Today decided to get onto more open water in the right wind direction. Blowing N & NE at 15 to 25knots. This is my second try with a large wing foil.
Was hoping to be able to go up wind and also not to hit shallow water as I did last time in a lagoon that had shallow sections.
Well I still found it difficult to go up wind. I had to start going cross wind backhanded & struggled just going cross wind & found myself actually going downwind as well. I didn't even dare trying to get up on the foil when full concentration was trying to steer & hold the wind wing in place to stop that frustrating lower wing tip hitting the water & inverting the wing for me to trip over it & taking a dive. Ha!
So finally made the turn to head back to shore in my comfortable stance & found myself being able go slightly up wind but slowed down heaps the more I went upwind so had to go back to cross wind or downwind slightly to gain my speed back. By this time My foil bottomed out near the downwind shoreline so had to drop the sailing, kneel back down on my board, unstrap my paddle from my Naish wing & paddle back upwind 100 metres back to my launch point & then decided another 100 metres upwind so that I could get a longer run for practice. I was fatigued at this time due to a 4 hour surf foiling session the day before. Lol.
On this next run I had a half hearted attempt at pumping the foilboard off the water but it didn't clear the water & I could feel my speed pick up a bit. But again I struggled with not only the wing but also the 1 foot wind chop.
I turned again to sail back in normal stance & got some good speed but no lift due to not trying enough & focussing more on my balance & wingsail control. But this time I found the wing behaving itself more as it seemed more over head with my lower hand controlling the wind power by pulling or releasing the tail of the wingsail.
Again I finally ended up downwind & had to paddle back & called it a day almost totally fatigued in shoulders & back from just paddling.
My verdict so far:-
Holding the Wingsurfer was fairly easy to my arms & shoulders.

I found it easy to leave the wingsurfer sail in the water as I stood up on my board. Then pulled in the wingsurfer sail to me by its leash to start off sailing. Just as easy as a kneeling start with wing sail in hand.

Lucky I had my paddle strapped to the wingsail. Otherwise it would have been twice as hard & slow to paddle upwind. Good luck to anyone who gets blown away from shore without one! Call the Coastguard!

The inverting of the windwing with lower wing tip sinking in the water is soooo frustrating even when holding your front arm straight. But in time I believe this will happen much less as I started to find out.

Well as I found out. For the average foilsurfer & SUPer without sail or kite experience. Don't expect to sail upwind straight away. Don't expect to get up on the foil straight away either.

I think the best & quickest way to learn this is to have a good long run downwind about 1 kilometer or more with a mate in a boat to pick you up & drive you back up wind again if you haven't picked up the foiling & or upwind sailing. Good luck! Lol.

Planning on my next session to paddle my Foilsup upwind about 4 kilometers before the wind picks up. Then meeting up with my wife & daughter at a spot they usually go for their daily walk, grabbing the wingsurfer from her car, pumping it up. The sail downwind back to where my car is parked. Hopefully then I will get this thing mastered. Love the challenge.

The learning curve is steeper than I figured ... humbling indeed!

A couple things of note:

1) it doesn't sound like you're up on the foil yet? If not, you'll be surprised when you do ... it suddenly all comes together, you go fast and the wing feels light. But getting up on foil as a beginner is the challenge. If you are planing fast enough, it'll just happen -- so you want maximum lift you can get, biggest wing and mast as far forward as possible. Once you (we) get good, there are tricks to pump and get up sooner and in lighter wind -- until then we have to over power the "stickiness" of the board surface.

2) if you are dipping your wing tip, you are likely holding it too far forward, versus more over head. I believe a beginner mistake is to hold it like a windsurfer (forward) ... it is best positioned over your head, with an angle forward ... more or less 45 degrees. Once up on foil, this becomes really obvious, as it is more over head, pulling you more up than forward ... I suspect it is more like parasailing or hang gliding than windsurfing.

I know all about that downwind walk of shame -- of 6 attempts, I've had 2 good ones where I stayed upwind, and the others were the long walk back. Some failures due to gear (strut not pumped up hard enough, lost battens). But mostly due to wind not being strong enough. 15kt is enough for 5m once good, but until then, I figure 20kt is what you want.

Best to get dropped off upwind, then picked up downwind, if you can arrange it. If you don't have a paddle, then arm paddling the sup with the wing dragging behind you is a good workout for your arms, which I am pretty sure I can benefit from.

Thanks guys. This is the best thread I've read on wing foiling.
I've had one for a couple of months but here in the West we are still waiting for the consistent sea breeze of summer.
I can empathise with your experience as mine is very similar - expectations high, reality of experience low??. Great to hear that I'm not the only one who is taking a while for things to 'click'.
Please keep the updates coming. ??

Thanks Juandesooka. Come to think of it. Yes, when I was in normal stance on my last run when the sail was behaving itself I remember now that it was back & over head more like a hang glider. I will have to remember that. It also seemed to be a little easier to turn upwind that way too. So once I have that out of the equation I think I can relax more on fighting the wing & concentrating more on pumping the foil up.
I nearly attached my camera to the front of the board before I went out. But glad I didn't. Would've been a boring video or a comedy.
Cheers & thanks for the tip.

Another tip that came to mind...I noticed it is like windsurfing when not on foil. If wing held out in front you go downwind. If held back, kinda behind you, then you pinch upwind.

When up on foil you will find arms are more relaxed distance from you too...don't need to have your arms extended. At least that was it for me

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ausiet said..
Thanks guys. This is the best thread I've read on wing foiling.
I've had one for a couple of months but here in the West we are still waiting for the consistent sea breeze of summer.
I can empathise with your experience as mine is very similar - expectations high, reality of experience low??. Great to hear that I'm not the only one who is taking a while for things to 'click'.
Please keep the updates coming. ??

Join the club ausiet! This was the first time I got in the right wind conditions like Summer so jumped at the chance.
I noticed on my back hand run I was making some gains with the front arm bicep or elbow joint closer to my ear & not below my chin. Probably the same in normal stance too. Something I will keep in mind next session.

Damn! I'm looking out the window & wind is picking up from the right direction at 15 to 20 knots again & I'm at work!
Hangin for my next session.

What an ace, honest thread. Big respect to Seajuice (and everyone else).
Pretty sure most of us without windsurf/kiting experience go through exactly this. The thing I found hard was all this ending up downwind malarky does get better slowly, but made me reluctant to go out in stronger wind, which meant less time up on the foil. As Juandesooka said, once you are up on the foil, it all makes way more sense and improves. So counter intuitively, going out when its windier can be better, though probably not howling off shore...

Stick with it guys, it's amazing what a difference it makes in good consistent wind.
I have had a couple of reasonable goes before but it was marginal and hard to get foiling and stay up wind.

With a bit more wind it was so much easier and it all clicked today.
I did have a lot of kiting and SUP foiling experience previously though.






www.relive.cc/view/vmqX11oPYov

We learned to wing foil by doing downwinders so going upwind was not a concern. That way we could focus on getting comfortable flying the foil and handling the wing before trying to go upwind. You need to have an angle of at least about 45 degrees to the wind though, going straight downwind does not work. Practicing wing handling on land is really important and will make the first session much easier. We made this video with helpful tips:

Thanks heaps again Robert, Blueplanetsurf. Excellent tips & video. I was surprised at how much upwind the wings could go.
Can't wait to get on the water again to give it a go.
Good idea to attach the wrist leash to the ankle so I can paddle upwind a fair way next time for a good down wind run. I hope?

2nd go & No go & lost my GoPro!
Went out in my local lake again with NeilPryde large foil pushed all the way up towards the nose of board for best lift.
Paddled about 1 kilometer upwind close to shore where there was less wind & chop. Going was slow & it took me up to 30 to 35 minutes towing my wing barge. But was better having the wrist strap on my ankle when towing it.
After finally reaching my end point the wind was blowing a good 15 to 20 knots max. So turned around but somehow became unbalanced, fell in & knocked my go pro off its mount. I think it sunk to its watery grave due to still being attached to its 200mm aluminium extension adding the extra weight! Wasn't happy! Oh well it was getting old & had some signs of corrosion in the sockets.
Still found it difficult going upwind or crosswind on my backhand & knew I wasn't going fast enough to get the foil up.
Turned around in normal stance & got my speed up & tried to pump the foil up but to no avail. But I did feel it rise & speed up a little but at that moment everything seemed to slow down & I had to wait to speed up to try again. Obviously I will need a stronger wind or use my smaller lighter board that will make balancing more difficult. Or adding another wedge to point the foil wing up further for more lift and a washer on the tail wing.
Or. I NEED A BIGGER WING! Looks like I'll have to buy a NeilPryde XL foil wing.
One improvement was that the wind wing didn't invert itself due to keeping the wingsurfer pointing upwards & never less than 45 degrees. My front arm bicep was at my face mostly which will be good gauge for the right position on both forward & backhand stance.
Also when at top speed & pumping, the wing flew over head a bit more & was actually lifting up & feeling more comfortable. I found I could actually hang from the wing comfortably. Also I could go upwind more at the higher speed.
Thanks guys & Blueplanetsurf for the tips as the wing inverting on me was doing my head in on my previous last session.
Sorry no pics or video.

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Seajuice said..
2nd go & No go & lost my GoPro!
Went out in my local lake again with NeilPryde large foil pushed all the way up towards the nose of board for best lift.
Paddled about 1 kilometer upwind close to shore where there was less wind & chop. Going was slow & it took me up to 30 to 35 minutes towing my wing barge. But was better having the wrist strap on my ankle when towing it.
After finally reaching my end point the wind was blowing a good 15 to 20 knots max. So turned around but somehow became unbalanced, fell in & knocked my go pro off its mount. I think it sunk to its watery grave due to still being attached to its 200mm aluminium extension adding the extra weight! Wasn't happy! Oh well it was getting old & had some signs of corrosion in the sockets.
Still found it difficult going upwind or crosswind on my backhand & knew I wasn't going fast enough to get the foil up.
Turned around in normal stance & got my speed up & tried to pump the foil up but to no avail. But I did feel it rise & speed up a little but at that moment everything seemed to slow down & I had to wait to speed up to try again. Obviously I will need a stronger wind or use my smaller lighter board that will make balancing more difficult. Or adding another wedge to point the foil wing up further for more lift and a washer on the tail wing.
Or. I NEED A BIGGER WING! Looks like I'll have to buy a NeilPryde XL foil wing.
One improvement was that the wind wing didn't invert itself due to keeping the wingsurfer pointing upwards & never less than 45 degrees. My front arm bicep was at my face mostly which will be good gauge for the right position on both forward & backhand stance.
Also when at top speed & pumping, the wing flew over head a bit more & was actually lifting up & feeling more comfortable. I found I could actually hang from the wing comfortably. Also I could go upwind more at the higher speed.
Thanks guys & Blueplanetsurf for the tips as the wing inverting on me was doing my head in on my previous last session.
Sorry no pics or video.

What size is your foil wing .... I am currently running 2000cm2 with the 5m Duotone and 18/20 knots will get me going reasonably easily.
I am working hard to pump up onto the wing below that.

I just checked the speeds on one of my sessions and off the foil I typically average 3 to 4 knots. On the foil I am average about 8 to 10 knots. Not a lot of speed is required for the bigger wings.

Had my first go at trying to wing foil. Used the Ozone Wasp 4m, Jp Australia 7' foil SUp and Starboard Ocean Surf 2000.. was about 17-21kts... Plodded along for the first 10minutes working on controlling the wing and staying upwind. Once I felt comfortable enough with wing, I pumped the wing and the foil aggressively and presto... up and foiling. Once up the board felt very balanced as did the wing. Popping up I had my backhand on the last handle, however once up I moved it back one handle inwards to spill off some of the power. Bearing off on a broadreach felt easy enough and cranking upwind felt locked in just like windfoiling and kitefoiling.

Seajuice, I do think the NP XL foil wing will making popping up onto the foil easier and for sure recommend you getting. As you SUP foil, I am very confident that that it is just a matter of time before you put it all together... The tricky part I feel is when underpowered and trying to foil. There is definitely a technique to pumping the wing and the foil... You might want more of the 20-25kt days if just using the NP large wing on the first handful of attempts. Make sure back foot is not too far back when pumping board, and experiment with putting back hand on the last handle if you want max power when pumping. You mentioned you felt the board speed up and rise slightly and that means you were soooooo close to foiling. This is where pumping the wing and the board as the same time comes in... Keep at it and you will be foiling in no time.

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Seajuice said..
2nd go & No go & lost my GoPro!
Went out in my local lake again with NeilPryde large foil pushed all the way up towards the nose of board for best lift.
Paddled about 1 kilometer upwind close to shore where there was less wind & chop. Going was slow & it took me up to 30 to 35 minutes towing my wing barge. But was better having the wrist strap on my ankle when towing it.
After finally reaching my end point the wind was blowing a good 15 to 20 knots max. So turned around but somehow became unbalanced, fell in & knocked my go pro off its mount. I think it sunk to its watery grave due to still being attached to its 200mm aluminium extension adding the extra weight! Wasn't happy! Oh well it was getting old & had some signs of corrosion in the sockets.
Still found it difficult going upwind or crosswind on my backhand & knew I wasn't going fast enough to get the foil up.
Turned around in normal stance & got my speed up & tried to pump the foil up but to no avail. But I did feel it rise & speed up a little but at that moment everything seemed to slow down & I had to wait to speed up to try again. Obviously I will need a stronger wind or use my smaller lighter board that will make balancing more difficult. Or adding another wedge to point the foil wing up further for more lift and a washer on the tail wing.
Or. I NEED A BIGGER WING! Looks like I'll have to buy a NeilPryde XL foil wing.
One improvement was that the wind wing didn't invert itself due to keeping the wingsurfer pointing upwards & never less than 45 degrees. My front arm bicep was at my face mostly which will be good gauge for the right position on both forward & backhand stance.
Also when at top speed & pumping, the wing flew over head a bit more & was actually lifting up & feeling more comfortable. I found I could actually hang from the wing comfortably. Also I could go upwind more at the higher speed.
Thanks guys & Blueplanetsurf for the tips as the wing inverting on me was doing my head in on my previous last session.
Sorry no pics or video.

Yeah great advise from IWB agree with all of that , just like to add:- Forget the camera it's a major distraction , plus when you get going you will tear it off with your body when you over foil. One other point find a place in a river where the wind is against tide , this heaps enormously , it loads the foil and helps you up plus you don't get blown away while floundering around. Talk to kiters or windsurfers and make sure you are in a good spot for sailing , just because it's windy doesn't mean it good for sailing . You want somewhere with good consistent wind not gusty or wind with holes in it ripping over top of building or tress. Perfect scenario is in a river flowing North to South in a Southerly blowing straight down the guts or visa versa in a Northerly.

Thanks guys. Appreciate your replies & tips. So far I have payed for my lotto ticket to buy the NeilPryde XLWing & a Sunova Creek paddleboard. Haaa!
But in the mean time I am planning on getting my JP 6ft 8" light foil board out in a 20 knot wind to see if I can get that up & running without a camera attatched
A mate of mine is keen on doing a down wind section on our lake so should give me plenty of practice over a long distance. But not sure when the wind & time off work will allow.
Piros. Yeah, the tide current running north to north east in to my lake with the wind heading south, southwest could do the trick. So just have to wait for a southerly to hit when the tide runs out.

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Seajuice said..

Piros. Yeah, the tide current running north to north east in to my lake with the wind heading south, southwest could do the trick. So just have to wait for a southerly to hit when the tide runs out.

Changing what I said. One glass too many of red.
Piros. Yeah, the tide current running north to south at my lake inner entrance with the wind from south, southwest could do the trick. So just have to wait for a southerly to hit when the tide runs out.

Many sessions later, still struggling to get on foil with Naish 4m wingsurfer, NP large, moderate wind. 2 hours yesterday on the water, all sailing, no foiling. Having difficultly getting significant progress upwind not on foil, and don't want to go DW and have to walk back to launch point. Is it necessary to bear off the wind to get the necessary speed to get on foil? I have lots of high-performance dinghy sailing skills, moderate windsurf skills, surf and SUP skills, and plenty of foil experience behind boats. Max speed attained yesterday was 7.2 knots, not quite fast enough for lift I guess. Also should mention fresh water - less dense - so same wing has less lift as in salt water, but that should be the subject of another thread.





Red arrow indicates wind direction.
water temp in the 50's F.
Getting so close, any tips?

Frustrating! I know all about that. What wind speed? Are you pumping the wing and pumping the board?

If your track is right it looks like you are going side to the wind or up wind, which will slow you down, seems to me you may need to Bear a little downwind to gain speed, though with the cost of ending up downwind as you say.

depending on wind speed, you may also be butting up against the limitations of the gear. Sadly these Wings are not light wind vehicles. I would think a 4-meter wing will only start working well at 20 knots.as well, you want as large a foil as you can get, I am using the slingshot 84, 2000cm2 with the mast as far forward as it goes, and it's still sticky unless the wind is high.

personally I am planning to buy a 7 wing, or one of the five or six metre wings from the brands that are reputed to be more powerful. For me at the moment it's all about low end

I feel your frustration FoilColorado.
I had another session today but this time changed from a heavy board to my light 6ft 8" JP foilboard with the same Neilpryde large foil set all the way forward in track mount with a 6mm wedge.
Wind was blowing easy 15 to 20 knots and still no lift!
I gave the board & wing a few pumps but everything seems to lose power after about 3 pumps. That is the windwing seems to lose power for me to pull on it at the time when the board has reached its fastest speed?
The positives this time was that the lighter board would go upwind quicker & easier. The other is I am getting more confident in pulling on the windwing & finding it pulls up above my head more & seems to be more steady & floaty like a parachute but not enough when needed.
I've come to the conclusion that I will need an extra large wing which may help in better early lift & maybe in lighter winds.
The Neilpryde Large wing seems to be smaller in area compared to other large & extra large wings that are used with wind wings.
So looks like the early model sizes of Down Wind foils are the go.

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Seajuice said..
I feel your frustration FoilColorado.
I had another session today but this time changed from a heavy board to my light 6ft 8" JP foilboard with the same Neilpryde large foil set all the way forward in track mount with a 6mm wedge.
Wind was blowing easy 15 to 20 knots and still no lift!
I gave the board & wing a few pumps but everything seems to lose power after about 3 pumps. That is the windwing seems to lose power for me to pull on it at the time when the board has reached its fastest speed?
The positives this time was that the lighter board would go upwind quicker & easier. The other is I am getting more confident in pulling on the windwing & finding it pulls up above my head more & seems to be more steady & floaty like a parachute but not enough when needed.
I've come to the conclusion that I will need an extra large wing which may help in better early lift & maybe in lighter winds.
The Neilpryde Large wing seems to be smaller in area compared to other large & extra large wings that are used with wind wings.
So looks like the early model Down Wind foils are the go.

Seajuice... I do feel with your current gear and skill level, you will foil easily in winds 20-30kts. When u get your NP Xl foil wing, and you have refined your pumping technique with both wing and foil, will you be able to possibly foil in the 15-20kts. Saying that working on your non foiling skills in 15-20kts is still very beneficial.

My most recent session on the Ozone Wasp 4m and Starboard Ocean 2000 in winds 17-25kts (strongest winds yet) I actually depowered the foil as plenty of lift was being generated. 3 foil sessions now and each time I feel my comfort level and skills getting better.

Thanks IWB.
My next sessions will always be on the JP 6ft 8" as its lightness & speed will give me the best chance. It's quite stable whilst moving too.
Another change will be to add washers to tail wing for better lift.
And last thing, to fit an even thicker wedge between mast & board. But I have a feeling it could create drag & stop me achieving top end speed before lift.
In the mean time looking to get an XL Neilpryde wing at the right price.
Not many if any on sale. Will probably have to order & wait.

Starting to wonder if the NP XL wing actually exists. How long do we have to wait?

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Seajuice said..
Thanks IWB.
My next sessions will always be on the JP 6ft 8" as its lightness & speed will give me the best chance. It's quite stable whilst moving too.
Another change will be to add washers to tail wing for better lift.
And last thing, to fit an even thicker wedge between mast & board. But I have a feeling it could create drag & stop me achieving top end speed before lift.
In the mean time looking to get an XL Neilpryde wing at the right price.
Not many if any on sale. Will probably have to order & wait.

Ive been using the JP7' foilboard and it has been working great (no shims). Adding more lift by tilting the stabilizer wing with the added washer on your NP L foil stab, can help, but my guess at your current stage is that going out in stronger winds is going to be the answer. The stronger winds will reduce the fine technical pumping skills of both board and windwing needed when underpowered. I am pretty confident that when you get your NP XL foil wing you will be foiling in 20kts. NP prices on the glide wings has been very good so I don't think you will have a problem there. Cross the fingers they arrive this month. I wonder if NP will be looking at designing a XXL foil wing for the Glide foil...? Maybe Piros has some inside scoop on any new prototype wings ;) . Will see if I can try out the NP L foil this weekend as forecast is showing some 20-30kt winds. :) .

i read through this again, noted your first post Seajuice: "For the average foilsurfer & SUPer without sail or kite experience." Some thoughts on learning the wind.

I started kiting 8 years ago and since then have brought in another 10 or so people, mostly surfers crossing into wind sports for the first time. Much like myself, virtually all of them had a completely wrong sense of wind strength. When you're a surfer, it always seems too windy, but it turns out typical blown out conditions are usually only 6-8kts. Not even close to doable, even with a 17m kite. For my first few years kiting, I brought a wind meter to the beach, so I could connect my stoke-addled brain's wishes/hopes/desires with the on-scene reality. I still fall prey to this years later, when I really really want a session, the branches are moving, and I convince myself there's enough wind ... but rationally knowing there really isn't. Been there, done that, over and over ... get off the beach, fly for 15 seconds, swim the gear back.

Another factor: unless the online wind meter you are relying on is right at the beach you are at, it probably isn't trustworthy. There is a lot of local variation in wind speeds. It takes becoming a wind chaser to understand why all the kiters and windsurfers tend to congregate on specific beaches at specific times -- and it turns out it isn't because they love the company. Being both contrary and independent, it also has taken me a lot of personal failures to realize that following the path laid out by those before you is actually wise. :-)

So ... if you're a wind sports newbie, and struggling with the wing, it may also be worth taking some effort to confirm it is actually as windy as you think it is. Get a cheapie wind meter, that attach to your phone or the $10 ones online, measure before each session so you can connect your observations with reality, figure out the pattern. Go where the kiters and windsurfers are, when they are there, and when you see them succeeding, then you know there's enough wind -- and if they aren't going out yet, ask them why! If you only see kiters on foils and with big kites, it won't be enough for your wing (no matter how bad you want it to be enough). If you see very light occasional white caps here n there, that's probably 12kts or so ... not enough for a newb on a 5m wing, maybe once you're pro and learn the tricks, but not in the stage of needing a ton of power to get that board unstuck. When it's more like "wow it sure is windy", to the point you think maybe its too windy, and it's choppy to the point of barely able to stand on your sup ... that is more likely to be the wind level you need to comfortably and easily get up on the foil consistently with the wing.

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LouD said..
Starting to wonder if the NP XL wing actually exists. How long do we have to wait?

I heard December.

Thanks again guys. Thanks heaps for your details juandesooka.
The time I went yesterday was right as a southerly wind hit. I checked the wind records at that time it was blowing 15 to 26 knots. So I would say where I was it would have been around 20 knots.
The kiters were out as well.
You would be right about not enough wind. The stronger winds can be a bit intimidating but the confidence comes in quick.
I started kneeling on my small board but kept falling off when trying to get up whilst powered up. So just stood up on board holding the front of wing before powering up. So much easier to be in the right position on the board.
Will have to get a wind meter.

Went for a walk along my local lake shoreline. Wind was blowing NE around 20 to 25 knots.
I saw 2 guys on wind wings. One was a Wasp, the other a Naish.
The guy with the Wasp was learning by the look of it & on a SUP.
The guy with the Naish was on a foilboard & was up on the foil just after launch. So has given me knew hope & confidence that I may still get up & running when the wind hits 25 knots. First time I had seen someone local moving along at a good speed on a Windwing with foilboard. But didn't get a chance to find out what foilwing he was using. He didn't seem to get great height off the water surface so guessing a large.
Also good to see was that they showed an ideal shoreline that ran cross wind too. And the tide current obviously also. So hangin for my next session with extra washers on tailwing for my best chances of a lift off! Lol.

Having watched a few try today I am less interested.
I see the benefits as:
Low cost to add onto existing gear
Does not take up much space
Good to have as friends have one
Launch almost anywhere.
Negative:
Spectators general comment is it looks lame plus more offending comments
Need lots of wind ie 20kn plus
I just can not bring myself to get into it.
While a few struggled on wind wings I kite foiled on a 6m kite having fun.

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warwickl said..

I just can not bring myself to get into it.
While a few struggled on wind wings I kite foiled on a 6m kite having fun.

That's OK with me.

I'm bored by kiting, Been doing it since 1999. I'm putting all my kite gear up For Sale.

All wing dinging for me.

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warwickl said..
Negative:
Spectators general comment is it looks lame plus more offending comments.

Definitely true. However, I also thought kite foiling looked like lame lawn mowing until I actually tried it...
Despite their lame looks i'm keen to give it a try - looks like a fun addition to the kit.