe the proportions will change e.g. to have more specialised LW wingfoil board (minus the DW feature)
2) the price point right now is too high. 2000-2500 eur for boards like this just to get into the 5-10 kts bracket, and then on top also needing a dedicated front wing and a 6/6+ m wing.
3) the thought of needing to carry a 2nd board around (much longer too), I find extremely unappealing. 'Traditional' wingfoil (10+ kts) ticks all the boxes for me in terms of transportation convenience. Unless DW would be my other go-to activity, then using the DW board for LW makes total sense.
4) windless days can be frustrating but are good for me to get other things done like mowing the lawn, taking care of things around the house, showing my face to my wife and kids haha. My wife knows that when it gets a little bit windy that I need to be out of the house. If I need to explain her that also when not windy I need to be gone too.. haha it won't be received well. Aside from this things should be (at least for me) a bit ying yang. The windy days WILL taste better if there are windless days too.
- and finally.. if we break into the 5-10kts, then what's next? We'll be itching to get foiling in even lower winds. Where will it stop?

Having said that .. with a price point of around 700-800 eur the inflatable Gong Hipe Cruzader Strapless does look interesting. It's cheap and packable (two counter arguments less). But then I haven't seen much videos of this inflatable version working as good as the DW hard board in light winds.

So: happy to watch this trend unfold and see what's next (and let competition in the marketplace do its thing first)

This is more what I think low wind winging should look like. Maybe not the lightest wind, but if you can pull off easy toe and heelside tacks, with the speed to make them happen without pumping like mad, then it's pretty cool. This is the Bear (95 kg) in lightish wind on an XL Sirus front wing. Pretty amazing how well he gets that big span wing to turn fairly tight. Required disclaimer: not a Gong fan boy but I do like their foils. Lots of frequent wind where I live so no need for me to pursue this,.but I do admire it
?feature=share

Great perspective here. He's trying to get into DW-ing as average middle-aged wingfoiler and discovers it's actually pretty hard (see the previous two videos on his attempts to flatwater paddle onto foil and get on foil on the bumps) In this video he reverts to LW winging as a slower/longer path to DW which initially focuses on getting to know the board.

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MProject04 said..
Great perspective here. He's trying to get into DW-ing as average middle-aged wingfoiler and discovers it's actually pretty hard (see the previous two videos on his attempts to flatwater paddle onto foil and get on foil on the bumps) In this video he reverts to LW winging as a slower/longer path to DW which initially focuses on getting to know the board.

I agree with his sentiments towards the end of the video. Jack of all trades: prone, SUP, LW Board, great beginner board (if you have some semblance of balance), DW board for when you are ready to send it after lots of practice. I've prone surfed, SUP surfed, Flat water paddled, hand paddled, LW wing, raced, and a few small DW attempts with mine. Definitely happy the DW board in my quiver!

i have to admit i think there is a LOT of Marketing BS going on for these DW boards...upselling the latest trend

They seem to be positioned / sold to people as "ok you are interested in DW paddle foiling, and want to wing in light winds - so this board can do both".....but how many people are actually doing or interested or capable in DW paddle foiling..i bet the reality is very few %, outside of instagram

Of course for light winds, these are for sure easier to paddle up with longer water length...But

(i) the board only gets you up a little doesnt it...its the MASSIVE foil that is being used that is working here? if you buy one of these boards you should also invest in a wing of 1.2m minimum right? So if you put a 1.3m foil on a 5'4 board, how much do you lose compared to the 7'6" board?

ii) i guess the "litmus test" could be -> "Q. Have you been to your local spot and conditions look great but you cannot get going on your kit (too light), and a somone on a DW board is ripping and you are missing out?" if the answer to this is "no" (as in my case) then what is the point of the 7'6 board when i could be riding my 5'4? if the answer is "yes", then for sure, look at your board / foil for your weight and size up accordingly

i think we will see these boards as specialist, dedicated light wind (so less than 12-15kts) options....but i dont see why you would want them in 12kts up or as a general purpose option - UNLESS im totally missing somehting?

From the F-one site

i know about 30 wingers....and i think 29 of us have 1 board!

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northy1 said..
i have to admit i think there is a LOT of Marketing BS going on for these DW boards...upselling the latest trend

They seem to be positioned / sold to people as "ok you are interested in DW paddle foiling, and want to wing in light winds - so this board can do both".....but how many people are actually doing or interested or capable in DW paddle foiling..i bet the reality is very few %, outside of instagram

Of course for light winds, these are for sure easier to paddle up with longer water length...But

(i) the board only gets you up a little doesnt it...its the MASSIVE foil that is being used that is working here? if you buy one of these boards you should also invest in a wing of 1.2m minimum right? So if you put a 1.3m foil on a 5'4 board, how much do you lose compared to the 7'6" board?

ii) i guess the "litmus test" could be -> "Q. Have you been to your local spot and conditions look great but you cannot get going on your kit (too light), and a somone on a DW board is ripping and you are missing out?" if the answer to this is "no" (as in my case) then what is the point of the 7'6 board when i could be riding my 5'4? if the answer is "yes", then for sure, look at your board / foil for your weight and size up accordingly

i think we will see these boards as specialist, dedicated light wind (so less than 12-15kts) options....but i dont see why you would want them in 12kts up or as a general purpose option - UNLESS im totally missing somehting?

I kind of agree, but I also think the market is learning a lot about board shapes through this evolutionary exercise. Ultimately I think some of the knowledge gained will be applied SPECIFICALLY to wingfoil boards rather than these compromised hybrids. There are a few companies starting to offer wing specific boards that share some of the features, and I think the evolution will continue from here. I don't think the lessons learned through this exercise are limited to sub 15 knot conditions. I bought a 5'7" board that shares these hull features and I will be using it for all of my unstrapped riding (count me as one of the wingers with more than one board).

Basically... its early. This isn't an evolutionary dead end.

Am I strange for not wanting a DW board because it won't fit in my car? I really love being able to stick all my wing gear in my e-Niro and drive off. I don't want another board I have to strap to the roof rack and worry about it being stolen when I stop to get a bite.

Here on Maui, I've met a few folks selling off their DW boards after giving it a try for a few months. They ended up not using it as much as they thought they would. We have enough good wind, and surf days. On those rare low wing/surf days, the yard finally gets mowed.

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northy1 said..
i have to admit i think there is a LOT of Marketing BS going on for these DW boards...upselling the latest trend

They seem to be positioned / sold to people as "ok you are interested in DW paddle foiling, and want to wing in light winds - so this board can do both".....but how many people are actually doing or interested or capable in DW paddle foiling..i bet the reality is very few %, outside of instagram

Of course for light winds, these are for sure easier to paddle up with longer water length...But

(i) the board only gets you up a little doesnt it...its the MASSIVE foil that is being used that is working here? if you buy one of these boards you should also invest in a wing of 1.2m minimum right? So if you put a 1.3m foil on a 5'4 board, how much do you lose compared to the 7'6" board?

ii) i guess the "litmus test" could be -> "Q. Have you been to your local spot and conditions look great but you cannot get going on your kit (too light), and a somone on a DW board is ripping and you are missing out?" if the answer to this is "no" (as in my case) then what is the point of the 7'6 board when i could be riding my 5'4? if the answer is "yes", then for sure, look at your board / foil for your weight and size up accordingly

i think we will see these boards as specialist, dedicated light wind (so less than 12-15kts) options....but i dont see why you would want them in 12kts up or as a general purpose option - UNLESS im totally missing somehting?

To your point (i): The DW board takes every bit of a small gust and transforms it into forward momentum and thus onto foil. When trying to lightwind wing on a standard board around your weight in liters, you need both a big hand wing and a big foil (or exceptional fitness/skill to make up for one of those factors) to somehow get on foil in a small gust. If you substitute the standard wing board for a DW style board in the same conditions you can either downsize hand wing size or foil wing size easily, sometimes both.
There is a drawback though. I have found that I can get on foil with too small of a front foil for the wind and end up having trouble staying upwind and keeping on foil in light winds, so I prefer to go for a medium-large to large foil for my weight (HA1125, HA1325 or MA1750 to my 65kgs) when out in really light wind, where the 925 can work, but it's a workout.

In my opinion, this DW board design is clearly cross pollinating with Wing board design and I bet in a season or two, almost all beginner boards and light wind boards will all be 22" wide or less and in the 6'3" to 7'6" range. It takes literally 1/4 the effort to get one of these boards on foil compared to the 32" wide table I learned on. If I was on a lake or not worried about high wind or strapped airs, I would sell my 60L.

When using the DW board in winds over 12knts, it really opens up the option of running a foil size down 1 or 2 notches over the normal selection, or same for hand wing. It really just feels like a cheat code. You also don't worry about falling when on the lower threshold of your gear, as it is easy to get back going.

The main downside to the DW board for winging is I'll be getting fat and lazy.but flat water SUP practice should help offset

For me wing foiling was originally about "sweating the assets". SUP foiling looked like a good thing to get into but it was totally useless without waves and good conditions. Along comes the wingding and suddenly you could ride your SUP foil board almost any time you liked.

Of course, once we got into wingdinging we found you didn't need a SUP sized board and the rest is history (...continuing).

Now downwind SUP boards look like a cool thing, but you can't do it without a shedload of wind and waves and a safe-ish bit of water, a car shuffle and some mates to go out with. But add in a wing and a little bit of wind and your downwind board becomes not such a niche thing.

When I originally started winging I had a specific spot in mind. I have kite surfed and foiled this spot for decades and it's awesome. But it's sheltered from the wind in one direction. The wind comes through in turbulent little blasts of about 20 knots. The idea was to hang out on a SUP foil board with a wing and use the puffs to get on the swells.

Imagine doing that on a relatively glassy day when there's a quarter decent swell coming through, and just enough wind to pop up on the foil and circulate through the zone. It might be a good booster to add to paddling in and pumping out and hoping you don't come off the foil.

Maybe we'll get some foils that make paddling up less of a party trick and that will take care of the no wind days too.

PS All of my boards from SUP on down fit nicely diagonally across the back seat of my car. It makes loading and unloading easy and my extra gear is safely stowed inside the car at the beach. It would take some convincing for me to have a niche board that had to go on the roof.

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Gorgo said..
For me wing foiling was originally about "sweating the assets". SUP foiling looked like a good thing to get into but it was totally useless without waves and good conditions. Along comes the wingding and suddenly you could ride your SUP foil board almost any time you liked.

Of course, once we got into wingdinging we found you didn't need a SUP sized board and the rest is history (...continuing).

Now downwind SUP boards look like a cool thing, but you can't do it without a shedload of wind and waves and a safe-ish bit of water, a car shuffle and some mates to go out with. But add in a wing and a little bit of wind and your downwind board becomes not such a niche thing.

When I originally started winging I had a specific spot in mind. I have kite surfed and foiled this spot for decades and it's awesome. But it's sheltered from the wind in one direction. The wind comes through in turbulent little blasts of about 20 knots. The idea was to hang out on a SUP foil board with a wing and use the puffs to get on the swells.

Imagine doing that on a relatively glassy day when there's a quarter decent swell coming through, and just enough wind to pop up on the foil and circulate through the zone. It might be a good booster to add to paddling in and pumping out and hoping you don't come off the foil.

Maybe we'll get some foils that make paddling up less of a party trick and that will take care of the no wind days too.

PS All of my boards from SUP on down fit nicely diagonally across the back seat of my car. It makes loading and unloading easy and my extra gear is safely stowed inside the car at the beach. It would take some convincing for me to have a niche board that had to go on the roof.

Yeah, I opted for the 6'3" over the next size up partially because I could fit it in the back of my car with the middle seat down. The mandatory roof ride is not ideal, although I did end up installing a Lockrack that is pretty legit at securing a board to the roof. Other reason for the shorter size was easier maneuvering with the wing. The longer size's water line made it more difficult to rotate the board in relation to the wind, although that is better for DW SUP.

The dedicated wing boards "influenced" by the DW design patterns do work for light wind wing foiling. This is my light wind combo - a custom Jimmy Lewis wing board - 6'2x20x90l and 1600 Mikeslab foil. With this set up and a 6m wing I can comfortably wing in 9-12 knots. If I put some effort to pumping I can pop in 8knot gusts. For reference I am 95kg.
I don't think you need long "pure" DW boards for winging. A roughly ~6 foot board should be enough depending on your height (I am 192cm) and weight.

Here's a deepl transaltion of what Patrice Gu?nol? wrote in his Gong Galaxy group yesterday:

How do you prioritise your purchases to gain low range?

When you come across my 22-minute video in 6nds, you normally think: hummm ok, but is he really having fun?

Then you spend another session at the limit of flying, not flying, flying, not flying... and then the big question comes up: what do I need to complete my quiver so that I can be sure of enjoying myself below 12nds?

You'll need :

- A wing in the 5m2 range for light sailors and a maximum of 6m2 for strong sailors. You've already got it: yew!!! Any bigger and you're going to have a hard time pumping without wind. You need a lively wing, not a tractor.

- A Cruzader because the narrowness of this board concept will give you the speed you need to activate the foil before flying without requiring a lot of energy. It will glide through the water instead of pushing it and then climbing on top of it like a conventional board.

- A giant foil whose huge ratio won't give you much more surface area, but it will make it terribly efficient at optimising the little real wind in apparent wind. And yes, at 12 knots, you have a real feeling of the wind in your wing, even if there are 6 knots of real wind. And that's exhilarating.

So when you're hesitating about buying everything at once, here's my advice:

The contribution of the giant front wing (over 120cm) and that of the Cruzader are identical.

So if you need 12 knots of wind to be fine with your usual gear, you'll go down to 8/9 knots with one of these options.

Then you'll gain the same amount by adding these options together, to fly at around 6/7 knots.

Below 6/7 knots it's an intense physical and technical challenge.

Note that when we talk about gaining the same amount, we're talking in terms of percentage of optimised wind. There's the same difference between 9 and 12 knots as between 6 and 8 knots.

As a result, the Cruzader is a smaller investment and really makes things easier. And that's what you're going to appreciate, over and above the feat of flying in extreme light wind: making life easier below 15 knots.

Flying again in a snap of the wing is a REAL comfort. The sessions are so much more profitable. You fall: no big deal, because you know you'll fly easily. So you try, so you make progress, so you have fun. And if the wind drops, you come in quietly, like an old-fashioned windsurfer.

The giant front wing will give the same performance gains. Under a classic board in 8/9 knots you'll fly easily. The pumping will be less on the glide than with a Cruz: you'll be trying to lift the board and hit the water with the nose to bounce back, instead of sliding and launching the foil.

I'll keep this session in mind with 6/8 knots of soft air. Titouan was flying a Lethal + 3.5m2 + Sirus 156, while Fabien was not flying a Cruzader + 5m2 + Ypra L.

So the front wing is crucial, and that's the revolution we're proposing: to have front wings with huge ratios for gliding and generating as much apparent wind as possible, so that you have as much in your arms as you do in 15 knots ++ when there are 6/8 knots. The feeling is insane: to glide so easily in an almost invisible wind, it's crazy. I remember sessions when I was flying and trying to work out where the wind was coming from. It's shocking, a paradigm shift.

So what to choose? Everything of course ;-)

But if you have to prioritise, try to find out if it's the very gentle glide over the water that attracts you, rather than the light wind record and the physical effort. Then you'll have to go for a nice Cruzader first.

Otherwise, a giant foil will do the trick. You'll have to pull yourself up harder when pumping, but you'll be flying very early and with an amazing apparent wind.

Have fun!!!

It's winter here is Sydney and we get allot of marginal days 8-12knots and patchy just not enough for normal wing boards and a 6m but the surf is still pumping.

I decided a couple of months ago to buy the Armstrong 7 2 107L DW board for light wind winging , sup foil and maybe try paddle down winding. I have 60 hours winging so far and 8- 12 knot days are now super fun on near glassy waves. I don't need to ride anything bigger than my 5m so on that basis alone not needing to replace my 6m covers 2/3 of the board outlay.

This is the future of light wind winging if you are considering a 7 or 8m just forget it and buy one of these DW boards instead. When you match the board with stiff mast and modern efficient foil ( I use MA1475 and 1000) with a new 5m tight canopy wing it's so efficient just bear away pump a few times and it launches. If you have waves or swell it's ridiculously easy to get on foil these DW boards just want to go.

The real benefit other than getting out more days is the safety margin you can gain. We have outer reefs 3km from our launch spot that can be like Fiji on their day but if the wind dies or you break a wing it's a very,very long paddle over deep sharky water or a long paddle and 5km walk. So we only go out there is good steady wind. Now I'm happy to go there is 8-12 knots worse case which happened recently it took me 20min to taxi back on the surface in wind under 5knots. Even in no wind you can paddle the board at 4-
6kph towing a wing. There are lots of places I can think of would benefit from this factor on light days.

So how about the downsides, well even though the board is very light 5.9Kg it does feel allot bigger in the turns but once I realised it won't turn like my 60L 4 11 board you chill into a more layback style less hectic everything slower. I'm used to riding windsurf, SUP surf and 9ft longboards so I really like this feel you can move your feet around. I think for anyone coming from kite surfing or who starting on wing this feel might be a challenge with no big board experience.

So now you want one but what to buy..so many choices?

Don't fuss too much and get what is available in your area.
Any of the Kalama Cuda style boards will work. The Armstrong are great but KT, Amos ,Gong and others look just as good. The important thing is to get the right size for your weight I'm 82kg and the 107L version is perfect if I was only going to wing with it maybe the 96L would be better but you loose a little on the early takeoffs with less waterline so it's a complex formula.

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MidAtlanticFoil said..

northy1 said..
i have to admit i think there is a LOT of Marketing BS going on for these DW boards...upselling the latest trend

They seem to be positioned / sold to people as "ok you are interested in DW paddle foiling, and want to wing in light winds - so this board can do both".....but how many people are actually doing or interested or capable in DW paddle foiling..i bet the reality is very few %, outside of instagram

Of course for light winds, these are for sure easier to paddle up with longer water length...But

(i) the board only gets you up a little doesnt it...its the MASSIVE foil that is being used that is working here? if you buy one of these boards you should also invest in a wing of 1.2m minimum right? So if you put a 1.3m foil on a 5'4 board, how much do you lose compared to the 7'6" board?

ii) i guess the "litmus test" could be -> "Q. Have you been to your local spot and conditions look great but you cannot get going on your kit (too light), and a somone on a DW board is ripping and you are missing out?" if the answer to this is "no" (as in my case) then what is the point of the 7'6 board when i could be riding my 5'4? if the answer is "yes", then for sure, look at your board / foil for your weight and size up accordingly

i think we will see these boards as specialist, dedicated light wind (so less than 12-15kts) options....but i dont see why you would want them in 12kts up or as a general purpose option - UNLESS im totally missing somehting?

To your point (i): The DW board takes every bit of a small gust and transforms it into forward momentum and thus onto foil. When trying to lightwind wing on a standard board around your weight in liters, you need both a big hand wing and a big foil (or exceptional fitness/skill to make up for one of those factors) to somehow get on foil in a small gust. If you substitute the standard wing board for a DW style board in the same conditions you can either downsize hand wing size or foil wing size easily, sometimes both.
There is a drawback though. I have found that I can get on foil with too small of a front foil for the wind and end up having trouble staying upwind and keeping on foil in light winds, so I prefer to go for a medium-large to large foil for my weight (HA1125, HA1325 or MA1750 to my 65kgs) when out in really light wind, where the 925 can work, but it's a workout.

In my opinion, this DW board design is clearly cross pollinating with Wing board design and I bet in a season or two, almost all beginner boards and light wind boards will all be 22" wide or less and in the 6'3" to 7'6" range. It takes literally 1/4 the effort to get one of these boards on foil compared to the 32" wide table I learned on. If I was on a lake or not worried about high wind or strapped airs, I would sell my 60L.

When using the DW board in winds over 12knts, it really opens up the option of running a foil size down 1 or 2 notches over the normal selection, or same for hand wing. It really just feels like a cheat code. You also don't worry about falling when on the lower threshold of your gear, as it is easy to get back going.

The main downside to the DW board for winging is I'll be getting fat and lazy.but flat water SUP practice should help offset

Thanks MidAtlanticFoil - good response. So if im not missing out on any sesssions on my 1m fro foil and 6m wing on a 5'4" faantic 95 litre board (90kg), then you reckon i could ditch the 6m and use a 5m as biggest in like for like - is that the attraction here (asuming i dont need to worry about foiling in less than 12kts)?

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northy1 said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..

northy1 said..
i have to admit i think there is a LOT of Marketing BS going on for these DW boards...upselling the latest trend

They seem to be positioned / sold to people as "ok you are interested in DW paddle foiling, and want to wing in light winds - so this board can do both".....but how many people are actually doing or interested or capable in DW paddle foiling..i bet the reality is very few %, outside of instagram

Of course for light winds, these are for sure easier to paddle up with longer water length...But

(i) the board only gets you up a little doesnt it...its the MASSIVE foil that is being used that is working here? if you buy one of these boards you should also invest in a wing of 1.2m minimum right? So if you put a 1.3m foil on a 5'4 board, how much do you lose compared to the 7'6" board?

ii) i guess the "litmus test" could be -> "Q. Have you been to your local spot and conditions look great but you cannot get going on your kit (too light), and a somone on a DW board is ripping and you are missing out?" if the answer to this is "no" (as in my case) then what is the point of the 7'6 board when i could be riding my 5'4? if the answer is "yes", then for sure, look at your board / foil for your weight and size up accordingly

i think we will see these boards as specialist, dedicated light wind (so less than 12-15kts) options....but i dont see why you would want them in 12kts up or as a general purpose option - UNLESS im totally missing somehting?

To your point (i): The DW board takes every bit of a small gust and transforms it into forward momentum and thus onto foil. When trying to lightwind wing on a standard board around your weight in liters, you need both a big hand wing and a big foil (or exceptional fitness/skill to make up for one of those factors) to somehow get on foil in a small gust. If you substitute the standard wing board for a DW style board in the same conditions you can either downsize hand wing size or foil wing size easily, sometimes both.
There is a drawback though. I have found that I can get on foil with too small of a front foil for the wind and end up having trouble staying upwind and keeping on foil in light winds, so I prefer to go for a medium-large to large foil for my weight (HA1125, HA1325 or MA1750 to my 65kgs) when out in really light wind, where the 925 can work, but it's a workout.

In my opinion, this DW board design is clearly cross pollinating with Wing board design and I bet in a season or two, almost all beginner boards and light wind boards will all be 22" wide or less and in the 6'3" to 7'6" range. It takes literally 1/4 the effort to get one of these boards on foil compared to the 32" wide table I learned on. If I was on a lake or not worried about high wind or strapped airs, I would sell my 60L.

When using the DW board in winds over 12knts, it really opens up the option of running a foil size down 1 or 2 notches over the normal selection, or same for hand wing. It really just feels like a cheat code. You also don't worry about falling when on the lower threshold of your gear, as it is easy to get back going.

The main downside to the DW board for winging is I'll be getting fat and lazy.but flat water SUP practice should help offset

Thanks MidAtlanticFoil - good response. So if im not missing out on any sesssions on my 1m fro foil and 6m wing on a 5'4" faantic 95 litre board (90kg), then you reckon i could ditch the 6m and use a 5m as biggest in like for like - is that the attraction here (asuming i dont need to worry about foiling in less than 12kts)?

Yeah, like KB7 mentioned, if you need to replace an old 6M, consider getting a DW style board instead. Sounds like you are set with your gear as is otherwise!

I have the Armstrong 7' 2" DW SUP foil board -- game changer for me! I use it with the Sab 1350 front foil and I'm up in 5 to 6 knots with a 6.5 metre wing -- I'/m going to try a 6 metre (71 kilos). I used to use a 95 litre board and an 8 metre wing for light winds and I could get going in around 8 knots but the 8 metre was a huge hassle to manage. Where I am I have to head downwind to avoid a weed bed so getting back requires some unwind skill -- the big HA foil helps and if the wind dies completely the DW board is so much easier to slog home.

I'm looking at 5 or 6 light wind days to every good wind day -- you can only cut the lawn so many times!

I love foiling so I'm going to make the best of the time I have left foiling as much as I can.

The people who live in windy areas are fortunate. The rest of us have to grab at the scraps so our needs are different.

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KB7 said..
It's winter here is Sydney and we get allot of marginal days 8-12knots and patchy just not enough for normal wing boards and a 6m but the surf is still pumping.

I decided a couple of months ago to buy the Armstrong 7 2 107L DW board for light wind winging , sup foil and maybe try paddle down winding. I have 60 hours winging so far and 8- 12 knot days are now super fun on near glassy waves. I don't need to ride anything bigger than my 5m so on that basis alone not needing to replace my 6m covers 2/3 of the board outlay.

This is the future of light wind winging if you are considering a 7 or 8m just forget it and buy one of these DW boards instead. When you match the board with stiff mast and modern efficient foil ( I use MA1475 and 1000) with a new 5m tight canopy wing it's so efficient just bear away pump a few times and it launches. If you have waves or swell it's ridiculously easy to get on foil these DW boards just want to go.

The real benefit other than getting out more days is the safety margin you can gain. We have outer reefs 3km from our launch spot that can be like Fiji on their day but if the wind dies or you break a wing it's a very,very long paddle over deep sharky water or a long paddle and 5km walk. So we only go out there is good steady wind. Now I'm happy to go there is 8-12 knots worse case which happened recently it took me 20min to taxi back on the surface in wind under 5knots. Even in no wind you can paddle the board at 4-
6kph towing a wing. There are lots of places I can think of would benefit from this factor on light days.

So how about the downsides, well even though the board is very light 5.9Kg it does feel allot bigger in the turns but once I realised it won't turn like my 60L 4 11 board you chill into a more layback style less hectic everything slower. I'm used to riding windsurf, SUP surf and 9ft longboards so I really like this feel you can move your feet around. I think for anyone coming from kite surfing or who starting on wing this feel might be a challenge with no big board experience.

So now you want one but what to buy..so many choices?

Don't fuss too much and get what is available in your area.
Any of the Kalama Cuda style boards will work. The Armstrong are great but KT, Amos ,Gong and others look just as good. The important thing is to get the right size for your weight I'm 82kg and the 107L version is perfect if I was only going to wing with it maybe the 96L would be better but you loose a little on the early takeoffs with less waterline so it's a complex formula.

Great points ! Especially given that a new 7 or 8m wing costs about the same (or 75%) as the board

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KB7 said..

Don't fuss too much and get what is available in your area.
Any of the Kalama Cuda style boards will work. The Armstrong are great but KT, Amos ,Gong and others look just as good. The important thing is to get the right size for your weight I'm 82kg and the 107L version is perfect if I was only going to wing with it maybe the 96L would be better but you loose a little on the early takeoffs with less waterline so it's a complex formula.

Like many others I am also toying with this idea. For exactly the reasons you outlined, it makes sense to me (including the cost argument). Space in the car is not an issue for me, so that argument is not relevant.

I am in two minds about the size, so your last statement was most relevant to me. I am also 82 kg and will use it for mostly light wind winging (also have a 1475 MA like you) and plan on using a 5.3m2 wing as my largest wing this season). And the some SUP and experiment with DW,

I am in two minds about the 97L or 107L size. Given what you know now, would you go 20 or 30 L above body weight for the use case you outlined?

Arthur .if you have any serious plans to Sup foil or DW paddle then go with the 107L at our weight its the right compromise for everything, I think the weight recommendations on the Armstrong site are over optimistic for most people. Unless you are a super skilled and athletic SUP surfer no way can you go 96L. If paddle DW was your top priority I would then say go with the 121L to make it easier.

I've been sup surfing for 13 years on small boards so bear this in mind. In flat water it took me 3 goes to learn to paddle this 107L DW board straight continuously in surf stance with the 1475, it's surprising stable. However once you add some rip and current and surface bump it gets much harder I have no illusion about how hard it's going to be trying to learn DW paddle in windy confused sea states. So because I don't enjoy suffering I'm practicing learning to read bumps doing upwind downwind runs in 25-30knots with a very small wing which is great fun.

Once I get really confident SUPfoiling I hope to put the two skill sets together and save 90% of the DW paddle learning curve. (thats the plan anyway)

PM me if you live near the Nulla you have a go on my rig to be sure.

Here are a couple of typical 8-12kt days I'm the only one out. I'm not trying the chase super light under 8 knot days we are lucky here 200 plus days wingfoiling a year as it is.

Thanks mate - that's great advice. This helps me to make a decision.

I'm not to far down the coast from you. Will look you up if I am ever in your part of the world.

What length do people feel reduces the ability for the board to plain early and lift in light wind? Is there a cut off in people's experience?

Or is it the reduced width that has the real benefit?

+1 to the question above. I ha ve been thinking about the same, would a 85L 6' x 19" DW style board do the trick for a 80kg winger as an alround board with better waterspeed before foiling and also much better carving due to being narrower than "normal' 85L board? Haven't seen anyone answering this one?

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omg said..
+1 to the question above. I ha ve been thinking about the same, would a 85L 6' x 19" DW style board do the trick for a 80kg winger as an alround board with better waterspeed before foiling and also much better carving due to being narrower than "normal' 85L board? Haven't seen anyone answering this one?

Can't tell you (yet) but surely hope so.
I'll get the "baby dragon" 88L (6.6x18) at some point soonish and intend to use it primarily for light wind winging @75kg...